grizzly111

Final question: does the UK citizen have to be in the UK already established etc BEFORE they can apply for their spouse visa?

Tink's advice is really solid. Go for a holiday and check out a few places. Go for long enough so that you don't feel like it's just a holiday but that you are actually living there. I never gave returning to England a second thought until I returned to the UK for a holiday (a promise to the other half to show the country of my birth) and couldn't believe how much I had missed it. A lot of people were going on to me about the large numbers of 'migrants' in the UK now etc etc. I'm sure there are, if you plan to live in certain parts London or areas of the country. But it's always been like that I've been told. I'm honestly not sure how much of an issue they are (perhaps someone could enlighten me). The weather in the UK isn't the greatest either, but at least the sun won't kill you! Anyway, it's what you make of it and what your goals in life are. Look at it from top to bottom. In Australia it's likely your earning capacity will be higher. But will you be satisfied? What about your saving capacity? Do you enjoy things that you'd be better off doing in the UK vs Australia. Do you see yourself living out your years in Australia? Now for a slightly financial slant on things that may help you or others decide on what the right path is: Often on this forum I find people come to Australia to work in the mines for example (ie for money) from the UK and from all over the world. However some simply aren't happy. In terms of money, I would set a financial target, reach it then use the cash to set yourself up back in the UK (or country of choice). That way it makes sense to stay on in Australia for a finite period - to use Australia as leverage as it were - even if you don't particularly like it until your goal is reached. Good luck!

Thanks for the replies! I also don't feel a sense of belonging in Australia BUT am very wary that I may be initially treated/feel like an alien in the UK! Yes, we would be looking to initially rent then purchase a small place in a good area somewhere in Devon but preferably not on the beachfront. Inland would be preferable to us due to a lower amount of maintenance needed. We will hopefully be cashed up from sale of assets in Australia. We are in our 30's so still would like to work as we are both professionally qualified and have worked in our business for years. Either we go back to Uni in the UK (although uni fees have gone up a lot since I last looked!) and do something applicable & interesting or may look to purchase a small business with any luck.

I have been looking at Exeter myself and will be looking to rent first for a few months to get my bearings before investing. I would like an apartment for around 400k-500k pounds personally, but it would have to have secure underground enclosed parking.

What if you had say a $million in savings but no job in the UK? Does age matter? (What i'm trying to say is that if you exceed the minimum required amount by a long margin and were young(er) would it make it easier?)

Thanks for the replies. Any suggestions of where to start looking in Devon (in terms of a good area)? Since I closed my bank account in the UK years ago and don't have work history there I'm not sure how I will go about convincing the bank to lend until I find work (so renting will be the initial option).

Would love to hear more about your experience. Why did you decide to ship your car over to the UK? Also, why did you choose Devon and specifically Dartmouth? It appears to be better value so I am also looking to move to Devon/SW England.

Nice. It's a deep and interesting culture. I hope to learn a bit more about the culture first hand before going! Anyway, let's not distract ourselves from the Thinker78's success!

I think it perhaps highlights the lack of appreciation we have for indigenous culture in Australia. Although, of course, this can be viewed on different levels. I can't speak for other countries. I communicate with and personally help many ATSI/indigenous members of the community often on a daily basis who all speak English so have never thought to ask, until I heard someone speaking an indigenous language on the radio during NAIDOC week. I wondered what they said. It was simple. They said hello, how are you?

Thinker - you sound just like me on your reflections of the UK! I too prefer the rich culture and diversity the UK has to offer. Summer woodland walks, driving around villages on daytrips ending with a nice meal at a pub.... Well done on settling in. Regarding Australia, I always felt in the back of my mind that I never fitted in. The lack of culture here is in contrast to the amount of sunshine (which i try to sensibly avoid). It struck me the other day that no one in my 20 years in Australia has ever taught me how to say 'hello, how are you?' in Aboriginal. That says a lot in my book. I am still in the middle of making THAT big decision to move. At present in the middle of selling my business in Australia. Once that is done, a long trip to the UK to explore is on the cards. Then the plan to decide what exactly to do for work in the UK once I arrive. How would they accept an ozzie-fied Brit? In any case, onwards and upwards!

