Guest proud2beaussie Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I have just had a conversation with a client who wants to become an Australian citizen and who has discovered that as from 9 November the citizenship application process has changed. Applicants for citizenship no longer make an appointment for citizenship testing first, instead all applicants must make an application to ensure that they meet the residence requirements,then DIAC will contact the applicant and arrange a test ,after that if the test is passed ok then the application is processed. My client was told by a DIAC officer that they were simply having too many cases of people being booked for tests,and actually taking the tests only to discover that the person didn't meet the requirements so that is the reason why the change has been made. A pity that the IMMI website doesn't make it clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Nigel, A pity that the IMMI website doesn't make it clear. May not be a perfect site but follow the links trail, don't get distracted by Tiger shots and you'll find the application process Australian Citizenship – Applying for citizenship Australian Citizenship – How to apply Australian Citizenship – Application process for Australian citizenship There's also alternate links to documents required. So how else ought it to have greater clarity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Having just got my PR I thought I'd look into when I could apply for citizenship, I filled in the on-line form and a message popped up saying I wasnh't eligible apply again 23rd Nov 2012! I thought it was pretty clear too. Maybe for those that have looked into it previously what is not clear is that it has changed. Jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm advised by my client that as late as yesterday a DIAC officer told him that he had to take the test first,the site still gives details of where to sit the test etc but that seems superflous as you don't make an appointment yourself now ,instead you have to apply and then be told when the appointment is! I'm also advised (I can't confirm how true this is) that as late as Sunday night the website was still advising people that they had to take the test first-it appears from the links you have provided that they have updated it-but it still seems silly to tell people to make an appointment when they don't actually do that anymore. The links that you provided wanderer are clear enough but surely they should change the bit about test appointments etc if people don't have to ring to make an appointment now but lodge an application first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 We see often enough comments in respect to uselessness of DIAC officers [not that I agree] and in any large organisation there can always be the situation of it taking time for all employees to come up to speed with new regs. The alternative would be to have all concerned going into training sessions every time there were regulation changes coming and prior to them applying, which could mean more staff needed to man the coalface, more costs and more taxes, so some semblance of balance is probably aimed at. There is one page that would seem to have a misleading reference Nigel and that is making an appointment - that page being tucked away you could say under "Learning about Citizenship" rather than the Applying section: Australian Citizenship – Where can I sit the test? Nevertheless, there are improvements that could be made and I've forwarded the following comments in regard to the above page and improvements. The new arrangements for Citizenship Application and the testing with DIAC advising on tests is a clear enough approach however on one of the site pages, that nominated, there is still mention of people ringing to make an interview appointment and that could be confusing to some.The other area I'd suggest some fine tuning on is that on Australian Citizenship – Applying for citizenship you get the best information path from "how to apply" which is tucked away in the box to the left when it could be seen to be the major link people may want to see after the heading of "applying for Citizenship" I'd think on Australian Citizenship – How to apply that the bottom link of "Australian Citizenship by Conferral" could also possibly do with a better title, especially seeing as it takes you tohttp://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/how_to_apply/conferral_app_process/ with a heading of Application process for Australian citizenship - that being the page which is really the heart of the matter. Feedback successfully sent Thank you for your feedback which has been sent to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship. The Reference Number for this feedback is: IMMI-09-16920 You will receive an acknowledgement email in the near future. All in the service! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Good work wanderer, Anything that makes the process more easy to understand is worthwhile,and if DIAC acts on your feedback then it will have all been worth it ,my client by the way has submitted his application so hopefully we will soon have another Australian citizen to welcome.(he's been here 36 years) BTW Maybe I should point out that my client is a customer of my travel agency-I'm not in the habit of giving illegal immigration advice!lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 When I applied earlier in the year, I made the test appointment by telephone and my eligability was checked during that process, when I arrived, if i'd been out of the country etc. The system seemed to work pretty well for us and i was actually impressed by their efficiency. Also before taking the test you had to see someone who checked all your details etc., so i'm surprised people were sitting the test and later finding out they weren't eligable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Nigel, BTW Maybe I should point out that my client is a customer of my travel agency-I'm not in the habit of giving illegal immigration advice!lol. It's a long way from having a discussion on any topic to being guilty of illegal advice and James did point out that a section of Immi legislation posted by another for whatever reason did actually have a clause in it which more or less means anything is fair game if you're not charging for it! ali, When I applied