MacGyver

13 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

Exactly right - the UK's approach is proportionate to the risk and does not treat everyone like potential criminals.  I think the threat of a 5000 pound fine would be enough to stop anyone making a false declaration.

 I am currently undertaking 10 days isolation in my parents' home in Wales.  I have not left the house/garden since arriving and have not been tempted really to do so.  Why the majority have to suffer for the misdeeds of a few in Australia is beyond me. Friends of ours returned from Italy to Australia with Covid in March 2020 and managed to successfully self-isolate without infecting anyone else.  Their son moved out before they arrived and they did not see anyone until they both produced two negative Covid tests each. The Australian government should at least consider using tracking devices to keep the cost and stress of quarantine down. 

 I have taken my Day 2 Covid test (negative - surprise, surprise) and will do Day 8 tomorrow.  Interestingly, the Covid test goes by priority post to Milton Keynes and I got my results by email in less than 12 hours.  The results of the Australian pre-travel equivalent that cost me $150 and where the distance from test centre to lab was approximately 30km was supposed to arrive by email within 24 hours but took 36 hours.  Surprising, seeing as how few of these tests are actually required to be processed due to travel restrictions. 

The broadband here in rural Wales is amazing too.  I did Zoom church here on Sunday and the picture and sound quality was 10x better than what I get doing Zoom church in SEQ. 

To summarise, everything Uk is fantastic, everything Australian is awful.

You make some interesting points worth debating, but they are lost and obscured by emotive language and negativity. It is possible to love the UK without the need to insult Australia to justify your position. 

The last Covid test I had in WA (due to having a cold) was undertaken at a drive through facility around midday and the results sent by sms around 7.30pm that same day (7.5 hours turnaround).

Electronic tagging is certainly a good option, although it can only tell you that the person is at home, it cannot tell you if anyone is visiting the home that could go on to spread the virus.

I currently receive download speeds of 253Mbps with iinet (at last speed test). I used to stream comfortably at 50Mbps with no issue so this current trial is more than I could ever need.

I do not feel like a criminal, I am able to work, play, eat, drink, meet friends, attend sporting events and concerts with tens of thousands of people and travel across a continent unrestricted and free from danger of ill health. If international travel is still restricted next year (when the population is vaccinated) then I will start to agree with your assessment on that aspect and agitate for change.

14 minutes ago, Member2021 said:

Hi Paul, I appreciate your help. I will definitely be doing that.

Do you have any suggestions on a good immigration lawyer or agent that has experience with this matter?

 

I wanted to see if anyone has been through a similar experience that can shed some light in the matter. I also thought it may serve to waiting on the notification to engage some professional help.

Paul is a migration agent - the link in his signature will take you to his website where you can initiate discussions.

13 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

No fuses in Aus plugs.

MArissa had said she remembered having to open up plugs often as a kid but couldn't remember why - which was in Scotland I think - so wondered if it was to change the fuse back then

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I wouldn't expect it to be a "common" cause of fires these days, because I think it's far less common to change plugs on appliances these days.  In fact, I'm trying to remember why it was such a common thing when I was a kid...

Opening them up to change the fuse?

Just another point - you may find living over here that you dont care about the beach as much as you thought you would. Some people live on the beach and go almost every day (like Paul above), whereas others only go occasionally and it doesnt feature in their lives. I currently live a 10 minute walk/few minutes drive from the beach and through the whole of summer I went to the beach zero times. It's still nice to walk/jog past, but so are rivers and lakes, so its worth keeping an open mind and renting for a while when you arrive, to see what day to life is really like for you and whether you need a beachside price tage for your home. 

8 hours ago, Loopylu said:

I don’t see any UNHCR citations of fundamental human rights law breaches for the UK in your post.  The UK does not lock up genuine refugees indefinitely. 
The UK is not perfect but the fact you could pull up those reports shows that issues are not swept under the carpet as they are by the Australian media. People in Australia (including British immigrants) have no conscience and so long as they are OK, they wash their hands of their responsibilities towards the rest of the world and those less fortunate than themselves.
As for me relocating to the UK, I would love nothing more but my children are at uni/late high school and my Australian husband is about to start dialysis. Hardly the time to up sticks or are you suggesting I abandon them? It’s typical Aussie to just trot out the ‘if you don’t love it, leave’. 

