Alan Collett Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Hello Gill. I agree that this is an interesting case. I remain nervous though about applicants applying for CP visas where the sponsor has not been residing in Australia for at least 2 years - particularly if they are not represented by a competent agent. It is certainly do-able for parents to seek a CP visa within 2 years of the sponsoring child arriving to live in Australia, but the case has to be clearly made - and all concerned must understand the consequences if a case officer chooses to take a negative stance on the "settled" issue, which could be 12 months+ later given present processing experiences with CP visa applications. Not all will want to run the risk of a negative decision by a case officer leading to an appeal before a review tribunal. The key point is that those affected make a decision as to proceeding sooner rather than later with a full understanding of the points at issue. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Hi Alan I completely agree that nobody should be encouraged to do anything with this visa unless all the pros and cons are clearly understood by all concerned before a decision is made about what to do. However, we are coming up towards 30 June and anybody who might have a reasonable chance of beating that deadline should be encouraged to get an Agent on board who is not going to try to cling slavishly to the 2 year Policy guidance but will instead take a rational look at the situation and provide some properly informed advice about whether or not to go for it. Also, it was never the intention in the Policy fhat the family should have to wait for what could be 4 years (including the 2 before an application is made) before a supposedly fast-track visa will be forthcoming. Unless the Minister does something dramatic with the quota, the Minister is going to have to be seen to bend on the "settled" question, I reckon, and to give that time to come right whilst everybody twiddles their thumbs waiting for the wretched CPV application to be processed. Policy can soon be revised and I think it will have to be if the Minister decides (in the light of the A.G.A's pessimistic advice) that increasing the quota would put too much of a strain on the public purse. The world is not going to stand still whilst the Minister chews the cud about this. People will demand flexibility from DIAC in the meanwhile. There is also nothing to stop the child in Oz from picking up the phone and having a chat with the Manager of the POPC, so that he can run through the factors in the "settled" question with the child who needs to demonstrate that s/he is settled in Oz. An e-mail from him confirming that he reckons the facts are OK would be a clincher, I reckon. Cheers Gill PS: Settled down to watch the Emma Thompson version of "Sense & Sensibility" earlier. It was so wooden & boring that I fell asleep in front of the telly for 2 hours! Now wide awake again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Thanks Gill. This issue seems to come up regularly, so I have taken some time out to prepare an article on Go Matilda News: Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News I fear we are heading for a lengthening queue of CP visa applicants though ... hopefully the new Minister will see that CP visaholders do in fact bring significant benefit to Australia, and allow what amounts to a more compassionate ceiling on the number of visas that can be granted each year. I still await a reply to my correspondence to him on this subject (and others). Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Hi Alan You are one well & truly brilliant man! Thank you very much for your new (and excellent) Article on GM, which I have just read, and also for the link to the recent Badcock case, which I didn't find yesterday. (I probably didn't use narrow enough parameters plus I wanted the Sampson case to come up, so I probably skimmed through the list too fast!) I have spent the last 10 days puzzling over a remark made by Nigel Dobbie 10 or so days ago. (You may be aware that he is an Accredited Specialist in Immigration Law.) The facts for the family concerned are too complex to describe, but it was recommended that an Accredited Specialist should be consulted and I reckon that Nigel Dobbie is one of the best, plus tough. (The possibility of an application for an Aged Parent visa was being considered, because of a loophole in the time-of-application requirements with that one visa alone. The need was to give the Balance of Family Test time in which to come right, and the BoF Test is a time of decision requirement only with that particular visa - strangely. Nigel Dobbie's advice, on the particular facts, was that the idea was a nice try but a non-starter. Too many other factors just would not have been right by the time the application would be made, so he said such an attempt would cause an early decision by DIAC, it would be a refusal and Mr Dobbie felt that the Tribunal and/or the Court would both uphold DIAC.) However, Mr Dobbie insisted both to the clients and to me - though I was only involved in introducing them to him - that it would be enough if the relevant daughter (and prospective Sponsor) had simply "unpacked her bags." I've been wrestling with that ever since, thinking, "What is his authority for such a very bullish stance about this?" Thanks to you, the penny has now dropped!! The family I am referring to were considering an onshore application for an Aged Parent visa and the relevant Parent would indeed have reached Oz soon after her child. I now think Mr Dobbie must have been alluding to Badcock. Personally, though - if we were discussing my mother who applied for the offshore Contributory Parent 143 visa - I would tend to run with Sampson rather than with Badcock. A bit of caution never hurts, in my view! I completely agree with you that LOTS of extra documentary evidence about the nature of the Sponsor's lifestyle should be included in the bundle sent with the application (and I think it is reasonable for an Agent to charge extra for assessing the evidence etc - I would charge extra, anyway! The degree of care & control required is greater and so forth.) One thing I don't like about both of the MRT cases is that in both of them, the Tribunal set great store by the fact that the Sponsor had become an Australian Citizen by the time of the Hearing. Even if we factor in an assumption that an offshore CPV application might take 2 years or more from now on, that will not necessarily give the Sponsor enough time to become an Australian Citizen under the new Citizenship rules. Attending a Citizenship Ceremony the day before the MRT hearing is a mite thin, I feel! The news that the Sponsor has obtained an RRV by the time of the Hearing sounds skinny to me as well! I think one would have to beef up the evidence of the Sponsor's "settled" lifestyle to the hilt because of the Citizenship angle. I don't like Mrs Sampson's srgument that she needed her Parents in Oz promptly so that they could act as unpaid skivvies, either. Surely one can come up with something more elegant than that?! Also, let us suppose that the Sponsor's job requires him/her to spend time outside Australia. In that scenario, I'd be inclined to say, "Well you'd better have a Spouse who will be