Widowed spouse

[k8bug79]

Hello, I am after some advice and firstly I am aware of how strange this may seem in light of what I am about to write but I am here on my own with a million scenarios running through my head and need some answers.

 

We are hoping to get to Oz with me applying for a spouse visa to my husband who is a citizen by descent, naturally it is hard for us to imagine leaving our families when we have young children. Particuarly so my husbands side as they live in France and it is only distance that is preventing the support (my family live close but the support isn't really there)

We were hoping that when we were settled that they would go down the same process and get my MIL her spouse visa as my FIL is an Australia.

 

However the unimaginable happened yesterday. My FIL died very suddenly, they think it was a massive heart attack. No warning, nothing. We are all naturally devestated. My children have been deprived their grandfather and my husband is beside himself. My MIL is in a country she doesn't like and looking after her elderly mother and really just wants to come home. But she doesn't really have a home, she owns a house in the UK but we want to convince her to come down to where we are and be close to us. However her respoonse was that we would then b*&*£er off to Australia and leave her again. It got us thinking about the options open to her now to come with us. I should add that Lewis is an only child so she will be by herself once her mother has gone, she would wait until then as her Mother couldn't make the journey

 

Does she need to go down the parent visa route now? Which I know is very lengthy. I douby the contributory would work. Or my some mean feat of luck (which I am praying for but believe it would be a miracle) is she able to apply for a spouse visa as a widow of an Austrlian with an Australian son?

I know its a long shot and at this stage probably the least of our worries but knowing what options there are for her may make the next few weeks and months easier when it comes to making the big decisions.

Thanks

[Guest siamsusie]

Good morning Kate & Lewis,

 

I am so sorry to hear about your dilemma! Very sad..... maybe you could ask one of the moderators to move this to the Parent's thread, so that one of the agents could pick up your post. Also there are some very knowledgeable people that should be able to guide you as well.

 

I sincerely hope you can work out a solution.

 

Very best regards Susie

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/77756-brand-new-pio-parents-visa-thread-85.html

[k8bug79]

How do I ask a mod? do I just pm them?

[Guest siamsusie]

How do I ask a mod? do I just pm them?

 

Yes indeed, I see Peach is on this morning, see bottom of the front page, click on his name and send him a pm..

 

Its a very supportive thread and a mine of information and I sincerely hope your solution can be resolved.

 

Cheers Susie x

 

 

Edited to say Srp is also on! Colin can help you x

[Guest Guest31881]

Hi,

 

This thread is under Migration issues and hopefully an agent or someone with the correct knowledge will see it on this thread. i feel it may get lost in the Parent thread so I will leave it here for the time being, but I will keep an eye on the post, and move if it does not get any replies.:biggrin:

[Guest Guest31881]

bumping up, anyone who can help?

[k8bug79]

Thank you , I really appreciate it

[Guest Guest31881]

bumping up, hoping someone has some information.

[k8bug79]

Bumping in the hope of catching someone in the know :-)

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hello, I am after some advice and firstly I am aware of how strange this may seem in light of what I am about to write but I am here on my own with a million scenarios running through my head and need some answers.

 

We are hoping to get to Oz with me applying for a spouse visa to my husband who is a citizen by descent, naturally it is hard for us to imagine leaving our families when we have young children. Particuarly so my husbands side as they live in France and it is only distance that is preventing the support (my family live close but the support isn't really there)

We were hoping that when we were settled that they would go down the same process and get my MIL her spouse visa as my FIL is an Australia.

 

However the unimaginable happened yesterday. My FIL died very suddenly, they think it was a massive heart attack. No warning, nothing. We are all naturally devestated. My children have been deprived their grandfather and my husband is beside himself. My MIL is in a country she doesn't like and looking after her elderly mother and really just wants to come home. But she doesn't really have a home, she owns a house in the UK but we want to convince her to come down to where we are and be close to us. However her respoonse was that we would then b*&*£er off to Australia and leave her again. It got us thinking about the options open to her now to come with us. I should add that Lewis is an only child so she will be by herself once her mother has gone, she would wait until then as her Mother couldn't make the journey

 

Does she need to go down the parent visa route now? Which I know is very lengthy. I douby the contributory would work. Or my some mean feat of luck (which I am praying for but believe it would be a miracle) is she able to apply for a spouse visa as a widow of an Austrlian with an Australian son?

