Marisawright

Maybe those who can't make friends are just not so friendly themselves? Just a passing thought....

I'm a fairly shy person so that's true to an extent - but as I say, I have lived in places where I've made good friends, and I don't think I behaved any differently there,so it can't be ALL my fault.

What evidence? Other than you just repeating it? The evidence is that there is plenty of wild life in Australia.r.

Bungo, you are usually a fund of common sense, but you're not making sense here. Are you saying that so long as there's "plenty of wildlife" in Australia, it doesn't matter what kind it is? So you'd be quite happy if a rare bandicoot died out, because there's still plenty of possums out there, so who cares?

We have no illusions that it isn't going to be easy.. We don't think its going to be the beach every weekend we just think in the long run after getting work and getting settled we can fit in and the children will have more activities to do and when they are older there will be more opportunities for them.. And if it doesn't work we can always come home, at least we have tried it and won't live with the regret..

 

If you're outdoorsy people then the lifestyle in Australia can be great, but forget the idea that your kids will have more opportunities in Australia. The reverse is true. They will have much, much more choice of careers and opportunities for promotion in the UK and Europe than in Australia.

Twenty or thirty years ago, Australia was the land of opportunity because there were skill shortages everywhere, with not enough people to fill the jobs in a constantly growing economy. It was easy to find a job and you'd get promoted fast.

Nowadays, there are plenty of people to fill most jobs - so work is, if anything, harder to find than in the UK, and promotion is no faster than in the UK. The unemployment rate is rising, too, as the mining boom fades.

And the big problem is - if you're living in Sydney, it's almost impossible to get a job in, say, Brisbane or Perth or Townsville because employers insist on a face-to-face interview - and if you're unemployed, the cost of flying around the country is prohibitive. Whereas if you're in Manchester, it's not hard to get to London or Birmingham or Aberdeen or even Paris for an interview. That means opportunities to find work or land a promotion are much better in the UK - because if there's no work where you are, it's a lot easier to commute or move.

Higher education choices are more limited too, because the population is smaller. You won't find nearly as many specialised courses in Australia. So, for instance, if one of your kids is good at languages and wants to be an interpreter, there are several courses in the UK but only one in Australia. And don't think he can just go back to the UK to do the course - he'll be classified as a foreign student and have to pay full fees.

That's not to say, don't come to Australia. If the lifestyle suits you then that makes up for a lot of the limitations. But the "better opportunities for the kids" reason is not a valid one.

Do you think it depends though where you live in Australia?

Yes, definitely. I started out in country Victoria and even though I was there only a year, I made friends I'm still in touch with.

I was in Sydney for over thirty years and while I had a large circle of "friends", only one of them has bothered to contact me/reply to emails/comment on my Facebook posts in the six months since I left.

I'm sure it's the same in the UK. I don't find Southampton particularly friendly - I went to a belly dance concert and the only people who responded in a friendly way were the teachers (hoping I'd join their classes of course!), and a girl from New Zealand. But no doubt it's different in other places.

To be fair, most Australian's live in cities with their cats where I expect there is less wildlife for them to eat.

You would be very surprised. I'm surprised at how little wildlife I see in Southampton, even walking through the New Forest, compared to what I used to see in my Sydney suburb.

Have you ever been to Cape Town? Beautiful, beautiful city. It's sad that our exchange rate is plummeting, our government is (on the whole) corrupt, and we have limited job opportunities (affirmative action, which is needed, leaves many of us unemployable). It's an awesome country but it needs new management. And that, unfortunately, is not coming anytime soon.

Swaziland was a tough place to live so we spent many weekends and holidays in SA, including a road trip all the way to the Cape, which was beautiful. Loved the Garden Route! I think South Africa has Australia beat in many ways, I miss it a lot - it's such a pity the country is such a basket case.

Hi I'm looking for help and advice on moving to Australia. I will be moving with my husband and 2 boys who will be 7 and 3 when moving. My husband is the visa applicant and I'm very apprehensive about the move an settling in and getting my boys into school and nursery.

Do we take pics sits with us sell it all before coming...

 

Are you looking forward to it but apprehensive, or just apprehensive?

A cautionary note - if your husband has talked you into moving, you're only doing it to please him and you don't really want to go, stop right now. It's a huge and daunting task to move halfway round the world and leave all your family and friends behind. It's difficult enough when you're both 100% enthusiastic about the idea - if one of you is uncertain, it can all go horribly wrong. If you're in that situation, this is a good forum to be honest and share your feelings, and you'll find plenty of people who've been in your situation and can give you good advice.

Anyhow, that may well not be you - maybe you're as keen as your oh and you're just having some last minute jitters. That's normal, it's a big step!

