jennlx

I do genuinely think kids are pretty resilient. I went to a private high school in Australia (but 'affordable') and there were a fair few students who started around 14 and got on and were fine. Our head girl or school leader or whatever it was called had only moved to Melbourne in year 10 aged 16 and two years later was the most popular girl in the school! But don't listen to me, I booked our flights, got shipping quotes - then got cold feet and had an expensive holiday instead! (and we're kind of starting to regret it....) Good Luck!

We flew SIA in May with 4 month old. To be honest, it was OK. Some of the cabin crew were amazing (one of them took my toddler off for a walk when he was getting ratty!) but on other flights, the crew seemed tired and grumpy and surly. Because of the way the seats are behind the basinettes, I also ended up with my husband sitting behind me on some flights - very annoying, especially at meal times. My baby was fine on the plane, though, and she's quite a precious baby. Remember to give loads of milk - we stuck to her usual amount and she got a bit dehydrated. No jet lag at all, either way. I'd heard such brilliant things about SIA but I wasn't overly impressed (and I've flown long haul with most carriers). I'm going Emirates next time.

Gosh, so many bitter people...I'm off to a more pleasant thread!

To the OP, I am in the exact same boat. We decided that the UK was better for those with not much money, like us (actually, we do alright - it's the crippling nursery fees which are doing us in). After moving to Oz, we'd have no savings left. We have a 6 month old and a 2 year old. So, we decided to stay. Now our rental home is on the market to be sold by the landlord and we're viewing hugely overpriced flats with no gardens, nor parks within a walking distance. Properties to buy in our affordability keep getting snapped up by buy-to-letters. And I'm sick sick sick of all the doom and gloom. Closing libraries?! Classrooms in ex-Woolworths stores? Is this a country I want my kids to live in? I'm starting to think we're mad. Hence why I'm back reading posts on here. But it is a huge choice - we don't have a house to let out as a safety net. Or family to let us stay with them until we were back on our feet. If we did, NO QUESTION, I'd be there now. It's hard when it's an 'all or nothing' commitment. So I completely understand your predicament. But everyone's right - you need to make your own decision. Everything is relative. Someone else's heaven might be your hell. And, as your post illustrates, everyone is in completely different circumstances. Good luck!

It's funny, when I was living in Australia (up to age 21), I was not materialistic at all. I never thought, "London?! But how on earth will I get my Tim Tams and Sportsgirl clothes there??". I simply leapt and embraced the adventure. But now, over here, I go into a cold sweat thinking of leaving behind UK retail. I've turned into a right sad git.

We went to the zoo recently, 2 adults, and it cost over $80 (can't remember exact cost- our kids are under 3 and so were free). There aren't the masses of theme parks you have here in the UK (that I know about anyway!), but it's very cheap to have a great family day out (which you don't get here): beach, mountains, bush etc. The playgrounds in Melbourne are GREAT. I agree with Petal though - my grandmother and aunt live in Doncaster and forever moan about the lack of a train to the CBD. My aunt gets a bus and it's a pain. Apparently there have been rumours and promises of a train line since forever, but none as yet. I also agree with the very good advice to visit before making the great leap over. Yes, it's costly - but it's even more costly to ship everything back!

