jess6

3 minutes ago, Parley said:

Of course it was lazy.

Scott Ludlum had been in office 10 years. He never checked at time of entry to parliament or at any time until a private citizen advised him he was going to challenge him in the high court.

The private citizen simply asked for a check on the NZ citizenship register which turned up Ludlum's name.

A similar story with Larissa  Waters. She didn't make any attempt to check until very recently when she realised other people would be checking her citizenship status.

Ii is reprehensible behaviour from the pair of them.

Note that all the other politicians have come out showing how they checked and renounced their citizenships years ago when they entered Parliament.

The Greens seem to think they are not required to do what everyone else has to,

Is there public visibility of all other politicians'citizenship? I did not know that.

I agree, on the principle, politicians should obey the law and not feel that they are above it. Can we give them the benefit of the doubt though?

I am not Australian so I cannot vote but being from France, I have seen politicians doing things way worst than this - like using public money in a dodgy way. Really I find it's a bit of a drama for nothing, especially because they are from NZ and Canada. It's not like they were some kind of active spy.

I admit It's not cool for the electors who voted for them and wanted to be represented by them because they believed in their ideas. I'd be their elector, I'd be a little annoyed because of that.

2 minutes ago, Praveen Reddy said:

Wow.. great
Is your immi account status changed or did you call immi?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My MA contacted me - I haven't checked my account. 

59 minutes ago, Roberta2 said:

 

List of those who may not be federal politicians:

44. Any person who -

(i.) Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power: 

 

Thanks for sharing!

55 minutes ago, Parley said:

Of course.

I don't get why you are making lame excuses for these people who were to lazy to check their citizenship.

They made no attempt to check their status.

Why do you call people lazy? How would you know how hard it is to check a citizenship status? 

She was crying on TV and she apologised. What else do you need to excuse her? 

Have you never made any mistakes in your life to feel so superior to the rest of humanity? 

Just sharing the following to give hope and positive energy to everyone: my file has just been allocated to processing ***fingers crossed*** 

My info are in the spreadsheet - I applied June, 20 2016 - DE Marketing specialist

18 minutes ago, Babs2012 said:

Our PR have just been granted!!!!!!!!!! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyy! Good luck to everyone on here. I hope you all get the good news soon. 

Congrats and thank god!! I hope we will see approvals going through now.  

2 hours ago, Keith and Linda said:

If they feel passionate enough about representing Australian people and passing laws for Australia, then they should be passionate about being an Australian and abide by Australian laws/rules/regulations.

Regarding the Greens, I do believe it was a mistake I do not think they were intending to game the system. 

That being said, it's all a question of flexibility and seeing the world as a whole rather than countries against countries. That's obviously the European in me talking and I get that for people who haven't grown up in EU, this can be difficult to see as loyal or acceptable. 

2 hours ago, Roberta2 said:

We had a referendum in 1999, with Malcolm Turnbull as leader of the Republican movement, and Tony Abbott on the other side.  (One reason they have never been exactly mates.) Those in favour could not agree on how the Head of State would be chosen - by popular election, or by two thirds vote of the parliament.  So then PM John Howard was able to drive through the middle and it was defeated.

 I think there is widespread agreement that the Republican movement will have another go - after a decent interval following the Queen's passing.  And will probably succeed next time.  Among other things, we've had high levels of immigration since then from China and India, and most of those people probably think the current situation is odd.  (India became a republic upon independence in 1947) .  

By the way, Elizabeth II is a foreigner according to the Australian High Court ruling in 1999.  The case of Heather Hill, a One Nation Senator.  Precisely this issue of dual citizenship.

As for dual citizenship, you can't say the NZ or Canada is OK, but China is not.  Has to be one law for all. 

 

I guess it would depend on countries relationships. Technically, it could be ok for a NZ citizen to be dual but not for a Chinese citizen. Not saying that I agree with this but it could be possible.

You can get dual citizenship with Germany if you are a EU or Swiss citizen for example. As a French, I could have got dual citizenship (German - French) for example, I just did not ask. But I do not think it applies to other countries.

Then if the Constitution stipulates that you can be a representative if you are an Australian Citizen - and does not put any restriction on dual citizenship or on having acquired the citizenship from birth - then you could have dual citizen (Australian-Canadian) as national representatives. 