As for your question - I'd say take everything with you, unless your furniture is very old and needs replacing anyway. It may seem like a lot of money for shipping, but it's not just the cost of replacement you've got to consider. When you arrive, you'll have 101 things to do to get settled - you don't also want to have to slog around furniture shops and kitchen shops, replacing everything you left behind.

If you ship your furniture, you'll also be able to squeeze in a whole lot of small stuff in the spaces - toys, books, kitchen utensils, pots and pans, linen, clothes, ornaments - none of which is worth much individually but will make a difference in making your new house feel like your home.

You do have to consider timing: it will take two or three months for your container or Movecube to get from the UK to Australia, so you have to think how you'll manage until it arrives. The best thing is probably to ship everything about a month before your move date - you can probably work out how to "camp" in your home using borrowed stuff from relatives or things that aren't good enough to ship, or maybe move in with the parents. Then you'll need to book a holiday flat for a month in Oz anyway, to give you time to find a house. There's two months gone already, so by the time you're ready to move into your new home, your stuff will have arrived or be close to arriving.

I would love to have the wedding here and for all our family and friends back home to come over, but is this alot to ask? I feel nervous talking about it with them and our parents have said they will come but it seems they are reluctant because of the cost. I would feel so uncomfortable throwing the wedding here and knowing that the guests were unhappy on travelling on this way.

 

Yes, it is a lot to ask of guests to come to Australia - the air fares are a big cost for some people, and then there's the cost of hotels, which are not cheap in Perth!

We got married in Australia, we had a celebrant and got married in the garden at our local art gallery. Very simple, no fuss. My bridesmaid and I had flowers from the local flower shop. Then we booked a big table at the local Italian restaurant and had a wonderful afternoon/evening celebrating with our friends. We didn't have a private room, we didn't even tell the restaurant it was a wedding (no doubt they would've doubled the price if we had!).

Then we flew to Santorini and did it all again for our British family! Our second ceremony wasn't a legal marriage - if you're religious, you could have a blessing in your local church, for instance.

Overall it cost about the same as having a huge, fancy wedding and posh reception in either country, it was a lot more fun and we got to do it twice!

I haven't been back for over 30 years and I didn't think I would ever want to go back. Now I'm in my 60s and I'm starting to think about going back, not on a permanent basis but I wouldn't mind going for a year or two but I'll be lucky if my missus agrees to a month.

I know plenty of people who go back for holidays - sometimes extended holidays - on their own, so don't waste time nagging her - just get on the plane!

Wow...

 

Some people talk on here with massive generalizations and assert it as fact to everybody else.

 

There are just so many variables in this argument.

 

We live in the Northern Beaches and have a large garden (both front and rear). We have possums, bandicoots and turkeys in our garden daily. We also see numerous birds including owls. We brought a dog and 2 cats from the UK.

The cats are only allowed out during daylight hours and the cat flap is locked at dusk.

 

One of our cats is definitely not a hunter. She shows practically zero interest in any other animals and is too lazy to chase anything. We have had her for 7 years and I have never even seen her hunt.

The other cat came from a farm and has a hunting instinct. She brings in about 1 lizard a month that we know of (she brought in a few frogs in the UK). We do not like her doing this.

Both cats spend most of the day sleeping indoors.

 

I am very confident that one of our cats would hunt if we left her out all night and the other would not. (We have never given them that opportunity).

 

I cannot walk down the garden without lizards scurrying under the steps. The cat has clearly had little impact on the population. In contrast, I could have chosen to install new drive or build an extension and wipe out the trees and grass in my garden. That really would kill off any wildlife in my immediate vicinity (no possums, bandicoots, geckos etc). People do this every day and it is a much bigger threat than my cat ever could be. No doubt may posters on here are happy to live somewhere urban that has already decimated all wildlife.

 

The main factor in where we chose to live was genuinely to ensure that the cats had some space and would not annoy neighbours or get themselves run over. You cannot tell all people to leave cats at home when you have zero idea if they are off to Darwin / Uluru or some farm in Victoria that you have never heard of.

 

I am sure the aboriginal people would have a strong argument against all of us coming to Australia and decimating the country and it's resources. People are happy to bring their kids and buy a 4WD that does 15mpg.

 

Like everything, it comes down to responsible people. If you have cat then you should control it.

EXACTLY! There is only one person on this thread saying you shouldn't own a cat at all. Everyone else is just saying, keep it in at night when Australian wildlife is most active. As you say, there is nothing wrong with cats, only with the people who own them.

thanks for your help!!!! we will keep looking into it.. We are still going through the Visa process at the min so we have got a lot of time to think.. do not fancy working 6 days a week... will have a look at Newcastle area and see what we think.. thanks again :-)

Just to be clear, you don't actually work 6 days a week - the site runs 6 days a week and you'll be rostered on for 5 days out of the 6, which days can vary.

