theveed

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/04/27/i-dont-know-if-ill-be-here-in-a-month-startup-worker-in-lim_a_22057654/

Those that are affected are not just the McFlippers people complain about, unfortunately. 

“In this industry in particular, there’s not exactly an unemployment issue – there’s an enormous skills shortage. So the last thing we need is more laws and regulations that’s going to hamper fulfilling the jobs that are available,” he says.

“Without getting too political, to say ‘hey we’re going to abolish the 457 visa’ … it just seems like a populist political move for an election. But what you’re really doing is messing with the safety and security of businesses – you’re messing with our financial infrastructure. That’s what it feels like at this stage."

https://www.broadsheet.com.au/national/food-and-drink/article/what-does-457-visa-abolition-mean-australias-hospitality-industry

http://www.straitstimes.com/business/career-plans-thwarted-lives-uprooted?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&xtor=CS1-10#link_time=149370642

It's now a topic in Singapore, wherein a large proportion of foreign students come from. 

On 4/21/2017 at 5:12 PM, New Member said:

Just found out my friend who applied for a 457 on the 12/04/2017 was approved 5 days later on the 17/04/2017! 

Her job is still on the skilled list, but how can that be fair!

 

Frankly, a lot of factors are in play. If her job is still in the long term list, then that's a huge hurdle to clear. If her sponsor is also an existing sponsor in good standing, it can go through very quickly.

My case is a bit tough, the company's a new applicant as well. The company sponsorship stage took 6 months to approve. Now we're still going through nomination and actual visa.

On 4/22/2017 at 11:24 PM, VERYSTORMY said:

This is going to sound harsh. But it is true. 

If you come on a 457 visa, you come on a visa that it is what it says on the tin. A temporary visa. It has never had an automatic path to permanent residence and big changes to the system are not uncommon. As a result, people posting on the forum have always been advised to treat it as a temporary move and that at the end of the visa you leave. 

On an average year there are over 1000 changes to migration law. Most will have consequences for some. 

Agreed, it has never been an automatic path, it wasn't before, it still isn't now. 

However, in the old system, you can still APPLY for a PR, now, as long as you're not in the MLTSSL, you're out; and a lot of the jobs in that STSOL aren't the usual ones that get abused by the low-income. mass-hiring job segment.

On 4/22/2017 at 2:34 PM, Agz15 said:

Rubbish, this announcement has really messed up our plans.

Also confused about the one onshore renewal rule...maybe there will be options to renew or return if you apply offshore??

On a separate note - does anyone have any experience with the direct entry 186, partner would be at 3 years work experience point by jan/feb next year but haven't been able to find any info on if applications submitted before the March 2018 changes will only be applicable to applications submitted after that date. 

I'm curious about renewing another 2 years via offshore as well.. 

13 hours ago, Agz15 said:

the gov factsheet only mentions that the PR pathway is unavailable on the 2 year TSS visas effective March 2018. No specific mention of no chance to PR for 457s granted up until that point

anyone heard anything else or in a similar position?

I think if you haven't completed your minimum 186/187 requirement of 2 years working under the same 457 and you're in the CSOL (Short Term) list before Mar2018, you'll fall under the no-PR cluster.

3 hours ago, imthedave said:

I did that. My skills, my knowledge gained over the past 25 years but because it was over that time period, I'm now 46.

Now though, it seems that level of skill set is not considered as needed for the long term in Australia and what they want is for people like me to come here, do this for 2 - 4 years and then leave and not be rewarded by the chance of PR.  It's true that at this age, anyone who has moved around like this would now be looking forward towards how and where they would potentially retire. I'm not trying to create a stereotype but generally, people my age and in this level of position are not 'poor' to an extend we would be a drain on society.

Think about this.. I actually have a long term strategic plan in place already for elevating my current younger staff up to a level that maybe they will take over from me in 10 - 12 years time. Thus, the cycle becomes complete and the company is fully 100% Australia and I am rewarded by being able to settle in a nice country.

Why can't I be rewarded by Australia by doing this?

I'm pushing forward now with the direct entry 186 before the new age limits come in next April.

I think Australia has it's faults like anywhere else but in general, it is a fantastic place to live and bring up children. It's like that because of the complete multi-cultural skill set.

