Employer Doing the Wrong Thing

[KerryGold]

Hi all,

 

My Friend (really a friend not a hypothetical Case) was driving a work ute and backed into another car. his employer wants to keep it off the insurance and is now deducting $500 per week from his wages. This is wrong and I know the Ombudsman would make them fix it.

 

The problem is that his employer has given him to go ahead for ENS 186 TRTS and that starts next month- I reckon the employer would pull him out regardless of the application stage just to get back at him- I'm not joking this guy is an ass.

 

I told my friend to keep his head down, say nothing and when he gets his residency then go to the Ombudsman.

 

Is this the best advice?

 

Comments and advice appreciated

[Keith and Linda]

Seems fair enough advice, not sure if it is legally sound, but make sure your friend does not sign anything agreeing to the deduction, keep all payslips, would be interesting to see how it is put on the pay slip.

I can not quite see what the Ombudsman has to do with it as it between your friend and his boss and is just a financial deal of sorts, if no insurance claim then the ombudsman will not get involved.

Good luck.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Keith and Linda
added text

[KerryGold]

Seems fair enough advice, not sure if it is legally sound, but make sure your friend does not sign anything agreeing to the deduction, keep all payslips, would be interesting to see how it is put on the pay slip.

I can not quite see what the Ombudsman has to do with it as it between your friend and his boss and is just a financial deal of sorts, if no insurance claim then the ombudsman will not get involved.

Good luck.

 

It is against the law for an employer to make a deduction from your wages obviously unless you agree to it and looking at the Ombudsman Website it is unlawful to make him pay for an accident that happened at work? There is no financial deal- the employer is just enforcing it.

[blossom]

What ombudsman are you talking about? As far as I know they can make you pay for any excess. It is quite odd to not go through the insurance though.

[Keith and Linda]

It is against the law for an employer to make a deduction from your wages obviously unless you agree to it and looking at the Ombudsman Website it is unlawful to make him pay for an accident that happened at work? There is no financial deal- the employer is just enforcing it.

 

Just trying to help here mate, it is a sort of financial arrangement between employer and employee, an arrangement you advised your friend is suitable until a time which suits him and then that is when the legality of such will come into question, as he knew deductions were being made and for what reason they were being made and why wasn't action taken at time of deductions. The whole situation has nothing to do with any ombudsman. There is no legal requirement for your friend to have to pay the excess as the excess is between the insurer and policy holder, so unless the excess payment was clearly advised under the terms of use for company vehicle, or in the contract of employment, your friend can claim as far as he was concerned he was given the use of a fully insured vehicle.

Keeping quiet until residency may well be fair advice, claiming back the money further down the line is fraught with problems legally, however he may just be able to use it as a sort of threat to the employer to maybe come to some other arrangement.

Again good luck

[Rallyman]

What line of business is your friend in ?

The reason I ask similar thing is happening to somebody I know , would have thought that if you are driving a company vehicle it is the company insurance.would. be paying out unless it was made clear at times of appointment in his employment contract, might be in the small print,

[KerryGold]

Just trying to help here mate, it is a sort of financial arrangement between employer and employee, an arrangement you advised your friend is suitable until a time which suits him and then that is when the legality of such will come into question, as he knew deductions were being made and for what reason they were being made and why wasn't action taken at time of deductions. The whole situation has nothing to do with any ombudsman. There is no legal requirement for your friend to have to pay the excess as the excess is between the insurer and policy holder, so unless the excess payment was clearly advised under the terms of use for company vehicle, or in the contract of employment, your friend can claim as far as he was concerned he was given the use of a fully insured vehicle.

Keeping quiet until residency may well be fair advice, claiming back the money further down the line is fraught with problems legally, however he may just be able to use it as a sort of threat to the employer to maybe come to some other arrangement.

Again good luck

 

They are just making the deductions- no agreement http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/deducting-pay-and-overpayments

[KerryGold]

What line of business is your friend in ?

The reason I ask similar thing is happening to somebody I know , would have thought that if you are driving a company vehicle it is the company insurance.would. be paying out unless it was made clear at times of appointment in his employment contract, might be in the small print,

 

I would be in agreement with you. Isn't that the purpose of insurance? From what I know, there is no such fine print. Employer doesn't care as he knows my friend wants his residency. He called him abused him and said "that he wouldn't even be in the country only for him" Lovely attitude. They work 6hours away and get no travel etc.. 10days on 4 days off and he drives everybody else. The employer is really just doing the wrong thing and pushing as he knows that my friend is in between a rock and a hard place...

