MaxV

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Rose coloured glasses means seeing things in a more positive light.  If you read my post properly, you would see that I do NOT see the situation in a positive light. 

It is a ridiculous situation which is stacked against the pension owner.  But I do not find it at all complex.

Clearly you think that means I am missing something.  It would be helpful if you explained what I am missing, rather than simply "disagreeing".  

G`day Maria,

Relax...... We have different opinions, no big deal..... you have made some statements, I disagree with them.... you have every right to your opinion, I have every right to mine..... Who cares..... It does not matter..... there is no right or wrong, we just disagree on a few things...... no problem.....

Each individual has to assess their own position on these issues, we all have unique situations, that is the main reason people seek professional advice, ie, taxation, rules, regulations, country of origin/residence/retirement, retirement plans/expectations, families, partners, children, insurances, wills, health issues, age brackets, budgets, debts, knowledge, time, energy, assets, time left on this planet, etc, etc, these issues are also fluid/dynamic, particularly changes in laws and legislation...... Again good reason for seeking financial/professional advice.....

There is no one single solution that will fit everybodies needs, each individuals situation is unique, you just have to work through it and find the answer that best suits you and the retirement that you are seeking and try and work your way towards it.....

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Can you clarify where you think my spectacles are rose coloured?   I am saying the system is simple, BUT that does not mean it is good news.  What it means is that your options are extremely limited.  

I have clearly stated that you have a choice - transfer your UK private pension to the only compliant fund available, or set up your own SMSF with a compliant deed.  Those are your only options.   It is NOT satisfactory, so I am not happy about it, which means I'm not looking through "rose-coloured spectacles".   However it is undeniably simple.

If you believe there are other options, then please expand.  Some links to sites or sources for us to research would be helpful.  In particular, please explain to @Gbye grey sky, because he's told you that (as far as he is aware) there are no other options. 

Perhaps I should borrow your rose coloured spectacles......  Your rose coloured opinions are in rose/red/pink.....

No, that would have made no difference.      Disagree.

The system is not as complex as you seem to think it is.       Disagree.

There is no such thing as a 'QROPS SMSF".   "There is an SMSF whose deed contains clauses to make it compliant with QROPS"      This is exactly what I was referring to, it is often called or referred to as a QROPS SMSF or SMSF QROPS...... 

That all sounds pretty straightforward to me.     Disagree,

 I think people make it complicated by floundering around, convinced there must be a way around the reality.    Disagree.

But the fact is the rule exists and it's pretty black and white.   The actual process of setting up your SMSF and transferring the money is the fiddly bit.    Disagree.

As previously stated above, rose coloured opinions in rose/red/pink......  No further clarification required.....

I feel sure GB Grey Sky can speak for himself.....

You have your opinion, I have mine...... I feel sure GB Grey Sky has his own opinion too.....

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

No, that would have made no difference.   The system is not as complex as you seem to think it is.   The rule, (as I understand it), is that if you have a private pension in the UK, regardless of what type it is, it cannot be transferred to a standard Australian superannuation fund.   It can be transferred to a QROPS compliant fund only. 

There is only one QROPS compliant fund in Australia.   If you don't like that one, you have to set up your own (i.e. a self managed super fund or SMSF).   There is no such thing as a 'QROPS SMSF".   There is an SMSF whose deed contains clauses to make it compliant with QROPS, but otherwise it's the same as any other SMSF.  

That all sounds pretty straightforward to me.  I think people make it complicated by floundering around, convinced there must be a way around the reality.   

It must be incredibly frustrating, especially since (as previously stated), the problem arises from one small requirement of the British system, which isn't even relevant to anyone over 55.  And as GreySky says, the Australian superannuation funds were willing to make special arrangements to cater for the British rule, but for some reason the UK authorities wouldn't agree.   So it's doubly annoying because it's so unnecessary.  But the fact is the rule exists and it's pretty black and white.   The actual process of setting up your SMSF and transferring the money is the fiddly bit.

Perhaps I should borrow your rose coloured spectacles......  Your rose coloured opinions are in rose/red/pink.....

No, that would have made no difference.      Disagree.

The system is not as complex as you seem to think it is.       Disagree.

There is no such thing as a 'QROPS SMSF".   "There is an SMSF whose deed contains clauses to make it compliant with QROPS"      This is exactly what I was referring to, it is often called or referred to as a QROPS SMSF or SMSF QROPS...... 

That all sounds pretty straightforward to me.     Disagree,

 I think people make it complicated by floundering around, convinced there must be a way around the reality.    Disagree.

But the fact is the rule exists and it's pretty black and white.   The actual process of setting up your SMSF and transferring the money is the fiddly bit.    Disagree.

1 hour ago, Gbye grey sky said:

I think you may misunderstand what a SiPP is or what it infers Max.  We set up SiPPs when we were living in the UK.  You cannot transfer UK SiPPs directly to an Aussie Super except for the solitary retail fund available - even if you are over 55.

