Blue Flu

1 hour ago, jimmyay1 said:

A lot of the attraction for fairly everyday working and middle class British migrants 20-30 years ago was that they could buy into the classic "aussie lifestyle" suburbs - reasonably well off areas in  the main metropolitan centres or other places with a really good quality of life and plenty of well paid jobs.

It was definitely a big draw, many bought in without mortgages, and could genuinely transition to a better lifestyle than they had in the uk.  

Many coming now feel superficially better off ( bigger houses, better weather) but very long commutes, congestion, long working days,  being based in outer suburbs miles from anything much other than a characterless strip mall  - and certainly not the "dream", pool, trendy area  etc  achievable by the average person in times past. 

You only need to look at the type of suburb and home featured on WDU for the average migrant , and  then match it with your experience of the lifestyle and locations the better off people in Syd and Melbourne live, to see there is a big and growing disconnect between expectations of Brits who wish to emigrate and the reality of where they will end up being based and what they can afford.    

People want the pool, garden,  short commute, nice high street etc.  The reality  is that so many people in these cities now live in apartments or townhouses with no back yard of much size and very few will be able to afford the space etc to have pools unless they live far out or in a cheap, less desirable area. Whilst the outer suburbia in the UK and close to the countryside areas are expensive, in Australia, outer suburbs are generally seen as poor suburbs with low amenity and full of relatively less well off first generation Indian, Chinese and, inceasingly, British migrants. 

The desirable inner areas have become hard to afford unless you are very well off. 

Perhaps in years to come the exchange rates, house prices in uk compared to oz, etc will make it more worth it again.   

I can see the possible attraction of someone on a WHV , still in their twenties, without children, feeling the desire to stay on, but already established with a family? Why would you put yourself through that? 

Class divisions have certainly greatly expanded in Australia. With housing a little odd. Either massive Mcmansions build on too often small blocks, or small villa type constructions , built too close to neighbours, too often with disputes over one thing or another. Even if most keep to themselves and are hardly social.

It should be remembered also, that living inner city or close to, too often endures high strata costs. Checking out Cairns recently was astounded at the high strata. It's almost if paying rent. 

Another issue is drugs. I would always check out to the best of my ability if drug using or manufacture is detectable. It can make life most unpleasant. Speaking with real estate agents, it is everywhere.

On 28/04/2021 at 20:36, jimmyay1 said:

I feel for may British people who were thinking of emigrating to Australia and for whom even the cheaper states and areas are probably now forever out of reach in terms of buying a house. 

For anyone wanting to move to Aus the high cost of housing is going to become a real disincentive to bothering if they already live in a reasonable but better value area overseas. 

It just adds to the consideration of it being worthwhile transporting one's life to the other side of the world or not. That's an increasingly hard thing to justify, I suspect. Clearly very massive changes from those that emigrated in earlier periods for sure. Clearly housing is essential so a big consideration, but we should recall many (most) should have profited from UK housing inflation as well. A lot will depend just how much a mortgage one will need to take out. One thing for certain, few will be able to but outright these days, which was often the case some twenty years back when house prices were much lower than better UK places. 

But it is also the sort of area able to be brought into. Like everywhere, there are suburbs in all Australian cities, (and towns) probably wouldn't be chosen for any reason other than price. If not for social problems, then lack of infrastructure (often two go together) or sheer distance to get anywhere. Obviously housing is but one possible disincentive. But a very important one. 

20 hours ago, Raul Senise said:

The shortage is not alleged, it is very real.

Yet for some reason locals cannot be enticed to work in these positions. I fully realize the difficulty finding people to work on some remote farms or road houses, but in tourist areas? Cafes and the like? Perhaps more a case of not wanting to work for wages on offer?

Just be aware that Vasse has drug issues like many areas in Australia and South West in general. It is a problem in small towns and I refer to meth. (ice) 

The worst possible outcome longer term would be for prices to continue to rise in a place like Perth. Just when prices were correcting , artificial stimulation is introduced by State Government , reintroducing the insanity. The cost will likely be enormous for the future as well as place great strain on government when the need comes to increase interest rates. (let alone those that borrowed to the hilt)

3 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

I think this is where we disagree, I know so many close friends who have had Covid deaths in the family from the UK, I worry about what would happen if the UK variant got some traction out here.

But it should be remembered that the track record between the two countries is very different. Boris Johnson was slow to react to initial infection and it got a foot hold in the nation. He initially took on a Trump like reaction placing the economy above national health well being. 

