Abbot is flip-flopping slimy toad

[flag of convenience]

The problem is our main money earner industry is being over taxed, and can (and is) moving to cheaper locations. Our GDP can very easily drop.

 

The UK with population ~70million, and the US at ~300million, have better scope for making money than us. We are a tiny country, we should trying to be as debt free as possible.

Where the large populations can have a wide spread of industries, we don't. We are killing off the golden egg laying goose.

 

Borrowing to invest is fine, borrowing to just give it away isn't.

 

And with all this belt tightening I've seen no reduction in services. So I'd suggest they were not actually needed in the first place.

 

The only issue I've personally got, is they are not cutting enough. I believe government should be for the basic infrastructure, that's it.

 

So government should be nothing but managers and the Corporates allowed to dictate policy? What a nightmare. A country is far more than an economic factor thankfully and society is far removed from a spread sheet or a place where bean counters dictate policy.

[flag of convenience]

We've borrowed in the past when we've needed it. Doesn't mean we have to pay it off ASAP. Need to balance the needs of the tax payer against the needs of the budget. Because we are a small nation we have to preserve consumer confidence. The Australlan people HAVE to feel they have money to spend otherwise the economy will shrink putting jobs at risk. It's a balancing act but the govt is starting to make waves which could cause families to make cut backs fearing future problems.

 

Yes. Amazing the speed of decline. Seems only a few weeks ago we were in a boom. I wonder how the present talk can not set about a downturn in the economy? Surely folk will be more prone to cut consumption with talk of longer wait for pensions and the sudden decline in economic forecasts.

[flag of convenience]

Abbott is a pathetic fear monger nutter. He wants us to believe Oz is an economic basket case. Truth is our net government debt as a percentage of GDP is 11%. The UK is 87% and the USA is 82%.

 

A deliberate ploy. I expect the budget will not be as bad as suggested. That way folk will say something akin to, "Well not as bad as we were led to believe". Not unusual for a government to hit hard in its early days in power. That allows time to win back and bribe the electors pre next election.

[flag of convenience]

At least the migrants amongst us here have the options of jumping on a plane and returning to wherever we came from if all goes belly up ..

 

Dave C

 

In theory. Although the longer away the harder it is. I don't mean emotionally hard necessary but practical things, as some on this forum are finding in their desire to return.

[jasepom]

If you have work here you won't want to go anywhere. Protect your job with your life is my advice cause there's always someone behind you ready to take it from you.

[Paul1Perth]

The problem is our main money earner industry is being over taxed, and can (and is) moving to cheaper locations. Our GDP can very easily drop.

 

The UK with population ~70million, and the US at ~300million, have better scope for making money than us. We are a tiny country, we should trying to be as debt free as possible.

Where the large populations can have a wide spread of industries, we don't. We are killing off the golden egg laying goose.

 

Borrowing to invest is fine, borrowing to just give it away isn't.

 

And with all this belt tightening I've seen no reduction in services. So I'd suggest they were not actually needed in the first place.

 

The only issue I've personally got, is they are not cutting enough. I believe government should be for the basic infrastructure, that's it.

 

I'm presuming you are talking about mining being over taxed??? Wait till the annual profits are released and surprise, surprise, record profits again. Most made in Australia. Last year Rio and other big miners, BHP amongst them, were able to write off losses made in other countries against profits made in Aus to reduce their tax bill here. Shouldn't be allowed, the last government should have stuck by the name and nature of the super profits tax, Then everyone would have known who was making the super profits and why companies were having to pay them.

 

Sure, the miners have tried and are trying to move to cheaper locations, not with much success though. They try Africa, they have to have camps with guards to keep their workers safe. A change of government or other internal strife could mean that they have to abandon operations overnight. They've tried numerous countries and nowhere is as profitable as Aus.

[jasepom]

It's another big scare tactic that the mining tax is bad. These mining companies have been raping this country for too long. They make record profits often doing everything possible to reduce costs including sourcing overseas suppliers rather than local ones.

 

It's an astonishing example how the Australian public have been duped. They need to realise that this is our wealth the mining industries are using to offset their businesses.

 

They have to play fair. If the don't how can honest Australian expect to pay their tax share. Pay up or close them down, it's gone on for far too long.

[flag of convenience]

I'm presuming you are talking about mining being over taxed??? Wait till the annual profits are released and surprise, surprise, record profits again. Most made in Australia. Last year Rio and other big miners, BHP amongst them, were able to write off losses made in other countries against profits made in Aus to reduce their tax bill here. Shouldn't be allowed, the last government should have stuck by the name and nature of the super profits tax, Then everyone would have known who was making the super profits and why companies were having to pay them.