earlier in the year, I made the test appointment by telephone and my eligability was checked during that process, when I arrived, if i'd been out of the country etc. The system seemed to work pretty well for us and i was actually impressed by their efficiency. Perhaps that efficiency just moves on a tad for while the system proved fine for you, it could be that other people through communication difficulties either end [some accents/pace of speaking with phone calls can be difficult] have come unstuck re being considered eligible, turned up for a test and found themselves not to be so. Or as could be the case, their application was not thoroughly examined until after the test, DIAC seeing that onus was with applicant to get both application and test right. The new system will certainly make things smoother for when an application is done [if applicant has got it wrong], it'll be made clear as in Jules case and far less labour intensive - government needs less people for our taxes to pay for or same people can now be used for testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 From the information I have received the problems were happening in regional and rural locations where testing in done at places like Medicare and Centrelink officers where there aren't always DIAC trained officers available to check paperwork as thoroughly as would be expected at a DIAC office,I think that is where the problems surfaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm all for improvements, and do recognise that for some the system may not have proven quite so smooth, I was only speaking of my own experience of going through the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Another thought just entered my mind too Nigel [and not about to bother dissecting all the DIAC info], but they may have even deliberately left the make an appointment info there for the cases of where someone may want to get a quickie testing/conferral if that is still possible. In the days before testing and it was a case of just fill in the application, I think if I remember properly for the case I know of, advice went to the local council who would collate all the names to then send out an invitation to people to come in to have a conferral with the local Mayor. In the particular case I refer to, someone was wanting to go overseas and was after the citizenship grant ASAP to get an Australian passport in time. So checking with the council office, geeing up the person who organised ceremonies and the Mayor got the Mayor doing an individual conferring. So maybe once people have submitted their application, they could ring to see if they can fast track to getting into an earlier test [perhaps at a different location] and hence provision for ringing and testing locations given. If that is the case, it could still all be made a bit clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leetak Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 hi All This is regarding new citizenship process which changed on 9th nov. Process says that it is simpler, we have to file citizenship appliation after we get eligible and we get invite for test from DIMIA I am getting eligble in Feburary 2010 and wanted to book the citizenship test for jan. so, that when i apply in feb, all requirements are met, i only wait for approval. But now when i apply in feb, i have to wait for test date and then wait for approval. It seems to me process is made simple but it is more lengthy in terms of time. do any one knows how much time will process take. I mean from application date to approval. I have to travel to my country early next year , can't go as citizenship test date can come any time.. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Australian Citizenship – Application process for Australian citizenship 3-6 months. It has never been a extra quick process for once people have been assessed and the information is sent out to your local council, the councils would then be scheduling in when next ceremony would be and it could even be that the very next one already had the full quota. The problems that have occurred in the past are . people applying that were not eligible. . people booking tests and they were not eligible All that wastes time/resources/taxes So if people now follow the guidelines, it could reduce the waste. If you want to leave the country and it'll clash with application/testing/conferring, can you not do it on your existing passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sereena Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I didn't know the process had changed, and by the sounds of it it's not for the better for those of us on a time limit. I'd had a message from another PIO member recently saying that you could sit the citizenship test BEFORE your eligible date so that you were ready to apply when that date came around. Is it really correct that this is no longer the case & if so anyone had any experience as to how long it's likely to take to get a test date through? We don't become eligible until mid May & we need to get our application in before end of June to avoid the new 4yr rule that comes in then.....this new news does not sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I'd suggest that potential applicants read the DIAC site themselves rather than rely on third parties. It'll be getting your application in by the date required more so than having a test done that'll determine what conditions you need to meet. Australian Citizenship – Application process for Australian citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sereena Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thx Wanderer - I just looked at the link you provided. I really had no idea that things had changed. Looks like we're going to have to be on top of things to try & get everything done by the time we need it to be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I've merged this thread with the existing one that I started recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sereena Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thx for all the useful info, but just one more question I wonder if anyone knows the answer to: Would we be deemed as having made the application before they give us the test date or is the application 'finalised' in their eyes once the test is done? I'm just concerned that if we apply when we become