Ken

On 04/05/2024 at 00:43, AliG said:

Agree with all that, but....  when you offset its usually for the same type of tax - ie if you pay UK income tax on rental earnings in UK then you can offset that against any income tax that would be due in Aus... the bit that I don't know if you can offset different types of tax: when you withdraw form a SIPP in the UK you may be subject to income tax in UK and then CGT in Aus.

This sounds like a question for @Alan Collett

In Australia CGT is part of income tax. It's in the UK that CGT is a different tax from income tax. Despite that you can (normally) offset the CGT paid in the UK against the income tax due in Australia (although you will have to discount it 50% if you've claimed the 50% discount on the gain in Australia).

On 03/05/2024 at 08:12, Wanderer Returns said:

That's good to know. Is that regardless of whether you make those withdrawals monthly, or as a one-off withdrawal at the tax year?

If you are in receipt of a pension the rules are different than for lump sums. Taking a lump sum every month risks the payments being interpreted as a pension so I'd strongly advise against doing that.

That said I'm not aware of anything in written or case law that specifically says taking a lump sum every month either does or does not make it a pension, but even if you win you don't want to be the one who has to go to court to create the case law.

I should also spell out that when I said "any further lump sum withdrawals" I mean after the most recent growth in the fund has been accounted for. Just because you've paid the tax on all the growth at one point doesn't mean that's all you'll ever have to pay, as the money left in the fund should continue to grow.

2 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

Just to clarify, if I was to make further withdrawals as lump sums rather than taking them as a pension, I'd only get taxed on the growth in the fund? And the best time to take a lump sum would be in March so my provider wouldn't withhold any (or very little) tax, and I wouldn't need to reclaim it from the HMRC. Is this correct?

Yes, once you've been taxed on all the growth in the fund any further lump sum withdrawals are treated as withdrawals of capital which are tax free.

3 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

Hi, I want to take a lump sum from my UK SIPP.

I've read that Australia taxes the growth since you became a permanent resident. In my case this is roughly 50%. Using some arbitrary figures, if the value of my SIPP is now £150,000 then the growth part would be about £50,000.

So if I took a 25% lump sum (which would be tax-free in the UK), would I be taxed on just that amount (i.e. £37,500), or would I be required to pay tax on the growth of the whole fund - the full £50,000?

Secondly, is there anything I can do to make the above process more tax efficient?

Thanks in advance.

As Andrew as said you'd be taxed on the £37,500. If you withdrew £50,000 utilising both the 25% tax free and your UK tax free allowance (assuming you don't have any other UK income) then it would be tax free in the UK but you'd be taxed on the full £50,000 in Australia.

The following year if your Pension Plan didn't grow at all, then if you took another £12,500 lump sum using your UK tax free allowance then that £12,500 would be tax free in Australia too. If on the other hand your Pension Plan had grown by another £5,000 then £5,000 would be taxable and £7,500 tax free.

If, however, you chose to take the 75% as a Pension rather than as additional lump sums then it would normally all be taxable income in Australia (so you lose out on getting anything tax free). You can however apply to get the payments paid tax free from the UK with an NT tax code without needing to worry about the annual allowance.

Pay attention to the timing of when you take lump sums. If you take a lump sum in April, only 1/12th of your annual allowance will be available and you'll need to claw back the overpayment at the year-end (you can only get an NT tax code for pensions, not lump sums). Furthermore, the payment will be in the year ended 30th June in Australia and not in the following year, and you'll probably still be waiting for your UK tax refund in June of the following year.

I don't know if UK pension funds allow the 25% lump sum to be paid in more than one payment. If they did, getting it paid in two instalments (say one in June and one in July) would offer a tax saving, as of course would waiting until you are retired when you don't have any other income and have a large tax free amount due to SAPTO.

If you are still working and paying a high tax rate you might want to consider paying the lump sum into Super where it will be taxed at 15% rather than your marginal tax rate.

On 22/03/2024 at 19:57, calNgary said:

but throwing glass bottles is on another level and not something ive heard of happening much.

I doubt many of them can afford to waste the 10 cents.

12 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I couldn’t either.  That’s a very depressing photo.  Those houses won’t win awards for their kerb appeal that’s for sure.  

Actually, if you crouch down and photograph them from the kerb, they probably will look better than they do in that aerial shot.

22 hours ago, technophobic said:

Does anybody know if Q9 on the split year form SA109 only applies to the UK part of the year?