 

Sure, the miners have tried and are trying to move to cheaper locations, not with much success though. They try Africa, they have to have camps with guards to keep their workers safe. A change of government or other internal strife could mean that they have to abandon operations overnight. They've tried numerous countries and nowhere is as profitable as Aus.

 

The mining operators done a royal job on the previous government. Talk about Corporate interference in elected government and being politically subversive. Sadly it was the Australian people in the end that were shafted. Witness the alleged crisis with the economy at the moment. Right in the wake of what was perhaps the biggest boom in OZ history.

 

Begs the question what the government and its corporates will demand of it come a real crises?

[jasepom]

Yep because the mining companies didnt pay their tax we have to pay it for them. Good job everyone !!!! The only person to stand up to the miners was Kevin Rudd and look what happened to him. Hoisted out complete demolition job by the BHP back bench.

[flag of convenience]

It's another big scare tactic that the mining tax is bad. These mining companies have been raping this country for too long. They make record profits often doing everything possible to reduce costs including sourcing overseas suppliers rather than local ones.

 

It's an astonishing example how the Australian public have been duped. They need to realise that this is our wealth the mining industries are using to offset their businesses.

 

They have to play fair. If the don't how can honest Australian expect to pay their tax share. Pay up or close them down, it's gone on for far too long.

 

Sadly probably too late. If anything the Corporates will be demanding and likely getting a reduction in the rate of tax. It's a question of timing and will be sold as job creation of course.

[jasepom]

You can't support Mining industries at the same time as dropping support of the car industry. Are mining jobs more important ? Why do they need tax breaks when they are making record profits.

 

I'm no economist but it doesn't make sense.

[Bibbs]

You can't support Mining industries at the same time as dropping support of the car industry. Are mining jobs more important ? Why do they need tax breaks when they are making record profits.

 

I'm no economist but it doesn't make sense.

 

Because the miners have a product that sells, and sells well around the world. Holden and Ford don't.

[jasepom]

That's no use if they keep the money for themselves, don't pay taxes or give back to the community.

[Bibbs]

That's no use if they keep the money for themselves, don't pay taxes or give back to the community.

 

They employ a lot of people, who pay taxes and give back to the community.

 

And according to some people on here, they all get paid a lot of money. So that's a lot of tax.

 

Not ideal, I'd admit. But a whole lot better than nothing. I've plenty of friends that will be in Saudi or Canada paying taxes, if it carries on the way it did under Labor.

 

 

(Which I'll always compare tax dodgers to dole scum. One isn't putting enough into the pot, but the other is taking too much out).

[flag of convenience]

They employ a lot of people, who pay taxes and give back to the community.

 

And according to some people on here, they all get paid a lot of money. So that's a lot of tax.

 

Not ideal, I'd admit. But a whole lot better than nothing. I've plenty of friends that will be in Saudi or Canada paying taxes, if it carries on the way it did under Labor.

 

 

(Which I'll always compare tax dodgers to dole scum. One isn't putting enough into the pot, but the other is taking too much out).

 

A lot of tax dodges as well going on. Mostly legal but about ten or so years back know of a number that got stung, after getting the wrong advice from consultants. That was the scam around plantations. One bloke, who's brother I worked with, lost his house. It was semi legal until regulations changed.

 

It matters not how many they employ. Likely no more than needed to get the job done. The more employed suggests the more product being dug from the ground and shipped out. Hence greater loss of tax revenue that should have been paid but blocked by vested interests.

Nothing great about that. Once the ore is mined that's it. Game over.

 

It would be preferable to have a government that looks towards the benefit of the Australian nation, as ALP did attempt to do. Only to be beaten post to pillar by the Libs and their mining corporate mates. Shame.

 

So by tax dodgers do you include those that minimalize their tax through creative accounting? Do you include everybody on the dole? Scum rather a hard word to use on those down on their luck. Hopefully you have more sense than to label all with the same brush.

[flag of convenience]

Because the miners have a product that sells, and sells well around the world. Holden and Ford don't.

 

Because Australia is home to a product that is at present in demand and they can largely influence terms with regards to price. The domestic market is too small and the product too expensive to compete with auto's made in Asian markets.

[flag of convenience]

You can't support Mining industries at the same time as dropping support of the car industry. Are mining jobs more important ? Why do they need tax breaks when they are making record profits.