16 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

That’s fair, I think my point is i’m not sure we have the luxury of waiting until Q4, I worry the gvt. might regret that decision.

For me it’s weighing up a 20% (?) chance of a widespread outbreak killing 20,000 people vs 25 deaths from bloodclots.

I certainly feel your concern. But on a personal level I would not get the AZ vaccination as things stand. I fully understand that a changing situation may remove my distaste in getting  this vaccine and hence invalidate choice. But I do feel we, at least in Australia, are far removed from that scenario at the present time. 

As Mariswright confirmed there are special arrangements since corvid, that enable those on WHV's to extend their stay. This was due to the alleged chronic shortage of staff in service and tourist related areas, as well as farm type work. Do you know for sure that this person has obtained PR? Or could it be purely an ongoing extension owing to the unusual circumstances? 

16 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

I am keen to travel home as soon as I can. I’m also not sure how long hotel quarantine will keep working.

Just to put the blood clots into perspective, you’re 400 times more likely to get a blood clot from the pill than Astra.

I think most are aware of the statistics. While quite correct in pointing out the greater likelihood of blood clots through taking the pill, the difference being there are other forms of contraception available. Hence there is a choice. This is/was not the case with the AZ vaccine . Besides that there was  not an urgency to take something , where waiting a little, would avail an alternative vaccine. 

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

@robins_jessica, one more thing to look into:  child care.   It's very expensive in Australia and I don't think you'd be eligible for any assistance. 

I can't help wondering, is this a qualification that will be fully recognized in the UK when you return, and be of enough benefit to compensate for the loss of three years' income plus the costs involved? 

People do undertake what you're planning, but usually with a view to obtaining permanency at the end.  Since that's out of the question for you, it just becomes an extremely expensive adventure, which will drain most of your savings.  If you feel confident of dealing with the wilds of Darwin, have you looked into getting a teaching job in a developing country instead?  Such contracts pay relocation costs and sometimes even provide accommodation, plus a bonus on completion.  When we were in Africa, there were many teachers there with children. There are also opportunities in international schools around the globe, as well as exchange programs with Australian schools and others.  

Great suggestion. Actually I think if it is adventure being sought, relocation to a developing world country would be ideal. Depending on interests and preferences there are numerous choices . A Scottish friend done this in Ghana, finding it the probable most all round rewarding thing she ever done.  One can go less exotic of course up to the individual but it would certainly prove an adventure. Obviously saving the high costs associated with a place like Darwin, indeed much of Australia, at the same time. 

23 minutes ago, DrDougster said:

Wow! What a lot of ridiculous scare mongering about what can be a lovely place to live!

Darwin is certainly always hot and can be very humid but that's a given and the weather can be lovely. There are some tropical diseases that are more common than other areas but it's not like you're going to be living in a tent in wetlands for heaven's sake. Mosquitos aren't a big problem. I'd look at a nice house or apartment a bit North of the city in Nightcliff, Rapid Creek area. There's no traffic to speak of so you'll be into the town in 20minutes at "rush hour" anyway. It's a great gateway drug to Australia and a place I'd consider moving back to in later years of life.

Hardly scare mongering with such high crime rate. It's been awhile since I was living there, but little seems to have changed. The demographics point towards a very young population. Most I knew from my time there have left, but were not local born and bred. But Darwin certainly has some differing points in its favour for those wanting another aspect to Australia. While really enjoyed my time in NT mostly due to it being rather unique , I would more likely pick Cairns a place to retire (if wanted the retire in tropics than Darwin, but obviously a personal choice, but places have some social issues, just Darwin more so)

Perth born and partly bred. The Hills are great for the large part. Just be aware of bush fires and extreme smoke during bush fires or indeed burning. But for acreage and other requirements that location may well fit the bill. 

54 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Both my kids have grown up here, ones 31 and the other 26. Drug use and problems with it are no worse than any big City and better than most.

I went to uni in Birmingham UK and if you wanted drugs you could get whatever you wanted. I shared a house with a couple of guys who were spending 10 quid a day on dope, doing hot knives before going out. Rich parents.

Me I just preferred booze, unless dope was going free, which was quite often.

Perth is like a kindergarden in comparison. My eldest has spent a lot of years travelling, lived in Whistler, Canada for a couple of years. That's when we were most worried about him. He's back here now, working FIFO offshore, so they get tested every swing. Pretty sure him and his friends are in a good place.