The UK tax authorities have created a surreal ‘Alice in Wonderland’ world in which you effectively cannot transfer your pension if you are under 55 solely because Super funds possess a facility whereby under certain circumstances you can access the pension before you reach 55 (this despite the fact that Super fund providers were prepared to ring-fence such transfers and make them subject to the UK rules)......... and you cannot transfer it when you are over 55 presumably on the grounds that they believe in Australia ageing works in reverse and you will someday become under 55.

I can kind of see why the UK authorities want expats to keep their pension trapped in the UK but the reality is that they have allowed the SMSF ‘loophole’ to remain thereby obliging people to pay large chunks of their pension to 3rd parties for no logical purpose and then have to manage and audit a SMSF.  My understanding is that the 10 year reporting requirement on QROPS transfers is precisely intended to prevent the early closing of the SMSF and transfer to a standard industry Super.  The SMSF is therefore effectively for life.

G`day GGrey Sky,

This is what I said....

"I have seen suggestions where SMSF, QROPS SMSF and SIPP`s are all being touted as potential vehicles that could be utilised in UK pension transfer to Aussie Super, it seems you guys already have UK SIPPS, have you considered tranferring your existing SIPPS directly across to Aussie Super thereby possibly avoiding the extra complexity of additional SMSF or QROPS SMSF....."

Certainly I do not pretend to understand the system compexities/practices to any great extent, it surely is a Dogs Breakfast at very best.....

Perhaps I should have said   "have you considered tranferring your existing SIPPS **directly or indirectly** across to Aussie Super thereby possibly avoiding the extra complexity of additional SMSF or QROPS SMSF....."

I think often these systems are engineered to be as complex as humanly possible and so designed to put people off wanting/choosing to deal with them, this can be a very effective policy, for instance, several times I have been perfectly entitled to a financial claim/reward within government structures, once for around $40 which meant spending over 6 hours queueing, paperwork, interviews etc, (I walked out and enjoyed my day elsewhere), another time for $100 which took over 3yrs of dispute resolution with different people and departments including me paying for advice/support, (I just let it go as it was simply not financially worth investing the time, money, energy or effort)... 

16 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I posted the link a few minutes before you did.  

I don't think anyone has suggested the process is straightforward.  It's just that under the new rules, you effectively have no choice but to wait until you're 55.

The process should be simple, except that the British regulations  insist on the "no access till you're 55" rule, which no standard Australian super fund can meet.  It's stupid really - if you can't transfer the money until you're 55, why does it matter if the rules of the Australian super fund say you can access it before 55????  Surely they could make a rule that IF you transfer the pension AFTER you've reached 55, that restriction isn't necessary - then you'd have your choice of every superannuation fund in Australia, because that's the only obstacle to them being compliant.   

Another example of crazy bureaucracy!

 

G`day Marisa,

You said, "I don't think anyone has suggested the process is straightforward.  It's just that under the new rules, you effectively have no choice but to wait until you're 55."

I disagree, there are plenty of claims both amateur, semi-professional and professional, that sugggest/offer/recommend/promote so called straight-forward solutions, including pre 55yrs and post 55yrs criteria.....  The difficulty is separating the genuine solutions/information from the bogus/false/misleading claims/scams/misinformation etc.......

3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I posted the link a few minutes before you did.  

I don't think anyone has suggested the process is straightforward.  It's just that under the new rules, you effectively have no choice but to wait until you're 55.

The process should be simple, except that the British regulations  insist on the "no access till you're 55" rule, which no standard Australian super fund can meet.  It's stupid really - if you can't transfer the money until you're 55, why does it matter if the rules of the Australian super fund say you can access it before 55????  Surely they could make a rule that IF you transfer the pension AFTER you've reached 55, that restriction isn't necessary - then you'd have your choice of every superannuation fund in Australia, because that's the only obstacle to them being compliant.   

Another example of crazy bureaucracy!

 

G`day Marisa,

The links we have posted are different.....

They both originate from the same general website, But, the content is different, both are relevant and very likely to be of interest to a reader........

Your Link = https://directdocs.com.au/ozsmsfdocs.html#completeq

My Link = https://directdocs.com.au/ozsmigrants.html

2 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

This issue does not only affect Poms either.  Any Ozzie who has spent time working in the UK and provided with a private pension by their employer (contributory or not) is also in this dilemma.

My wife has now turned 55 so can move her pension over so we have the problem x 2 now.  We have gone full circle now as a joint SMSF is looking more tenable given that we can ‘pool’ the two UK SiPPs into a single joint SMSF and benefit from some economies of scale.

It somewhat irks me though that UK pension funds seem to insist now on acting through a UK financial advisor and setting up an SMSF is far from a straightforward process necessitating another ‘expert’.  It all seems a giant rort effectively aided and abetted by the governments of the UK and Australia to place a significant proportion of your UK pension savings into the hands of a number of 3rd parties.

G`day  GG Sky, 

I too share your ability to continue travelling in ever increasing circles on this issue, I am sure there are many, many others on similar orbits to ourselves.....