 

I'm no economist but it doesn't make sense.

 

Without mining places like Perth would struggle big time.

[Bibbs]

So by tax dodgers do you include those that minimalize their tax through creative accounting? Do you include everybody on the dole? Scum rather a hard word to use on those down on their luck. Hopefully you have more sense than to label all with the same brush.

 

Every case is different, in both extremes.

 

We don't make the rules, we just play by them.

 

If you are not minimizing your tax bill, you are a fool. If you are on the dole and not claiming for everything you can, likewise.

 

People lying and cheating (at both ends) I have issue with. And the rules we play by, themselves.

[Bibbs]

Because Australia is home to a product that is at present in demand and they can largely influence terms with regards to price. The domestic market is too small and the product too expensive to compete with auto's made in Asian markets.

 

So it seems silly to restrict our own industries (or by giving other countries free trade when it competes with our own - but too late for that now).

 

High minimum wage / cost of living, and strict unions didn't help out manufacturing.

 

I'd have personally stuck a $1000 (or another value) duty on any car bought in from abroad, and ring fenced it for the local made cars (maybe as a rebate). Therefore, the more foreign stuff sold, the cheaper the local stuff would become to compete. But that's all too late now.

[northshorepom]

^Protectionism often looks attractive in the short term but is very rarely a good idea in the long run

[jasepom]

Other countries have terms of trade where they put duties on imported goods to favour their own products. It's fairly common practise and for a country like Australia helps our vulnerable local industries. What's not fair IMO is not supporting companies when they ask for help from the govt in times of need. It's shortsighted t let jobs go during difficult times when the companies can turn the corner with a little help.

[Bibbs]

Other countries have terms of trade where they put duties on imported goods to favour their own products. It's fairly common practise and for a country like Australia helps our vulnerable local industries. What's not fair IMO is not supporting companies when they ask for help from the govt in times of need. It's shortsighted t let jobs go during difficult times when the companies can turn the corner with a little help.

 

The issue with the car industry, is it's been a long time coming.

 

By the time this (or even the previous) government came in, it was a dead man walking.

 

They really needed to open up to the global market properly. Selling a few thousand cars to the UAE, US and the UK is not the way to keep a global business going.

 

The other issue is that the people in charge at Ford and GM are in the US, and they are not worried about Aus as a manufacturing base. Hell, we are not even a large consumer base. Holden sells under 10,000 cars a month.

[jasepom]

I absolutely agree that the problem with the car industry is not with the cost of production (although that's what they want u to believe) or the quality of the product. It is the number of sales. The writing was on the wall when Mazda and others increased their car sales at the expense of the Commodore The problem was they didn't do anything about their shrinking market shares. Car companies have to export to survive. Why didn't GM back Holden to do this ? They limited their production numbers when they could have sold thousands of the VF in the states. Such a great car could have sold really well had they just bloody exported more.

[northshorepom]

Other countries have terms of trade where they put duties on imported goods to favour their own products. It's fairly common practise and for a country like Australia helps our vulnerable local industries. .

 

It may be common practice but it's rarely healthy practice

 

Protectionism is seductive as to the man in the street it looks like common sense. But ultimately it means:

a) Domestic resources are wasted in protected industries when they'd be better employed in industries where a competitive advantage does exist

b) Prices to consumers will be higher for the same goods, meaning less to spend on other goods/services, meaning less economic activity

c) The protected industries themselves tend to become increasingly (relatively) more inefficient/less competitive, meaning that when the day of reckoning does come it's much more severe (cf US auto industry)

d) Other countries retaliate in a ***-for-tat way and impact the domestic industries that do export

 

......I could go on

 

Totally agree with you jase that the problem for the Aus auto industry is volume (or lack of it). It's just hard to see how they could have made transformative changes that would have altered that. It's not a simple question of unit cost, nor union issues - Aus auto makers could have been twice as cost efficient and still been in trouble, the fixed costs in the modern world of R&D & plant for new models means you have to churn the numbers out or be in deep trouble

[Bibbs]

Why didn't GM back Holden to do this ? They limited their production numbers when they could have sold thousands of the VF in the states. Such a great car could have sold really well had they just bloody exported more.

 

Because of the duty paid on each car imported into Europe/USA made it unaffordable, and also competed with the local made product that had higher profit margins.

 

I did my bit* to help, but I'm not your average car buyer.

 

*Drives an HSV.