I find it absolutely incredulous that Woolworths sell an assortment fresh (frozen) fish from every country around the world despite Australia being surrounded by rich seas. The fish is often of lower quality and I urge people to research the often polluted waters where they are farmed from. For example Basa fillets from Vietnam are straight out of the Meekong. Then theres Blue Grenadier from Tanzania and even Barra from Taiwan! What next? I remember someone posting that in Australia people prefer quantity over quality....

Was thinking about redoing the business in the UK - would be a bit of a dream really - would take time & experience. Selling the property now would not be a good time as the market is very mild at present. London, definitely no. Prices there (I'm from the SW) are truly heady from what I saw in June. Want to live in the countryside.

When I first came to Australia in the late 90's I remember being very excited. Came at the start of year 12 which wasn't easy. It was a whole new experience, sunshine, big open spaces, new friends to make. Purchasing power was good, things were cheap, even housing. I said I never wanted to go back to the UK. Fast forward to now and having made a recent trip back to the UK to 'see how far I've come', I've in fact realised how much I have lost! Australia cannot be compared to the UK. I went back of course thinking the worst about my own country. Worried that it had changed. But I discovered it was actually better than I had ever remembered it (and I had a great childhood there). I've lived from the bottom to the top of Australia and can say it's pretty much all the same. Just different climates and slight variances here and there. I've resided in metropolitan, regional and rural areas. For the poster above that said they are bored in Sydney - ha! I'm guess you never lived in regional/rural Australia where its 7 hours to the nearest major city. And that's the thing - Australia is a new country - it lacks sophistication in so many areas. One of which is proper road/rail networks. Have found it hard to find friends here to be honest - just can seem to find common ground. I'm not the outdoorsy type too, in fact I try to avoid it as much as possible in the summer because.... Yes, the sun can kill you here. I've seen many examples of the devastating effects. And yes, blood suckers tend to love pommy blood. Why? As mentioned above people in Australia are superficial and materialistic. This has resonated greatly with me. But WHY? Is it due to the lack of culture here or the adoption of American values? I really want to leave but the money keeps me in Australia (have a business) - plus properties. If I go back then I won't have work to go to and I've heard that renting out your property in Australia is a hassle if you go back to the UK - have to ask my accountant about this. Anyone have any experience with this? My options: 1. Stay, keep making money, live the materialistic life. Take yearly trips to the UK. Then retire to the UK (but may be too old by then) 2. Leave to the UK, take as much cash with us, rent until find an area to settle, try to find some sort of employment. Enjoy what UK has to offer. Lead a much simpler life. Maybe start a family. Still in our 30's.

Yes, one of the challenges I have faced is dealing with staff that are a very entitled view of their work. They MUST have their 10 minute breaks, they MUST use their sick leave etc. On the rare occassion I have encountered staff members that have forgone them and actually put the people that pay their wages (customers) first. Those staff are keepers.

The problem in Australia is Tall Poppy Syndrome. I was warned about this when I came here from the UK. I didn't believe it - never heard of it! But as time went by (20 years), I have experienced it more and more. They just don't like people standing out or being successful here (in general). The latest event was just the other week: i've recently got an official bank valuation back on the business that I am a managing partner in which i've worked bloody hard to grow. The business performance was dropping fast year on year. Now on purchasing the business I inherited poorly trained, lazy staff. Most left as they couldn't hack the discipline and new efficiencies introduced. (I was glad they left of their own accord as it's virtually impossible to sack workers in Australia without them doing something very wrong). Needless to say, I replaced them with a hand-picked crew. In traditional British spirit I've had to go against the grain and impose my own business principles and make decisions based on what is proper and honest; often against what the regional 'support office' (I love how they don't want to use head office) suggests. It hasnt been easy by any means. The valuation, to my suprise, is double that of what it was 3 years ago. If it were sold it would make my two senior, non-working business partners (who are based at the 'support office' 100kms away) millionares even after debts paid and capital gains. What did my other two senior partners say to me? "Don't get ahead of yourself just because you've been successful." NOT a polite word of thanks or appreciation....