I know its a long shot and at this stage probably the least of our worries but knowing what options there are for her may make the next few weeks and months easier when it comes to making the big decisions.

Thanks

 

Hi k8bug

 

I am very sorry indeed to hear about your sudden and tragic bereavement. I have no medical training but my late husband suddenly keeled over in a similar way, with no prior warning that I had been able to recognise. Luckly, he was ashore when it happened (not out on his boat somewhere) and I was with him, so I hit 999 straightaway and got some competent medical help within minutes, which saved his life in the short term. However later on, at the hospital, Jim's consultant cardiologist told me that Jim had suffered a cardiac arrest. Although Jim was alive at the time (albeit doped up in Intensive Care) and he regained consciousness a few days later, the cardiologist doctor told me that it is extremely rare for anybody to survive a cardiac arrest unless it happens in a hospital. He proved to be right in the end.

 

However I do know what the utter trauma feels like because I have been there myself. I also know that nobody can really say anything helpful - it is simply enough to know that other people do care about the situation and about you and other members of FIL's close family.

 

With hindsight, part of me thinks that it is better if the person dies pretty well instantly. That way, the person does not suffer and probably doesn't even know anything about it. The way Jim was beaten up in Intensive Care whilst they battled to save him was horrific to watch and they only kept him going for another 3 weeks anyway. It is impossible to say that there is a "right" way and a "wrong" way with this one. I think that the instinct to save life is so strong that everybody just does it at the time and that then there is no point in dwelling on it later.

 

Now - you say that your FIL was an Australian? Presumably your MIL is not an Australian? Has she ever lived in Australia, though? If so, when did she live thee and how long for? There is something called a Former Resident Visa though I can't remember the detailed ins & outs of it, but please have a look at the links below:

 

Former Resident Visa (Subclass 151)

 

If MIL would not be eligible for a Former Resident Visa but she would be eligible for Parent migration in the future, once you and your OH have become *settled* Permanent Residents of Australia then I think that Parent migration is probably the only possibility.

 

How old is MIL at the moment, please? That would have a bearing on how to play the game with Parent migration, hence my question. The stuff about Parent migration is below:

 

Family - Visas & Immigration

 

You say:

Which I know is very lengthy. I doubt the contributory would work.

 

It takes forever to get a non-contributory Parent subclass 103 visa. The Parents Visa Centre predict 22 years at the moment, because there are over 15,000 applicants and the recent Minister for Immi (a guy called Evans) cut the annual quota of Parent 103 visas down to 700 visas a year. The PVC divided that into the number of applicants who are waiting patiently in an interninable Queue, and concluded that if the quota remains as low as it is, it will take about 22 years before a new applicant gets a Parent 103 visa.

 

That said, if the Parent happens to be in Australia and the Parent happens to be old enough, it is sometimes possible for the Parent to apply for an Aged Parent subclass 804 visa. Please see the link below:

 

Granted 804 Parent Bridging Visa - Poms In Adelaide

 

The quota of sc 804 visas was recently cut to 300 a year and the PVC reckon that it will probably involve an 18 year wait as a result. However, a lot of families consider that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, including a family who are dear friends of mine.

 

You say that you don't think that a Contributory Parent visa would be an option. Is that because of MiL's own mother or is there some other reason why you think it wouldn't work, please?

 

Obviously, nobody is likely to want to encourage MIL to think about long-term migration to Oz for several months or years as yet. She needs time to come to terms with her loss and to develop and then adjust to a new way of life for herself.

 

She would be able to visit Australia, though, either for short holidays or for longer ones:

 

Visa Options - Tourists - Visitors - Visas & Immigration

 

I hope the above is of some help.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[k8bug79]

Hi k8bug

 

I am very sorry indeed to hear about your sudden and tragic bereavement. I have no medical training but my late husband suddenly keeled over in a similar way, with no prior warning that I had been able to recognise. Luckly, he was ashore when it happened (not out on his boat somewhere) and I was with him, so I hit 999 straightaway and got some competent medical help within minutes, which saved his life in the short term. However later on, at the hospital, Jim's consultant cardiologist told me that Jim had suffered a cardiac arrest. Although Jim was alive at the time (albeit doped up in Intensive Care) and he regained consciousness a few days later, the cardiologist doctor told me that it is extremely rare for anybody to survive a cardiac arrest unless it happens in a hospital. He proved to be right in the end.