Australia is a hell of a long way away from anywhere else though in travel times. Once these new practices come into effect fully, I really can't see many middle aged, experienced senior level people wanting to up root their families and come such a long way for such a short period and nobody is going to come all this way without their families having to face lengthy time away from the business for visiting 'home'

 

Sorry.. rant over ;-)

 

 

 

So with you on this @imthedave

Our company wants to transfer me to Aus, and I already have a business and operation plan to build up a local team of 5 for 2017 and another 5-10 in 2018 for our business unit serving Aus/NZ. All of that is out of the window now if I don't get relocation, particularly for a long-term PR arrangement.

Like you, I'm in the 40s and we're set to spend at least 10-20 years of our lives in Australia as our kid just started secondary school and we've been planning to send him to Australia for university 6 years down the road anyway, we thought it'd make sense for us to just move earlier rather than wait until he has to apply for a student visa.

Not to bring income into limelight, we're not exactly moving there taking away anyone's job opportunity or even social services with the relocation package and personal investment we plan to carry over from Singapore to Aus... 

While I understand the constant need for immigration and work visa policies to be reviewed, carpet bombing based purely on a list is rather short-sighted, particularly if the business that applied for the visa needs a foreign employee to run the entity.

It's like saying "we'll only allow locally-born owners, MDs, GMs, and C-level individuals to operate and stay in Australia beyond 4 years".

2 hours ago, New Member said:

I submitted my 457 visa 5 months ago (normally they take 3 months to approve) Every time my lawyer would call up immigration to find out why it is taking so long, they would never give her an update. They then change the lead time to 6 months. I was expecting my visa to be approved in the next couple of weeks, however my occupation has now been removed from the skilled list. Meaning I will probably have to leave the country in the next 28 days. The main thing that baffles me, is a friend of mine, who applied for the 457 visa at the same times as me (who's job is still on the skilled list) had her visa approved within the 3 month time frame. Could be a coincident or maybe they knew my occupation was going to be removed. Either way I cant help but feel like I've been treated unfairly. 

I original came to Australia for a holiday, however i fell in love with the place, the culture and the people and I've ended up being here over 2 years. I've settled into life here, but now because of Malcolm Tunrbulls decision my life is upside down.

I feel like the last 2 years have been a complete waste of time and money!

So similar to yours. Our MA submitted everything (company, myself, and dependents') close to 7 months ago with no updates after the CO assignment, insurance, and medical since January, the timeline keeps moving with no feedback (even a rejection or request for additional docs would've been better, I think) from IMMI. Now my nominated occupation isn't in the list.

Because of the application, I couldn't renew my ETA visitor visa to attend meetings with buyers and business partners in Oz as well, I usually visit Mel/Syd 3-4x a year and our company have missed out on 2 deals with our local Aus partners, unfortunately.

Took my wife and kid for 3 week holiday in Mel/Syd last June and they loved it, unfortunately, at least in the short-term, migrating is out of the question now with my age creeping up to the limit hehe.

According to many MA, if you lodged before the announcement, then you fall under the old 457 rules. However, as the new rule will be in place next year (March), unless you've already completed your 2-year 457 obligation, after Mar 18, you'll be following the new TSS rules and the 457 no longer applies when you apply for a PR. So if you apply for your PR before March 2018, you'll be fine (assuming your employer sponsors), if not, and you're not in the SOL (or whatever the 4-year TSS Occupation List is called now), then you don't have a pathway for PR and you can only renew once for an additional 2 year stay.

11 hours ago, Phoenix16 said:

I would say, and its been the case for a while, that you would never sell up and move here 'lock stock and barrel' on a 457.  We actually arrived here on a 457, but with no previous inclination to ever emigrate to OZ, husband was headhunted for a fantastic project, it was just the next career move for him that would eventually lead to others, wherever in the world.  However, we fell in love with Australia and gained PR within 12 months, accelerated route on the 457 at that time (2010).  We were completely ignorant of 457 rules and very naive, just came for the adventure, we were extremely lucky (although largely due to husbands skills and talent).  We didn't sell the UK home, but everything happened in a whirlwind, I see now 457's seem to take quite a while to process whereas then, for us it took 3 days from applying to being granted.  I have always championed 457 visa holders, it was the best thing that happened to us but I have also seen how it has changed over the years since and I would never ever recommend anyone to enter into one lightly, especially with children and especially if you see it as a permanent route, it just simply isnt that anymore.  However, based on my own experiences I have great empathy for those currently on 457's, I wish you the best but for those in the UK, if you see this a permanent move then maybe the best thing to do is apply for the permanent visa and save yourself future stress and pain xxxx

