2tigers

Good video Rachel Tilley, it does make people stop and think. You have put so much hard work into this, that I hope it makes people stop and think. Ask those 'what if' questions, make an informed decision, don't let yourself be another person stuck. Hoping one day the HC will be updated

Sorry had to remove the FB link which we don't allow. People can pm you for the info if they're interested.

Thats OK Ali, Expat stuck mums is easy for people to find and anyone is welcome to message me if they have difficulties finding the group. But I don't log on here often, is there anyone on here who I could send the link to and if anyone can't find the FB group, they could message that person for it?

The Hague Convention is gaining a lot of attention right now in the UK with one TV company interested in making a documentary. Also the UK TV program about relocating to AU has also shown interest. If you would like to find out more, there is a Facebook group. Its not just for Mums, its also for Dads.

Parleycross, some people do as I am sure you are aware. Or is this sarcasm? I am confused as to why you are asking this? Prenup is mainly financial - children do not have a price tag. Unless you have been in this situation, it must be rather difficult for you to understand.

Do not put your head in the sand and pretend non of this would happen to you. Ignorance can cause immense problems. This is such an issue, MAJORITY of people relocating take more time researching a new car and shopping around for the best insurance deals than they do about their own 'insurances' for If something goes wrong.

Hello Quoll and Tina2, its been a while...... nice to read you are both here and helping others to see life from different perspectives.

cshowell, as both above have very well said - each case is different, it would be completely wrong to assume all of the cases are where a parent misses home and just decides to up sticks and move back to where they came from. Without knowing the fine details of each persons case, your assumptions can be damaging. Each case is complicated, with mental, physical, financial and emotional abuse being aspects that are as damaging as each other. If a parent was going through any or all of these situations, the effect on the child can be even more damaging. A lot of the people who have contributed to this thread have been there in the above situations and some are still there, please have some empathy for those that you have just assumed put only themselves first.

I am the initial author of this thread, my aim to was make people aware that they cannot just move back home with the children if their relationship breaks down, that they need to sit down and think about all the possible outcomes, and agree as best as they can, before moving to the other side of the world. Although we cannot predict how we would react in such a situation, it would help greatly to discuss and find out the other persons thoughts before agreeing to move the children. Its a step forward in looking out of the box, to be realistic and not assume that the new life will be a rose garden, the stresses and pressure put on families when they move is tremendous and a lot of people split up due to the pressure.

As it is, I know from experience that a lot of people, without realising, put more thought into researching a new home than they do thinking about what if we split up, what would happen to the children? I can guarantee you now, most people who read this have not had the discussion with their partner, their love of their life - what would happen to our children if we split up? It is difficult to predict what you would do, but sensible to discuss it. When in a relationship it is naturally optimistic of us to think about a happy future, not the dowdy negative aspects. When moving, most people do not envision that their lives could be completely torn apart if their relationship fails. Not just themselves, but their children too. This is when it gets very very complicated. This is why this thread urges those who are looking to move abroad with children, or have children when there, to discuss the 'what if's'.....

Tina - thats daunting, I found in the UK I am also better off financially (& academically) whilst studying full-time at Uni, rather than part-time study. Its a strange set up!

M2M - thats great thank you

Thanks Tina, looks like Aus is tightening its purse strings.... with little regard for those in the grey

Just a suggestion - maybe in the 'Moving back to the UK' thread may help people more? It would probably get missed here and it really could save a lot of people a lot of money and heartache if they are aware of the laws with moving back home with children?

Mods: I have just noticed this sticky has moved to the folder 'Feedback and Announcements'..... correct me if I am wrong, but I can't see how it falls within that category?

Another update, I had 3inches taken away of 'me' at the end of August and once it was tested I found out they need to take more, will need a skin graft too. In the process of consultant appointments now. Its at stage 3 of pre-cancerous still, not cancer as that is stage 4, so happy we are still chopping away until its all gone.

I've had angry days about all of this as I was being ignored for such a long time, being fobbed off with thrush.... at least I'm seeing the right specialists now and something is being done about it.

Please ladies, read all of this and check yourselves out, if in doubt - nag until you get a proper answer. I just wish the GP's didn't just 'guess' at things like this as most people in my position would just accept the 'professionals' word and believe what they say.

x

Hello all you Pomsinozzers,

I haven't been around for a while, had a few things to keep me occupied - health issues, operation, loads of Uni work, kids, work, home - you get the jist... I'm a single mum so the jiggling and juggling can get to me sometimes.

But I have wine.

And chocolate.

Anyway, I've still be checking here daily, in case anyone needed advice re: Sticky - "Children, what happens....." hague convention etc.

What I do want to say is, I have missed you all, all the crazy banter and lovely people.... but I really don't have much time to sit like I used to and enjoy the banter....

