Fisher1

6 hours ago, MaggieMay24 said:

Can I suggest that discussion on Pensions be moved to the Money & Finance section of the forum:  https://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/7-money-finance/

This section of the forum is more specifically for visa topics.

agreed

Hi all

Can anyone tell me whether the Aus tax office send out tax returns automatically, or do you have to ask for / download one ?

9 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Figure is wrong, it's about £8500pa (£164pw)

 

The full new State Pension is £164.35 per week. The actual amount you get depends on your National Insurance record. The only reasons the amount can be higher are if: you have over a certain amount of Additional State Pension.

Not sure why you have quoted me? My post was about the lower amount still received by the majority of pensioners, i.e. 6400 or so for up to 44 years contributions. I think your post was more relevent to Ferrets?

10 hours ago, Ferrets said:

My numbers were a bit simplistic, and were admittedly based only on the new pension.  For those retiring before 2016 the contributions made would typically have been at a different average salary - but will park that one.

Certainly agree that there is trouble brewing though!

 

 

No they would not be typically average salary. Since the vast majority of people currently receiving pensions will at present be on theold system, the average salary of pension recipients will not have changed much. I agree that will change as more people retire but at this point your figures are not simplistic they are incorrect, because you have based them on the assumption that the new flat rate is received by most people - it isnt!

On ‎08‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 18:57, Ferrets said:

The politics of the UK state pension are a mess, and the politicians duck and weave to avoid proper discussion on the topic.

But language aside the mechanics are clearly a benefit; contribution is measured in years and not value and therefore you can get much more or indeed much less than is contributed - it's worth bearing in mind that NI is also supposed to fund the NHS; 

1. The UK average salary is £27,600 which means NI of approximately £2,200 p.a. to fund pension & NHS,
2. 35 years of contributions (under new state pension rules) = £77,000. 
3. At a full payment of £164.35 per week that means an annual pension of £8,546.20
4. Assuming no contribution to the NHS this means that on average the NI contributions over a working life will pay for 9 years pension.

The maths of this show clearly this is a benefit as on average the payments in are being topped up in a manner that significantly outperforms the market.

You make the point that it is a legal right - and in fact that highlights it is a benefit as you are wrong - whilst it is a right at the moment it could be withdrawn by the government or slashed / ages moved by act of Parliament and has no permanent guarantee.  You can see the move for auto enrolment is the first step to the abolition of the state pension, which will be gone before I retire.  They can't do that to a defined contribution pension (at least not anything that has been paid in up to any point of change).

It's been deceitful of governments of all colour for the way that they have approached this, and I think the issue of unfunded liabilities for the UK is a trainwreck that is still unfolding (Pensions, PFI, etc.) and will be a true blight on future generations in the UK.

Not everyone will get the full (new) pension … there's already a scandal brewing about the public being mislead on that score. 

All the UK citizens beginning their pension before 2016 who are receiving a full pension (i.e. the vast majority) get around 6,400  per year. So your points above are inaccurate. Ignoring the facts doesn't make them go away. 

On ‎12‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 03:57, Davo453 said:

We lived in WA for many years and always had cats and basically never really saw a cockroach in or around the house.

I do however remember lifting a soakwell lid and discovering literary hundreds in there feeding on the leaf litter, they are everywhere the chemicals used to kill them worry me more than the problem.

Now ants there's a different story....

Strangely enough, we've followed advice we found on google ( and here, thanks Tea4two)  and haven't seen one for months. No the advice was not to burn the house down  

10 hours ago, Pertenhall said:

Thank you.  We're still working n trying to get that interview, hopefully it will happen soon.  To hear that people are getting some good news is so good after such a long wait.  It really lifts the spirits.

Just to say I'm crossing my fingers that you will hear something soon - it's been such a long wait for you. 

12 hours ago, Merryweather said:

Hi Mike and Ant, Congrats!

Got our 2nd request, too! Couldn't believe it! Hands shaking! 

After 1st July. 

Has anyone ever NOT received visa after this stage. 

  Congrats … and as for the possibility of anyone NOT receiving visa at this stage … God forbid!!!

17 hours ago, ant111 said:

Got the email.request for second payment and itinerary. Visa to be issued after 1st July, when they get cheque and within 3 days of being offshore. 