I am not saying it will happen and I am not specifically advocating for any of this - I just want to put out there that everything is possible really  

On 19/07/2017 at 09:43, Roberta2 said:

I don't see any great push to change 44 (i).  The Greens are not challenging it.   There was a recent hoo-haa about Senator Gichuhi when there were (unsubtantiated) claims she was still a Kenyan citizen.  A dual citizen is always going to be suspected of having divided loyalties, even if that is not the case.  Would we want people in the parliament who were still citizens of China, Russia, Iran, etc?  Don't think so.  Aspiring politicians are just going to be much more careful in ensuring that if born overseas, they are sure that they are not still citizens of the country they were born in.  

As for the Queen as head of state, it's more or less a given that Australia will become a republic after the Queen dies.  While there is a lot of respect for the job she has done, Australia is a very different country now.  King Charles and Queen Camilla - don't think so....

Fair enough - I guess it still feels weird to me that some dual citizen from Canada, America, New-Zealand, the UK or even EU to a certain extend - although I can understand Australia feels closer to the UK, New-Zealand or Canada than EU - can't keep they their dual citizenship and be national representative.

Regarding the Queen, this is an interesting point: do you think Australia will become a Republic after her passing?

Would it require some changes in the Constitution?

On 18/07/2017 at 23:40, Ken said:

Sorry, but that's not a good example. The Governor of California is local government. It would be a bit like a dual citizen being Premier of Victoria. That's allowed. It's only at the Federal level that dual citizens are excluded. That said (as many Australian Republicans have pointed out) it make no sense that dual citizens aren't allowed in the national parliament while the head of state has about 16 different citizenships.

Good point - my bad - thanks for flagging

1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

And having lived in Australia for many years I can tell you that a large part of the population is anti-immigration, they see jobs going to foreigners instead of to ozzies, they see immigrants getting welfare, benefits and pensions, they see immigrants getting criminal records but being allowed to stay in spite of government promises, and the overwhelming impression I came away with was that your average ozzie on the street does not want the doors opened to more immigrants. To think that a majority of the population would sign petitions to speed up visa processing is just not realistic. Nor do ozzies care how long it takes someone to get a visa, its of no consequence to them, and most of them have absolutely no knowledge of the visa system anyway - why should they/.

I am happy to see that you are connected to over 10 million people 

By the way, if you are so convinced it won't work why are you trying to discourage people to do it then?  

You see I have been living in Australia several years, my partner is Australian and I have a complete different experience.

Finally to answer your points:

1) Many Australians are aware of the visa system for a simple reason: Many of them are immigrants, partners of immigrants or immigrants' children...

2) Immigrants are not stealing Australian people jobs - companies hire skilled immigrants when they have no other choices.

3) Temporary immigrants do not have access to the social system in Australia.  

I still believe that if you present information in the right way, people will see people realities and be compassionate.

I do not believe that Australians are not a bunch of heartless people...

5 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

A petition for what and to whom? Do remember that immigration is a political hot potato at the moment and a huge amount - very likely a majority of Australians would like to see much bigger cuts to migration as a minimum. At a time when money for services is at a premium such as health, police and others, a petition to get more cash to speed up migrants visas would be unpopular with voters to say the least. 

Verystormy - may I challenge you here and wonder if it is not your own opinion you are expressing instead of the opinion of "the majority of Australians"?

The governement has approved an intake of 190,000 permanent residents for the year 2017-2018: http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/hindi/en/article/2017/05/10/2017-2018-skilled-migration-intake-announced

There is absolutely no reasons for them to slow down processing visas.

When things are presented correctly to people, then people are unlikely to disagree. So I do not think that reaching out to the press or creating a petition is such a bad idea. Applications should be processed in a timely fashion because humans are behind these applications. Each human deserve a minimum of respect and consideration.

Immigrants are a huge source of revenue for Australia like they are for any country. So it would be great if immigrants could be seen as people instead of being treated like some kind of unwelcome plague. This is starting to become quite inappropriate.

there are approvals going through on the 186 Spreadsheet - they are very rare and slow at the moment though.

I just wonder if simply fewer people are sharing their timelines on the spreadsheet...

45 minutes ago, Roberta2 said:

Australia was in fact built on monoculture.  The constitution was written in 1901, when Britannia ruled the waves, and Social Darwinism was widely believed - i.e. that there was a hierarchy of races, with the Anglo Saxons at the top.   (The Celts in Scotland were more or less OK because Protestant; the Catholic Celts in Ireland definitely not.)   The country was anything but multicultural.  In fact, the first act of the federal parliament was legislation to enact the White Australia Policy (although it was never officially called that.)  Many Chinese, Pacific Islanders etc were deported.  The drive to federation was partly to ensure uniform legislation throughout the country to exclude "inferior races" from the island continent. Even by the time of the Second World War, the population was more than 90% Anglo Celtic.  My father, when he enlisted in 1942, had to declare that he was of "pure European descent".   The remnants of the WAP were not abandoned until Whitlam came to office in 1972.   