I got a sense of deja vu when I read your post. A friend of mine from the UK is a mechanic and he has exactly the same trouble with the workers here too. He says they have no idea, are lazy and don't take the initiative compared to his staff in the UK. I can also say first hand this is true! If you are going to do a job, first time do it right.

You make a very good point about 'being yourself'. I never thought about it until then. I'm in regional Australia at the moment and come to think of it, I do find it hard to be myself since I share so little in common with the folk here. I have to say that if I left today, I really wouldn't miss anything significant (maybe only the winter weather) about Australia!

Yes whilst I was in the UK I did feel a BIT like an outsider; people certainly didnt regard me as local since I have an Australian accent was the main thing. That's natural and you cant blame them for that. However, in myself, I of course could feel where best I belonged. It's a hard feeling to describe with words but just be honest with yourself. I think simply put, during my trip I was able to sit peacefully under a magnifcent oak tree and admire the beautiful English countryside on a typically rainy, cloudy day and say to myself: "you know what, this IS your place in the world!"*. *whether or not I'll get to reside there again and indeed thrive there is entirely a different matter though!

Just spent a few reconnaissance weeks in the south of England. 1. Wow. It's practically just as I left it. Better, in fact. At least the environment on the surface. Which is actually a good thing. 2. England is truly a beautiful country with so much history and culture. I absolutely adored the countryside as I have always done. Having lived all over Australia for 20 years it cannot hold a candle to it. The sights and even the smells came flooding back. The human memory is truly incredible! 3. London (where I grew up) was cleaner than expected but busier, much busier it seemed. Air pollution hadn't changed judging by what came out my nose! I did not enjoy the crowds but enjoyed the culture. 4. Transport was efficient albeit slightly costly. Was impressed with the rail/tube system as always, updated carriages, friendly rail staff etc. Cleaner than Sydney's trains overall. 5. Was genuinely suprised at how close everything was. 6. Great pubs. Great beer, food, family friendly. What more can I say? 7. Schools/education - I've been lucky enough to have been to some top schools in both the UK and Australia (at much sacrifice from my parents). Visited one whilst there. UK clearly superior on this one (my opinion only) if you have the money. 8. Housing - expensive. Suprisingly expensive in any of the 'greener' areas I liked in SW London and even in the countryside. Going to have to do more research in this area. 9. Job prospects - I got the feeling the job market in general was positive. Retail establishments everywhere appeared to be hiring, for example, which is a fair indication for basic demand on a public level and always a (albeit low-paid) fall back. 10. Food - of decent quality. Moderately expensive for some things, cheaper for others. eg. bread was cheap but fresh meat not so much. Eating out was generally of superior quality. 11. Loved going for long walks in the woods and parks. Just felt so safe and so relaxed by the surroundings. Sense of peace. Just cant get that feeling in Australia - the burning sun, insects that bite.... 12. People - eccentric and direct. But usually in a good way. Took me by suprise at first as I am used to the laid back Aussie approach. Something DEFINTELY need to get used to. They also dont tend to want to get into your business and know your whole life story the first time you meet which was like a breath of fresh air. They tend to mind their own business which can be misinterpreted as being unfriendly. But in reality I found Brits more friendly and helpful than expected. England really has a lot to offer on that tiny rock. For kids I'd rather them grow up in the UK and get an education there. Work is my biggest hurdle as I will have to requalify over there and my industry in the UK isn't as well off as it is in Australia. Though this could change over the next 10 years. I am honestly thinking about returning to the UK for good.

