Dan Not Dale

10 minutes ago, Parley said:

Yes I understand. I don't like the look of housing estates with houses crammed in next to each other on very small blocks. I know your rough location Is that Sandhurst? A long way from the city, but at least you are not too far to drive to some nice beaches around Mount Eliza and Mornington.

You could look at an older house in a more established suburb closer in or think about whether you like to live in an apartment.

Yeah we are close to Sandhurst. Did apartments in Bentleigh whilst saving a deposit. Mixed feelings.

I’m very appreciative of your suggestions (Eliza, Mornington). I think my reactions to them actually tell me what I need to know. Been to them, they have no appeal at all.

Maybe I’m just a pint in a sh*t pub while watching the football, then back home to watch tv kinda guy, and that’s ok, but not very Australian. 

I hope I’m not coming across too contradictory, these comments are helping a lot. 

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Exactly.  I'd say the same about Sydney, and you'd only have to ask @bug family about the dreaded boondocks of Perth.  Like I said, big cities always have their fair share of dodgy suburbs.

@Dan Not Dale, how does your partner feel about going back to Blighty?  I think that's the biggest question, because it's got to be  a joint decision.   And I understand about finacial concerns, but you need to think about the long-term future, not just now. 

Below is a cautionary tale.  It's a typical story we've seen from several members who came to Australia for a "better lifestyle", didn't really settle, but stayed because they were financially better off: 

Kids come along, and life gets too busy to think about going home. Eventually the pull gets stronger - maybe parents getting older - but you can't move now, because the kids are in Year 10 so you can't disrupt their education.  Then they leave school, but you discover they'll be treated as a foreigner by British universities so will have to pay full fees, no grants or loans. Can't afford that, so you're stuck till they finish uni. But by that time, your kids are 100% Aussie so they won't leave - and your wife won't leave them, especially once they marry and there are grandkids in prospect.  Maybe you'll leave when the grandkids are teenagers and don't have as much time for grandpa and grandma?

So you think, worst case scenario, I'll retire back home. But then you discover that means losing a third of your superannuation to the British taxman, you can't claim the Australian pension, and you're not entitled to much of a British one either.  So you're stuck till you die.

(I should just repeat that I feel far more Australian now than British so I can't fully empathise with people in that situation, but I have seen similar stories too many times on these forums - to ignore them would be playing Pollyanna).

Ultimately she would come back, but we’re always goona be away from one side of the family. We’d have a circle of friends in UK tho.

I’m acutely aware of all covered there and play these sort of scenarios in my head all the time. Keeps me up at night. 

Always said I’m on the first plane home when the parents start to struggle, but yeah once a kid is in the mix, isn’t that simple. 

I guess it’s why I’ve reached out here.  The constant worry and comparison. It’s just put life on hold. 

7 minutes ago, Parley said:

I live in Melbourne and love it, but I would not like to live in certain places in Melbourne.

I suspect you might be out in the western suburbs or far South East ? If you don't mind saying the suburb I can comment better. I would never live out in Point Cook for example.

I am in what might be considered the leafy eastern suburbs and it is a wonderful lifestyle. Trouble is family homes are getting to around $1.5 M now.

I don't think you condemn all of Melbourne if you are in an undesirable part. Melbourne is huge in area.

Cranbourne South. Brand new estate. The Estate itself is extremely good. People travel to be in the estate at the weekend. Take their kids to the parks. I think you’d be presently surprised.

Yep, I appreciate no one has time to study the whole thread carefully, I’ve openly said if we were in Brighton, Black Rock I’m sure we’d have an great life.

But as you say, there is no way I’m taking on 1.4 million of debt to be in one of the desirable suburbs, I couldn’t sleep at night with that kind of debt. 
Perhaps my original post should have said that Melbourne can be a great place, but the vast majority of people below a certain age have a choice. Insane debt or soulless suburbs. 

I appreciate first time buyers can’t go straight to in to a four bed inner eastern suburb, but let’s say your the average 30 year old with 100k saved up for a deposit (which I’m told most don’t even have). What choice would you have? 

sorry if sounds like a rant, just open to discussing the topic, I can get quite passionate about it  

I assumed as much!

I’m just pleasantly surprised I wasn’t absolutely hammered for suggesting there are any negatives to Melbourne. 

So nice to be among Brits, acknowledging negatives……. maybe hanging around here will be all the change I need?

Sorry about that last post, very glitchy.

Yeah it is more about routine  no one even needs to drive more than 10 mins in all the scenarios this has happened in.