eligible in mid May, but they don't give us a test date until after the end of June that they won't have deemed us as applying before 30th June. Hope that makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 An application date, or date of lodgement as DIAC refer to it in other places will the date that your application is received as being correct. The testing and conferment are the following process. It would only be if your application proved to be wrong because you had submitted incorrect dates or whatever and you then had to submit a new application and the that application was past the desognated cut-off date that you would be considered as not having met the original date. I think earlier in the thread now it is merged, there's a post re attempting to submit and the application being refused because of time in Oz. so they've got the computer configured to analyse some submitted online info it'd seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think wanderer is correct with his opinion about dates of application being used to determine whether you meet a cut off date but the DIAC computer can do strange things,I have another example of how things can go wrong. A friend of mine wants to apply for citizenship,she has been in Australia as a permanent resident since 1968,so meets the residence requirement there,she has a British passport and has made several trips overseas since 1968 and has maintained returned resident visas since then,the last trip she took was from Dec 2007 to Nov 2008-she arrived back in the country on the 16th of November 2008 so according to her thinking she meets the requirement of having spent 12 months in the last two years in Australia,but on attempting to lodge an online application on Sunday was rejected as not meeting the residence requirement !she has sent an email to DIAC about it but they are yet to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Nigel, things can go wrong.A friend of mine wants to apply for citizenship,she has been in Australia as a permanent resident since 1968,so meets the residence requirement there,she has a British passport and has made several trips overseas since 1968 and has maintained returned resident visas since then,the last trip she took was from Dec 2007 to Nov 2008-she arrived back in the country on the 16th of November 2008 so according to her thinking she meets the requirement of having spent 12 months in the last two years in Australia,but on attempting to lodge an online application on Sunday was rejected as not meeting the residence requirement !she has sent an email to DIAC about it but they are yet to respond. Have a vague recollection of a post on something about the residence calculator only counting whole months and it could be set yo do something stupid like . For an application this month, it only counts from October back. . And seeing as friend got back midway through November 2008, it would only count to December = 11 months in Australia. . And then it would be November 2008 - December 2007 = 12 months out . And November 2007 in [if counted] would = 1 month in Thus you would think that the 12 months in last two years would be fine And if the friend hadn't been outside of Australia for more than two of the years 3-5 there ought not be a problem. But maybe some wonderous programmer used to get short changed at the Corner store and not only has settings for full months but a setting that for the 12 in 24 works on only counting back from the month of application. That being November 2009, it'll only count back to December 2007 and thus without November 2007 being counted, your friend will only have 11 months in 24 until the calendar flips over into December. Be interesting to see what answer does come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest proud2beaussie Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Hi wanderer, Debbie left Sydney on December 30,2007 ,spent from Dec 31st 2007 to Nov 15,2008 in London,arrived back November 16,2008,she hasn't been out of the country since last November and had not been outside Australia (apart from 2 weeks in New Zealand in October 2003) from January 2002 to December 2007 so I was thinking that she should be fine on the residence requirement side of things,she is now awaiting the response to her email to DIAC but she is now starting to have second thoughts about the whole thing,she said to me that if the government wanted long term PR people like her to take out citizenship why do they make it so awkward?. I have to say I sort of agree with her,I know that there are requirements to be met for citizenship,and I don't have any quarrel with that but when I became a citizen 23 years ago it was so much easier-and we didn't have the technology we have now-back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wanderer Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I don't think the system is all that bad Nigel and sometimes it is just modern technology that is not so good, like if it is the time measurement programming the way I have described without sufficient differentiation on actual dates, that is what needs tweaking. I'm not saying it is that alone that has caused Debbie to be put into the non qualifying category and sure, I can imagine Debbie seeing that as a bit of a pain. Maybe if she runs the residential calculator thing for an application in December or January, she'll find she has the 12 months in last 24 then. I think the government has always encouraged people to take out citizenship, just because that is their right and then with a passport it obviously removes the hastle of having to get a RRV. If anything, they have been pretty generous in phasing in the new arrangements for longer periods of residence being required and I suppose it was all the guff about the lack of english being spoken and all that has had the tests introduced - which a lot of us Aussies ironically would probably fail. Another stupid example of a similar bit of madness was on local news tonight re a test an older nurse had taken for getting back into nursing and they have a cultural section - one question being what % of patients in hospitals were non english speaking in 1999! - you could not get any less than 8/10 in this and any section to be re-registered for nursing - WTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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