Spratnat

Hi, 

I moved over to Aus 3 years ago and was caught up right in the middle of the whole Ahpra saga.

This is my experience.

I qualified in 96 from project 2000 with dip He in childrens nursing. Had also done 2 uni modules (nicu intensive care & mentor ship) which did not count towards anything. As my qualification did not have the word degree in it, I was refused registration but as I was child trained could not do the 8 week bridging course so I was offered registration with 1 year supervision, which i accepted. big mistake, huge! I could not get a job with the conditions, the local nicu manager wanted to take me on but the upper hospital management wouldn’t let him because of my conditions. I then found out that a lot  of nurses with dip he were now applying through New Zealand & taking advantage of the trans mutual agreement. (This route was unknown to me previously due to being one of the early nurses caught up in it). However this route was now unavailable to me as I already had accepted registration with Ahpra. In the end the only thing I could do was do a one year uni degree top up, out here in Oz. It cost me $6000 (& it was very difficult to work during that year due to the placements, so financially it was very difficult). I hadn’t even completed my degree when I got a job on nicu, once they knew I would soon have full registration. My advice would be to go the New Zealand route. There is a very good nurses in Oz forum on Facebook which gives lots of advice on how to do this.

Good luck,

Natalie

Does anybody know if any of these courses have a time frame from when u completed your diploma? I enquires with the open university but they said it was too late as u had completed my diploma over 16 years ago? Also I have 40 credits from 2 courses I have done over the past few years, do u think I could use these towards a top up degree, again ou wouldn't accept them as they only accept courses with 30 credits!

I sent an email last week to the Australian nursing and midwifery federation and they got back to me today and are looking into it. So hopefully that may help? Did anyone write anything off to the addresses I put up the other day? That is my next job, thought I'd try & find an email address for then though!

Disappointed is how I feel every morning when I ha checked my emails & post and find nothing from ahpra, then I try really hard to convince myself no news must be good news lol!

Same with me!!

Who audits Ahpras assessment processes I wonder? We need to get to those people and make them see the incongruencies between assessing our quals!!

It may be worth writing to these people as it looks like they have something to do with the accreditation of of health professionals?

Ms Katy Gallagher MLA

Chair

Australian Health Workforce Ministerial Council

PO Box 1020

Canberra ACT 2600

or

Governance Committee

National Registration and Accreditation Implementation Project

PO Box 2089

Woden ACT 2606

Thankyou everyone who is fighting for our cause, every letter, email, tweet may help.......we can not just lay down and let APHRA make this ridiculous decision. With TRA saying the AQF framework is assessed by ANMAC then we really must have a case. Surely legally this can't stand up?!?! Keep fighting everyone and good luck!!

Hi

 

I've also emailed both the AQF and the TRA. Hopefully we'll get a response from them soon. I've asked where they would place a uk diploma in their framework as ahpra are no longer recognising it and when you ask them about it they don't seem to know an answer for it. I'm also going to contact my local MP tomorrow and the health minister for south australia. I've even been advised to contact adelaide tonight(channel 7) as they would love a story like this.....especially as they have only just had a new election!! I'm not sure I've got the guts to go that far though.

You go girl, we need someone to fight and get someone to question what on earth ahpra are actually doing!!!!!!!

Well I have rang and I basically have no chance of appealing unless I do the bridging course and go through the whole assessment process with ahpra once I've completed the course. For anyone who wanted to do the bridging course in Australia, you still need to apply through ahpra for them to refuse you because you need a letter from ahpra before any university will accept you to do the course!

They are not taking any experience into consideration-they said it has to be additional qualifications.

Thanks alant have just sent an email to that link to enquire about the online course. I'm hoping I can get this sorted soon.

Someone raised an interesting point, when they asked you for your extra criteria did they ask for any more regarding criteria 4, about your qualification being equivalent to a degree?

I wonder what additional qualifications they accept? Let us know how you get on with the bridging course, do they do one in adelaide? It's crazy, we have to pay to be told to do a bridging course & then pay again!!!!!!!! They should keep you on file & just register you once they get your bridging course certificate!!!!!!! I always thought the nhs was inefficient but I think this beats it!!!