[Keith and Linda]

I would be in agreement with you. Isn't that the purpose of insurance? From what I know, there is no such fine print. Employer doesn't care as he knows my friend wants his residency. He called him abused him and said "that he wouldn't even be in the country only for him" Lovely attitude. They work 6hours away and get no travel etc.. 10days on 4 days off and he drives everybody else. The employer is really just doing the wrong thing and pushing as he knows that my friend is in between a rock and a hard place...

 

There are nearly always excess's on insurance, if there has been a few claims the insurer may put up the excess. How the employer (the Insured) passes on these excess's needs to be set down in conditions of use or in the contract of employment, the employer could have differing amounts that he may wish to pass on to the employee and this could be less or more than that of the insurer and could even be for the full cost of repairs, but that should be clear in terms/contract. Even insurers give differing excess rates for example due to age's of drivers and length time of having full license etc. The company I work for pass on the excess's as given by the insurer, which does vary by age etc. but if any damage is caused by illegal use of the vehicle (drink driving) we are liable for the whole cost of repair to the company vehicle, and most likely loss of job too.

Your friends boss does sound like a lot of an ar$e, and abusing your friend and fellow workers, but your friend, is he not, in a way abusing his boss too - to get what he wants regarding residency? where is the line? I would say there are several lines!

[blossom]

They are just making the deductions- no agreement http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/deducting-pay-and-overpayments

Did you look up his award to see what it says about accidents?

[Keith and Linda]

They are just making the deductions- no agreement http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/deducting-pay-and-overpayments

 

Look I am not saying what the boss, by the info you give on here, is doing things right in any way shape or form, but also it is not right to not correct it now, by not doing anything he is in effect agreeing to it, as he knew it was been deducted and why, but chose not contest it.

You are advising your friend to keep stum until he gets what he wants (residency) and then try to the money back later, it may or may not work, but it will get complicated and time/cost consuming.

[blossom]

Interestingly too, my partner drives for a living. He had an accident at crawling speed a few months ago. His works are paying the excess in their insurance, but he then got a bill from the third party insurance which is included in your rego for another excess. He was told by them (both insurance companies) that HE is responsible for that, even though it's a company vehicle registered to his company not him.

[KerryGold]

There are nearly always excess's on insurance, if there has been a few claims the insurer may put up the excess. How the employer (the Insured) passes on these excess's needs to be set down in conditions of use or in the contract of employment, the employer could have differing amounts that he may wish to pass on to the employee and this could be less or more than that of the insurer and could even be for the full cost of repairs, but that should be clear in terms/contract. Even insurers give differing excess rates for example due to age's of drivers and length time of having full license etc. The company I work for pass on the excess's as given by the insurer, which does vary by age etc. but if any damage is caused by illegal use of the vehicle (drink driving) we are liable for the whole cost of repair to the company vehicle, and most likely loss of job too.

Your friends boss does sound like a lot of an ar$e, and abusing your friend and fellow workers, but your friend, is he not, in a way abusing his boss too - to get what he wants regarding residency? where is the line? I would say there are several lines!

 

Well that was the agreement. My friend is generally pretty passive and it takes a lot to piss him off so I surprises me to see him like this. I suppose I am slightly biast regarding him as he is my friend. Thanks for your comments- I'll direct him towards this page

[KerryGold]

Interestingly too, my partner drives for a living. He had an accident at crawling speed a few months ago. His works are paying the excess in their insurance, but he then got a bill from the third party insurance which is included in your rego for another excess. He was told by them (both insurance companies) that HE is responsible for that, even though it's a company vehicle registered to his company not him.

 

Thanks Blossom. I would always have thought that the employee should be covered by the insurance and not have to pay. By the way is that your cat?

[blossom]

Thanks Blossom. I would always have thought that the employee should be covered by the insurance and not have to pay. By the way is that your cat?

Ha ha, yes, it's one of my three cats. :-)

 

Yes, we were very surprised by the 3rd party excess thing. Mostly that you have to pay two lots of excess for one accident with fully comp insurance.

 

It is very hard being tied to an employer. How much is the total they are actually taking? And how long until he'll have pr? Has he told his boss that he wants to go through the insurance? It makes you wonder really if he even has insurance.

[KerryGold]

Ha ha, yes, it's one of my three cats. :-)

 

Yes, we were very surprised by the 3rd party excess thing. Mostly that you have to pay two lots of excess for one accident with fully comp insurance.

 

It is very hard being tied to an employer. How much is the total they are actually taking? And how long until he'll have pr? Has he told his boss that he wants to go through the insurance? It makes you wonder really if he even has insurance.

 

Very pretty Cat!

 

Anyways, crisis averted- the employer just decided to put it through insurance and all is well again! I don't know why the employer even let the problem escalate in the first place- it doesn't make sense! Thanks to everyone for their comments!