Newcastle area - long lovely beach; on the doorstep of the Hunter Valley Wineries; dolphins, fresh oysters and safe snorkelling at Port Stephens; sand dunes at Anna Bay. Once upon a time it was a rough place and still suffers from an undeserved reputation. The city centre is a bit dead but if you're living there you probably wouldn't go there often anyway.

We have people we know in Perth and the climate is hot which we like although we have been looking at sydney suburbs also as we know someone who works for the government in construction and there seems to be lots of jobs there although cost of living is much higher . ...Would like a house with a pool, 4 bedrooms..

There would be more work in Sydney as it's such a big place, but you're right - the cost of housing is terrifying. Your only hope of a 4 bedroom house near the beach would be to go to the Central Coast (Umina Beach or similar), which would mean over an hour's train trip to town. If you have to drive your work vehicle in, it can take a LOT longer than that in rush hour.

If you don't like the rat race, I wonder if you'd like Sydney - somewhere like Umina would suit you on a Sunday, but if you're spending most of your week struggling through horrendous traffic and working in the middle of a big city, would that work for you? Also do you realise that work sites in NSW work 7 to 3.30 Monday to Saturday (you get an RDO - rostered day off - once a week). I don't know what the other states' rules are, could be worth checking.

If you're after a more relaxed lifestyle then I'd have thought a smaller city where you can have a shorter commute would be better. You could even look at somewhere like Newcastle which has a great quality of life for families and much lower house prices. But I don't have any understanding of demand for plumbers I'm afraid.

What kind of better lifestyle were you hoping for? That makes a difference, because the different states are quite different in climate, culture, housing etc.

The job market all over Australia is in a downturn. In recent years, many tradies haven't worked in their normal trade because there's been so much money to be made working for the mining companies - and that also meant that the plumbers who were still working were in big demand!

Now that mining is slowing down, workers are returning to the cities so there's more competition in all the trades. Western Australia had the biggest boom and therefore Perth is noticing the biggest change, but it's an issue everywhere I think.

Humans have created an environment where birds, possums and rats are in plague proportions we need cats to control their numbers.

That would make sense if the cats confined themselves to species that are in plague proportions, and ignored the endangered ones.

I've also travelled, and know both Sevenoaks and Kingston extremely well. There's nothing that compares to them in South Africa, where I live.

Aha, South Africa! You'll find many similarities with Australia, depending where in particular you're from. I lived in Swaziland for three years and travelled a lot in SA, that was 30 years ago though.

You won't find anything like Sevenoaks or Kingston in Australia, either. I wonder if you're assuming Australian cities are like British ones - they're not, in fact they're far more like South African ones.

In Britain, cities started out fairly dense and small, and as they grew they swallowed up surrounding villages and even small towns. Many of those villages/towns manage to retain some village vibe when they're swallowed. Also, since many of those villages are long-established, they have quaint old centres which (if they're lucky) have been preserved.

Australia did not develop like that. Because of the hostile terrain, settlers started in the city and stayed in the city. A few outposts were created - in Sydney, they are Parramatta, Windsor and Richmond - but otherwise, growth started in the centre and grew outwards. Until the mid 20th century, Australians didn't value their old architecture - after all, very little was more than 100 years old - and as the city grew, it was simply knocked down to build grander houses. The only reason lovely suburbs like Paddington survived is because they were slums at the time and no one wanted to live there! (Paddington today is a highly sought-after suburb, with lovely terraced houses covered in wrought iron - but it's out of your budget).

By the way if you want to feel at home, you'll find a large South African population (mostly Jewish), around the St Ives area. Again, it's a quiet family-oriented area so maybe not what you're looking for.

We had a cat flap so our cat could come and go as they pleased - no issues with them going out.;

But how do you know?

I remember a documentary about cats and native wildlife a few years ago. They tracked several cats at night to see what they did. When they presented the statistics to the cat owners, they were absolutely shocked - their cats had never brought home more than one or two kills, and yet they were killing regularly. One of the cats was killing at least one animal or bird every single night!

Also, they were not eating them - cats are one of the few species that will hunt for fun. It's not through any cruel instinct - we all know how much cats enjoy chasing a furry object - a mouse is a furry object, and the cat will keep pursuing and playing with it until it escapes or drops dead. So keeping your cat well fed will not stop it hunting.

http://www.our-happy-cat.com/cat-hunting.html

I love animals including cats. I don't think badly of cats because they kill - they are predators, that's what they're designed for. But because they're well fed by their owners, it's unnecessary and if owners can prevent needless slaughter of other animals by the simple expedient of keeping their cats in at night, then surely they should.

Gave me a breakdown, ruined my career and marriage. And it was something neither of us wanted to do. Just stupid homesickness and grass is greener situation.

Jase, I'm very sorry for what happened to you. I think most people underestimate the risks and challenges of moving halfway round the world, and how devastating it can be if it goes wrong. And the fact that your situation is self-inflicted means you have to cope with guilt as well as grief, which makes it worse.

