Topping up UK pension whilst working and living as an Aus citizen

[Tjsmum]

Hi everyone,

i have been living in Australia for 10 years and have been trying to figure out what section I am classed as when it comes to paying into my UK pension.

I had applied as Class 2, then I got a casual job and was informed to pay Class 3, however I have seen online that I can still pay Class 2 even though I’m working?!

I am looking at paying the maximum of 6 years catch up, plus the yearly rate until I retire to go back home to the UK (2050).

I would be paying from my Aus bank via WU.

If  you are paying into your UK Pension what class do you pay? and how much? How long have you been away from the UK? How do you make your payments?

Thank you for your time, one very homesick Pom.

 

[Marisawright]

I'm so sorry to hear that you're so homesick.   Are there circumstances that prevent you heading home in the near future?  I ask because if you wait until retirement you can find that it's simply uneconomical to make the move, and then you'll be stuck.  

The difference between Class 3 and Class 2 is that Class 3 doesn't entitle you to unemployment benefits.   It makes no difference to the pension.  So you may as well pay the cheaper one. 

Western Union used to be an expensive way to pay.   For my six years catch-up payment, I used a bank cheque, but if you can transfer money straight into their bank account,  then I'd use Moneycorp or Transferwise.   They should send you a letter which will tell you what methods are acceptable. 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Marisawright

[Tjsmum]

Hi Mel 

Thank you for your response,

I am unable to return home at current because of custody issues with my First born, he is not old enough to legally decide he wants to come home with me, my husband and his younger sibling.

The other reason is because my children are too young, I believe that for them the best start to life is here in Aus where they were born, it is a mutual agreement between me and my husband that we would wait till retirement, where it’s only each other to worry about.

We have been home several times in my 10years of being away, and my hometown is not what it used to be.

Over populated, minimal green space, homelessness and poverty are rife, crime is high, minimal jobs, streets are filthy, shopping centres are pretty much deserted, some of my friends are too scared to go to certain parts of town because they fear getting mugged.

Its not somewhere I want to raise my children, where we are here in QLD, small country town, 30mins away from the city, it’s peaceful, clean, affordable, only 2 empty cafes because we already have 4 others! , job situation is similar to my hometown, crime is minimal, great education, the list goes on...

What home will be like in 30years, god knows! 

But I pray it’s going to be better than what it currently is! 

[Tjsmum]

28 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I'm so sorry to hear that you're so homesick.   Are there circumstances that prevent you heading home in the near future?  I ask because if you wait until retirement you can find that it's simply uneconomical to make the move, and then you'll be stuck.  

The difference between Class 3 and Class 2 is that Class 3 doesn't entitle you to unemployment benefits.   It makes no difference to the pension.  So you may as well pay the cheaper one. 

Western Union used to be an expensive way to pay.   For my six years catch-up payment, I used a bank cheque, but if you can transfer money straight into their bank account,  then I'd use Moneycorp or Transferwise.   They should send you a letter which will tell you what methods are acceptable. 

 

 

Thank you for the info regarding pension payments,

I have just checked my pension online and will aim at filling in the gaps.

 

[Marisawright]

52 minutes ago, Tjsmum said:

I am unable to return home at current because of custody issues with my First born, he is not old enough to legally decide he wants to come home with me, my husband and his younger sibling.

The other reason is because my children are too young, I believe that for them the best start to life is here in Aus where they were born

We have been home several times in my 10years of being away, and my hometown is not what it used to be.

So your firstborn has an Australian father (not your husband), who won't give permission for you to take him to the UK?  I'm sorry to hear that. 

I'm sure you know there are good and bad places in every country.  In country Australia there are many towns with major drug problems and high unemployment, too.  If you go back to the UK, you don't have to live in your home town.  

Edited December 17, 2019 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Tjsmum said:

it is a mutual agreement between me and my husband that we would wait till retirement, where it’s only each other to worry about.

In that case there are a few things to look at.   Thirty years is a long time, so the rules may have changed a lot by the time you get there, but here's the situation currently.

1. If you leave Australia before you are receiving the Australian government pension, you may not be able to claim it from overseas.  Even if you can, it could be at a reduced rate. 
2. If you leave Australia before you're able to claim your superannuation, the British taxman will take around a third of it in tax when you do claim it.
3. If your husband is Australian and doesn't currently have British citizenship, there's no guarantee he'll be able to get a visa to live in the UK.  Both Britain and Australia have been making it harder and harder for citizens to bring their spouses into the country for the last few years, so I dread to think how hard it will be by 2050. 