I think it applies to the whole year but don't over stress it because it's not relevant. That question is only relevant if you're trying to claim you are not UK resident. If you are claiming split year treatment (by putting an X in box 3) you can't have claimed to be non-resident for the whole year (by putting an X in box 1).

3 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

We have my Dad staying with us on a 5yr parent VISA so temporary resident, he was bereaved in Covid and left on his own. 

He sold his hime, brought over his money because he's entitled to no state support, so if he goes into care or needs treatments above health insurance levels, he will self-fund.  No assets left in the UK and he now has a will in Australia.

If he should unexpectantly die here, will he need to go through probate in the UK or Australia?

Probate (if it's needed) would be in Australia as that's where his assets (and will) are. If he still had assets in the UK it could need to be done in both countries. Probate isn't always needed. It comes down to whether or not any of the organisations that hold his assets need to see the grant of probate before they release the funds.

As you might be earning a lot of interest on those sale proceeds, make sure to let your bank know that you've left the country and are no longer tax resident in Australia. That way they'll deduct 10% tax from your interest (which you won't like) but (provided that's your only Australian income) you won't have an ongoing need to file Australian tax returns. You'll be able to use that Australian withholding tax to pay your UK tax bill.

Beware that Australian taxes on non-residents selling Australian property can be onerous (plus there will UK tax to deal with to). You are definitely better to sell your property before you leave (if it entirely qualifies as your main residence, it'll be tax free).

23 hours ago, jrobs said:

Hello - I have tried searching the forum for my exact topic but cannot find exactly what I am after.

 

I have inherited a SIPP in the UK.

I left the UK approx. 10 years ago and intend to live in Aus for the rest of my life

I am 45 and my mother was 77 when she passed.

 

I believe I can take it as a lump sum and be taxed at my income rate? or I can choose Flex drawdown?

 

I really do not want to touch it for another 20 years until I retire and earn less so My queries are - 

Can I transfer it to a managed fund with better fees and performance and if so is this tax free?

Can I leave it as a SIPP, let it grow and not touch it for 20 years until I retire and earn less?

If I do or when I do draw down on it - do I pay income tax in Aus or in the UK?

And Does anybody have a great IFA in the UK who can also deal with Australian residents?

 

Many Thanks if anybody can help

There are no inheritance taxes in Australia and while there is IHT in the UK a SIPP is IHT Free. Take the money now. You'll only be taxed in Australia on any growth that occurred after you inherited it and (because it's a SIPP) there is no UK tax.

If you leave it in a SIPP for the next 20 years, there is no UK tax (because a SIPP is tax free in the UK) but there will be a lot of Australian tax to pay when you cash it in (becaus a SIPP is not tax free in Australia). You'll have to pay tax in Australia on the growth of the SIPP over the next 20 years all in one lump year. Even if you are no working that could still be a lot of tax.

If you want to keep the money for your retirement (I'm assuming you plan to do that in Australia) you should consider Super or other investments in Australia.

2 hours ago, Snowbound said:

My question is regarding tax… if we do not earn any income in Australia beyond 30th June and complete our tax return and advise the ATO that we are leaving…. Would we then need to complete an Australian tax return for the following year declaring UK income. Or…. If we continued working for another month (July) and had to complete a tax return from the UK next year… would we be taxed on our UK income too? Any advice gratefully received. Thank you. 

There is a question on every Australian tax return. Final Tax Return? Yes/No. If you've left the country and no longer have any Australian income, you should answer yes to that question and will not be troubled for another tax return. If you leave Australia in July 2024 then your final tax return will be FY2025, but you'll be entering the date that you left Australia as part of the return and your worldwide income only goes up to that date. Any UK income (or other foreign income) after that date isn't included on the return and isn't taxed.

Similarly, your first UK tax return will run 6th April 2024 to 5th April 2025 but you'll include the date you returned to the UK on the return and won't need to report any Australian income (or any other foreign income) received before that date.

Note that if you still have an interest-bearing Australian bank account, make sure they know you've left the country (provide them with your new address outside Australia) and have removed your TFN from the account details. You'll have 10% withholding tax levied on the interest (which you'll be able to claim on your UK tax return) but won't have any requirement to lodge an Australian tax return if that is your only Australian income. I've had client have to go the expense of lodging Australian tax returns because their bank didn't know they had left the country, and so were reporting their interest and TFN to the ATO triggering the demand for a tax return.