The US Constitution, by the way, stipulates that the President must be a "native born" American.  Hence the drive by Trump and other so-called "birthers" to deny that Barak Obama had been born in Hawaii.  What they were really saying, of course, was that as a black man he was not fit to be president.  (A bit rich since his wife's ancestors had been brought to the US in chains....)

There are many aspects of the Australian Constitution that could do with updating.  It doesn't even mention the Prime Minister, Ministers, Cabinet government etc.  (All were assumed because it followed the British model.) But it is notoriously difficult to amend.  You have to get a majority of voters in a majority of states in a referendum to change it.  So most referenda have failed.  Forget the statistics - I think only 8 out of 54 have succeeded.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge - learning about different cultures is certainly what I love the most about being an expat.

1 hour ago, eli87 said:

Hi @jess6 

Do you have any idea how much case officer take time after workplace??

or any one have experience immi workplace visit??

Sorry - I have no idea - I just guess and make assumptions like most of us

Immi did not come to my workplace.

28 minutes ago, Roberta2 said:

It's nothing to do with multiculturalism.  Section 44(i) of the Constitution forbids dual citizenship because it would potentially lead to divided loyalties.  It's not controversial.  The Greens, among the greatest advocates in parliament for multiculturalism,  are not complaining about it.  

What does the current French constitution say about dual citizens being allowed to sit in your legislature?

The French constitution does not forbid it. The below article in English (sorry it's Vogue :)) features Naja Vallaud Belkacem, dual citizen and ex-minister in France.

http://www.vogue.com/article/najat-vallaud-belkacem-minister-of-education-france

In the US, Arnold Schwarzenegger was the 38th Governor of California from 2003 to 2011 - also a dual citizen.

I personally find it surprising that Australia - which is built on multi-culturalism - prevents dual citizens to sit in parliament. This is my personal opinion.

I guess I have this position because I am European and on my passport you can read European Union first and then French Republic. I believe in an open peaceful world with open perspectives that's probably why I am not shocked to see dual citizens in a goverment.

When someone choses to represent people, clearly they love the country because representing people is such a hard work. It really requires passion and commitment.

Thanks again for always giving context - I am learning so much at the moment! :-)

7 minutes ago, Praveen Reddy said:

Thanks for the info mate.

Seems to be there's a delay in processing 186 visas as well as all other visas.
They haven't even updated the processing times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah - I have seen this - last time they updated it on a Wednesday so maybe they crush the data on Monday and process on Tuesday before releasing it on Wednesday.

I guess the good thing is: I am getting more and more understanding into Australian Politics and culture through that painful experience.

5 hours ago, wombatinabox said:

Hi Folks,

Not good news for the citizenship laws, we just lost 2 Greens in the senate. That means 2 less votes unless the issue is resolved and replacement happens before next session!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/larissa-waters-to-resign-from-senate-over-citizenship/8720066

Makes it even more important for everyone here to keep the pressure on Team Xenophon and other senators leaning towards rejecting the bill. You will find the full details in a previous post of mine on who to contact.

 

I am French and it literally blows my mind - not in a good way - I seriously do not understand Australia's positioning on this. This is a multicultural country.

How much sense does it make to exclude dual citizens from public fonctions??? That's certainly not representative of what the Australian population is made of.

I personally follow these additional threads to get a sense of what the big picture is:

https://www.pomsinoz.com/topic/193574-ens-subclass-186-rsms-subclass-187-timelines/?page=720

https://www.pomsinoz.com/topic/193918-changes-to-pathway-to-citizenship/?page=31

The following articles are quite interesting:

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/07/17/australia-privatise-visa-system-save-cost

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-28/immigration-department-vulnerable-to-cyber-attacks-experts-fear/8659548

On 14/07/2017 at 11:31, Hakan said:

If they are gonna start outsourcing, it means they sre gonna have to stick with the script.  Less personal opinion will br involved at making decision i think. 

We can expect the CO to be still internal and not outsourced. So there will still be some personal judgement in the process which is actually good and not bad as circumstances are different from people to people.