 

I will take issue with you on the drug problem in Perth. I refer to meth (ice) and contrary to what you write, Perth is a world leader in this dreadful drug. Adelaide over the past two years has passed Perth in that regard, but still high.

Perth is no kindergarden in drug abuse that is for sure. It has long been an issue, but Meth has taken it to another level with the potential for violence for users of that drug. 

Meth is not and has not been a feature of UK drug taking. They certainly have other issues around the matter, with places like Scotland being bad in parts, (Brighton bad as well) 

No what I write about is something far more destructive. As for testing in the mines, a reason meth is so popular is it doesn't show up in testing. 

My area (inner city) is very active in home made meth production. I lived completely oblivious to it until pointed out by a near neighbour . Professional people involved, but also uni students, middle aged people, a few tradie types. But what it is not is druggie perceived types  or meth heads as seen in the city. I suspect these are most likely not consuming themselves but purely in it for the profit. 

One thing is for certain. We have a very difficult task ahead to combat this meth scourge and I'm not sure are up to the task by any means from my observation. It is a national problem with certain areas very badly impacted like Murray Bridge in SA. 

All most disheartening . Country WA has been impacted badly. 

18 minutes ago, Domo said:

Tell your story, I'd love to hear it!I

I was born on the adriatic coast in Europe, Australian lifestyle is similar to that, we don't have that in Canada. Personally I'd much prefer that my kids grew up in a similar environment, Canada is super boring if you ask me and it's literally frigid 7 months of the year. Both economies are similar and I'm aiming for a career change that Canada can't offer, maybe Vancouver can, but if I'm going to move 8hrs away from Toronto, I may as well move 25hrs to Aus. Def wouldn't want to raise a family in murica.

In what way I wonder do you envisage Australian lifestyle to resemble the Adriatic Coast of Europe? The only differing aspect to Canada is the weather. As you write in economic terms both countries have similarities . While preferring the heat to frigid weather myself, the better weather fails to arrest a host of boredom inducing social conditions that inflict this nation as it does others. I wonder what career change Canada can't offer that Australia can? Kangaroo shooter? Sheep shearer? I really can't imagine. Both are first world nations, offering to my mind very similar bites of the pie.

Perth does not suit all tastes. It is very spread out , one of the most car centric places on earth and 'plastic' or 'lacking soul ' other terms often used to describe it. But it has beautiful weather for the most part. Good beaches, (parking can be an issue in summer) an improving public transport system (additional rail being built)  

It isn't cheap. Eating out I find more expensive than Sydney. Rents are very hard to come by at the moment. House prices were falling, now rising considerably in line with most everywhere else in Australia . The difficulty obtaining housing should not be under estimated. There is a 0.5% vacancy rate at the moment, which is chronically low. 

Rather important to check street for unsavory activity as well. Drug abuse is very widespread. Here I mean the manufacture of meth (ice) Perth led the world in production a few years back, since overtaken by Adelaide according to stats. (number one in the world) I have personally experienced the trauma of living around this and it is very serious with limited scope for rectification. 

 Darwin is not a place for the faint hearted. It has a high crime and these days I understand drug abuse rate. There is a reason so many houses maintain large dogs. I think it would make sound sense to acquire one unless of course living in an apartment, which doesn't appear would e the case. 

Likewise it used to have the name ofLand  of The Broken Jaw. Lots of violence usually alcohol related . Remember NT has the highest murder rate per capita in Australia as well. 

I lived close to the centre in an apartment, so endured no break-in's but certainly know people who did.  I have no idea with regards to the feasibility of living more remote. I suspect it would be an eye opener though. 

Don't get me wrong. Liked very much my time living in Darwin. Certainly different from elsewhere in Australia and is very multi cultural. The beach market had a great vibe during the season . City very Back Packer orientated with loads staying on, giving a further international vibe to what is a pretty much 'real Aussie ambiance' of a place.

A lot of foreigners had thoughts of moving South at some stage though. Various reasons. Professional career advancement. Medical reasons. Education. Safety issues. Perhaps just out grew Darwin and wanted more. 

Probably more a young persons place and stats seem to confirm it being so. Older people tended to return to Adelaide before retirement. (a lot of Adelaide people worked in Darwin in government departments and so on)

I suspect Darwin and the NT in general would be more an adventure than living in suburban Adelaide or Perth for sure. It could be a place to savour for a few years. But with the heat, outside work would likely pose a difficulty for anyone from a temperate climate and not used to humidity.