Do threads always go off topic like this?

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I think that has a lot more to do with a reluctance to disturb their lives than with a reluctance to travel, though.

5 minutes ago, ramot said:

The best example of reluctance to travel in my experience, is returning to UK for a visit, travelled halfway across the world, but will people travel to see you? No, you have to go to them, long time expat jokes, excuses range from I can’t see you on Wednesday it’s the day I go shopping, or bingo on Thursday, and of course Monday is washing  day, so entrenched in their routines, We used to rent a 2 bed place to start with, innocently thinking friends would visit and stay, oh no you almost always had to do the extra travelling to catch up. 

Always had a great welcome and catch up, so worth it, but a different mind set from friends who had never travelled far from home.

This is my biggest annoyance when I return on trips.

You can’t possibly miss one week of karate to see us, that would be ridiculous.

I get that we moved away, but is the schedule really that set in stone.

55 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

If Basingstoke feels around the right size, then I would take that as a guide.  Maybe think about what other cities you like in the UK, and check what their populations are, too.  In my experience, the size of population isn't a bad guide to what place is likely to be like in either country (certainly not perfect, but it's a place to start!).

Ballarat and Bendigo are a bit small at 110,000 people but they are tipped to grow fast due to the exodus from Melbourne, so that sounds like they could have potential. Both have lots of history and historical buildings too.  

Other than that, there isn't a lot of choice of similar-sized cities in Australia.  You've got Hobart, Townsville, Cairns.  

I would definitely recommend Adelaide, but also look at Newcastle.  It's bigger than Basingstoke (nearly 500,000 people) but much smaller than any of the capitals.  Like Basingstoke, it's within a couple of hours'driving distance of a major city (London for Basingstoke, Sydney for Newcastle).   Housing much cheaper than Melbourne, good beaches, on the doorstep of the wine region.  

Whichever you put on your shortlist, I'd say it's absolutely essential to visit.  Not just for a day or even a weekend, but for a couple of weeks to do a proper job.  

(as for Perth - if you find amazingly cheap suburbs, remember your Melbourne experience.  Perth has some lovely areas but it has a huge swathe of soulless suburbs too, like any city that size - and that's where housing is cheapest!)

Yeah definitely conscious of not swapping one soulless suburb for another

48 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

I think Parmelia is one of the cheapest suburbs in Perth. I expect the ambiance is reflective of that. However I could be way off...We are in the Northern suburbs. There are people on here who live south though. 

What is your suburb? Now I know your travel times to CBD I can base other estimates off of it.

6 minutes ago, Lavers said:

Adelaide is nice and chilled and easy to get around.

We are currently looking at building a house in Mount Barker which is only 30-40mins drive into the CBD, and you could get a 4 bedroom house on a decent enough block for under $500,000.

House prices are shooting up at the minute but still cheaper than Victoria I would imagine.

Never done the drive in peak traffic but I would have thought that it would still be well under an hour.

Good beaches and plenty of scenery in the hills.

Definite value to be had then. And a slower pace potentially. I shall have to do some research on Adelaide too. 

12 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

Do you like things to do nearby, bars, restaurants etc, history, culture? Country feel? 

Fremantle or Leederville might suit you for a city vibe. More culture in Freo. Both on the train line. You’d be paying closer to 1000k to live there though. Houses for 700k up in Leederville. 
 

Guildford is lovely. 20 mins from city. On the train line. Hills region.  Historic early settlement town. 700k plus for a 3 bed though. 

This things you point out would be nice. But I’m willing to drive to them on the weekend if the proceeding week hasn’t felt like such a slog.

Do you know anything about places like southern river or Parmelia? 
we’ve just had a look at what you can build there for under 500k and we are staggered!

13 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

A very long time ago.   Warrnambool is only 35,000 people compared to Bendigo's 110,000 people. What size was the town you came from in England?  S

It's far too easy to sit in Melbourne and think, 'Oh, there's no point moving somewhere else because they'll be just as bad".  Doing that, you're just making massive assumptions and that's no basis for making decisions.  You're within driving distance of all these places so do your research.

I'm wondering if either:

• deep down, you really long to go home, so you don't WANT to find place you could be happy in Australia - you'd be surprised how often that's the case;
• you've got depression, which makes it difficult to get up and do something about your issue - so a counsellor might help;
• you're a lazy bugger.

I'm actually wondering if it's the first one that really applies but your partner isn't keen to leave their family?