Australia’s record on treatment of refugees is appalling, I agree. What I’m saying is the UK also has failings and those reports into the Uk resulted from a UN investigation, not a voluntary admission from the UK government. 

To say all Australians and all British migrants living in Australia have no conscience is of course nonsense. As I have said before, I empathise with your current situation, but you appear to be misdirecting your grief into a rage at Australia and anyone who has the audacity to live there. Grief is hard and overwhelming, but it is not a valid reason to insult others. Like alcohol, social media is often best avoided when angry.

4 hours ago, Loopylu said:

You are exactly right.  Also, when Covid started the UK was still part of the EU and it would have been illegal to close the borders to people from Europe. Unlike Australia, the UK abides by its international and domestic legal commitments.  The UNHCR regularly cites Australia as being in violation of human rights treaties it has signed around treatment of refugees, freedom to cross borders and charging foreign residents for accessing public education.  Australia is a law unto itself, which as a lawyer who has a duty to uphold the law, I find deeply disturbing.

A number of European countries closed their borders while part of the EU.

The UKs reputation is not unblemished when it comes to honouring international treaties:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/15/world/europe/northern-island-great-britain.html

Similarly, although you mentioned refugees specifically, the UKs reputation with regards to principles enshrined in other UN conventions is far from perfect:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/un-poverty-austerity-uk-universal-credit-report-philip-alston-a8924576.html

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/may/uk-violating-its-human-rights-obligations-finds-un-poverty-expert

4 hours ago, Loopylu said:

I don't agree  with you that ScoMo was setting an example. The Queen (who as far as I am aware is still Australia's head of state) had her vaccine (and owing to her age (over 90) it was right that she was an early uptaker). There was no need for ScoMo to do it. They could have asked John Howard to step in.  ScoMo and his ilk look after number one first and they know how to "spin" a situation to their advantage....

I think very few people are motivated by the queens actions outside England. Scott Morrison did the same as numerous elected leaders around the world to try and demonstrate confidence in the vaccines. It may not have been particularly effective but it seems harsh to judge him on it when others have done the same.

4 hours ago, Loopylu said:

Australia is also cutting Jobkeeper at the end of this month when there are still numerous people whose jobs will not return for months, maybe, years.  My Sister in Law works for Qantas international and she will lose all income on 31 March. She would love Qantas to make her redundant so that she has some money to live on while (at age 60 and with a mortgage) she tries to find other work but Qantas won't because she may be still needed, who knows when.

 

Australia’s unemployment rate has dropped below the pre Covid unemployment rate. Ending jobseeker will have an impact, but it is difficult to justify maintaining it given these figures.

Would this be of benefit to your sister, ongoing government funding to maintain jobs for those employed by Qantas:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-19/international-qantas-workers-500-week-coronavirus-payment/13261910

Australia and the UK are wealthy and safe countries. Neither is perfect and one isn’t better than the other. If you are deeply unhappy living in one of them, it may be an idea to live in the other. 

34 minutes ago, Parley said:

Has anyone ever suggested that quarantine arrangements will continue forever ? Or are we making a fuss about nothing ?

There was a comment about lockdowns for the first half of the decade, then a few comments about when might be the right time to reopen. I was replying to those comments. I am supportive of the closed borders and quarantine arrangements at present, just thinking out loud about what might lie ahead, rather than making a fuss.

28 minutes ago, Parley said:

Is quarantine that bad ? A small issue i would think.

In the short term, no. It’s absolutely necessary and vital to keep people in Australia safe. Over the longer term, when everyone is vaccinated, it seems unsustainable. The only way would be to build huge camps outside cities to accommodate the volume of returning citizens/residents and visitors, or adopt a technology based approach to “home” monitoring - but how many visitors/business travellers can afford two weeks quarantine before their visit even begins?

1 hour ago, Loopylu said:

I think it is unnecessary how horrible NicF was in her assessment of my situation and her absolute lack of sympathy - hence my snide reference to her lack of expertise in English.  I am not delighting in the pathetic Aussie vaccine roll out.  Instead, I am both sad and angry about this. Why should ScoMo who is fit and healthy get his dose before my 58 year old husband (end stage kidney disease), the very elderly and other chronically ill people in Australia?  Boris Johnson is only getting his AZ vaccine this week as he has waited his turn, allocated by age and health condition to get his dose. 

Australia has its priorities skewed in my view, putting the welfare of the rich, elite and Australian born ahead of the masses.

