Completing Form 47sp for 820/801 & De Facto

[Dan Mears]

Hi all, registered a short while ago but may be requesting some help as I'm now compiling our De Facto application!. I have used a search but couldn't find the information I am about to ask. Any help anyone can give is appreciated!

 

To set the scene, myself and my fiancé Lauren (who is a PR from her Mum & Dads Visa) have been together for over 5 years. Lauren's mum and dad moved to Perth with her listed as a dependent as she lived at home. Though Loz initially came out with her parents for a few weeks she returned to the UK as I was at uni and Loz doing her Nursing qualification.

 

Fast forward a few years and we're now here in Oz so Loz can fulfill the requirements of her Visa to be granted PR or they rescind it. I'm on a working hol visa, but we are about to apply for the 820/801.

 

My questions are:

 

If DIAC are happy with the evidence that we present that 'proves' our 5 year relationship, what are the chances of being assessed for the 801 instantly, will I have to make a special request for this, or would it be automatic given the length of the relationship?

 

We are actually now engaged as of last month, but are still pursuing a De Facto visa as we do not want to get married 'just for a Visa' and would prefer to get married with more planning and at a pace that suits us. Would applying for a De Facto visa, as opposed to Prospective Marriage visa work against us, or would DIAC be understanding of this?

 

I don't want to sound stupid with the following questions, but there's a section on 47sp that states:

 

"In which countries have you visited (for any period of less than 12 months) during the last 10 years?Please include details for all members of your family unit included in your visa application."

 

This to me is a little ambiguous, as my parents and brother are 'listed' on the Visa, as they have to be, but I presume they are not 'included' in my application as they are not emigrating with me?

 

Also, I am pretty well travelled, and it is going to be ridiculously hard for me to remember all of my travels for 10 years! Are general holidays necessary for this? I have some obvious ones stamped into my passport, but this is only non-EU... Do I honestly have to list EVERYTHING?! :huh: I wouldn't want to miss some from memory, then DIAC have access to my electronic travel information held on my passport and them feel I am being misleading? 3-4+ hols per year over 10 years with exact dates is going to be nigh on impossible! :arghh:

 

I realise help from a registered migration officer would be helpful, but in truth I don't want to spend an obscene amount on what would seem be a relatively straight forward and very 'do-able' process!?!

 

 

Everything else in the process seems reasonable, am I right in thinking that I would be best to wait for a referral by a CO (once assigned) for my medicals rather than attempting by myself before hand?

 

Thanks again! :biggrin:

 

Dan & Loz

 

(BTW, we're always happy to meet like-minded people in the Perth/Rockingham area, we're both 24 and are always on the lookout for more friends!)

[CollegeGirl]

Unfortunately your application may be less straightforward than you think - in order to sponsor, Permanent Residents must be "usually resident" in Australia. The most common interpretation of "usually resident" is that she must actually have been living in the country over the previous two years. Sometimes they can be convinced to interpret it differently if your partner can demonstrate she intends to set up residence permanently in Aus - but I don't personally have the knowledge to tell you exactly how it is you do that. I'd suggest a registered migration agent to make sure this part doesn't trip you up.

 

Also, if you're applying onshore, the Prospective Marriage Visa is not an option. That is only an option for offshore applicants.

 

No, your parents and brother are not considered included on your application unless they are dependents (and it doesn't sound like they are).

 

Do the best you can to gather the information for all your travels (including holidays) to other countries - travel journals, Facebook posts, etc. in addition to passport stamps. Once you've done the best you can, add information in the last section under "Additional Information" to say you've done your best to recall all your trips but there may be some you missed to

.

[Dan Mears]

Unfortunately your application may be less straightforward than you think - in order to sponsor, Permanent Residents must be "usually resident" in Australia. The most common interpretation of "usually resident" is that she must actually have been living in the country over the previous two years. Sometimes they can be convinced to interpret it differently if your partner can demonstrate she intends to set up residence permanently in Aus - but I don't personally have the knowledge to tell you exactly how it is you do that. I'd suggest a registered migration agent to make sure this part doesn't trip you up.

 

Also, if you're applying onshore, the Prospective Marriage Visa is not an option. That is only an option for offshore applicants.

 

No, your parents and brother are not considered included on your application unless they are dependents (and it doesn't sound like they are).

 

Do the best you can to gather the information for all your travels (including holidays) to other countries - travel journals, Facebook posts, etc. in addition to passport stamps. Once you've done the best you can, add information in the last section under "Additional Information" to say you've done your best to recall all your trips but there may be some you missed to

.