On 14/04/2024 at 19:23, Marisawright said:

I know about the exemption, was just trying to keep it simple.  Anyway, I thought that if he bought another property and has been living in it, the UK house can't be claimed as his main residence any more?

No. You can only have one property as your main residence at a time (other than for a short overlap period) but just because you are living in a house doesn't mean you have to choose that one to be your main residence at the time.

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Did you sell your own home, that you were living in before you moved, or was it rented out?

If it was your own home, then there are no Australian tax liabilities.  If you rented it out, even for a short time, then it's an investment property and you should've been declaring the rental income already.   I'd advise using a tax agent to work out what your liability for tax would be, but bottom line is that it doesn't matter because how or when you transfer the money won't make any difference to the tax liability. 

If it was the only property he owned (he said he used the money to buy a property in Australia so I'm assuming he didn't already have one) then provided he lived there within the last 6 years, it was still his main residence and so CGT exempt regardless of being rented out.

On 08/04/2024 at 15:02, Paulined said:

Thank you yes we have declared the rental income. I do have an accountant but to be honest he did not seem to be confident what he was telling me. Cheers

 

Did you live in the property at any point? You can still claim the main residence exemption for up to 6 years after you ceased to live there. You can only claim the main residence on one property at a time though, so it depends upon what other properties you own.

On 09/04/2024 at 15:47, Philip said:

I would have thought that the Aus government, upon receiving the details of a foreign passport as part of the application for citizenship by descent, would prevent that foreign passport from subsequently being used to apply for a visa, however I know of people who have managed to get a visa (evisitor / ETA) and were allowed to Australia using the smartgates, so they never even had to tell an immigration officer they were actually a citizen.

I think the problem might be that when you get a new passport it has a new number. The system ought to recognise the passport number if you previously had a visa on it (and if that visa was cancelled because you became a citizen it ought to know you are a citizen) but harder to catch if it's a new passport.

13 hours ago, Peter said:

This means that I can make my first entry to Australia between Initial Entry Date (IED) and Must Not Arrive After (MNAA) date?

No. Between those dates is after the Initial Entry Date and if you wait until then you'll invalidate the visa. 

On 21/03/2024 at 14:57, nickinmk said:

Over the years I have found this forum to be a priceless source of knowledge. Without it I would have had no idea that I was able to write to the ATO and have them determine the "Undeducted Purchase Price" of my UK Private Pension. As a result I have an percentage each year of my Private Pension payment that is essentially "tax free".

 

Now for my question. I pay tax to the ATO on my UK Private Pension payments that I receive each month. I am 61 years old, and have no other income. My wife has no income, and as a result pays no tax.

Could we set up a "Family Discretionary Trust", and deposit my UK Private Pension into that, and then pay ourselves out of the Trust?  This would then lower the overall amount of tax paid.

Or is this wishful thinking?

Thanks

Nick

That is just wishful thinking. You would still be viewed as having received the pension and taxed on it before you deposited it in the trust. You can't turn your income into trust income. You could turn an asset into a trust asset and then the income from that asset becomes trust income, but to do that you'd need to convert your entire pension fund into a trust asset which would trigger a host of tax issues in both the UK and Australia.

If you have any spare cash to invest you might want to put it into accounts opened only in your wife's name as the interest/dividends paid will effectively be tax free. 

On 08/03/2024 at 03:11, Blue Manna said:

I thought she had changed that?

She has, but the point is that thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of other people are doing the same thing and don't have a spouse with the political exposure to force them to change.

On 21/03/2024 at 19:31, Jules13OJ said:

Thanks for suggestions! 

My reading of it was that I would be taxed by BOTH UK and Australia and am wanting to know how I can claim back the tax paid as per the double taxation treaty. (not sure whether it will be UK/Australia who pay it back)

I am currently classed as UK resident for tax purposes as I have always lived/worked in UK and did so up until Jan this year which puts me in the UK bracket for tax residency as between April 23 and April 24 I will have spent more than 183 days there. The form on HMRC site as above has a section where you can request split tax arrangements which I guess is what I am hoping for- so that my income April 23- Jan15th is taxed by UK only but then tax thereafter is taxed by Australia only. 

None of this is ever straightforward! 

 

Normally neither need to pay it back (the only exception is if you paid them too much) since only one will take tax at source. If you have an Australian employer they'll have paid PAYGW, but nothing will have gone to HMRC. If your Australian employment income is taxable in the UK it will need to be reported on a Self Assessment Tax Return. The foreign income pages of the Return (section SA106) have all the boxes necessary to report the amount of tax you have paid in Australia. Only if UK tax due is higher than the tax you paid in Australia will you have to pay any UK tax. If the UK tax is lower you will not get a refund (although if you've been taxed at source on other UK income you might get that tax refunded).