I quote    "We have gone full circle now as a joint SMSF is looking more tenable given that we can ‘pool’ the two UK SiPPs into a single joint SMSF and benefit from some economies of scale."  

I have seen suggestions where SMSF, QROPS SMSF and SIPP`s are all being touted as potential vehicles that could be utilised in UK pension transfer to Aussie Super, it seems you guys already have UK SIPPS, have you considered tranferring your existing SIPPS directly across to Aussie Super thereby possibly avoiding the extra complexity of additional SMSF or QROPS SMSF..... 

12 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

https://directdocs.com.au/ozsmsfdocs.html#completeq

Many Thanks M, I am also somewhat familiar with this site too........ Like I said earlier.....

"It is being suggested that once you reach 55yrs of age, it is straightforward to complete the process, many people are queing up for this age barrier to pass, however there is still a significant minefield to navigate, many people offering advice... BUT.... the stakes are very high when you can lose your life savings and who can you trust or put your faith in.........

Plenty of barriers and obstacles, no directions, pathways or solutions...... Clock is ticking, how long can you afford to wait....... Seemingly, historically with time comes extra complexity and obstacles......"

Same Site you have quoted, have a look here...... A little light reading.......

https://directdocs.com.au/ozsmigrants.html

2 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

This issue does not only affect Poms either.  Any Ozzie who has spent time working in the UK and provided with a private pension by their employer (contributory or not) is also in this dilemma.

My wife has now turned 55 so can move her pension over so we have the problem x 2 now.  We have gone full circle now as a joint SMSF is looking more tenable given that we can ‘pool’ the two UK SiPPs into a single joint SMSF and benefit from some economies of scale.

It somewhat irks me though that UK pension funds seem to insist now on acting through a UK financial advisor and setting up an SMSF is far from a straightforward process necessitating another ‘expert’.  It all seems a giant rort effectively aided and abetted by the governments of the UK and Australia to place a significant proportion of your UK pension savings into the hands of a number of 3rd parties.

I feel sure that many people will share our predicament, there are plenty of obstacles and apparently no clear pathway or direction to achieve a simple and smooth transfer of your UK pension to Australian Super....... 

It is being suggested that once you reach 55yrs of age, it is straightforward to complete the process, many people are queing up for this age barrier to pass, however there is still a significant minefield to navigate, many people offering advice... BUT.... the stakes are very high when you can lose your life savings and who can you trust or put your faith in.........

Just have a look at the Aussie Banking system and royal commission for example.......

Plenty of barriers and obstacles, no directions, pathways or solutions...... Clock is ticking, how long can you afford to wait....... Seemingly, historically with time comes extra complexity and obstacles......

4 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

How odd, I don't have a subscription and I just read the whole thing.  all I get is a banner across the bottom suggesting I sign up, but it scrolls out of the way as I scroll down.  

I am familiar with this article having read it previously, I can also access it and do not have a subscription.......

It does mention the sole Aussie QROPS compliant retail super fund that we were referring to earlier in this post...... 

On ‎4‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 05:54, Gbye grey sky said:

Since HMRC changed the rules in 2015 the only way to transfer a UK private pension over to an Australian Super has been by means of a SMSF and you have to be over 55.  I qualify on age but after extensive research would rather not have an SMSF.

In October 2016 a single retail super provider set up a QROPS compliant Super Fund which I will not name on an open forum and I am very tempted to use them to transfer my pension as I am 57 now.  For tax reasons alone it makes no sense to draw my pension from the UK either through an annuity or some drawdown arrangement.

My major concern is trying to satisfy myself that this provider is 100% kosher and there is no risk that I could lose my pension.  My hope is that this is tightly regulated to protect the pension holder but how would I know this?  I guess I am a little suspicious that there is only the one provider that has been HMRC accredited since 2015 and none appear to have followed this lead throughout 2017.

Looking to pool knowledge and experience with any other UK expats in their 50s and 60s holding UK private pensions faced with similar dilemma on what to do.

G`day  Gbye GreySky,

Excellent post, very well described and very well put......

I have just signed up with this forum having just stumbled on your post, I believe I am in a very similar position and completely share your thoughts and comments on this....

Disappointed that this post has stalled and seems to have all but fizzed out,

I also tend to favour the sole Aussie QROPS compliant super fund that you are referring to (very much share your security concerns with this fund too), I also share your thoughts on a QROPS SMSF being unattractive, too much downside or Gotchas as you aptly put it....... 

The only other option seems to be a SIPP of some type or description?.....

Just seems to me that the Aussie QROPS compliant super fund appears to be the most correct vehicle to use to complete the transfer, but how safe and secure are your pension funds with them?...... Also how long do you have to keep your pensions in this fund (Or any other Vehicle) before you can finally complete the transfer to your final Aussie super fund destination???......

Very, Very disappointed and frustrated that after all this time, even for the over 55`s there is still no obvious workable recommended direction or solution available to successfully transfer UK private pensions to Australia...........