However, as others have said, that's in the past now. What are you achieving by going back over it again and again and again? Will it change anything? No.

All you can do now is start again. The good thing is that from where you are now, the only way is up. I know men hate the idea of counselling, but you do need someone to help you get things in perspective and work out how to take the next step. Don't be proud!

Thanks for the additional feedback. I think you're right - the distances on the map don't do the real distances justice.

 

For the record, I'm not in or from the UK, so I can't 'stay in the UK ', Bungo. I've referred to spots in the UK because this is the PomsInOz forum and I thought using those reference points would be useful to illustrate what I was after.

OK, so where are you? If you're not familiar with Sevenoaks or Kingston either, then you could be giving us a completely wrong picture of what you're looking for. Some of us have travelled, you know - you might find there are people here who are familiar with your country and would understand examples from there.

Well that's the comparison I'm trying to explain. Sydney's suburbs are just that, suburbs. To find outlying villages and towns like Kingston, you have to go beyond Penrith in the west, Sutherland in the south and Hornsby in the north. You will find some lovely suburbs closer in but they were never villages in their own right so don't have that feel.

You're probably quite right about the last part. I'm starting to come around, though, as we continue the discussion (and I continue the search - never looked at so many maps in such a short space of time).

 

As for something within London itself, how about Kingston or Richmond?

Would you call them suburbs of London, or outlying towns?

I've never been. Busy with plans to move over before Feb. But let's talk Sevenoaks then, rather than Canterbury. Bigger than a village, for sure, but still extremely leafy, spacious and tranquil, with some really affordable pockets, and not all that far from the city.

But it's still outside the M25, and a 45 minute commute to the CBD! It's in Kent, not in London or even Greater London. All the places everyone has mentioned are still in Greater Sydney, just like Catford or Peckham or Kensington are in Greater London. Can you name anywhere IN London that has the villagey feel you're after?

I feel like you're imagining Sydney as a much smaller place than it actually is.

Apologies, Oatley it is. Tranquil setting is exactly what I'm after. Think Canterbury (Kent), but closer to the city. .

Have you been to Sydney before? I ask, because if you're looking for an equivalent to Canterbury, then I'm bewildered why you'd expect to find it within the inner ring of suburbs. Would you expect to find Canterbury in the inner suburbs of London? If not, why would you imagine Sydney is any different? It's a big bustling city. Because Sydney is so leafy, you will often find surprisingly quiet backwaters in most suburbs, but quietness is prized - you'll find the cheaper houses are on a busy road, or next to the train station.

Thanks for the blue rinse alert - that could've been a close call! LOL.

 

I'm still after a village atmosphere, but one that feels like history in a heritage sense more than a 70s sense. I get the 70s vibe from the pics I've been able to find of Oakley, but of course very difficult to tell simply from photos. Woollahra looks like it has the makings of a village feel in terms of its architecture, and really the butcher, baker and candlestick maker are nice extras that I'm not too fussed about, though being able to choose the thickness of lamb chops wouldn't be a bad thing Seriously though, the only reason for looking at Leichhardt and others are because of their proximity to the CBD and somewhat of a leafy existence - and Centennial Park isn't far either.

 

 

I recommended Oatley, not Oakley! Huge difference, but it sounds like you're determined to be very close to the CBD.

I'm not sure what you mean by a village atmosphere now. I'd pictured it as everyone-knows-everybody-else, friendly shopkeepers, sense of community, tranquil setting - which is something you don't get in the inner suburbs of Sydney.

I honestly don't think you can get a "feel" for anywhere from photos. I lived in Paddington and Edgecliff for several years and while I like Woollahra, I would never call it a village - unless you think places like Chelsea or Knightsbridge have a village feel. Lots of inner city suburbs have exactly the same architecture and leafy streets shown in those photos, that's typical old Sydney.

One thing to consider is that you can't let your cats out at night in Australia, so if you feel your cats would be unhappy with that, you might need to consider rehoming them.

Some people do put the cat out at night here, but that's only because they're either uninformed or irresponsible! Most Australian native animals are nocturnal, and there's still a lot of wildlife in the cities, so a cat loose at night can do an enormous amount of damage to the local population.

When we are well and we feel that we have years ahead of us (and think we're invincible) we think we have all the time in the world to do certain things. It's like we hold a certain amount of cards which have our dreams, values, beliefs etc written on them and we have them in a certain order of priorities. When you have an SEE these cards all get thrown up in the air and we gather them back up, but then they're in a different order. What was once low down on your priorities may now be at the top.

 

If your cards are now in a totally different order there's a reason for it. Don't ignore it, they're in a different order for a reason. It sounds like you've already made your mind up and are going to return home anyway, but I hope this analogy helps you to make sense of things in a different way

 

 

Wonderful post!