Realistically, if you're going to move then you need to do it in your fifties, when you still have time to work for another fifteen years and build up a British private pension.  

I think you'd be wise to get some financial advice from someone like Vista (who understand both the British and Australian systems) to work out how best to set up your finances.  For instance,  most Aussies would be told to salary sacrifice into their super funds to provide for their retirement but that's the last thing you'd want to do.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Marisawright

[Tjsmum]

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

So your firstborn has an Australian father (not your husband), who won't give permission for you to take him to the UK?  I'm sorry to hear that. 

I'm sure you know there are good and bad places in every country.  In country Australia there are many towns with major drug problems and high unemployment, too.  If you go back to the UK, you don't have to live in your home town.  

Both my sons have Australian father’s.

Sadly my firstborns father will not let me take him home to live permanently, he has after many court threats and all other manner of stressful threats, allowed me to take my eldest home for 3 visits.

I sure do!

There are both positives and negatives to both countries.

My sister is looking at moving up north (ENGLAND) because she agrees how terrible my hometown is, I like that idea, not actually moving back to my hometown but some place better, where it’s only a few hours drive to my parents place.

I don’t mean to come across as ungrateful, we have a blessed life here in Aus, it’s just too hot and it’s just not home, I feel out of place here.  

[Tjsmum]

14 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

In that case there are a few things to look at.   Thirty years is a long time, so the rules may have changed a lot by the time you get there, but here's the situation currently.

1. If you leave Australia before you are receiving the Australian government pension, you may not be able to claim it from overseas.  Even if you can, it could be at a reduced rate. 
2. If you leave Australia before you're able to claim your superannuation, the British taxman will take around a third of it in tax when you do claim it.
3. If your husband is Australian and doesn't currently have British citizenship, there's no guarantee he'll be able to get a visa to live in the UK.  Both Britain and Australia have been making it harder and harder for citizens to bring their spouses into the country for the last few years, so I dread to think how hard it will be by 2050. 

Realistically, if you're going to move then you need to do it in your fifties, when you still have time to work for another fifteen years and build up a British private pension.  

I think you'd be wise to get some financial advice from someone like Vista (who understand both the British and Australian systems) to work out how best to set up your finances.  For instance,  most Aussies would be told to salary sacrifice into their super funds to provide for their retirement but that's the last thing you'd want to do.

Thank you for the info  

 

I am aware of point 1 

I was not aware of point. 2 

Point 3 I was semi aware, we are trying to trace his ancestry at the moment as his father’s parents are of English decent. 

My sisters friend had married and English man 3 years ago and just registered their marriage and Boom she got an English passport just like that, 

I have read that my husband would have to go through the rigmarole I did to get citizenship here but for home,, as we are talking about 30 years from now, like you say it all may change. 

We have just entered into a mortgage, so If by miracle I could take my firstborn back home with us, i would be chained to Aus by my mortgage

I currently  salary sacrifice $20 per fortnight from my wages 

I’ll get into contact with Vista, regarding financial steps.   Thank you again for your help 

[Marisawright]

I’d say stop the salary sacrifice because the only benefit over ordinary investments is that it’s tax free when you retire in Australia. But if you retire in the UK it won’t be tax free so what’s the point

[Sloth]

HI

Have you read HMRC leaflet NI 38 and sent in a CF 83 application to pay class 2 contributions?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/social-security-abroad-ni38

We pay ours by chq from our UK bank a/c.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Sloth

[Tjsmum]

On 18/12/2019 at 10:17, Sloth said:

HI

Have you read HMRC leaflet NI 38 and sent in a CF 83 application to pay class 2 contributions?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/social-security-abroad-ni38

We pay ours by chq from our UK bank a/c.

Hi sloth 

Yes I did and I had filled out the form.

It took 4 months for them to get back to me.

I was confused because i was told when you are working you have to pay Class 3 yet they had approved me for class 2 they ended up telling me to re apply but for class 3.

I may just give them a call after Christmas and ask them if it’s supposed to be 2 or 3.

[Sloth]

18 hours ago, Tjsmum said:

I was confused because i was told when you are working you have to pay Class 3 yet they had approved me for class 2 they ended up telling me to re apply but for class 3.

I may just give them a call after Christmas and ask them if it’s supposed to be 2 or 3.

If you look at the first table on this page headed "Who can pay voluntary contributions", you either fall into the "living and working abroad" category, or "living abroad but not working" category.

If working, Class 2, if not, class 3.

If you've sent in a CF83 and received approval, pay class 2.

https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions