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2tigers

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  1. 2tigers
    Thats right, but you need a court order to state your the main carer, they wont just give you a permanent visa.
  2. 2tigers
    I don't think it quite works like that? I do believe In that scenario she would still be on a temp spouse visa for 2yrs. If they split up she would have to inform Immigration who would giver her 3 scenarios to enable her to stay and continue for her permanent visa - (1) if the father is proven to be abusive (2) if the father has died (3) if she has a court order to say she is the main carer. And until her visa is permanent then she still can't claim any support from centerlink...... how do I know? It happened to me.
  3. 2tigers
    Gee thats a complicated situation. I am not legally trained and can only state what I know due to what I have been through..... my instincts would say that as you are both the parents then the HC would apply and you would need the fathers permission to leave. As for your visa, it all depends on what visa you arrive on....... Legal advice, thats what I would take if I was you, but unfortunately not all legal teams in the UK and AU are fully versed on the HC, so your best route to find the most knowledgeable solicitors on the HC would be to contact 'Reunite' in the UK, just google them and they will point you in the right direction. They have a list of solicitors all over the UK who specialise in the HC and can advise you. Before you move, why don't you express your concerns to your partner and ask that if it doesnt work out, that he would allow you all to go home?
  4. 2tigers
    No, in fact its quite different. When I have more time later I will try to find the history or something more factual based, or maybe someone reading this who is interested could? My Lawyer told me the history but I would prefer some facts to back it up before I posted it really. Basically, from what I recall - its only over recent years where international relationships are more common; where the mother is known to relocate to the fathers country to bring the child up rather than the father relocate to the mothers land, that this type of 'abduction' is common. Many many years ago, (I was told) it was brought about to prevent men abducting a child abroad from the mother, never to be seen again. Not the other way around. As we know in history, its always been the mother who has had full parental responsibility, a child would always stay with the mother. As time has moved on, fathers have more rights and the HC, regardless of how old the law is, caters for this.
  5. 2tigers
    This is all so true, I am so fortunate I was able to relocate back home........
  6. 2tigers
    Your very welcome, there are many people on this site that will assist whenever they can. Just a little note, the Hague Convention and International Relocation are two separate cases in a court. The HC only ever comes into play if a parent takes the children out of the country they are residing in without the other parents permission. There are LOTS of family law solicitors that are not well versed at all in the HC, thats both in the UK and Australia, its quite scary some of the advice that I was given initially, and when that solicitor was called into court the judge asked him if he understood the HC and scarily his reaction was 'yeah, kind of'....... if you wanted to get in touch with a solicitor who specialises in relocation and the HC then the best base for you is to look at this website - http://www.reunite.org/ Reunite were my saviour, they are a free organisation with a wealth of experience with relocations and the HC, they will be able to give you a list of solicitors in the UK, as most give the first 30-60 mins free, this would hopefully be enough time to direct you the right way. Good luck, I hope you never need to reflect back on this thread though.
  7. 2tigers
    Hi there, I am glad the post is making people aware, you are being very wise in discussing the 'what if' with your partner. If I was you, to put your mind at rest, I would make an appointment with a solicitor who specialises in family law. Ask for it to be put in writing that he gives you permission to return to the UK with the children, and any future children to permanently relocate if you so wish (or however you wanted it wording). I have never done this, and I am not legally trained, but I do know that if you were both already in Australia and he put it in writing that you could leave with the children permanently, that this is seen as giving his permission. So for him to write it before you leave one would say it makes sense for the courts to take that into consideration. BUT I am not legally trained, I am just one who has been through this and it was the worst time of my life, I am one of the few who was able to return home.