What I want to say is, a special thank you to Tink, randomly she has sent messages to me, thinking of me and wishing me happiness, its really made me feel wanted, that someone, who I have never met in real life, has thought of me and carried on sending me messages of good wishes.... this is what pomsinoz is about isn't it? I don't even live in Aus anymore, I'm back home - but we are a community regardless of where we live. Human and have feelings, care for each other. In a strange tinternet way

You are a lovely person Tink and I am sure there are many on here who have similar stories about you.... please share fellow pomsinozzers.....

x

A little update..... today the Dr's told me they will surgically remove the bad cells from my vulvar.

Its good news, its going to be treated and a bloody good job I found it in the first place!

Hope all is well in the land of PIO, I've not been around for ages - way too busy, but do check in occasionally

Hi there,

Haven't posted on here for a long time... one for the ladies

Just to warn all females out there of my situation at this moment in time and hope to raise awareness to check yourselves out.....

About a year ago, whilst shaving down below, I noticed a white raised area and a sore area. Dr's dismissed the white area and said it was thick skin and said the soreness was thrush. I was treated for thrush over and over. I also was led to believe I may have an allergy, so had to be watchful with soaps, washing powder etc.

One year later of numerous other appointments and lots of different creams etc, I was given an appointment to see a skin specialist. Her reactions have changed everything. She decided she wanted to rule out pre-cancerous cells so took 2 biopsy's.

Both have come back as positive. I now await an appointment with a gyno and wait to hear the next steps.

I know the key word here is PRE, but just hearing the word cancer in any sentence is a worry you can imagine.

Anyway, I have come on here today to hopefully raise awareness, check yourselves out down there ladies and if anything looks different than you think it should do - get it checked out. The two areas I had biopsy's on were showing completely different symptoms but both are pre-cancerous cells.

Most people I have spoken to about this have questioned 'Outside? But isn't pre-cancerous cells picked up from inside, by a smear?' - well my experience has told me different, and non of my friends had bothered before my dilemma to sit in front of a mirror and 'inspect' to check for odd looking areas.....

Please go ahead ladies and check yourselves out, thanks for reading

Hi there,

Similar situation - I married an Aussie in the UK and we divorced in AU. I now carry a marriage certificate and a divorce certificate! The certificate has been accepted in situations over here in the UK no problem

Privilege insurance accept Aussie no claims

I guess like many people here I have stumbled across this page and too have found myself extremely frightened reading the post. I am an UK citizen with a one year old daughter and whose father is Australian. We have had a very difficult time. After being together for a year and then travelling for 12 months we both returned to Scotland to save for 12-18 months for another trip however my partner did not settle well in Scotland which created tensions in our relationship.

After a year I was extremely shocked to discover I was pregnant and he did not react well at all to the news and could not accept being a father and the responsibilities involved and left and returned to Oz. I was five months pregnant at the time. Very slowly he has began to accept everything and has recently returned to UK (His parents are Italian so he has dual european and australian passport). He has been here four weeks and had made a huge effort and wants to try again and be a family however because of previous difficulties in the UK he has asked me to return to Australia with our daughter and make a fresh start.

In my head I was thinking we could try for a year however now that I found out the reality of the situation it has given me so much to think about. I love him very much however having brought my daughter up on my own for a year, I could not bear to even think about losing her. It makes me very nervous even thinking about the decisions I have to make.

If you feel your relationship is rocky to begin with, moving to the other side of the world will probably not fix it. In reality, yes you could go over there and decide your relationship isn't what you hoped for, but then you wouldn't be able to just come home. He would have to agree. Good luck in whatever you decide, its a toughie for sure.

Okay so we are due to move in a month with two small kids and this thread is frightening the life out of me. Is there even any point in contacting a solicitor if when in Australia any agreement made is useless? Anyone made an agreement and when the time comes it stands up in court?

If you have any doubts about your relationship before you go, maybe you should reassess your move...... talking things through and coming to an agreement before a move is ideal, at least you are being realistic which most people don't do.

Seek legal advice, getting an agreement drawn up before your move can only help your situation. This would obviously change over time too, as the children settle it would be more difficult to move back home regardless of what you agree on. If you did end up in court, an agreement would not override the law, but it would be very strong evidence to show both of your intentions before the split. When adults do split it can turn very very nasty and then selfishness on both parts (both parents thinking of their own happiness) can raise its head, the children sometimes turn into pawns. At least an agreement is done when both are being realistic and without emotion. Saying that, at the end of the day, courts shout about making an agreement on what is best for the children, this is debatable, but once in court - they make the decisions. Not you. Your future is taken out of your hands.