 

However I do know what the utter trauma feels like because I have been there myself. I also know that nobody can really say anything helpful - it is simply enough to know that other people do care about the situation and about you and other members of FIL's close family.

 

With hindsight, part of me thinks that it is better if the person dies pretty well instantly. That way, the person does not suffer and probably doesn't even know anything about it. The way Jim was beaten up in Intensive Care whilst they battled to save him was horrific to watch and they only kept him going for another 3 weeks anyway. It is impossible to say that there is a "right" way and a "wrong" way with this one. I think that the instinct to save life is so strong that everybody just does it at the time and that then there is no point in dwelling on it later.

 

Now - you say that your FIL was an Australian? Presumably your MIL is not an Australian? Has she ever lived in Australia, though? If so, when did she live thee and how long for? There is something called a Former Resident Visa though I can't remember the detailed ins & outs of it, but please have a look at the links below:

 

Former Resident Visa (Subclass 151)

 

If MIL would not be eligible for a Former Resident Visa but she would be eligible for Parent migration in the future, once you and your OH have become *settled* Permanent Residents of Australia then I think that Parent migration is probably the only possibility.

 

How old is MIL at the moment, please? That would have a bearing on how to play the game with Parent migration, hence my question. The stuff about Parent migration is below:

 

Family - Visas & Immigration

 

You say:

 

It takes forever to get a non-contributory Parent subclass 103 visa. The Parents Visa Centre predict 22 years at the moment, because there are over 15,000 applicants and the recent Minister for Immi (a guy called Evans) cut the annual quota of Parent 103 visas down to 700 visas a year. The PVC divided that into the number of applicants who are waiting patiently in an interninable Queue, and concluded that if the quota remains as low as it is, it will take about 22 years before a new applicant gets a Parent 103 visa.

 

That said, if the Parent happens to be in Australia and the Parent happens to be old enough, it is sometimes possible for the Parent to apply for an Aged Parent subclass 804 visa. Please see the link below:

 

Granted 804 Parent Bridging Visa - Poms In Adelaide

 

The quota of sc 804 visas was recently cut to 300 a year and the PVC reckon that it will probably involve an 18 year wait as a result. However, a lot of families consider that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, including a family who are dear friends of mine.

 

You say that you don't think that a Contributory Parent visa would be an option. Is that because of MiL's own mother or is there some other reason why you think it wouldn't work, please?

 

Obviously, nobody is likely to want to encourage MIL to think about long-term migration to Oz for several months or years as yet. She needs time to come to terms with her loss and to develop and then adjust to a new way of life for herself.

 

She would be able to visit Australia, though, either for short holidays or for longer ones:

 

Visa Options - Tourists - Visitors - Visas & Immigration

 

I hope the above is of some help.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

 

 

Thank you Gill for taking the time to write such an informative post and to pass on your experience of the loss of your husband. I agree that for the person involved it is probably the best way to go, it is just devesating for those left behind. I have had lots of sympathy and offers o company ain the last few days, as I am here on my own with the children and that is incredibly difficult trying not to grieve infront of them and continue with life as normal. I really appreciate you taking the time to share that.

 

Basically to summarise it is as I feared. My MIL have never been to Australia, my FIL was born there and left when he was a year and has never been back. It was fluke that we found out about my husbands entitlement to obtain citizenship by descent it made my fil realise he was actually entitled to return.

 

My MIL is 55 so Aged Parent visa is a long way off yet and I think the money involved in the contributory visa would be an issue, there isn't a lot spare and I think just to "give" that money away for a visa is unlikely, so I guess the reality we face is a very very very lengthy wait, or change our plans. Either that or we have to come to terms with the fact that we ae leaving her here by herself.