Hi

 

I've recently joined this forum and I'm sorry if I burst anyone's bubble but I have just been told on Friday that ahpra are refusing my application for registration! They received my form on the 8th October 2013 and they have had me waiting 9 months to now tell me that my diploma is not recognised as it is not the equivalent to an ausralian bachelor degree. The most frustrating part is that I sent my form last year and there was no indication on any website to say that they would no longer be accepting English nursing diplomas. I'm also annoyed as the new assessment process for internationally qualified nurses was not introduced until February this year!! I wouldn't have bothered wasting all my time and money waiting for this reply!! I have been qualified for nearly 4 years and in that time i worked in a high secure hosptial in Liverpool (none of this seem to have been taken into consideration!). They have offered me the opportunity to do a bridging course. I am currently in Adelaide and I have looked at the fees in flinders universty and it says that it will cost me $23,000!! It's a full time course for twelve months which means I wouldn't be able to work to fund this. They have also said I can make a submission (which I assume it means it can appeal) but I'm unsure of what information I could give them for them to reconsider. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on this please?? Or is there anyone who has beenin the same situation as me?? I don't think I will get my registration but I feel like I need to try.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Claire

I think this is the news we've been expecting and we'd much rather people told us so we can have an idea! So sorry for you, it's absolutely devestating the effect this is having on everyone. Have you done any post grad courses? Re check the bridging course as I too have heard it's 10 weeks & about $10,000. I haven't applied to aphra yet as I was waiting to see what results everyone was getting. Don't see if there is any point wasting my money now! In desperation I looked at registering as a enrolled nurse but it states that overseas registered nurses can't apply. So what can we do?!?!?! Just heartbreaking to think all those years of training & working not counting for anything! Let us know how you get on with the bridging course. I am going to adelaide so I might be joining u on it!!! Nat x

I understand that MARA (Migration Agents Registration Authority) is looking into AHPRA over ruling ANMAC, because ANMAC is providing assessments that count towards a visa, based on a UK Diploma obtaining a Degree assessment. When AHPRA then go on to refuse registration, they are, ineffect (as has been pointed out), ensurring Australia takes in migrants who are unemployable, under false pretences, yet they wont pay benefits. I'm assuming there is a Human Rights principle being flouted also.

Could this then lead to the immigration dept stopping the issuing of visa's to nurses? I lodged my visa a couple of weeks ago and so worried that they may put them on hold whole this whole issue gets looked into? Or does it mean that they are saying it was illegal for aphra to overrule ANMAC?!?!?

http://www.nursingsa.com/nursing_career.php

Just looked up Australian nursing qualifications, their enrolled nurses study for 18 months and get a diploma, placing them on level 6. Their registered nurse degree course is 3 years, level 7. Our diploma is 3 years & we are registered nurses. Totally different to the Australian diploma they are comparing us too!! This is just so frustrating that they are not giving us the recognition we have worked so hard for! However if this issue does not get resolved can we register & get jobs as enrolled nurses?!?!

Hello folks. I am new to this forum but just wanted you to know my update on the whole ANMAC / APHRA approach. I started over 2 years ago and got the positive skills assessment from ANMAC last Sept 13. I applied to APHRA as told to do that then which was Oct 13. I studied the diploma in M Health Nursing and provided them with all the evidence they asked for - ANMAC file sent on to them to save time. Was told being processed and thought all good. As has been pointed out on here and how viewed now, my file was processed last week - 6/7 months in total - and was refused based on the diploma. States level 6 and needs to be level 7. Have received the letter about doing the bridging course but this would still mean going to Oz if state sponsored visa comes through, finding a job in a different career that will also allow you to do the course which you would have to pay for also and even when done they might have changed the rules again. I learnt more from this forum than any emails that were never replied to from my case officer over 3 months. The case was heard at NSW and it states all being done there. Sorry this is not positive news that you might want to hear but if you are starting the process off, please stop and seek advice. ANMAC could still give you a positive outcome but if diploma trained you will fail at AHPRA and no-one will tell you this or point it out to you. Hope this helps anyone who might need this advice / information. In theory i missed out by 2/3 weeks for the date they backdated their changes to in Oct. Best of luck to all of you and use all the support you can from each other.

Oh no that is terrible for you and such a frustrating situation to be in. So gutted for you & everyone in same situation. I think we were all hoping this wouldn't be the case, just can't believe they have made this stupid decision . They are basing are diploma on the same level as an enrolled nurse and not recognising we are registered nurses! Do u mind if I ask if you have any post grad qualifications or just your diploma? Nat.