There are counter points to much of what you say, but it would be drifting off topic and wouldn’t be helpful to you. I do wish you well in making it home to your family.

9 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

I am not cross. Just very sad.  If you have not been through this type of gut wrenching experience then you cannot really judge. I have work colleagues who have had to make the very difficult decision not to be with dying parents due to the travel restrictions and my heart aches for them.  Hopefully you never have to go through this and, if you do, people are a bit nicer to you.

Also, it's "borders", not "boarders".

Australia and NZ could easily close borders due to not being a major transit hub.  Of course, everyone ignores that fact when bigging up how well Australia and NZ has done on managing Covid.  Not doing so well on the vaccine roll out though, eh!

  

It sounds like you’ve had a terrible time and it must be awful, you have my sympathies and condolences. I do though think your understandable emotions are spilling over into your posts.

I am not trying to diminish how awful this situation has been and currently is, but relishing in people not yet being vaccinated (and at risk of death) and highlighting grammar/spelling issues is unnecessary. 

I hope you get home to your family soon and can start grieving this terrible loss with their support.

9 hours ago, paulhand said:

But that would also require a 2 tier system for returning residents who have been in ‘unsafe’ countries, which they may care about somewhat more.  The vaccines are not full-proof and there will be vaccine resistant strains out in the wild. Testing is not 100% accurate at all phases either. 
 

As @Jon the Hat says, if you’re one of the, say, 5% (so, over 1 million Australians + however many visitors that equals) who the vaccine doesn’t work for, and you’re travelling freely, how does that fit with the zero Covid strategy? Maybe that number is reduced by testing pre and post arrival, but it never gets to zero carriers out in society. 
 

Just as we accept flu deaths and, indeed, traffic accident deaths as the price of a ‘normal’ life, what level of covid is society prepared to accept going forward as the price of opening up? I don’t have an answer but I’m surprised that there is so little discussion of this ... 

I agree with almost everything you have said here. I’ve been a very strong supporter of the zero Covid strategy up to this point (and for the rest of this year) as I felt the benefits of closed borders and the risks of opening up were too great. 

By year end, all Australians who want a vaccine will have had one (or two), and at that point I feel the benefit of closed borders and the risk to society from open borders, will be greatly diminished.

If the vaccines perform as intended, Covid will become a mild infection that is not life threatening to the majority of the population (much like seasonal flu). It is difficult to justify keeping borders closed in that scenario. With ongoing seasonal boosters for emerging strains, and possibly vaccination passports (a whole other debate), the risk to the population would surely be low? Yes there will still be deaths, but as you say, at some point difficult discussions will be required as to how many deaths are acceptable.

2 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Several "quarantine hotels" are currently negotiating 12 month contracts with some State governments.......

I’m surprised to hear this, I wonder if there will be a two tier policy for visitors to Australia (when all Australians are vaccinated). No quarantine for those from “safe” countries with high vaccination rates (and where the visitor is vaccinated), and quarantine for those from higher risk countries with low vaccination rates and/or visitors who are not vaccinated.

I think there will be huge pressure by year end to allow Australians to travel back and forth freely. The public seem to view vaccination as the end game for cooperation with ongoing restrictions. I suspect if Australians can travel freely, they won’t care much about a two tier visitor policy.

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

That is good to know thanks.  Yeah I think any quarantine change is likely to be later.  Cheers.

The WA state election is also on Saturday, which labour is expected to win. It’s possible that some Covid support that was kept in place pre election might fade quickly after the election, which could again open up the rental market somewhat.

Very hard to predict though as pre Covid the real estate market was very flat and predicted to drop 30%, then Covid led to an  unexpected boom, rental vacancy shortage and a predicted 30% hike over the next year. The next few months will be telling, so if you’re coming in September you’ll have time to weigh things up.
 

Some properties on Airbnb also advertise on booking dot com. We’ve started booking holidays on there as you often find ‘book now, pay nothing, free cancellation’ properties, which offers some safety in the current Covid climate. There’s not as much choice in there and it’s not as cheap as Airbnb but it might allow you to book something now, risk free for a 6 weeks stay and then cancel later/change the booking free of charge if the market cools and you don’t think you’ll need more than 4 weeks accommodation on arrival.

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Perth, I keep hearing this, but not sure if is the case for more expensive properties?  