 

I hope I don't upset anyone by asking this, as I would hate for people to think that I was inder the impression we deserve a visa more than someone else, but do you know if the processing is strictly date processed or is there a priority system in place at all? Seems rediculous in one sense that there is such a hige wait for a visa that is designed to stop families being seperated but on the other hand I do see why.

 

It is just so devesating to us that it could havebeen all so simple a few onths ago and now we face years of seperation :-(

 

You are right any plans of immigration are certainly not in the fore front of our minds it will just help us work out the intermediate plans I guess.

 

Thank you again for sharing your compassion and advice.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Kate

 

No, there is nothing you can do to speed up the visa process. However, reading your first post, it seems that the facts are as follows:=

 

MIL lives in France but she doesn't like living in France? (In that case, I should think she would like it even less on her own?) Where does MIL's own mother live and how old is she, please? It sounds like GMIL also lives in France? If so, is GMIL French?

 

MIL has a house in the UK but it is nowhere near your own house. If she came back to the UK, would GMIL come with her?

 

It sounds callous but I'd be inclined to push MIL into applying for a Parent sc 103 visa as soon as your OH has become *settled.*

 

Settled where?

 

1. Can an Australian Citizen sponsor his widowed mother for a Parent 103 visa if he does not live in Oz at the time of the visa application?

 

2. If the answer to the question above is "yes," then does it make any difference if the Sponsor is actually a Citizen by descent who has never actually lived in Australia himself?

 

3. If the Sponsor does have to be living in Oz at the time of the Parent 103 application, that application is going to take forever to process. Presumably it would be OK if he lives in Oz for a while, applies to sponsor the Parent application, then he leaves Oz until maybe a year before the Parent visa is due to be granted?

 

I've posed these questions but I don't know the bluddy answers to them! I will try to get some help about this. Certainly the assumption is that the Sponsor must be living in Oz and settled in Oz at the time when he applies to sponsor his Parent. However I don't know whether that is simply an assumption or whether it is actually written into the relevant legislation somewhere.

 

Please could you leave it with me for a couple of days? The best person that I can think of to ask would be Welshtone. He is a Registered Migration Agent called Tony Coates, who lives out in Perth. Tony is brilliant for hugely academic questions like this one. However, some of the others might also know or they might be able to work it all out.

 

For the migration agents, please:-

 

For a bit of academic law rambling that might interest the migration agents but probably wouldn't interest you, Kate, as far as I know, the leading (and perhaps the only) case about the Settled Sponsor is Naiker. Which was the most irritating case on the planet because that was the one where the supposed sponsor was an NZ Citizen who was only 3 months old!

 

Naiker v Minister for Immigration & Multicultural & Indigenous Affairs [2002] FCA 888 (18 July 2002)

 

It does appear from a quick glance that the legislaton seems to talk about an NZ Citizen who has been lawfully resident in Oz for a "reasonable period." I have a feeling that the whole thing does require the Sponsor to be "lawfully resident" [in Oz] and to have been so for a "reasonable period."

 

Which would include the idea that an Aussie Citizen has to have been living in Oz for a "reasonable period" at the time when the Parent application is made. Policy says that this "reasonable period" can be as little as 3 months if the Sponsor is an Aussie Citizen.

 

However what about a situation where he is an Aussie Citizen by descent who has never lived in Oz? Would best practice say that 3 months would do for him too, or would it suggest that he should become fully and propertly *settled* in the same wasy as a Sponsor who is not an Aussie Citizen?

 

Jeez. I can feel my brain getting fried by the possibilities with Kate's situation because it is the first time that I have come across a situation in which the Sponsor does not necessarily intend to live in Oz for the whole of the next 25 years.

 

It seems to me that the issue here is to try to thrash out some possibilitles that might satisfy everybody involved but I can feel that I am getting stuck so I would really appreciate some help with this, please. It is very possible that I am making the whole thing unnecessarily complicated for myself, here!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[k8bug79]

Hi Kate

 

No, there is nothing you can do to speed up the visa process. However, reading your first post, it seems that the facts are as follows:=

 

MIL lives in France but she doesn't like living in France? (In that case, I should think she would like it even less on her own?) Where does MIL's own mother live and how old is she, please? It sounds like GMIL also lives in France? If so, is GMIL French?