The meditation must have worked....pom. lol

Congratulations!   Enjoy New Zealand / Bali/ wherever .. we had a nice six days in Auckland ...

2 hours ago, Ferrets said:

I think that the advent of auto enrolment means that the UK is already on the path for the abolition of the pension in it's current form to move to an Australian system whereby you pay into your own named account and then a state pension is means tested.

Not sure how quickly it will happen but definitely on the way!

The problem with this is that the UK gov has already spent God knows how much 'simplifying' (!) the current system. Not quite sure if they'll have the will to make further changes after their rabbit in the headlights routine with Brexit. Roll on the next election!

2 hours ago, ant111 said:

Thanks, but they said getting another assurer was faster than getting a letter so we knew someone and went with that to satisrfy them. If we couldn't easily get another assurer and had confidence in them we would have got a letter from an accountant or employer. Thanks again anyway.

No probs, I just thought it may be another avenue if getting another assurer was difficult. I remember the process as one of the most stressful of my life - constantly thinking we'd cracked it and then finding another tack under our wheels!  We got here in the end, hope you get here soon. It really was worth all the hassle!

We should all boycott Amazon. If their sales in Aus dropped to zero or just above, they'd soon have a re-think!

On 8 June 2018 at 17:27, Marisawright said:

We're talking about two totally different things here.   I am talking about the misconception that the UK pension is something you pay into, therefore you have a right to get that money (and its profits) back.  My cousins are getting their knickers in a knot because of that perception, because they feel the UK government is stealing their money.  It's not.  Why you should get offended because I criticise the government for not increasing the contributions beats me.

I am not  disputing your right, or anyone else's to claim the pension which you have a legal right to claim (though the legal name for it, by the way, is a "contributory benefit").   I am not aware of anyone rubbishing people's credit ratings.

Can  I draw your attention to the last paragraph of your post (above) and to the comment (below)  which you made several posts ago?

"You are absolutely right, but talk to the average Brit and they don't see it like that.......  Look at xxxxxx. and @Fisher1's responses above - both believe they have paid into the pension and are therefore entitled to it."

The pension is officially called a "contributory benefit" you are right - its a title that's been hotly disputed for decades. 

On 8 June 2018 at 21:34, ant111 said:

We was told it was because she put a tax return in for her mat year they had to use that year. Then they said the quickest way to resolve it was to get a co assurer . I recommend you confirm everything. Call again and perhaps ask an agent.

My daughte was on mat leave and got her accountant to send a letter stating that her normal annual income was X amount per annum and they accepted it. This was two years ago though before the AOS approval turned into another waiting list - If you could find out whether they would accept such a letter it would save you trying to find a co-assurer. good luck!

On 8 June 2018 at 19:56, LindaH27 said:

@Ferrets the U.K. NI contribution rate is 12%

Employers  also pay in for every employee as well -  I believe that is 13.8%?

So there's a fair bit going in for every person who pays in which will increase the number of years pension is paid for. Given that not all people survive that long some may in fact not receive what they've paid for and their contributions will go towards funding other people's 

It also sounds as though Australians are also not paying  in enough according to your figures and wonder how how much the "average" pension is in Australia given full UK pension is £8546 pa

 

Im sure I read somewhere that Australian means tested pension is claimable if your  income as a single  person is below approx $55000?  That sounds way more generous for your 9.5% contribution than £8546 for UK 12% contribution!! 

I'm not an accountant so obviously my figures are just based on my musings!! 

Actually the amount of the "full" UK pension depends on when you were born. Given the current governments reshuffling of the state pesnion, people taking their pension after 2016 get a larger weekly sum than those already drawing state pension. People already drawing their state pension get a smaller amount. The smaller "full" pension varies according to your potential past payments into the graduated pension scheme. If you have paid the right amount to get a full pension (i.e. Anything between 44 years and thirty five years, depending on whether there was an 'R' in the month) you get about £6500 a year. The creation of a two tier system vis the new 'flat rate' pension has apparently simplified everything.

On 8 June 2018 at 18:57, Ferrets said:

The politics of the UK state pension are a mess, and the politicians duck and weave to avoid proper discussion on the topic.