in Oz full-time, looking after your children who will be settled and doing well in their new schools. Hand over the evidence of the Spouse's charity work or whatever it is, plus the school reports demonstrating that the children are thriving in their new schools, please..." I don't want anyone reading this thread to imagine that less than 2 years is a sure-fire certainty, and I think you are quite right to insist in your article that decisions about this can only be made in conjunction with one-to-one, detailed advice from an RMA with a proven track record in Parent visa applications. Several Agents, yourself included, do have that track record by the shedload - but this is not the right territory for the guy who really only does skilled visas and is not fully aware of all the things that could go wrong with a Parent application. Very, very many thanks again Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maff Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 HI GILL, HAVE READ INFO FROM YOURSELF AND ALLAN COLLETT, WOULD GOING FOR A VISA BEFORE THE 2YEARS INCUR MORE COSTS.WE DONT WANT TO START THINGS TO HASTILY AND THEN BE REFUSED A VISA. SON IS IN PROCESS OF BUYING HOUSE AND THEY BOTH HAVE PERMANENT JOBS. WOULD GETTING IN TOUCH WITH GOING MATILDA HELP IN ANY WAY? MANY MANY THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP. ELAINE AND MAFF:huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 HI GILL, HAVE READ INFO FROM YOURSELF AND ALLAN COLLETT, WOULD GOING FOR A VISA BEFORE THE 2YEARS INCUR MORE COSTS.WE DONT WANT TO START THINGS TO HASTILY AND THEN BE REFUSED A VISA. SON IS IN PROCESS OF BUYING HOUSE AND THEY BOTH HAVE PERMANENT JOBS. WOULD GETTING IN TOUCH WITH GOING MATILDA HELP IN ANY WAY? MANY MANY THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP. ELAINE AND MAFF:huh: Hi Elaine & Maff Yes, I think it would definitely be worth contacting Go Matilda promptly. They would not charge for an initial discussion for 10-15 minutes or so just to get a picture of the facts relating to your son's settlement in Australia. I would recommend asking your son to contact them, however, because he will know the answers to all the questions they will be likely to ask. The whole thing turns on your son's lifestyle since his arrival in Oz, so Go Matilda will be able to get a better picture of that from him than from you. I'd suggest that your son should ring their Melbourne office to start with and to ask to speak with Alan Collett. If he is busy, he will call back when he is free. The contact details are here: Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - Contact and Feedback Meanwhile - since you are in the UK - I would suggest that you have a chat with Tony Coates, as suggested in my earlier post. There is no point in your trying to call Australia at a time when you may be tired and so on. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maff Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Hi Gill, Thanks For Reply, Will Discuss Things With My Husband When He Gets Home On Wednesday. I Will Get Son To Ring Going Matilda From Oz, They Are Now In Process Of Buying House And They Both Have Permanent Jobs And Permanent Residancy. Many Thanks Elaine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Hi Elaine Thanks for your note. I think your proposed plan of action is very sensible. Please let me know how you get on, won't you? Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest june coates Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Hi June They don't supply anything in writing to confirm that the meds & pccs are OK - apart from a visa! Yes, you can apply for the CP143 as soon as you like after your CP173 is granted. You can be in Australia throughout the process for the upgrade. How is your arm now? Hugz Gill hi gill, thanks for the info once again.i was a little worried as i had not had any more written contact from co. i had my plaster off last friday,need a little physio,but otherwise good.it hasnt stopped me getting on with my new life.we are now in the process of looking for a house for me.i will know when the right one comes along. love june Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Hi June You and I both know that a broken arm is trivial (particularly if you must go scrambling around on slippery great boulders!) However, you probably should disclose the injury to DIAC, just so that they can run it past the MOC if need be. I'd suggest that you ring your CO, explain what happened and request guidance about whether or not you need to disclose that you got the worst of it on your recent "exploration of Australia." If s/he thinks you should then s/he will explain how to do it. Love Gill xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michelle & Family Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Can I ask hwo much is the Bond for Contributory Parent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoanneHattersley Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Can I ask hwo much is the Bond for Contributory Parent? $14000. Just paid it for my parents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest InPerth Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Hi Gill, I am back onto this thread!! My parents have come into Oz now on the 173 and initially the family had decided we will wait a bit and then apply for the 143. However, I think its not a bad idea to apply straightaway. I have a couple of questions though. See, my dad had to go through a tough medical check for the 173 because he was a heart patient. Now when converting the 173 to 143 does he need to do medicals again? The immi website says "Generally medicals are not required", does that mean they may still ask him to do medicals? I am very very worried when it comes to any meds issue. Also do you have any idea how long it takes to convert 173 to 143? Thanks IP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 The 143 can be applied for straightaway if your parents want to go for it. I dare say the sooner they lodge the 143 the less probable is a request for medicals. Liaise with family section at the local DIAC office (who will handle the 143 application) ... or maybe instruct an agent to handle this for them. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Hi InPerth How lovely to hear from you again. I’m sooooo pleased to hear that your Parents have now joined you in Perth and that all is well. They wouldn’t normally request further meds unless the upgrading Parent has spent time in a country where s/he might have contracted TB. In the event of TB they treat it with antibiotics and get rid of it. They are reasonable about the idea that they cannot take repeated bites at the medical cherry after helping themselves to a large chunk of money. Someone would haul them into Court in no time if they tried that and the aggrieved visa applicant would win, I am sure. I would get cracking on the upgrade though simply so as to get the whole visa process out of the way, then the whole family can relax and forget about visas for good. To get the ball rolling, as Alan says, you need to contact the general DIAC office in Perth. The address is here: http://www.immi.gov.au/contacts/australia/wa-perth.htm Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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