Just to explain, I am expat Aussie (in UK 12 years, am now 33) and my husband British. We keep toying with the idea of living in Oz, and thought we'd have a 2 week holiday to get his partner visa validated and either decide to emigrate, or put the matter to bed and concentrate on life in the UK. So off we went: myself, hubby, 2 year old boy and 4 month old baby. NEVER AGAIN. No, just joking, but travelling with two so small is not for the faint-hearted. All this codswallop about young kids being oh-so-adaptable, pffffft. My son is still very traumatised by the whole trip! He was never very affectionate and now he clings to us continually. The actual flights were bearable - both kids were quiet and played quite happily (on the way back, many people commented on our "well behaved children" ). The airline staff were hit and miss - some lovely, some not so lovely. We were given the same four toys on all legs of the journey: a Shrek stuffed toy for the baby and a game of Cluedo (suitable for ages 7+) for the toddler so I would ensure you come prepared! Actually, the only thing which was of any use whatsoever was the portable DVD player, an absolute MUST for everyone with small children. Anyone flying with babies, be prepared for them to feed more - I stuck to what she normally drinks, but she got a bit dehydrated on the way over. On arrival, my son was very emotional and upset - every time we asked him a question, he burst into tears. During the trip, he was very unsettled and frustrated - and started hitting us, which he now still does (albeit a lot less). Day one Hubby bought pie from large chain in Melbourne - cue food poisoning. Wasn't the best start. We bought a 'pre paid' (i.e. pay as you go) SIM for our trip - beware, you have to register the SIM online or over the phone in order to use, top up etc. I didn't do this and had to end up buying another SIM. We bought a cheap Nokia for $19 from Virgin shop in the CBD. We spent the majority of our trip in Hampton. I really don't understand about people saying that Australians are rude and unfriendly, as we were completely bowled over (and slightly suspicious!) of how nice everyone was. Although maybe Australians just love small children? Everyone chatted to us - even people who just happened to be coming down the street at the same time as us. It's a really lovely area, so family friendly. Lots and kids and teenagers on their way to play sports, more than I see here. On Saturday, everyone picks up their kids from their various sporting activities, then go to the high street and has a coffee and a chat, buys fresh bread and goes home for lunch (as I used to do as a child), lovely. Teenagers encountered on the street were HUGELY more polite than I have ever experienced here and did not appear to be "hanging around" like they do here. I HATE it here how the teenagers hang out in playgrounds, drinking and swearing - none of that there. Sadly, massively outside of our affordability (as is all of Bayside), but if you have the money, you can't do better in my opinion. The coffee shops were amazing! Delicious cakes and fresh fresh FRESH sandwiches! It really made me disgusted at some of the slop which is served up to me in cafes here in the UK. The coffee in cafes is a MILLION times better than UK - I actually cannot drink the coffee in my local chain anymore, it's like Thames Scum in comparison. I wasn't massively shocked by the price of food - seems fairly reasonable to me, but I am a food snob and shop in Waitrose mostly. I must admit, I wasn't too pleased with the taste of some food - all a bit odd. I know the sausage weakness of Australia is well documented in these forums, but the smell of a sausage sizzle on a high street on Saturdays actually made my stomach flip, it was that bad. Also, bacon, cheese and ham were yuck (why do they keep the rind on ham?!). I LOVED the bread, but then again, I was paying $6 a loaf . Raw chicken breast actually was formed of flesh and was not as rubbery as the chicken breast here (I really don't want to know what they do here to the poor chickens here). The red meat was ok - my husband was delighted at the price of T-bone, but it just tasted the same to me. Chocolate unedible, crisps horrible (obviously not too important). Playgrounds for the kids were brilliant - I highly recommend Artplay behind Fed Square. It seems that here in SW London, everyone buys their playground equipment from the same French manufacturer and so they're much of a muchness, whereas in Australia they are all formed from scratch with different designs and themes. My son loved them. Also, just as an aside, my family are Catholic and I'm a bit scared of the Catholic Church over here. Very conservative and strict and all that. While in Oz, we had my daughter baptised in my old primary school - I am so impressed by their attitude, really liberal and up-to-date. Even the fact that we could arrange it so easily from the UK, whereas here you have to jump through numerous hurdles, to prove you are Catholic enough to be allowed into the church. My husband, who attended a strict Catholic boys school in London, was very impressed by their attitude. Bit of doom and gloom: we turned on the Australian news one morning (didn't watch much TV at all, if any - my Aussie family only watch UK TV). News article one: an Aussie company in administration. News article two: an Aussie company threatened with administration. My sister works in travel sales in Syd and she was bragging like nobody's business about it all booming, even suggesting my husband go down that route. While she was staying with us, 40 staff in her team were made redundant. Also, in terms of jobs, my family did report that in their fields the working day is much longer than in the UK. My aunt and uncle (from different sides of the family) both start work at 7.30am (my uncle works in sales, my aunt is a legal secretary) - they both did not think this unusual. They don't finish any earlier either - my uncle finishes after 6pm, my aunt at around 7pm. In a nutshell, I was really bracing myself for a trip down 1970s England (not that I was even here then!) but was generally pleased. Certain things made me very homesick for the UK (including a cringey bank visit where the staff were yelling from the teller to the help desk about a customer's $100k cheque, while he was standing there) but I could see us living there. Whether we will take the plunge is another matter .

True...I was just pointing out that when UK banks do charge fees, boy do they charge fees! Did you hear about the kerfuffle about unfair bank charges in the UK? It went to court and surprise, surprise, at the time of the sub prime banking losses, the court ruled that it was up to banks to deem what is a reasonable charge. I travelled to Oz and went £2 overdrawn accidentally on my Nationwide account (underestimated the delay in payments appearing) and got a £20 fee. I paid it when I received their letter, but by the time it arrived, another £20 had been charged. This happened twice more. £80 in charges, when I was standing in their bank after a week of going overdrawn trying to sort it out and pay in full. How many months of holding an account open in Australia is £80? Anyway, sorry, completely off track. Back to the OP:

Just in response to the comments about the rip-off Australian banks and their high, high, high fees: we're renting property for our upcoming holiday in Oz. The owner wants to repay the bond into my Australian bank account to avoid the $8 charge she would incur transferring it to my UK bank account. HSBC charged me £25 to transfer money from my UK bank account into her Australian account to begin with. I was not very sympathetic!

Yes, that's what the friendly man told me, but he also said that he doesn't know which basinette has been booked for us in plane (but one definitely is) - so we don't know where the baby will be, so not sure how we can check in and select seats. I've flown with S.A. before and all was good - but I'm not a fan of their customer service. Doesn't help that it's in (Germany? Netherlands?) so we had problems hearing each other (not being rude - am talking about quality of reception of call, quite a bit staticy).

