Blewyn

Employer is obliged to pay for flights.

How can there be a housing market boom and a building recession at the same time ? Doesn't make sense.......building should boom to balance the housing supply (in theory).....

Check with immigration, but I don't think an employer is permitted to make an employee pay for their own 457.... http://migrationblog.immi.gov.au/2013/12/10/457-sponsors-pay-your-own-way/

Have you been to Middlesborough ?

Indeed, and this is as it should be, and it is also the warning I wish to make to migrants considering the 457. As you state above, 457s are automatically behind PRs and Aussies - so tread carefully.

OMG seriously have you read the thread ? There's an Aussie employer who specifically states they would be reluctant to hire a 457. Employability vs CV fair point I hear they're hiring down the hair-splitting factory get in quick ! As I stated already I have been told quite specifically that there is a job available for me but I cannot be hired due to the 457. I won't go into the specifics. Notwithstanding that issue, as a general rule Aussies and PRs get first dabs at a job, then 457s are considered only of locals are not available (all other things being equal). If you're in a specialised field like mine, you can easily find yourself out in the cold at a time when no other slots happen to be available, competing with locals who have an automatic advantage (as indeed they should, in all fairness). I have no idea why some of the posters here seem to feel an emotional need to point the finger and witter on about how it worked for them....

I'm not on the plane yet !!! Just wanted to alert potential migrants to the risk - I feel there's a little too much economy with the actualite when it comes to just how easily you can find yourself in the departure lounge..

As already stated, I have already been told by a prospective employer that they would like to hire me but could not because of the 457.

Tappers2Oz I'm sorry but you are deluding yourself. The 457 visa is a black mark, and puts all your Australian / PR competitors ahead of you (all other factors being equal). People deserve to know this, so they can judge for themselves the likelihood of their job remaining viable for the 2-3years required to obtain PR, and balance that against whatever they may be leaving behind in their home country.

I don't need anyone to blame - I have been treated grossly unfairly and I know exactly who by, but that's beside the point. The point is I ended up out of work, and this damn 457 visa is stopping me from getting new work. I'd be in work now if I was here on a permanent visa. That's why I want to warn people about the 457. The 457 was the only visa available to me at the time.

I'd hate to think of somebody giving up an established, secure and rewarding career to come here on a 457 instead of bargaining for PR. It's only right that they should be fully informed, wouldn't you say ?

You could research all you like - but is there anywhere it is made clear that being on a 457 is a black mark on a CV ? If research shows that you can work in Australia while on a spousal 457, wouldn't it be natural to assume that you can work on the same basis as everyone else, once in the country ? Just trying to get the message out there. Obviously some job markets are more buoyant than others for various reasons (in my case I'm just too specialised), so don't assume that just because it worked out for you it's as easy for everyone else.

No, it was obtained legitimately under a job heading which covers my area of expertise, but is too general for me to be able to qualify on a skills/points basis. I absolutely did ! In fact I was assured by my employer (verbally) that they would sponsor me for it. Apparently it's a visa not just a work permit :-). Not sure why you're lecturing me about this and pointing the finger when I'm posting a warning to people thinking of coming here on a 457. It's only right that they should be aware of the risks, no ?

I make the 'straight from the horse's mouth' argument because an Australian employer said on this very thread that she would be reluctant to hire someone on a 457 visa. This aspect of the 457 - that yes your spouse can work and you can move to a new employer BUT you're NOT on a level playing field with Aussie workers - is one that is not exactly hidden, but there was NO mention of it from anyone at all. There are busy industries of course that benefit from the use of temporary international workers, but what if the company loses a contract ? You mention oil & gas projects - right now there are many Aussie workers coming back from Iraq due to the troubles there. Any 457 holder looking for work will have to compete with them.... I don't think that a written commitment to sponsor for PR after 2 years employment is a "wild demand". I know people who demanded PR upfront and got it (this is what I should have done). Refusal to provide such a commitment indicates that perhaps the employer's true intentions are for a temporary period of employment..