I have a brother in Oz who was married to a kiwi, they had one son and 4 years later had a break down within the marriage, she moved where she wanted within the state and he had to follow if he wanted to see his son, and finally had my brother taken through the courts left right and centre and she still would not abide by the courts. She would more often than not deny him access which had been granted by the courts.

 

She then asked for permission to take the boy to NZ for a HOLIDAY and she has not returned him to Oz and there is nothing my brother can do but wait until his son is over 12.

 

The latest is that when she moved his child support payments were deemed not payable and now because she has had a relationship break up, she has applied to the NZ courts for CS and it appears she will get it, my brother has attempted to complete on suicide at least once, feels that no matter what he does he has to pay the price while she gets off scot free and no one mentioned the HC to him or that she could go to prison for taking his son out of the country.

 

So it is not always the men who have their way and the courts do not stick to the 50% scenerio

Unfortunately not all Lawyers in AU or the UK and probably all the other countries in the world, are versed on the HC. I was given very wrong advice in AU and fortunately for me that Lawyer was subpoenaed in court and openly admitted he had no idea what it was. And he was a family lawyer. Your brother is best going to a main Legal Aid office, they are in fact the best centre of knowledge that I found, when I asked why other Lawyers were not well versed, it was a case of the Legal Aid system is because of the volume of cases they deal with and their continuous progression with the laws. Some back street, and even main street lawyer may charge through the roof, but may only come into contact with a HC case once in a lifetime, if they are lucky.

I had to pay, I had too much luggage at the airport so used one of those companies to send unocompanied suitcases. I paid to send in au then had to pay something else on collection... Can't remember how much tho sorry, but wasn't a ridiculous amount, just some handling fees I think.

I use Viber for free texts, sending free photos & free phone calls, can also use on a 3G. Also use skype for free calls & free webcams. Both are free to download too.

WOW just seen that over 47,100 people have read this thread. If I have helped just one person/family then I am happy. I would not wish the HC on anyone, looking back it was the most challenging time of my life and has changed all of our futures considerably.

Please do not ignore the fact that many people do split up, we spend a fortune and lots of time organising the move - but pay little regard to what will happen to the children if things do go pear shaped. What happens to them can change their lives forever. Thats a big burden to carry, so make sure you act wisely.

If I could do anything now - it would be to insist that people are made aware of this in their immigration package. But unfortunately, only rose tinted glasses are in those aren't they..... not the real daily facts that life throws. Would we listen anyway? Or just assume it wouldn't happen to us? At least it would be there instead of just not having a clue.

Here is a copy of the Hague Convention - http://www.haguedv.org/articles/Washington%20State%20Bench%20Guide%20dvAndTheHagueConvention.pdf

And here is a snippet regarding removal with consent, difficult to make sense of the jargon, but gives food for thought.....

There are five reasons (see link above) as to why the courts would not return the child through the HC, below is #1, the other four given reason to: Child attains age of Maturity, Passage of One year/child settled, petitioner not exercising custodial rights and grave risk.

For anyone reading this - I am not legally trained, just been there and have the t-shirt. Now try to sit on the fence & have empathy for all parties. No-one wins, just the children lose.

1. Petitioner Consent or Acquiescence

The judicial authority of the requested State is not bound to order the return of the child if the person, institution or other body having the care of the person of the child had consented to or subsequently acquiesced in the removal or retention.

ICARA requires the respondent to demonstrate, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the petitioner consented to or subsequently acquiesced in the removal or retention.

Some courts, including one in the Ninth Circuit, distinguish between consent prior to removal and subsequent acquiescence, either of which may extinguish the right of return.

To establish acquiescence or consent, courts have required acts or statements with requisite formality, such as testimony in a judicial proceeding, a convincing written renunciation or rights, or a consistent attitude over a significant period of time.

The absence of any meaningful effort to obtain return of the child has been found by some courts to be sufficient to establish the exception.

A petitioner’s repeated actions to locate the child, however, are inconsistent with any claim of acquiescence.

A respondent’s act of concealing removal is inconsistent with any claim of consent.

Additionally, any allegation of prior consent is undermined by filing a petition pursuant to the Convention.

A petitioner’s failure to exercise obligations under a custody agreement does not constitute consent where the agreement giving custody was rescinded before removal and the petitioner’s subsequent action fails to show consent to removal.

Emma, try to see the Uk with fresh eyes..... Get on the Internet & google where to go & what to see close to home & around your area, keep busy planning days out, I've done many things alone! I now see the uk more as a tourist, it's amazing what I've now seen & done in contrast to before I left!

I have this dilemma too at the mo, there are so many to choose from, I've been told that for my car to have a towbar it will cost me £400 then the bike rack I want is another 3-400!!!!!

What gets me is every company I speak to gives me different answers about the tow bar.