  8. 2tigers
    Sorry to read your friends in this situation. The only thing that I can see where things look good in her favour is the age of the children. Once a child reaches a certain age (approx 12 I think, but no quotes) the courts listen to their choices. If she is looking at a reconciliation, it may be worth her while to request that they all move to the UK as a family, to help the situation if they ever split again and to provide her with a support network if the abuse continues..... once the parents make a conscious decision to move back to the UK then the children become residents of the UK same as when they went to the AU, and the HC would stop them leaving the UK. Does that make sense? Her other option would be to seek legal advice and get the ball rolling asap for an international relocation. This can cost up to and over $100,000 to fund. Can take over 2yrs of draining court cases where all past and present is dragged through the courts. Leaving AU is not simple, and even in cases where there is abuse toward the other parent the courts don't always stop contact with the children. If this was the case her chances of returning may be slim as the courts are very active in promoting relationships between father and child, regardless of his abuse to the mother or his contributions financially. BUT saying that, the age of the children do go in her favour, the older they are the more chances of their wishes being heard in court. Best of luck to her
  9. 2tigers
    Hi there readybrek, I am sorry to read your having a dilemma after only being in the country a short time. Unfortunately I know of a situation (court case) the same as yours and the outcome was not good. I urge you to get legal advice, make an appointment with legal aid preferably in the city where there are more staff, quicker for an appointment and a bigger chance of finding a lawyer who is clued up with the HC and immigration. The couple split up within a few months of arriving, the family (dad, mum and son) were in AU due to his visa linked to his job. The Dad met someone else within months of arriving and moved out of the rental, the mum got on a plane with her son and brought their son home. HC began and she had to return her son to AU. A two year court case began, she wanted to bring her son back to the UK, but the law stated that she had broken the HC and although she could not legally stay there, the son could still legally stay there with the father, and so she had to apply for an international relocation order. Within the two years of her and her son being there she wasn't allowed to work or claim any benefits, she lived off hand outs and church goodwill. She had to sell the family home in the UK to fund the case. Now the twist - within the two years of the court case, not only had her son now began school and settled, but she had met someone and changed her mind about wanting to come home to the UK. The courts wouldn't allow it, and after spending over £100,000 on legal fees and then uprooting her son from his father, new life and her from her new partner - she was told she had 28 days to leave the country, with the child. So she came home and is now rebuilding her life again here in the UK. It is so complicated its unreal, I was also sent back to AU for over 2 years whilst the courts made decisions, I was unable to work or claim any benefits, I suffered terribly and my absolute heart goes to anyone who goes through this. I hang around on this website to give what little advice I can about this topic, I wish I could help you but it really is legal advice you need.
  10. 2tigers
    I'll message you so not to paste all my life on here LOL
  11. 2tigers
    Hi Neil, sorry I should have made myself easier to understand. From what I can read above, it sounds to me that if your enjoying your life there, have what you consider a good job and what you would constitute a good life etc, that you wouldn't let her take the children home? The problem I see here is, that yes if your enjoying your life there you would see AU as a better life for the children. But your wife may think totally opposite, this is where the problem lies for a lot of people, we all have different thoughts. A lot of women who have been caught up in this have ended up depressed and felt like a prisoner due to the father not allowing the children to return. If your wife doesn't feel confident that you would allow her and the children to return if she didn't like it, then she will feel anxious, its such a huge decision to make. What I have found out that money and material objects mean nothing if your not happy, happiness in yourself means the world. Feel free to PM me if you like, If there is anything I can do to help please ask
  12. 2tigers
    There is a way around this, its called 'Mirror Orders' where one country makes an order and you can get it made in the next country in their court, so it stands in both countries. i have them. Also, you may find that for some people they don't feel AU is the best place to bring children up, I actually feel my children have a better life in the UK. It really is all a personal choice. I personally would see red flags if I was asked to sign something similar to what your proposing Neil, your wife may need a clear answer before she decides to go and she would be wise to demand that answer too - you either agree she goes home with the children if she is not happy, before she agrees to emigrate, or not. No conditions on regards to material issues, and I doubt your son will be surfing and have a close network of mates for many years to come, he is at an age where he can adapt anywhere tbh. I know its difficult to think of the what if's, but looking at your life in the UK where you are all stable right now, compared to a life in AU where it may become unstable, it may come down to selfish reasons for either country, but always look back to where you came from (UK) and how happy ALL of you are right now. A dream is a dream but it may not work out for all of you, so empathy might be needed somewhere along the line for those not happy. Saying that, I think you and your Mrs are being wise in exploring all avenues here. Good luck, I do hope it works out for all of you.
  13. 2tigers
    Jeepers veryhopeful, what a journey! I admire your strength and I hope that your life there continues to be happy for you all. I hope you do not have to go through any kind of court in AU, its a very different system, over in AU the father has 50% custodial rights, so a lot of split families only have their children 50% of the time, unlike in the UK where most fathers would have their children at the weekends or every other. One tip for you, if you ever feel the need for help (contact arrangements) try to stay away from the courts and try to make arrangements through mediation first. All the very best of luck, enjoy your new life
  14. 2tigers
    After all these years I have never looked at it like that Quoll - Thank you
  15. 2tigers
    So pleased someone read this before they moved. The thing I found was that as a single parent you just want family and friends around for support. Its very difficult being alone on the other side of the world with no-one. Good luck and I hope you never have to make this decision
  16. 2tigers
    Its awful isn't it, having to think to the future in such a cautious way, but its life, so many people split up and turn into someone they don't even recognise themselves. Empathy kinda goes out of the window in lots of cases, children are torn and both parents lives are put through turmoil. Its not a case of just moving to another state, its an international relationship. If I was you I would speak to your partner about this thread and get his opinion, then seek legal advice to see what can be put in place. Good luck.
  17. 2tigers
    What would also be taken into consideration in a case like this, if it ever went to court for a relocation back to the UK, is a Mothers case against a Fathers in court. In confussedd's case, the mother would obviously have a good paper trail of evidence which shows the Father deliberately trying to get the child into AU, knowing they are not together anymore. It may be seen as deceitful. He would get the H.C part of the case paid for if she did abduct, but would have to pay out $$$ for the relocation case. It could cost a LOT of $$$ to go through the court case, and if the courts knew how this whole process had been performed, then he may also lose his child back to the UK and be left with a lot of debt. In my personal experience, relocation cases in AU are treated as thoroughly as any high profile case, no stone left unturned. Our trial lasted 10 days and cost me & my ex a lot of money, I am not talking 10's of thousands either. Please do not put yourself in this situation.