...Hmm I understand what you are saying but I can't say I completely agree. To say simply because I am degree trained that my care will be of a lesser standard is a tad unfair. My degree was very intense, the A&P side of it was extremely indepth - a great deal more so than my mum received when she trained 35 years ago, she has on the other hand got 32 years experience on me in which she has learnt TONS! And which is why our training involves 50/50 theory to practical because you learn so much through practical experience! They need to take this into consideration! I literally trained on the wards shoulder to shoulder with diploma nurses, doing the exact same.

I've mentioned before that I do believe that we are the guinea pigs for the application process transition - I reckon they will rethink their decisions as they will definitely be missing out on a lot of fabulous nurses if they stick to this. I'm not even entirely sure what the difference is between degree and diploma courses? They both end up with registered nurse jobs, completing the same patient care/tasks on a daily basis - crazy.

The least they can do is address everyone or publish something with explanations and rationale for everyone to see.

There isn't much difference between the two, I think it might just be one module/essay?!?! Like you say if you put them side be side they would see that. On the framework it clearly states that that level 6 diploma is a 2 year course and level 7 is a 3 year course which is why ANMAC say it is the equivalent to the degree!! If ahpra put the 2 courses side by side and looked at each bit closely I'm sure they could see it. What we need is a lawyer who can look at the degree & diploma courses and the level 7 framework & argue the case for us or something!!! That would take time though & we don't have that! Has aphra actually justified anywhere why the diploma is no longer good enough, even though it's a 3 year course & I mean given the actual specific detail if what is missing or different between the two? Because I would sure like to know!!

Have you applied yet Nat? I have been intouch with nurses in oz and they said one of their clients has had to come home, I don't think they got offered the bridging course. I will let you know if I hear anything but after reading everyones posts I don't think its looking good. Are they looking at post grad courses as well? Im just doing my mentorship now as well so im hoping that it does!!

I was going to apply but thought I'd wait due to the backlog and see what started filtering through. Now I will wait till I get my mentorship cert. aphra have said they will take into account courses so will just have to apply & see what happens. Fortunately my husband has a job as he is transferring as the head office is in adelaide, which is why we are doing this. I keep telling him I will have to be a lady of leisure if I can't get registered! However I love my job & have worked hard to increase my skills & would like to carry on doing it. Just can't believe last year it was fine for diploma nurses & now it's not?!?! Also there isn't much difference between the courses, only a essay or 2 I think! I personally wanted to do a diploma as it was more hospital based!! Unfortunately I did my diploma too long ago now to upgrade to a degree.

Hi im just reading everyones comments regarding the diploma nurses being refused. I have also sent my documents for registration and I was not aware of these changes I completed the diploma in children's nursing in 2011 with 360 credits given I have specialised in neonatal intensive care where I have completed the low/high dependency and the intensive care training. Does aphra look at this or do they automatically say no due to the diploma? Or are they looking at everyone on an individual basis?

Hi, I am in a similar position to you. Did my child health diploma in 96, completed neonatal course in 2012 & just finished my mentorship course!! Really hoping that post grad courses count. I guess we won't know until more people start either getting or being refused registration! So far there had only been 1 refusal that I'm aware off. Good luck everyone & please let us know how you are all getting on. And thank you to everyone who is campaigning & trying to get it sorted. This whole situation is a nightmare. Keep the faith everyone, Nat xx

Welcome to the club Nat, we're all in it together! [emoji15] x

Thanks, I was ready to apply but thought I'd wait & see what was happening with other people & let some of the backlog get sorted! Bit worried that it's not looking too good ;(

I'm hoping so!! On AHPRAs twitter page it states the NMBA see our diploma as equivalent to an AQF6, and we need AQF7 to register, but that post reg qualifications may be taken into account! I hope so I too have done 4 NMC modules post reg!! Look at Twitter, AHPRA is responding to concerns on there!! Although can't say it helps us too much!!

What modules have you done & how many credits were they? They don't even take into account your experience! Surely they would be interested in the fact that you have safely administered safe nursing care, medication for 15 years & kept up to date in your field so that you are giving best practice! Nursing evolves all the time that what you covered in your course is probably old hat now anyway!!!

Oh, and you can't do the bridging course until AHPRA assess you, it's them who refer you to go on it! Sorry no avoiding it, if that were the case, I'd have registered for it already!! So frustrating!