It works the same when it's the other way around (e.g. if you have UK income that is taxable in Australia) however as you are on a temporary visa that does not apply to you.

If split treatment applies (which is the case if you've permanently moved to Australia) then only your Australian income (and Australian tax paid) for the part of the year you were UK resident is entered on your UK tax return (but UK income for the full year). This might get you a refund of UK tax withheld back from HMRC (if you've paid too much), but there wouldn't be any Australian employment income taxed in the UK so your question about claiming tax back is irrelevant.

18 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Absolutely nothing to do with the double taxation system. 

Absolutely everything to do with the double taxation system. The Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between the UK and Australia specifically allocates the taxation of pension income only to the country where the pensioner is resident. This is different to the rules on all other income.

27 minutes ago, BillW said:

I have seen hints in various places that one lump sum withdrawal per year might be a partial workaround and could be useful if you have nor set up the allocated pension yet - ie if you are still in accumulation. 

Sorry, but I can't see how one withdrawal would give you any advantage over twelve withdrawals in the same tax year (assuming you're a UK resident for the whole tax year). It's still income and if your total income is over the tax-free threshold you'll be paying tax.

On 18/03/2024 at 15:06, InnerVoice said:

I recall you'd had a poor experience in that regard which must've been frustrating. Hopefully it was an exception and most financial advisors are a little more helpful, even if you aren't exactly minted.

If the OP has a small amount in his super (e.g. $100k) then cashing it in before leaving Australia would make sense, just as you have done. Whilst not to be sniffed at, £50-60k isn't a huge sum of money in the grand scheme of things. By the time you've factored into the cost of moving back etc, what's left over could probably be invested into an ISA over a couple of years.

However, if we're talking about a significant amount then 'cash and run' might not be the best course of action. Assuming the OP doesn't intend to work when he returns to the UK, he'll be able to use his UK personal allowance which would be approximately £63,000 over 5 years. He could take a smaller lump sum from his super and then draw the rest as an income stream, and still pay no (or very little) tax in the UK. That way his super would stay invested, with the likelihood of producing better returns. Also, there wouldn't be a large cash balance that would require investment, plus the need to spread it across different banks for security if the amount was greater than £85,000 (FSCS threshold).

I mentioned 5 years because the OP said he was 62, and I assume he will be entitled to a full or part UK state pension at 67, so that's another income stream to take into consideration. That's why I suggested seeking professional advice if his query hasn't already been answered by previous comments in this thread.

I find it curious that you are concerned about spreading the investment between banks due to the FSCS threshold, yet you seem happy to leave it all in one Super fund despite a Super fund having no government guarantee at all.

6 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

As I understand it you need to ensure that you're not deemed a UK tax resident retrospectively before you've cashed in your super, due to the overlap between the two tax systems.

I was at an expat gathering a few months ago and coincidentally there was a couple (mid 60s) doing exactly what the OP intends to do. They'd been advised by their accountant that to avoid any complications they should cash in their Aussie super before 5th April (end of UK tax year), then sell up and leave Australia permanently between 6th April and 30th June. That way your Aussie super is just cash before the start of the new UK tax year, so the HMRC cannot class it as income when you complete your tax return at the end of your first year back. You will have also left Australia permanently before the start of the new tax year here, so you'll be straight with the ATO once you've completed your last return, unless you choose to leave the funds in an Australian savings account earning interest.

Your first year back doesn't begin until you return. That approach only makes sense if HMRC's power to deem you resident was restricted to the period between the beginning of the tax year and the date you returned. It isn't. If they've got grounds to deem you resident (such as a home in the UK available for you to live in - meaning one that isn't rented out) they're not restricted to the current tax year but can apply it to any years that the grounds existed. If they don't have any grounds to deem you resident, then they can't.

2 hours ago, Philip said:

I've come across https://atlantic.money/ which claims to charge a flat fee of £3 to send however much your UK bank account will let you send them by Faster Payments in one transaction.

But what are their exchange rates? The fee is normally a tiny fraction of what you pay. 

An interim solution is an account with Wise. You can get a physical debit card (sent to your UK address) that you'll be able to use from day one (without any of the FX hassle of using a foreign card). You can even have an Australian BSB and account number if you need to give anyone Australian bank details before you arrive.