This summarizes most mid-career family units' plans, myself included. We haven't heard from our MA yet as to what our options are, but if my occupation only lands in the Short Term 2-year list, then 99% we'll continue our residency here in Singapore (I hold a UK passport, however) and see where it goes.

@millski88 This line is what I was pointing out - For ENS 186 and RSMS 187 visas, only applications lodged on or after 19 April with be affected

Which would mean, 457 hoping for ENS186 and 187 in the future will be affected, right? We'd love to hear from any additional inside/expert inputs you may have, by the way. It'd help a lot of us out. Thanks for the well-wishes, by the way. Cheers. - Dave

3 hours ago, millski88 said:

I'm concerned your post may apply unnecessary worry and stress to existing 457 holders.

Please consider that we currently don't have any evidence suggesting that existing 457 holders' path to PR will be altered, and we do actually have a lot of info to support the contrary. 

Tom.

@millski88 : Frankly, I don't think it's unnecessary but just facts 457 applicants/holders like myself who truly has intention to reside in Aus long-term after we've fulfilled our 457 obligations to Aus and the company who sponsored us, particularly if, like myself, is assigned to build up a multi-million business expansion for our MNC which includes hiring local talent to solidify our business activities Down Under have to face and decide upon.

The 457-to-PR path has definitely been altered with the new 2-year, 1-time renewal only with no PR transition short term visa, it's clearly stated. Not to mention that if the 457 is still under process and your occupation was scrapped, your application will have to be withdrawn and refunded.

Quoting from a migration website:

Quote

Employer sponsored visas

457 visas are the most greatly affected; those whose applications have not already been granted may be affected. For ENS 186 and RSMS 187 visas, only applications lodged on or after 19 April with be affected. For all three subclasses, we can expect the following:

Temporary 457 Visa

Those who have already been granted their 457 visas will not be affected. Unfortunately, those who applied before 19 April 2017 but have not yet been granted their visa will still be affected by the changes.

Such unfinalised applications that are based on a removed occupation will not be successful. Applicants will need to withdraw their applications and will receive a refund on the application fees.

Other unfinalised applications and applications made after 19 April 2017 for eligible occupations (MLTSSL and STSOL) will have these new changes will apply.

• Applications for occupations with caveats will have special conditions that must be fulfilled, certain occupations are only restricted to regional areas
• Applications for occupations that are on the MLTSSL will be valid for 4 years
• Applications for occupations that are on the STSOL will be valid for 2 years with no permanent residency option

@MaggieMay24 - Precisely... It matters a great deal, especially after 2018

@John Taggart - Fingers crossed, best of luck and congrats with the baby as well.

@VERYSTORMY - Fair point, however, just like contractual hiring in companies, most temps transitioning to permanent is a norm and makes business sense for both parties. But I do get your point.

@Robbouk - It's a conundrum indeed as many opted to move, study, work in AUS because of a better family-unit lifestyle.

As abrupt as Turnbull's new 457 changes are to those planning to apply for 457, I think the changes are causing more stress and concern to existing 457 holders/applicants looking to stay permanently in Aus via one of the 3 PR visas available.

With the modified 2-year, short term occupation list, over 200 occupations are no longer available and even those that remained will only have one on-shore renewal available with no PR route.

Question/survey is, how are these changes affecting your decision to stay in Aus or becoming an Australian citizen?

Are you already looking at possibilities of relocating or moving back to your previous country of residence?

Particularly for those over 40 and/or with families.

Trying to see others' viewpoints and options that we (as individuals) might not have thought of.

7 hours ago, OJT said:

I am in discussions with an employer right now and this news today has thrown the whole thing into disarray. I know he will not want to waste his time and money if I can only stay for 2 years (my job is now on the STSOL), however if I can't somehow apply for PR I'm not going to uproot the kids and give up a good job in the UK. I wonder if anyone has answers to these questions?:

1) Am I right in assuming that there is no PR stream option with the new 2 year visa, only the 4 year? 