But language aside the mechanics are clearly a benefit; contribution is measured in years and not value and therefore you can get much more or indeed much less than is contributed - it's worth bearing in mind that NI is also supposed to fund the NHS; 

1. The UK average salary is £27,600 which means NI of approximately £2,200 p.a. to fund pension & NHS,
2. 35 years of contributions (under new state pension rules) = £77,000. 
3. At a full payment of £164.35 per week that means an annual pension of £8,546.20
4. Assuming no contribution to the NHS this means that on average the NI contributions over a working life will pay for 9 years pension.

The maths of this show clearly this is a benefit as on average the payments in are being topped up in a manner that significantly outperforms the market.

You make the point that it is a legal right - and in fact that highlights it is a benefit as you are wrong - whilst it is a right at the moment it could be withdrawn by the government or slashed / ages moved by act of Parliament and has no permanent guarantee.  You can see the move for auto enrolment is the first step to the abolition of the state pension, which will be gone before I retire.  They can't do that to a defined contribution pension (at least not anything that has been paid in up to any point of change).

It's been deceitful of governments of all colour for the way that they have approached this, and I think the issue of unfunded liabilities for the UK is a trainwreck that is still unfolding (Pensions, PFI, etc.) and will be a true blight on future generations in the UK.

What does "and in fact that highlights it is a benefit as you are wrong" mean please?

On 8 June 2018 at 15:17, Kbobs said:

We will cross that bridge when it comes to it. We will be 9 years remission by then so much further along. Not going to let it put us off. 

Congrats on the visa and you keep on crossing those bridges. My husband was diagnosed with stage four non hodgkins lymphoma in 1981 and finished chemo in 1983. We celebrated our fortieth wedding anniversary in Sydney just six days after being granted our PR parents' visa. There are encouraging stories out there. Wishing you both all the luck in the world in your new venture !

6 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Oh yes I see that now. That's how it works, if you fail the medical you don't get a visa. Not quite sure why she feels she's entitled to use vast amounts of tax payers money to pay for her treatment. 

Obviously the family are ramping up the pathos of this 'injustice' but this is one case that has come into the frame of a public that has little knowledge of the whole parent visa circus. It's patently heartbreaking for her to have to leave now, but you have to take the consequences of your own decisions. She made the decision to come over on a visitors visa and presumably to apply for an onshore PR. She must have known the risk she was taking, So I wonder why she hasn't made an effort to keep up her contacts in the UK. We've all seen people on here who have waited their turn and then had to bow out because they can no longer afford the move. At least this lady has had nine years' residence and the happiness that goes with it.

24 minutes ago, Alan Collett said:

UK pension income is wholly taxable in Australia.

In computing the tax payable you deduct the tax free threshold, which is A$18,200 if you are tax resident for the whole year.

In the year of arrival in Australia: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Ind/Tax-free-threshold-for-newcomers-to-Australia/

You also deduct any Undeducted Purchase Price (UPP) in arriving at the amount that is subject to tax.

Rates of income tax in Australia are here: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/

Hope this helps!

Consider also whether there is merit in transferring monies from your UK pension fund to an Australian superannuation fund if the pension is not already in payment.  

You know how to find me off forum if you need more help and guidance on matters of a tax nature!

Phew!    thanks, I was getting very worried there as we have factored  the 18200 in to our financial planning

9 hours ago, Alan Collett said:

Yes, there is a UPP of 8% on UK State Pensions: https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=TXR/TR9313/NAT/ATO/00001

For other pension income: https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Undeducted-purchase-price-calculator/

Remember that UK pension income is WHOLLY taxable in Australia under the applicable provision of the Tax Treaty once you are a tax resident of Australia and have a permanent residency visa.

Best regards.

 

Hi Alan   

Thanks for clarifying that - but when you say that UK pension income is wholly taxable in Australia, you do mean after the first  18,200$ don't you?

A bit worried!    

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, I know it's because the government told you so. And I'm a Brit too, remember!   I've obviously expressed myself very badly.

I'm not mistaken, because you've just said, above, exactly what I'm saying.  The books don't balance.  People are living longer and therefore, the contributions we paid in during our lifetime (I'm 64) were not enough to fund our long old age.  My cousins are saying, "I paid my money in, now I'm entitled to get it out, so you're robbing me if you increase the pension age".  I think they're wrong, because they (and I) didn't pay in enough to get paid for so many years, and the government is only trying to address that by raising the age.  It's rough on those affected because we all grew up taking the pension for granted, which again is the government's fault for creating that perception.