 

Thanks for your contribution. We hadn't considered the 'usually' as a stumbling block; we were going on the basis that she is now more than likely here to stay and set down roots, but only with me by her side lol. Maybe we ought to seek advice in this area then... Aahhh my bad regarding the Pro Marriage, I do recall reading that but it had slipped my mind!

 

I can do that for the more recent trips, but the bulk will be between the 7-10 year mark! I'll just have to list what I can

 

Thanks again

[CollegeGirl]

Sure. I would love to be wrong about the "usually resident," but I don't think I am. There's a very well-respected migration agent whose work I know well who I have seen advise people to set up residence before trying to bring their spouse/partner over. He says it doesn't always have to be exactly two years - it will depend on the exact CO you get and your individual situation. But this is tricky enough I think professional help on the matter would be smart. Around here Go Matilda and George Lombard come highly recommended.

 

(EDIT: The agent I was paraphrasing above was Mark Northam. He doesn't seem to be too well-known around PomsInOz, but he's very helpful and knows his stuff, IMO.)

[Guest]

CollegeGirl has the same understanding of the usually resident rule as I do.

 

FWIW, don't do medial in advance. They only last for a year so wait till requested by your CO.

 

I'd not expect to gain PR off this. I'd expect temp visa to begin with. Have you actually been de facto for the entire 5 years or dating for a part of that? There is a difference and that is where I'd say it will depend on if you did manage to gain PR from the off. Generally they are looking for certain timeframes to have been passed but there is nothing set in stone as I understand it.

[CollegeGirl]

Oh, I missed the 801 question in my worry about the "usually resident" part. They actually do set out the rules for this in black and white. If you can demonstrate that you have been a de facto couple for three years or more (or 2 years or more for couples who have a child together), you'll get automatically assessed for the 801 and go straight to PR if approved. You don't have to ask for it - they do it automatically. But it doesn't hurt to include a cover letter that mentions that you think you likely qualify to go straight to the 801 since you've been a de facto couple for X years.

[CollegeGirl]

The above information comes straight from the Partner Migration Booklet, by the way. Page 37, at the bottom.

You may, however, be granted a permanent visa without having to fulfill the usual two-year waiting period if ...at the time you apply, you have been in a partner relationship with your partner for 3 years or more, or 2 years or more if you and your partner have a dependent child of your relationship.

 

I know it has that lovely little qualifying "may" in it, but in my experience from reading this board and another one since October of last year, they do it every time as long as the couple provides adequate evidence they've been married or in a de facto relationship for that long. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule like everything, but they must happen infrequently or we'd see more of them on various immigration boards, I think.

[Alan Collett]

Unfortunately your application may be less straightforward than you think - in order to sponsor, Permanent Residents must be "usually resident" in Australia. The most common interpretation of "usually resident" is that she must actually have been living in the country over the previous two years. Sometimes they can be convinced to interpret it differently if your partner can demonstrate she intends to set up residence permanently in Aus - but I don't personally have the knowledge to tell you exactly how it is you do that. I'd suggest a registered migration agent to make sure this part doesn't trip you up.

 

Also, if you're applying onshore, the Prospective Marriage Visa is not an option. That is only an option for offshore applicants.

 

No, your parents and brother are not considered included on your application unless they are dependents (and it doesn't sound like they are).

 

Do the best you can to gather the information for all your travels (including holidays) to other countries - travel journals, Facebook posts, etc. in addition to passport stamps. Once you've done the best you can, add information in the last section under "Additional Information" to say you've done your best to recall all your trips but there may be some you missed to

.

 

 

Are you confusing the usually resident requirement for a sponsor of a partner visa application with the settled sponsor requirement for a parent visa application?

 

Remember that Australians living in (say) the UK can sponsor their partners for a partner visa - the usually resident requirement tends to be applied with a light touch.

 

Best regards.

[CollegeGirl]

Are you confusing the usually resident requirement for a sponsor of a partner visa application with the settled sponsor requirement for a parent visa application?

 

Remember that Australians living in (say) the UK can sponsor their partners for a partner visa - the usually resident requirement tends to be applied with a light touch.

 

Best regards.

 

Thanks Alan. I've learned a lot from your posts, so I'm really grateful you replied to help straighten this out. I understand that Australian citizens can be living anywhere and still sponsor, but my understanding is that Australian permanent residents must be "usually resident in Australia." What you're saying is that in your experience "usually resident" isn't generally interpreted to mean in Australia for the previous two years? And that a Permanent Resident who has only resided in Australia for a few short weeks, living with her parents, can qualify as "usually resident?"

[Alan Collett]

"Usually resident" is a term that isn't restricted to a quantitative test such as how long have you been physically in Australia.

 

It is more qualitative and has been looked at by the courts, particularly in the UK under the "ordinarily resident" tests applying in the tax legislation.

 

Best regards.