2) Under the new scheme, how much does the now one and only on shore 457 renewal cost?

3) Assuming all goes well, and we decide we want to stay, can I apply for a 186 visa onshore whilst still working under the second 457?

My agent is also looking into these questions for me, but like most he is inundated at the moment so thought I'd ask you lovely people. I'm trying to stay positive and find other ways to make this work, but I'm not sure how Mr Turnbull thinks he'll get the "best and the brightest" of any industry if they can only stick around for a couple of years? I'm sure he thinks he knows what he's doing.

Thanks.

Currently on the same boat as well, and frankly, the MA is still scrambling to analyze what the short and long term options are with the 457 that has been in process for the past 6 mos for me and my family.

My occupation now falls under the short term 2-year list and I'm also in mid-upper management, looking to develop our MNC's business in AUS but also to settle in AUS for good. Tried going the 190 route before but it wasn't an option due to CSOL opening opportunities, and fortunate enough that the company is willing to transfer and relocate me to Oz.

Currently 41yo with a wife and son (13) as dependent and unsure whether it's still logical to move down-under.

With the new system, it'd seem like there's no possible options to get a PR since the occupation only falls under the 2+2 year term.

Sigh

1 hour ago, imthedave said:

 

As I said, we are a specialist foreign company and there are no local technologies even similar.
It's our internal policy to appoint the most senior person in an organisation from within the Group as it's a trusted position. We also did labour test the market and really had no suitable candidates.
I may not have specific qualifications but I've been in this position for 12 years, 8 of which with this one company.
According to the requirements, specific experience counts as qualification.

My worry is the renewal and the age limitation now.
It used to be 50.




Sent using Poms in Oz mobile app

 

According to the border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Age-Skill-and-English-Language-Exemptions-Permanent-Employer-Sponsored-Programme (can't post link yet)

Age exemptions

On 25 June 2013 exemptions for age were expanded with a view to creating greater flexibility to applicants who meet the specified criteria for exemption.

Applicants must be less than 50 years of age or exempt. Exemptions are now available to applicants who are either:

• nominated as a senior academic by a university in Australia
• nominated as a scientist, researcher or technical specialist by an Australian government scientific agency, including State and Territory government scientific agencies
• applying through the Temporary Residence Transition stream, who have been working for their nominating employer as the holder of a subclass 457 visa for the last four years and whose earnings were at least equivalent to the Fair Work Australia High Income Threshold* for each year over that period

* The current Fair Work Australia High Income Threshold is AUD138 900, as at 1 July 2016.

13 minutes ago, Alan Collett said:

"Clients who lodged subclass 457 nomination and visa applications prior to the Government’s announcement for occupations now no longer approved for the purposes of the programme, which remain on hand, will be given the opportunity to withdraw their applications and a refund provided."

From a communication received in the last 45 minutes.

Best regards.

Dang, that's tough.

I've been waiting for my 457 for close to 7mos so far (both company and myself are 1st time applicants) and not sure how much additional delays this change will bring. While it's mainly a inter-company transfer, it's still hard to make a decision whether or not to PR in Aus in 3 years' time.

List is out!
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Skills-assessment-and-assessing-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists

MLTSSL (previously SOL)

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Skills-assessment-and-assessing-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/mltssl

STSOL (previously CSOL)
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Skills-assessment-and-assessing-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/combined-stsol-mltssl

Removed occupations

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Skills-assessment-and-assessing-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/removed-skilled-occupations

These 3 points are quite significant, I think.

 

• capacity for only one onshore visa renewal under the Short-Term stream
• capacity for visa renewal onshore and a permanent residence pathway after three years under the Medium-Term stream
• the permanent residence eligibility period will be extended from two to three years

6 Mos so far in my case. First time applicant for both company and myself. Might be more stringent in our case as the company has been operating in Aus with no employees (all 3rd party partners like sales agents, accounting services, etc.) for 2 years, but only had employee #1 (a local GM) last Jan.

Both company and I are first time applicants for 457... 

It's been 6mos and counting... No news, just In Process. Sigh