Hallo again Marisawright, Average Brit here again, 

I have to agree with your earlier post, I rather think you have expressed yourself badly. When I read comments like "It's bleeding obvious that they haven't increased the contributions over the years to what they should be" I do tend to recoil a bit.  Well done for admitting it and apologising.

I tend to think you are not understanding my point. It's about the meaning of the words we use, and the impression that gives to others. The UK state pension may be underfunded, successive governments may have mismanaged it over the years, we may all be creditors of a bankrupt system. However - at this point in time, the UK state pension is a legal right and is not a state benefit and I find it rather annoying to have my credit rating rubbished by people who insist that it is. 

Apologies to everyone else on this (normally very friendly and supportive) thread, who no doubt have more pressing issues to discuss. 

2 hours ago, Merryweather said:

Hi - re pensions.

i believe all pensions - state or occupational - have to be taxed in Australia?

Any comments? Advice? Does it take ages to arrange, etc.?

Hi Merryweather

There is an extra tax relief on pensions allowed by the Australian govt. Its called something loke the 'undeducted purchase price' I can't remember offhand but I'll get back to you when Ive looked it up. Its about your individual contribution to a pension scheme, which attracts extra tax relief. Sorry to be so vague but Im only just getting my head round it myself. if nobody else posts a better explanation I'll message you a link later. (Am in bed drinking tea at the mo  

8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

You are absolutely right, but talk to the average Brit and they don't see it like that. I have cousins who are absolutely furious about the raising of the pension age, on the grounds that "I paid into that pension, so I'm entitled to it".  Look at @SusieRoo's and @Fisher1's responses above - both believe they have paid into the pension and are therefore entitled to it.

The truth is, the NI contributions an individual pays during their lifetime are nowhere near enough to pay for a pension for 20 years, which is what many people will be collecting.  I only realised this when I looked into paying a few extra years' contributions.  I only had to pay a few thousand extra to make a big difference to the UK pension I get, and that's for the rest of my life. 

I don't know whether the government have managed the fund badly or not - but it's bleeding obvious that they haven't increased the contributions over the years to what they should be, and that's a huge part of the reason why the fund falls short.

Hallo Marisawright, your 'Average Brit' here

I do believe that I paid for my pension and am entitled to it. - that's probably because my government told me so - not that I believe everything that crowd say.  I also believe that you are mistaken.

There are certainly problems balancing the books, as there have been with many final salary pension schemes in the UK  snd elsewhere -  because people are living longer and the "old aged pension" as it used to be known, was introduced at a time when few workers lived past the age of seventy or so. Clearly action needs to be taken to either increase the contributions or make the money go further by increasing the pension age and this is what the UK government ha been trying to do.

There remains, however, a crucial difference between a pension which is calculated  and paid out according to compulsory individual contributions and pensions given by the state to people who are in need.  This difference is illustrated by the fact that several thousand Australians have recently lost their state pensions due to the Turnbull government deciding that they are no longer poor enough to need it. This could not happen in the UK without a major change in the law, because the UK state pension is paid for, and is not a benefit. That's why it's possible to buy back "missing years'.  

It is really important to make the distinction because when applying for anything that involves stating your income, if you want to include the UK state pension  as part of that income you get a strange look and that pen starts to waver! 

12 hours ago, newjez said:

Well - that's is how British people think. But in reality it's just another tax. I really doubt that they put any of that NI money to one side. Or if they don't have enough NI money - they stop paying pensions. It's all tax. 

I disagree. I can't believe they have a pot of money labelled 'state pension' that they put money into every month - far from it. But even if it's only on paper, it's important to acknowledge that the UK state pension is paid for - throughout our working lives and is NOT a handout given from the government.  There is a big difference and it needs to be acknowledged.

10 hours ago, LindaH27 said:

As far as I’m aware the aged pension is only given if you are on a low income ie it’s means tested. It’s not like the UK pension which everybody gets as long as you’ve paid enough National Insurance. 

I think the crucial difference is that the Australian pension is a benefit to which individuals make no contributions during their working life, whereas the UK pension is not a state benefit because inividuals have contributed to it throughout their working lives - and as for any paid for pension, what you get depends on the amount you have paid in - not everyone gets the same.