Basingstoke, Hampshire, approx 180k and rising.

yep highly likely could be the first one and I don’t want to find a place to justify my move home, and fortunately I’m somewhat aware of it on some level.

I may have given the wrong impression on having to be vic. It’s comfortable to choose vic as her family is here. But we are willing to look elsewhere. 

12 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

What about the rest of Victoria? 

Not seen much of it. Warrnambool was lovely though when we went there. Have you been there?

33 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

I’ve only ever visited Melbourne twice and not seen beyond the CBD. That didn’t thrill me tbh. 
 

House prices very much depend on your needs and where you want to live. We live 35 mins from the city and house prices are average 500k in our suburb. 
 

Rush hour is a pain. If I’m driving back from the office after 4pm it’ll take me an hour to get home. If I get on the road before that 45 mins. 30 outside of rush hour. Same in the morning and it’s worst from say 7 till 8.30am. The train is a good option. A lot of people park at train station and commute in that way. 
 

Infrastructure not too bad. Freeway goes up to Butler which is about 50 mins out from City with extensions planned to start soon. My husband works at the airport and recent works have shaved a good 10 mins off his commute. 
 

Id recommend Perth but I’m biased. What’s your lifestyle like? What are you looking for?

I’d describe Perth as a clean, modern, pretty city with stunning coastline and bush in equal measure. If you like the outdoor lifestyle it’s perfect. It’s very quiet in comparison to Melbourne. 
It’s diverse with the coastal burbs having a very different feel to the hills and the outer burbs respectively. 
 

500k sounds good for a 30 min outside rush hour.

We have a new build but it’s small 3 bedroom house (by Aussie standards but great for us), Outer suburb, infrastructure cr*p. 50-55 mins to city off peak. 1.5+ hours every morning and similar home from 3.30 - 6.30pm. 

To cover it succinctly, Im not outdoorsy. Im thinking ahead, I want good life for my child (which we don’t have yet lol). And I just don’t want to feel like I’m in a rat race all the time.

Sorry to be vague, but these comparisons are so valuable to hear! I think mainly I just want some time back every day to remember what I like doing and not be a miserable moaning Pom.

I stay at the office till 6.30 every day just to not sit in the traffic if that paints a picture. 

2 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

Where did you stay when you came?

Leeming, stayed with my dads best mate who moved to Australia 30+years ago. Did Christmas in 2005 and then I visited them for a week in 2011 and 2015. I lied, it’s 3 times

14 minutes ago, HappyHeart said:

Is it unfair? Absolutely. The more.people who believe it though the better. We like it quiet. 

I’ve often said to partner can we just try Perth. What’s it a actually like? Am I still looking at 1 million plus for a house which gives a 45 mins commute or less for job in or near the city.

Are the roads always busy? Does rush hour last from 2.30 to 6.30 like Melbourne. Will people do anything to get one car ahead of me in traffic?

Has infrastructure proceeded suburban sprawl? Or is it playing catch up?

do you know Melbourne, would you have enough knowledge to compare the two?

Sorry to ask so much. 

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, I'm not suggesting they move to the country and commute to Melbourne.  I was suggesting, work permitting, that they look at a smaller city to live AND work in.  The OP then replied that they'd want to stay close to Melbourne to be close to family, hence the suggestion of Geelong, Bendigo or Ballarat.

The area between Melbourne and Geelong is getting very built up but it was founded as a separate city and still has its own identity and its own city centre.  To me, that's the difference between a satellite city like Geelong and a suburb:  a suburb still looks to the main city centre for many of its amenities, whereas a satellite city has its own identity and its own amenities in its own city centre.

To be honest, I always saw Geelong as a dirty, working-class town and have been very surprised by the number of people who have moved there (mainly young families) and are loving it. They like the fact that unlike Melbourne, you can live in suburbs which have both the beach and suburb within easy reach.

Yep partners uncle lives in Geelong. In a great spot too. I can see positives and negatives to the place. 

2 hours ago, rammygirl said:

I would never want to live anywhere I couldn’t walk to a high street with a range of shops, cafes and restaurants (I never have). I also need countryside for walking and cycling and a reasonable drive to a big town/city or beach. That is my criteria and is more important than the perfect house in an area that doesn’t have this.

Unfortunately with COVID this seems to have become more important to more people and vibrant suburbs and towns are seeing big price hikes now.  I don’t like the many suburbs, even the leafy expensive ones that have no centre or high street, but they seem to appeal to lots of people with money…..