My other slight worry now is that Quarantine rules might change for vaccinated travellers, then my accommodation will start 2 weeks too late!!

There’s no indication quarantine will be different for vaccinated travellers. Quarantine will possibly change after the Australian population is vaccinated, which was originally scheduled for October but scott Morrison has recently admitted that timeline isn’t achievable.

The rental market is indeed very, very hot just now. I would personally book at least 4-6 weeks to give you time to find a rental, especially as a new arrival. Having said that, the eviction ban is scheduled to expire end of March so the rental market could in theory ease a little.

Just as a counterbalance to the above posts, a long holiday (when covid passes) might be a good first step. It may confirm that its where you want to be, but equally, a holiday can bring a touch of reality to the dream and you might realise you are happy to leave again.

I often read of people leaving the UK or Aus, and then pining for the place they left. Sometimes I think it's a bit like an ex-partner, over time you forget the negatives and only remember the good bits in a nostalgic way. 

Good luck with whatever you decide

10 hours ago, Tmduk said:

I can recommend myself...as a professional beer drinker 

Were you drinking beer when you posted this?

2 hours ago, calNgary said:

I haven't looked into the Canberra area but have read on here its quite fierce. My son is looking for a new rental at the moment and each property is getting around 60 applicants, its gone crazy since the Covid Lockdowns.

  Cal x

A new thread on the reasons behind the rental market explosion, and property price boom, would make for interesting reading. I understand it to a point, but it’s gone absolutely crazy.

On 03/03/2021 at 19:39, tonks said:

Hi everyone, 

We told our family yesterday of our plans and were pleased everyone responded positively and even said they'd visit (still not convinced they will)! Husband's skills assessment goes off today to and he's booking his English test. I know that everything is so uncertain with Covid but it makes me feel better that we're actively doing what we can!

I have a few 'random questions' though if anyone would oblige, posting here as the topics are quite broad

• Beds - we have 2 double and a king size bed, can we ship our mattresses/bedding and is it worth it or are the bed sizes completely different? We are getting a container anyway as have just bought beautiful sofas so not worried about using the space, just practicalities. 
• Air B&B - anyone have success with a 4-6 week let whilst waiting for container to arrive/house hunting?
• Spiders (sorry!) - realistically, so I can prepare myself, are we likely to be encountering large/dangerous spiders on a daily basis/weekly/monthly? Do we need to sleep with one eye open? Are we going to have to inspect each room before we enter it for the rest of our lives? Basically, is it as bad as my UK friends are making out? 
• How you make it safe to leave furniture/play equipment outdoors? Is that not a spider trap? Will we need to bug spray/inspect whenever we want to use our outdoor items?
• Finally, clothing - as a fashion conscious 30 year old, am I better off stocking up on warm weather clothes and taking them across in the container? Or will I have access to enough up-to-date (English standard) shops? 

Is there anything else you wish you'd have thought of that we should be thinking of? 

Sorry, I know it's a few things at once, I'm a worrier! Thank you!!

Spiders - I see them as often here as I did in Scotland. Bug spray the house every 6 months and the only ones you’ll see are dead ones. We also give a quick spray around the outdoor furniture every 6 months but probably don’t need to. Wear gloves when gardening and you’ll be fine. You might come to like spiders though, given they feast on other bugs like mosquitoes. Don’t stick your hand in any dark holes and they probably won’t bother you at all. I stupidly used to check the bed every night when I first arrived, now if I see what might be a spider I ignore it or squish it with my foot. 

Clothes - I can’t imagine you’ll ever wear your Uk winter clothes on the Sunshine Coast, but if you visit more southerly cities in winter (eg Melbourne) they’ll come in handy so take them. You’ll probably want some shopping trips to Melbourne and Sydney through the year for your clothing.

I'm sure it's not the norm, but recently someone posted on a facebook group to say that they were having a baby and applied for an exemption for their mother to enter on a tourist visa and it was granted. I don't know the specifics of their situation obviously, but they figured if you dont ask you dont get, and it was granted at the third attempt. If I was in the OP's shoes I would probably assume it won't happen and plan accordingly, but would also roll the dice and apply for an exemption because there's nothing to lose in doing so. Getting a flight over/taking the place of a citizen/PR on a flight who is trying to get home is a whole other debate.