Plus they wouldn't upgrade the hyper toddler, teething baby and the hysterical and annoyed mother to disturb biz class. I've been doing some searches, this indeed does seem to be standard practice. Does anyone know how online check in works with a baby? When I rang, they told me that they have no idea which basinette has been allocated to us, so how would I know which seats to try and nab for online check in as obviously we would want to be with the baby? I hope it will all be fine - I think Mr. Toddler may have a huge strop if he's not sitting with me so maybe he'll do the job for us!

Seems a bit silly, really! Surely it only irritates everyone to do the whole shuffle thing. If this is common practice, I would have appreciated it if the customer service advisor who booked the flight for us would have told us also! TBH, I haven't had the best experience with Singapore so far - doublecharging my card when debiting over the phone then spending over a week 'investigating', sitting on hold for 25 mins at a stretch to book the bassinette...I thought I was booking with the best, but will probably fly Emirates next time and give them a go.

Thanks for your responses....they ARE reassuring. I just can't understand it, I asked for a guarantee that my son won't be sitting alone and he said "sorry, I can't guarantee....it's a busy flight". What I wanted to hear was "of course we can't have your son alone - one way or another we will make sure he is sitting next to one of you". Is this normal practice then? Is it just a free-for-all? Did I just pick busy flights? I guess normally it wasn't a problem for us as, pre-kids, there was just the two of us.

Oh, thanksthanksthanks....!! Poor Singapore Airlines, I was hysterical madwoman on the phone to them (while the ungrateful rugrat in question used the opportunity to decorate my walls with pencil....).

Myself, husband, 2 year old and 3 month old baby are flying on Saturday to Melbourne to validate visas/reccie/holiday/see family. We're flying with Singapore Airlines and had a lot of back and forwards conversation with them as needed to book bassinette before baby born. Anyway, just got off the phone to them and as I didn't choose my seats online, my 2 year old son is sitting by himself on the Singapore to Melbourne leg of the flight. I didn't know you had to choose seats!!! I feel like crying - they say that they can ask the stewards to try and ask someone to move, but there is no guarantees. Really, someone will move so he can sit next to my husband, won't they?? I'm stressing beyond belief - I have been on flights where people have been asked to move for families and the vast majority of people won't/pretend not to hear. I really don't know if I'm prepared to "wing it" and hope for the best...my boy only just turned 2.

Postage in Australia. My father sent a fairly small box of lego for my son's birthday. $50 postage. $50!!! God knows what the lego set him back - I didn't have the heart to tell him about Amazon. Next: greeting cards in Australia.

Fair enuff, cheers.

Just out of interest sake, do you have to pay student debts from Oz if not repaid when you emigrate? (I get nice big statements from Oz Govt for my ever increasing uni debt every year - there is not a requirement to pay if you are abroad/they don't chase for money.)

I can't get over the hairdresser comment - I'm going to get a semi perm colour and cut tomorroz. £140. I thought $120 was a bargain - I still remember my most expensive haircolour/cut ever: in St Kilda, $260 in 2001. It looked amazing though!

Thanks for all your responses!! We don't really drive in London per se, we're in a London borough so still fairly busy I guess. I think I got the responses I wanted!

With the shoe on the other foot 'n' all... Here in the UK, I have some great friendships with Brits at work - can rely on them, tell them anything, be myself etc. I laugh so hard with them! But they have their own already established network of high school friends, uni friends, family etc. and so I am mostly surplus to requirements and we don't socialise much out of work. Plus, we live in different counties. Outside of work, all my friends are non Brits - New Zealanders, Japanese, South Africans, Irish etc. They are the ones who have time and will make an effort as we're all in the same boat and looking for friendships. I prefer my Brit friends. I get on fine with the overseas contingent but it's a bit stilted - both trying to create a friendship based on circumstance than anything else. I don't go out of my way to make friends with fellow Australians - the whole "Australia is better because...." got very tired very quickly. And they go home eventually too.

Ok, so being Londonites and all, we've only gotten around to driving in the UK. We're going to Melb for a holiday/reccie at the end of April and don't know if we should rent a hire a car. We have two young children, but plan to stay very central so could also (hopefully) just jump on the train (I do realise that public transport isn't what it is in London, but will mostly be bumming around stops on the Sandy Line so should be ok). My OH is very nervous about driving in a different country and doesn't want to hire a car but I tend to think it would actually be easier to drive in Melbourne than London, no? Obviously miles into kilometers and those stupid turns in the city when trams at the intersection....but is Melb pretty ok for nervous new drivers?

I would be very interested myself in any responses. I too have been in the UK for a long time, and every single friend I have kept in contact with from Melbourne are now stay-at-home Mums with no immediate plans to return to work. I have this horrible feeling that if we move to Melbourne, I will be cast out by the female population for working and my children will suffer terrible psychological scars as they stand at the school gates not for their beloved mother but for the after school club to collect! Anyway, I digress...I did find this website, http://www.goodstart.org.au/ which shows childcare vacancies/options which I hope helps! (A really good website, many places are very transparent with fees - wish they had the same here!)