Yep I’m with you on the reasonable drive to a city, I’d feel isolated too far from one. Although I could gladly never go to a beach again (I didn’t mention this just to get a disagreement in there, more to paint a picture of how I might not be cut out for Aussie life).

yeah I think the vibrant suburbs will continue to thrive, but I do tip and exedous from Melbourne at some point when it becomes even more unliveable, especially if a few businesses move out and jobs become available more regionally. Any exedous of population would be replaced by immigration. 

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Have you ever visited?  That would be the first step if not.  Book some weekends away.

Drove to and from Bendigo for work once, looked tiny, nice enough, but yes I should visit.

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

That's what I was trying to say.  It's impossible to have large cities like Sydney, Melbourne, Vienna, Manchester, Paris, Madrid, you name it, without having soulless suburbs.  They're inevitable. Anything over about a million people and you'll start to see them (yes, Perth has them too!).  

Most migrants to Australlia arrive in those large cities and due to lack of funds, they often end up in the soulless burbs.  It can give a very distorted view of Australia.

Yep I agree. I have been told that one giant soulless suburb would be a good description of Perth. Is that unfair? I’ve been twice but barely left the same suburb both times, seems nice. Trip and living always different tho.

and yes I think we could have a phenomenal life in Brighton, South Yarra or similar suburbs. Better than UK. A lot of debt needed tho so yes, we’ve ended up in a soulless one

On 08/03/2021 at 09:55, North to South said:

Hi,

I’ve always had Sky and then SkyQ in the UK more for the convenience of recording and watching TV online, but never thought it was value for money, but just paid for the convenience.  Now here in Adelaide I’m trying to decide whether it’s worth having FOXTEL or if there are better alternatives to use.  I’ve not missed much from Sky and been happy just with 7, 9 & 10 here and catching up on some UK programmers via a VPN, so just not sure if any TV pack is worth having so appreciate any views on whether paid TV is worth it here.

Thanks

 

 

I would advise against foxtel, nothing on there. 

Only thing on there you can’t get elsewhere is some sport. And now that’s only AFL football (which I doubt you will want to watch) and Formula 1. 

Other than that it’s just re runs of American police shows, CSI, NYLAPD, FML….. whatever they are called.

Use the money for VPN instead, Australian TV is garbage. 
 

2 hours ago, rammygirl said:

I’m not a fan of soulless suburbs and there are a lot of them in Aus. I live in a lovely historic town in SA with tree lined streets and old buildings. My son lives in a lovely suburb in Canberra with many deciduous trees so looks lovely in Autumn. My other son lives in a similar area in SA.  Not all Australia is soulless. 

I’m sure there are many nice places and that’s good to know. 

13 hours ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

Hi Dan,

We have just returned to the UK after 15 years in Australia.  I know there will be times when I’ll be “homesick” for Oz just as I missed England when I was in Australia.  We lived in Bendigo and if you’re looking to move out of Melbourne I can thoroughly recommend it. You’ll find house prices much more affordable, and it actually has history, being one of the gold towns.  We made lots of friends there even though we were in our fifties when we migrated.

Where abouts in England are you from? Are bendigo like towns in any way comparable to a typical UK town? 

14 hours ago, HappyHeart said:

You need to try another state or another region of Vic. You don't want to go home. You just need them to send you crisps or go find a good pommy shop. 

Had 2 crisp care packages in last 12 months from home thankfully. Now working through the last of the sweets, chocolate and angel delight (yes I’m 12).

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

How brits go in smaller towns?  To me, that comment reveals something about how you're feeling about Australia.  Why do you think Brits moving to a small town will be treated any differently to an Australian or a Kiwi or any other incomer moving there?   

If you're worried about boredom - think about what your interests are.  Then Google to see what is on offer for your interests in those towns.  Maybe you're thinking TOO small.   I'm talking about towns like Geelong, Ballarat or Bendigo and then you live AND work there, not moving to a little town, treating it like a dormitory and still commuting to Melbourne.

I may have worded it badly. I didnt mean treatment wise, rather what experiences have people had living in Australian towns. 

And yes I probably do think a little too small town wise. I could be far from correct, but geelongs and bendigos strike me as pretty similar to living in outer suburbs of Melbourne. Happy to be proven wrong. 

Thanks for the suggestions. It’s nice to have things pitched to me, as I don’t discuss it with anyone here, through fear of an aggressive  protection of Melbourne. My instinctive reactions to your suggestions do, as you say, reveal how I’m feeling about the place.