You assume that the content of my post is all I'm focussed on. Not so. The point of the post is to warn others. It's true that I didn't fully research the 457 before coming here, but then I didn't expect to be in my current situation. My line of work isn't short-term jobs, it's a career and I never expected to be turfed out before I could achieve a PR, especially in a growing economy. Besides, as mentioned already my work is highly specialised, and doesn't exist on the SOL, so getting a different visa is tricky. Just because it worked for you don't assume that if it doesn't work for others it must be their fault. As previously stated, the thing that people need to be aware of is that the 457 is presented as a short-term visa that you can take with you from employer to employer - with no suggestion that it in any way disadvantages the job applicant. The truth is that it does.

In my case my field of expertise is so specialised that it simply does not exist on the VETASSESS register. I can't be tested because there is no tester, so they put me on a 447 under a more general role.

Of course immigration rules and SOL lists can change, obviously the company would not be able to sponsor the PR application if the job was no longer on the list or the visa no longer existed. However, even companies that are taken over or change policy have to honour their existing contracts. They can't simply ignore a contractual obligation just because there's new management.

For a PR visa ? Gladly !! If I pay double can I have one now ? ;-)

Interesting point. Had I been sponsored for a 186/187, I'd be in a new job with a competitor right now. Maybe that's your answer ?

Your employer is clearly very different indeed to mine... There you have it - from the horse's mouth. A 457 counts against you on your CV. Be warned ! Visa agents will smooth-talk and say "nah mate it'll be right you'll get PR in two years" and companies will behave the same, but if your organisation has a downturn and you're out the door, you're up against Aussies and PR holders, and you have 90 days to find a job that will sponsor you for a 457, or be kicked out of the country. Make your company give you PR from the start, or a written contractual commitment to sponsor you for PR after 2 years. If they refuse, there's a good risk they're not intending to keep you permanently.

It was very much sold to me as a permanent job that would move to PR as soon as possible. There were no written guarantees of course, but I never expected to be in my current situation. The main warning I want to make is with regards to finding a new job, either for the primary applicant or the spouse. You're not on a level playing field with the locals !! My wife's 457 visa pretty much rules her out for all government employers (her main market). That's according to them, not according to some visa agent.

That's what I wanted to make people aware of - be careful, employers are out to play you, and the 457 is NOT a permanent move. It's thin ice.

I just want to spread the news because I certainly wasn't aware of the disadvantage a 457 causes to job applicants....and I bet there are plenty of people who come over on a 457 imagining that the spouse can go ahead and work just like any Australian, but the situation is not so. Beware ! By moving here on a 457 you are quite possibly giving up a secure, permanent position for a temporary slot, and when your company decides it can find a cheap young Aussie to fill your shoes, you're gone.

Of course it is. It means you go behind every Australian or PR candidate with comparable skills. How is that not a black mark ? see the above That's not what the people at immigration said. It's also not what it says here : http://www.visassimply.com/457-temporary-business-visa "An Australian employer must show that there is lack of skills in Australian citizen or permanent resident to do the skilled job before nominating a foreign skilled worker." Yep, you will. Assuming your Aussie / PR co-workers are all of a similar skill level (or even nowhere close, but someone's mate) , you're closest to the door. Because the way companies play it is that it's a temporary 4-year contract due to the terms of the visa, but in fact it's permanent employment as far as they're concerned. The test for that is this - demand a written commitment to PR sponsorship. if they refuse, it's obviously a ploy to bring you over temporarily, to plug a gap. The 457 is 4 years. If an employee reaches 2 years, sponsoring them for PR does not tie the employer to them for another 2, it merely requires them to demonstrate that the employee is likely to be needed for another 2 years. Both employer and employee can still terminate the contract for any of the usual reasons. And ? They're employees, not indentured servants. Be competitive and employees will stay.

My wife certainly wasn't asked "are you on a 457 ? Please be aware your employment prospects are very limited" when they accepted her $20k for her course.......