Ahpra it is then, they really do have us over a barrell!! More money then with no idea of what the outcome will be!!

This is what makes a mockery of the whole thing!! ANMAC assess us as degree equivalent, so we apply for and get (at considerable expense) our PR visas, then AHPRA say they don't recognise ANMAC's assessment, so they send us on a bridging course, accredited by who else?? But ANMAC!!! It's so wrong!

It just doesn't make sense does it? I wonder if ANMAC will now raise their bar to come in line with ahpra? Surely they can't have the 2 boards having different criteria? I also wonder how it will affect the visa? We lodged ours a couple of weeks ago and claimed extra points for a degree, due to my assessment from ANMAC? If ANMAC & the visa authority accept the degree then why not ahpra? I am worried they Will they stop issuing a nursing visa if the nurses then can't work once they come over?!?!?!

So sorry for you, as you may have read, many of us diploma nurses have seen this coming, and for us, this is confirmation that we will have to undertake the bridging program. Did you have your skills assessed with ANMAC prior to your AHPRA assessment? Have you done any post reg courses at all? As AHPRA state these will be taken into account. I really can't offer any answers, as I think this is the way it is going for many of us, all I would say, is that, if it's your dream, this is just a hiccup! And I think the bridging course would be cheaper than converting in the UK. But I'm no expert, and hopefully someone will be along soon with more helpful advise!

Try to stay positive, it doesn't mean the end, just another hurdle to jump!

Best wishes

Hi, I did my advanced diploma too long ago now to be able to convert it to a degree, but 2 years ago I got my neonatal qualification from Southampton uni (equivalent to 20 credits) and just about to complete my mentorship course from Bournemouth uni, also 20 credits. You mentioned about aphra taking into account post reg qualifications, Do you think that these would be accepted at all? Not sure whether to apply to aphra and see or save that money do bridging course & then apply? This diploma situation is just so disappointing. Nat

Abbilouiseslatter, so gutted for you, this is the news we've all been dreading. Had you been skills assessed by ANMAC and Did you have a letter from stating that you're diploma was equivalent to a degree? Nat

Gutted for you as I am also diploma nurse feel the pain. Dreading my refusal as bridging course is expensive. That's if I get bringing course as children trained only especially after anmac has assessed my diploma as equal to australian degree.

Hi, I am child trained too, on the project 2000 course, with a advanced diploma. Your comment about the the bridging course has worried me, do you think that being child trained excludes you from being able to do it? Just can't understand how ANMAC can assess it as equivalent to a degree but aphra dismiss it? Nat

I can help with the English thing...

I answered yes and simply listed my education - degree 3 years and college 2 and I just provided my certificates as they need these anyway. No need to bother with anything else there. Then I got my ielts sent to ahpra.

Nothing else way requested and my application was processed very quickly

Could I ask your advice aswell please regarding education section? I have my diploma certificate and prior to that I did a'levels but can't seem to find my certificates, only my gcse's. I have my IELTS though. Do I need to try & get copies of my a'levels (wouldn't know where to look though as 20 yrs ago!) or as I've done IELTS would that be enough? Thanks, Nat x

Just had a look at one of the bridging courses and its only accredited by none other than ANMAC which makes the " we dont recognise ANMAC assessments for migration" comment seem a bit silly

Lol, that is silly!!!

That's Aussies for you - Great at bigging themselves up but shite at everything else!

 

The next test will be when a UK Dip nurse gets refused AHPRA and then asks for a refund of their fees.

I just don't see on what grounds they can refuse a HE diploma as it meets the criteria/requirements of the level 7! It's a 3 year course not a 1.5-2 yr one that say the diploma is in level 6. British education has always been held in higher esteem, in America it is classed as a degree too?!?!

Advice please, I have lodged my 189 visa and just thinking now about applying to AHPRA. I was wondering if I should hang on a bit and see what is happening and let some of the backlog get sorted or do you think I should register now and get myself in the queue? (Also don't want to waste my money if they don't except the diploma) I have a HE diploma in nursing and qualified in 1996 so a bit worried that I am not going to be able to find all the information that is needed for the new criteria! It's crazy that they are more worried about what you learn't 18 years ago rather than what you know now, surely they should be wanting evidence of update, current practice?!?!