grahamffc Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 One is plenty, any more and they'd just be repeating themselves. There is already a debate every Wednesday between the two main leaders, just watch that if you want more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Just a few points to make before I go to bed. Firstly to Thorn, sorry if I made an assumption about your imperviosity. It's just when you were so blatantly using stereotypes yourself it seemed odd that you would point the finger at me for doing so. It's like a person five stone over weight pointing to another obese person and calling them fat and lazy. Something that would naturally raise eyebrows. Britchix, thanks for admitting you weren't aware of the level of bias amongst the print media. It takes a certain strength of character to acknowledge we don't know something and you help prove my point in regard to the importance of these tv debates. Every day people read their papers not always realising they are reading an opinion paper rather than a news paper. Take this story about the debates. The telegraph reported 'Cameron stands up to the Broadcasters' painting him to be the victim standing up to the bullies. The guardian, a liberal paper, had the headline, broadcasters call Cameron bluff. Same story with demonstrably different slants to them depending on each papers particular allegiance. As most papers are owned and run by rich people, the majority support the tories, because quite frankly, the tory party is the party of the rich. Cameron knows this, so why appear in the TV debates. He gets all that support from the papers (the complete opposite of ed milibands position), and he also leads the best funded party thanks to all his rich friends, therefore can afford to spend three times what Labour can afford to spend on their election campaign (despite the fact the tories have a much smaller membership), the TV debates are just a risk he feels he doesn't have to take. It's too much exposure and under scrutiny he does not do well. On the other hand, ed miliband has been so scorned, mocked and vilified by the media, he only has to show up for his approval ratings to go up. The tory strategy of painting ed as some weak, incompetent Wallace look alike who can't even eat a bacon butty with panache, will only succeed if ed gets as little exposure as possible. Yes ed will be filmed out and about on the campaign trail, but that won't get a fraction of the viewers the TV debates will attract. So Cameron is desperately trying to scupper them. As for anyone who tries to tell you prime ministers questions is a debate, do not believe it for a second. The leader of the opposition asks questions of the prime minister, which the prime minister always fails to answer. It is all one way. The prime minister makes jibes at the leader of the opposition which he can't fully reply to due to the fact it is prime ministers question time not leader of the oppositions question time. A debate is only a debate when it's on a level footing. The TV debates will be, which is precisely why Cameron is trying his best to wriggle out of them. Scottish Stacey. I heard Natalie Bennett gave a good conference speech. All politicians have the occasional car crash interview. Like you, I felt for her greatly. It's good to know she dusted herself off and gave a good speech to her party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 It's only been since last year that I really realised how biased newspapers are to one side. It was good to see your list though because I didn't know all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Like I said to Britchix Stacey, not everyone is aware that what they are reading is propaganda. Newspapers do not have to abide by the same impartiality laws the tv media has to, though I've noticed the tv media read out paper headlines, perpetuating the myth that newspapers are neutral in their reporting. I think I first realised a bias when I was about twelve, during the minors strike. Our family read the mirror, my gran read the sun. The difference in the reporting was startling. peoples views are shaped by what they read in the papers. This is not a patronising statement as so many (usually tories who are more than happy for people to kid themselves their often tory supporting paper is not having any kind of influence on them) like to suggest. It's a fact. Companies spend millions on advertising because we are, all of us, open to suggestion. If everyday people read papers which are selling a particular narrative about the economy/country/immigration/trade unions/ etc etc, without the realisation that what they are reading is biased, then of coursw what they are reading informs their opinions. The reason the tories have been in power something like 100 years, compared to twenty five for labour, is not because they are the better party, it's because they are the richest party with the strongest media backing, a backing that has a huge influence on how people vote. I'm not saying it's the only influence, I'm just saying it's a major boon to the tories to have so much advertising they don't even have to pay for. In fact we pay for it ourselves when we buy our newspaper, and it's advertising we don't even realise we are being subjected to, making it doubly effective. With the growing advance of social media, newspaper readership is falling. This is shifting influence away from the rich and powerful and that can only be a good thing. Anyway I've stayed up much later than I should so I bid you all a good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrutineer Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Debates like this always go against the incumbent, but that's part of being PM. Cameron was a coward to back out but he can't let them go ahead without him so he'll have to u-turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrutineer Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Only one paper supports Labour. 12 support the conservatives. That is somewhat disingenuous as the Guardian, Observer, Mirror, Sun, Daily Mail, Times, FT, and Independent have at one time i recent history supported Labour, and many would again, especially the first three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 That is somewhat disingenuous as the Guardian, Observer, Mirror, Sun, Daily Mail, Times, FT, and Independent have at one time i recent history supported Labour, and many would again, especially the first three. Yes, they will support labour as long as they become tory lite as they did under Bliar so what use is that? They hate ed m because he's taken the party a smidge to the left. If he threatened to be really socialist they would up the anti even more. I would even expect the mirror, it's one loyal supporter to withdraw support. I thought you might find this link interesting. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/may/04/general-election-newspaper-support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackerjack Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Watch al, the way through if you have time, but if not, from about 17 minutes in they are talking about the media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fisheys Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Great news. If Labour win the election they will enshrine leadership debates in law. No future PM will be able to wriggle out of them or veto them, including of course Ed M himself. This is good news for democracy. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/07/ed-miliband-leaders-tv-debates-guarantee-law Rubbish, no Parliament can pass any law that binds future Parliaments to not be able to repeal them. Frankly if your understanding of our democratic processes is so shallow you should be ashamed. It's not "good for democracy," if Parliaments can pass permanent laws, otherwise, we would still be sending children up chimneys, and hanging them for stealing a loaf of bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fisheys Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Tony Blair's great success was to relegate democratic discussions to the level of a TV Game Show. He copied the USA, and Clintonised our democracy. Soundbite, soundbite, soundbite, then his Labour Government bankrupted the country, just like every Labour Government always does, the whole world over. Margaret Thatcher had it right when she said "the trouble with Socialists is that they always run out of other people's money." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamffc Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Another great statement from Miliband with the sole intention of winning votes and saving worrying about the fact it's not possible after the election. See tax avoidance and MP's second jobs too. I like to think the electorate aren't as stupid as labour assume they are but I'm not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamffc Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 It depends whether you want a leader based on ability or charisma. Blair certainly had the later, Brown the former, Miliband neither. I thought it funny that Cheryl Cole (can't remember her new name) said she had always been a Labour supporter but was considering dropping that as she said the mansion tax would "f*** me over when I already pay plenty of tax". People only like socialism while they are benefitting more than they are contributing, change that balance and the principles of 99% of people go out the window. Look at the reduction in housing benefit levy or 'bedroom tax' as it's misleadingly referred to. The people opposing it are hoarding property larger than they need denying others who have a much greater need, most of them will consider themselves socialists but their actions are in complete contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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