 

MIL has a house in the UK but it is nowhere near your own house. If she came back to the UK, would GMIL come with her?

 

It sounds callous but I'd be inclined to push MIL into applying for a Parent sc 103 visa as soon as your OH has become *settled.*

 

Settled where?

 

1. Can an Australian Citizen sponsor his widowed mother for a Parent 103 visa if he does not live in Oz at the time of the visa application?

 

2. If the answer to the question above is "yes," then does it make any difference if the Sponsor is actually a Citizen by descent who has never actually lived in Australia himself?

 

3. If the Sponsor does have to be living in Oz at the time of the Parent 103 application, that application is going to take forever to process. Presumably it would be OK if he lives in Oz for a while, applies to sponsor the Parent application, then he leaves Oz until maybe a year before the Parent visa is due to be granted?

 

I've posed these questions but I don't know the bluddy answers to them! I will try to get some help about this. Certainly the assumption is that the Sponsor must be living in Oz and settled in Oz at the time when he applies to sponsor his Parent. However I don't know whether that is simply an assumption or whether it is actually written into the relevant legislation somewhere.

 

Please could you leave it with me for a couple of days? The best person that I can think of to ask would be Welshtone. He is a Registered Migration Agent called Tony Coates, who lives out in Perth. Tony is brilliant for hugely academic questions like this one. However, some of the others might also know or they might be able to work it all out.

 

For the migration agents, please:-

 

For a bit of academic law rambling that might interest the migration agents but probably wouldn't interest you, Kate, as far as I know, the leading (and perhaps the only) case about the Settled Sponsor is Naiker. Which was the most irritating case on the planet because that was the one where the supposed sponsor was an NZ Citizen who was only 3 months old!

 

Naiker v Minister for Immigration & Multicultural & Indigenous Affairs [2002] FCA 888 (18 July 2002)

 

It does appear from a quick glance that the legislaton seems to talk about an NZ Citizen who has been lawfully resident in Oz for a "reasonable period." I have a feeling that the whole thing does require the Sponsor to be "lawfully resident" [in Oz] and to have been so for a "reasonable period."

 

Which would include the idea that an Aussie Citizen has to have been living in Oz for a "reasonable period" at the time when the Parent application is made. Policy says that this "reasonable period" can be as little as 3 months if the Sponsor is an Aussie Citizen.

 

However what about a situation where he is an Aussie Citizen by descent who has never lived in Oz? Would best practice say that 3 months would do for him too, or would it suggest that he should become fully and propertly *settled* in the same wasy as a Sponsor who is not an Aussie Citizen?

 

Jeez. I can feel my brain getting fried by the possibilities with Kate's situation because it is the first time that I have come across a situation in which the Sponsor does not necessarily intend to live in Oz for the whole of the next 25 years.

 

It seems to me that the issue here is to try to thrash out some possibilitles that might satisfy everybody involved but I can feel that I am getting stuck so I would really appreciate some help with this, please. It is very possible that I am making the whole thing unnecessarily complicated for myself, here!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

 

 

My word Gill, you certainly go above and beyond and I do not know hwo to thank you enough. I have just walked in from the school run and basics of your questions above are, Yes her Mother is alive and with her in France, no they are both British and living in France in the same hosue and GMIL is 90 and yes GMIL will be returning with her when they return to their hosue in Norfolk compared to our Cornwall. I flicked through your thread above and the info was great particularly the "cheap parent visas" as we may not get to Oz for couple of years yet then in reality with GMIL still alive and not necessarily going anywhere too soon then maybe in less than 10 years she could go for that option which may in reality be only a wait of a few years, in the mean time she could maybe do tourist visas and get a taste before commiting and go through that route.

 

Would be good to know about the settled option, I think I thought about this a while back and vaguely recall it saying somewhere about being in Oz and it would make sense that you were. However it woudl also be reasonable (to us not DIAC) to say we are sponsoring her and will go when she can and if it takes 10 years to get her visa we'll stay with her until then?????

 

 

I'll look at this all in a bit more depth tonight when the children are in bed and my brain might be less fried. Again a million thanks yous. You are amazing

Kate