Are there legal instruments in Australia for Migration Agents or applicants to lobby the DIBP?

1 hour ago, paramsahota said:

Feeling sad....22 months aftet applied 186 ....my 457 visa expired today..... still no case officer....no news.....

I am so sorry. Is it a transition visa? Do you have a migration agent?

Can immigration agents on this forum explain why the department can treat applicants like that?

That does not sound right from a legal perspective. People have entered the country legally, have sponsors, work for their sponsors, pay taxes and have paid fees for their application.

Why is the department not processing the files??!! This is really dysfunctional.

How is that even possible from a legal perspective?

I mean if something is wrong with a file, why don't they just give the feedback instead of leaving people in the dark. There is absolutely no empathy or consideration for people in that process.

Are migration agents not championing to make that process better? Why is a maximum timeline not set?

This is sad and disappointing to see one of the richest democracy in the world treat human beings like numbers because they think they can...

I can understand that they may encounter some background check delays but almost two years... really? Come on...

7 hours ago, AMP-ens186 said:

Hi all, Major panic last Friday when the department announced retrospective legislation changes which would of deemed my DE186 visa that was lodged in October 2016 as invalid as it did not meet new legislation passed on 1st July.  After much lobbying by various businesses, they have decided now not to apply legislation retrospectively. Anyway i got this email today from my MA

"We have good news! We received confirmation late yesterday afternoon that the Department of Immigration and Border Protection (DIBP) will only be applying the new legislative instrument to ENS / RSMS applications lodged from 1 July 2017 onwards.

This means that your application which was lodged prior to 1 July, relying on the high salary exemption for skill, will still have access to this exemption and will be processed as normal.  This information can be found here: http://www.border.gov.au/WorkinginAustralia/Pages/1-July-2017-changes.aspx

The DIBP has also indicated that it intends to look at this cohort and prioritise these applications where appropriate. As such, I have reviewed your file again and all your police clearances and medicals are still in date. We therefore hope to have a decision made on your application shortly" 

Hopefully i will receive that golden email in the near future.!!

 

That's a good news  

It'd be great to see the department prioritising all the files which have been stuck in their system for a while. ***fingers crossed***

51 minutes ago, Mae said:

We're finally approved!! *YAY*

**************************

Here are our details:-

Visa applied - EN186 (Direct Entry)

Nomination / Visa applied - 28 July 2016

Visa approved - 10 July 2017 

Occupation: Financial Analyst 

Offshore application / NSW PESE

2 Person - LR

No additional documents requested.

**************************

We've asked our MA (Fragomen) to check immediately when we hit the 11 month mark so he dropped them a mail 29 June to which they responded on 4 Jul with the standard reply:-

"We are currently allocating ENS/RSMS cases lodged between April and December 2016, however not all cases in this date range have been allocated. 
You may be contacted when your case is allocated or if further information is required. Please note that we will not respond to status enquiries. "

We then received a call from MA this morning on the approval - 5 days later.

This all seemed so surreal now - but time to get our butts packing and moving

For those who are still waiting, hang in there!

P.S: Can someone please help to update my details on the googlesheet under the Jul2016 tab - I only have view access now. Thanks heaps!

 

 

Congrats!!

1 hour ago, wishmeluckpls said:

good news from me,

transition, marketing specialist HR

nomination/visa 9/Dec 2016 NSW team 1

requested three quarters BAS statement (the one have to download from Business portal) on 29/May 2017, Submitted on 5/June 2017, including one extra reference letter to explain why company's turnover had huge up and down as a new company 

approval for both 06/July 2017

my detailed timeline

• started to work under 457 around March 2014
• applied ENS transition around March 2016
• company change owner, new ABN, but same company name, same role, same company structure
• canceled my application around June 2016, wasted $4000 application fee and $4000 MA fees due to this change
• applied new nomination under new ABN, and also skill assessment (I did submit skill assessment even i was going through transition), both done around Nov 2016
• reapply transition 9/Dec 2016
• Got approval today!!

I was a try hard type of person and submitted a lot of documents (closing to 60 documents limitation). I learned a lot from this forum, so that I was able to be prepared for my special situation. Big thanks to all your contribution.

If anyone went through similar situation like me that company changing owner, feel free to message me for the experience. Even though I used MA for my applications, I went through all aspect of this VISA myself including company's part. 

I won't spend time to describe the hard time I had for past several years, stress and pain or whatever, we all know that desperation, but I want to wish all you guys good luck!!! Keep fighting!!! 

Congrats!!