1 hour ago, llessur said:

@MacGyver It looks like you had a nice trip! What time did you take those photos by the way? Everything looks a bit on the empty side

I think you're right in your observations above. I loved Perth when we were there and almost moved to Freo after a month-long stay nearly became permanent somewhat by accident but have also found Adelaide a great mid-sized city to be living in - especially now we've got kids. There's lots to do and yet nothing's too far away. I'd much rather be 5 minutes outside of Adelaide than 40 minutes outside of Melbourne.

We did lose a lot of great architecture back here in the 60s and 70s but a fairly prominent heritage protection movement grew in the 70s/80s so much has also been spared since then. I love wandering round the CBD looking at the buildings - there are some great hidden gems down laneways and side streets and I'm sure there are some guided history and architecture walks you can go on too. Saying that, we also seem to have had a mini boom of 100m+ buildings in the last 5 years or so, so things are also moving upwards.

I feel Port Adelaide could eventually end up something like Freo - it has massive of heritage buildings still intact, mainly because it suffered economically in the 60s/70s/80s and so nothing was ripped down for new development. Now it's starting to be revived and has got great potential to be something special. The forthcoming frigate and submarine building is supposed to be a catalyst for that - and there have already been some new hotels, pubs and breweries popping up - so fingers crossed on that front...

Ha I wasn't trying to make it look empty I promise! Most of the photos would have been in the morning or when cafe's were just setting up, when everyone was at work/didn't have time to aimlessly wander like I did. The weather was also a bit grey and cold which possibly reduced numbers, apparently the week prior had been sunny and in the 30's so we just timed it badly, but if you like a city when its cold (ish) and grey then you'll definitely like it when its sunny and warm. We'll definitely have another longer visit to Adelaide in the future, its a nice city with a lot going on and its proximity to other cities (relatively speaking) is one major advantage it has over Perth. 

4 hours ago, Dreambig1 said:

Thanks so much for your thoughtful replies. I know without doubt my siblings will support my choice ( they’ve seen the impact living in the uk has had on my husbands mental health )  and I fully anticipate my parents encouraging me to go still - in fact they’ve prob held off tellin me so as not to disrupt my plans however things at the weekend meant we had to call them out on dads condition ... my DH’s Father was diagnosed with cancer two months after we moved to uk in 2005 and he spent fours years talking to him every day and travelling home 2-3 times a year. His biggest regret is not returning to oz to care for him and now doesn’t want to go through it again if/ when his mother gets sick . I know he’d never demand I stick to our plans but I just can’t see how I can wave everyone off to go and live my best life by the beach when I know 10000 miles away my dear dad is slipping away.. I feel a sad and unbelievably torn 

If you decide to go, it's not to have a wonderful holiday by the beach while things get tough at home. You would be moving to work and live in another country because you think it's best for your kids. I think framing it as running off on holiday will just increase your understandable feelings of guilt, but framing it as seeking the best life for your children, as your parents did for you, makes a very hard decision slightly easier. Its a very hard decision, but I do feel that we have to live our lives in a 'selfish' way and do what is best for us and our family, as nobody else can do that for us. Your parents lived their lives and did what they felt was right for them and their children, now it's your turn to do whats right for you and your children (whatever that may be - UK or Aus).

If I was in your shoes, I would go, but I would do so with the plan to have regular visits home (2 weeks each year given the circumstances), as difficult financially as that may be (post covid of course when international travel is open). As others have said, your dad may be fine for many years and if they were able to visit you, those regular in person contacts may help you feel slightly better. I would also get a credit card or savings account with 5k in it and never touch it, to be used if you need to get home quickly down the line. All migrants have the fear of the need to get those flights, unfortunately it comes with the territory. 

16 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Perth has resurrected a few over the last few years. The Treasury Hotel is really well done. My Sis and her fella stayed there when they were here on holiday a couple of years back. 

Great pool and gym on the top floor, wouldn't know it was there from street level. Mind you we never saw anyone using either when we went up a couple of times, I don't think the clientele are the type for gyms and pools.

Couple more, same era have been resurrected too. Printworks, the old Brewery on the river. Subi has some nice old buildings and there are a few art deco cinemas around.

The Treasury/State Buildings are magnificent, inside and out. A perfect blend of old and new. A lot of Perth’s heritage buildings can be found outside the city due to the way the area was colonised/developed. Fremantle has an abundance of smaller heritage buildings as does Guildford.