  18. 2tigers
    If the parent and child are on a tourist visa then they are able to come and go as they please. It is when BOTH parents make a conscious decision to relocate this is when the HC comes into play. Even if both parents and child were born and have lived most of their lives in the UK, once they as a family relocate, even on temporary visa's, you cannot just jump on a plane with your child, you need the other parents permission. Regardless. If you do-not get permission the HC can come into place and the child would be sent back. Confusedd - I very much doubt your ex would be eligible to come into AU on a partner visa as you are no longer a couple. One of you should inform immigration of your change in circumstances. She would need to apply under a different visa category if she was to move to AU now. I am very sorry for your circumstances, if I was you I would seek legal advice to see if you can get regular contact organised. Sooner you do this the better as days move into months into years so easily. I wish you luck.
  19. 2tigers
    I am sorry to read your situation, your right in saying you cannot invoke this law, this law is for a very different reason. I am sat here thinking that It may be easier if you looked at it from her situation (Putting aside the thoughts she is trying to keep your daughter away from you), if she has had second thoughts (which it sounds like she obviously has) then she may not want to move to the other side of the world, not many people would in that situation. She more than likely has her support network where she is, and has made the decision that for her to be happy and healthy that is where she needs to be. If she moved to the other side of the world for a man she does not want to be with, what quality of life would that be for her. This would reflect on your child too. Is it not possible that you could move over to the UK to be closer to your child? I am assuming at some stage you may have lived there before? Sorry if this is not what you wanted to read, but international relationships can at times be heartbreaking when it comes to situations like this. The decision may well come down to you, where do you want to live? In AU without your child or UK with her. My ex is an Aussie and he wishes to stay there, he is easily able to financially live and work in the UK if he wished to be a bigger part of his childs life, but his priority is in AU with his family and his support network (goes both ways hey). We work around this with visits, webcams and telephone. Its not the perfect situation but its the best we can do as neither of us wants to live in each others countries. All is not lost, if you wished to stay in AU there are ways for you to still be part of your childs life. If you are not getting any joy you could seek legal help and I am sure a judge would secure your involvement if needed. Best of luck to you
  20. 2tigers
    The Hague convention does not come into force on an unborn child. If she gives birth in the UK and stays there, as far as I am aware, there isn't much you can do. She is within her rights and wouldn't be breaking any law. It is when the child is born that it complicates matters.
  21. 2tigers
    So right, its a long journey but worth it! My ex is terrible with this, he see's it as I 'Stole his children' but the facts are in writing with court. So he calls me at any opportunity and really messes with the children's minds. If He was a good father and husband I would still be there, the Judge saw that too. That little bit of evidence is enough to know It was right for the children and they will also see this when they get older. Some people act out of bitterness, unfortunately that reaction has long term affects.
  22. 2tigers
    Must also add, in Australia, if you split up and are happy (or not for a lot of cases) to stay in Australia, you can not even move state without the Fathers consent. You have to stay close to the Father so he can have access to his children if he wants to. BUT HE can move state or country if he wants to, you don't have a leg to stand on if you want him to stay in your child's life. Its all backwards, this law needs revisiting and updating! The bottom line is this, if you are thinking of going to live in AU or you live there now, and have children or want children, just speak to each other about this law and come to an agreement of what would happen if you split up. Get it in writing with a Lawyer. Protect your future and your child's just as you do when you write a will. Relationships can get so bitter when they crumble.
  23. 2tigers
    I'd definitely consider giving my story but not our names. It really should be exposed more, its as though they don't want people to know about what could happen, only the good is advertised.
  24. 2tigers
    This thread pulls me back again and again, I hate reading about people in this situation, yet feel I need to give my experience on here in case it helps someone. For me, when I was asked if I would stay in the country with my children, I was that depressed my reaction was being afraid I would hurt myself. I was that depressed I often had suicidal thoughts. The Psychiatrist who took our case reported that my thoughts were to be taken seriously. I truly believe that if I had not been able to come home I would have lost my children completely, I would either not be here at all, or I would be in a ward to protect myself. That is such a scary thought, but the situation I was in was out of control. I've been home over a year now, I am such a different person. I'm stronger and in a position where depression was a distant memory. I feel so deeply for those stuck in Australia against their will, keep strong. I hope that one day Immigration will pop in a little leaflet explaining what would happen if it didn't work out. Thats all it would take to make people aware, some kind of check list, encouraging people to discuss things before the move.
  25. 2tigers
    There's actually about 78 signatories. Not many countries left in the world now that don't enforce the HC.
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