In the UK I could not get a tan. In Australia I can tan in around 15-20 minutes easily in summer at 1-2pm. Even when there is cloud cover or if you are in the shade I can still tan. In fact you can get a UV meter, wind down the window of your car and see how much UV gets into the car by holding the meter in the car. You will be very, very surprised how much comes through an open window just from reflection. It's like when you are in the snow or on the water.

Sun damage is a serious health concern in Australia. Not just life-threatening melanomas but also unsightly solar keratoses and premature ageing of the skin. Often when overseas I can spot the aussie without them uttering a word just by the condition of their skin. 30 year olds can look 40+. Please try to stay out of the sun when the UV is extreme and wear sunscreen and clothing protection where possible if spending time outdoors. I actually find the sun really burning to my skin in Oz and do my best to avoid it as I virtually daily see the shocking result of excessive sun exposure. I once did a special test for skin damage to the face - I came out with nil luckily - mostly I was told because I spent so much of my early life in the UK. Others that were tested included 18-20 year old Australia born and bred kids that showed clear, surprising, sun damage to their face. They say that if you have had skin damage (sunburn) when you were young it can manifest as cancer later in life.

Regarding Adelaide: I remember attending a lecture there by a psychologist. He stated clearly that future job opportunities were determined by various factors in the different capital cities of Australia. He listed a few examples that I forgot but I never will forget that he mentioned that the most important factor in Adelaide was, surprisingly, what school you attended. At the time several of us laughed it off. This in fact turned out to be quite true.

I have never worked in the UK so can't comment, but I won't deny that nepotism, cronyism and tall poppyness occurs there too. In my personal experience, and now sadly, I expect my wife's soon, I have found all too many biting examples of this in Oz. I have found that if even you work very hard, be successful, have the figures to prove it etc, the Aussies are very good at cutting you down to size as it were. There will always be something. And furthermore those workers that aren't doing so well despite being given adequate chance to improve or those that find ways to take advantage of the system are given a helping hand. If you are seen in some way to disagree with this then you, yourself, are seen as an aggressor so to speak. Another thing to watch for are snitches and spies. These fiends aren't unique to Australia of course but I find that when working in regional Oz they are particularly common. Unbelievably so. As someone said previously there is a common love of gossip and backstabbing. When I started out I was particularly naïve and basically trusted everyone. I soon discovered otherwise....They just can't help themselves. In turn, this can make it hard to develop lasting friendships and so forth. Just something to consider along your way.

I can vouch for the nepotism and cronyism in Aussie society. It's sad but true. I lost a very well remunerated job due to both a case of nepotism and tall poppy syndrome. Interestingly enough, shortly after I first came to Australia I was specially warned about this Tall Poppy Syndrome by a family member who actually sat me down and had a discussion with me as he thought I was a high achiever and would in later life be prone to this. He even gave me a newspaper article about it. I had no experience of what was being said and immediately dismissed it. Rubbish! Gave it no further thought. I was enjoying Oz. I heard it being mentioned here and there over the years so one day decided to look up what it actually meant to gain a fuller understanding. It was then I realised that I had experienced this without even knowing the term for it. Unbelievable - he was right. Fast forward a few years and suddenly this 'shizz started getting real!' Lost a job I had for years over it. I won't go into it as it went further and was a stressful time but I ended up winning some compensation; however I will say what has been said above is quite true. What Deryans above said is absolutely my experience! Aussies feel very threatened by those better than them, especially when they are poms I find. However if you find the right circle then you will get the respect you deserve. The trouble is finding those opportunities in Oz....

They do think Aussie is best - which is often laughable unless its to do with certain sports! I agree, though, if you are a professional with a precise way of speech then you will find many aussies (especially in regional areas) are intimidated by this. I found it best to tone things down, learn and insert some of the local slang in....sometimes with comical results