flag of convenience Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 So there should be no expectations of these people learning the norms before they migrate? Nobody learns all the norms with regards such issues. Brit's included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country vic Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 What happened about the beating of his wife.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 So where do you stop then? When do you start criminalising recent immigrants - when they stone adulterers? when they execute drug smugglers? when they cut the hands off thieves? when they assault children? Well for starters not when they give their kid a perhaps deserved slap. All a question of proportion. A severe beating would of course require intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 What happened about the beating of his wife.... That strikes me as rather common in most societies. Or husband bashing to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Pretty much common sense to my way of thinking. Many societies do not believe in sparing the rod in order to control their kids. Surely better in early days of arrival to point out what is and isn't admissible today. This is hardly new. I recall parents from Caribbean backgrounds complaining as much thirty odd years back, that their kids were going as they were as to an inability to discipline as in the Jamaican context. I do not care for the logic of your arguments there. Immigrants to the UK should be allowed to break British law. Why? 1 They do it in their own country. 2 It is unfair to expect them to respect British law as soon as they arrive. 3 We should allow them to continue to break British law for an unspecified time, until they can understand why they should NOT follow these practices. 4 We, ALLEGEDLY used to permit immigrants to do this in the past, i.e. a fallacy based on an appeal to tradition. 5 It is 'common sense' (Common sense is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things, which is shared by ("common to") nearly all people, and can be reasonably expected of nearly all people without any need for debate?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 So there should be no expectations of these people learning the norms before they migrate? I've just been reading about the British backpacker who broke Malaysian law and / or 'norms' by stripping naked whilst climbing a mountain. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3121098/Flanked-men-balaclavas-amid-fears-safety-British-backpacker-23-learn-fate-appears-Malaysian-court-accused-indecency-stripping-naked-sacred-mountain.html Would she have broken the law in the UK and/or offended against British 'norms?' If no, then should she have been given time by Malaysians to break their laws and norms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellybingobingo Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Is it illegal to smack your child now inn Britain ? Just asked my my son if it's illegal in Britain he said no not illegal but a very grey area ! It depends how it's done , because you have people saying I've punished my kid for something , but what was the punishment a smack on the hand or lobbing them down the stairs ! He said it's a very grey area ! Personally my I don't believe in smacking I got smacked with the belt and everything my sister left home I got pregnant my little sister in a care home and I haven't had anything do with my brother for well over 20 yrs ! And that's coming from a very strict child hood ! Obviously they've mallowed in the old age my parents but at the time I hated their gutts and it's only because they new no different in their days I suppose ! So no I don't agree anyway ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I do not care for the logic of your arguments there. Immigrants to the UK should be allowed to break British law. Why? 1 They do it in their own country. 2 It is unfair to expect them to respect British law as soon as they arrive. 3 We should allow them to continue to break British law for an unspecified time, until they can understand why they should NOT follow these practices. 4 We, ALLEGEDLY used to permit immigrants to do this in the past, i.e. a fallacy based on an appeal to tradition. 5 It is 'common sense' (Common sense is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things, which is shared by ("common to") nearly all people, and can be reasonably expected of nearly all people without any need for debate?) No I don't agree at all. The logic being fad laws which is what no smacking is about was long carried out in UK and likely still is in certain though depreciating circles around the realm. Many people are under the impression that they have a duty to discipline their children. Spare the rod and that sort of thing. The logic being newly arrived migrants from numerous lands will not be aware of such customs lust as generations of Britons would have frowned on such state intervention into the private lives of the family generations [previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Only to an extent, in all probability an unreasonable precedent would be challenged and reversed. Not necessarily. It would have to go to the court of appeal to be overruled. Agreements and contracts , including divorce settlements made under Sharia law and other legal systems are legally enforceable in England and Wales. This is what happens when the judiciary gets out of touch and parliament does nothing to rectify the situation which is why the UK is in such a mess. Australia has taken the view that they are not and that the law of the land is paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 No I don't agree at all. The logic being fad laws which is what no smacking is about was long carried out in UK and likely still is in certain though depreciating circles around the realm. Many people are under the impression that they have a duty to discipline their children. Spare the rod and that sort of thing. The logic being newly arrived migrants from numerous lands will not be aware of such customs lust as generations of Britons would have frowned on such state intervention into the private lives of the family generations [previously. There are many customs that are considered normal in other societies, yet considered both abhorrent and illegal in Britain. Child marriage, forced marriage, 'honour killings', female circumcision, for example. If people from another society have been practising such customs for centuries, they consider it to be normal. How do you propose to 'educate' them to end those practices once they are in the UK? We consider them to be crimes and they consider them to be 'normal' practice. And there are probably customs that we in Britain consider to be normal, that other societies see as, at best abnormal, and at worst crimes. I can't think of many countries, in fact, none at all, that operate a 'two-tiered' legal system. Under Sharia law, isn't the evidence of a woman considered to be half as important as that of a man? I suppose that is one example of a 'two-tiered' legal system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 There are many customs that are considered normal in other societies, yet considered both abhorrent and illegal in Britain. Child marriage, forced marriage, 'honour killings', female circumcision, for example. If people from another society have been practising such customs for centuries, they consider it to be normal. How do you propose to 'educate' them to end those practices once they are in the UK? We consider them to be crimes and they consider them to be 'normal' practice. And there are probably customs that we in Britain consider to be normal, that other societies see as, at best abnormal, and at worst crimes. I can't think of many countries, in fact, none at all, that operate a 'two-tiered' legal system. Under Sharia law, isn't the evidence of a woman considered to be half as important as that of a man? I suppose that is one example of a 'two-tiered' legal system? Let's not over dramatize things shall we? We are discussing the slapping of children. Not burning witches at the stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Let's not over dramatize things shall we? We are discussing the slapping of children. Not burning witches at the stake. How would you define 'a slap?' How would you measure the force of the slap? At what point would 'a slap' become 'a punch?' What if what constitutes a light slap for one child, causes actual wounding to another child? How do you know that a succession of slaps would not cause lasting psychological trauma to a child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 How would you define 'a slap?' How would you measure the force of the slap? At what point would 'a slap' become 'a punch?' What if what constitutes a light slap for one child, causes actual wounding to another child? How do you know that a succession of slaps would not cause lasting psychological trauma to a child? I would not describe a slap as beating a kid black and blue. Of course if injury is caused by the 'slap', it is not a slap but something criminal. I think we all know what a slap refers to. As I mentioned in an earlier piece, more than a little acceptable within the British system until rather recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 There are many customs that are considered normal in other societies, yet considered both abhorrent and illegal in Britain. Child marriage, forced marriage, 'honour killings', female circumcision, for example. If people from another society have been practising such customs for centuries, they consider it to be normal. How do you propose to 'educate' them to end those practices once they are in the UK? We consider them to be crimes and they consider them to be 'normal' practice. And there are probably customs that we in Britain consider to be normal, that other societies see as, at best abnormal, and at worst crimes. I can't think of many countries, in fact, none at all, that operate a 'two-tiered' legal system. Under Sharia law, isn't the evidence of a woman considered to be half as important as that of a man? I suppose that is one example of a 'two-tiered' legal system? Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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