Peccavi

It's a pointless complication. Why do we need one title for men and three for women? Men and women are equal, they should both have one title. I'd be happy to have one title for both. If I'm addressing a police constable, male or female, I address them as constable or office. But if we do need to have different titles for men and women, surely it makes sense to have the same number. Anything else would imply that women for some reason need to be addressed differently to men, implying they are 'special', and not in a good way.

 

The situation that bothers me is when I meet someone, say a bank manager, who has a name tag that says Diane Abbott. I want to keep the relationship formal, as I've never met this woman before. But what do I call her? Miss, Mrs Ms? Maybe I should do what the Europeans do and start with miss, and hope she takes it as a compliment. But odds are she'll think I'm being condescending. I could go for Ms, but then how do I know she'll take that well? So I opt for Mrs, and then clean the spittle off my glasses when she hisses Ms at me.

I try not to post too much; (on any site) nowadays, but sometimes I get sucked in by interesting stuff. Was just about to log off when I checked back..

Agree your first line. Men and women should be equal, (they are in my minds eye, but still today on pay scales they are not). I'd be happy to have one title for both also, but it is not the case and won't happen now. I am unsure and really don't care if it was 'feminists' who decided on a non status title for women 30-40 years ago, but I'm glad they did; I embraced it and still agree with it.

I understand that addressing a female formally might present a problem for you. That problem has arisen because women had to have their status defined, unlike men. If we had all been called Mr (you know what I mean),-there would not have been a problem,-and for so very many I have to say, there is no problem.

I always address women as Ms when unsure of their status. I have only once been told 'I am Mrs', and it was without rancour.

I am frequently called Mrs, but have never had the urge to spit and hiss at the addressee.

That last line says more about you than the crop haired tattooed bemetaled amazons to whom you refer....(how's that for categorizing!)

Put windscreen wipers on your specs, and venture forth into the hairy hell of the feminasty!

I'm awa the noo to shave my chin!

I've always thought miss should go the way of master and we just have Mr and Mrs. Ms is just a silly distraction, which is what another word for gay marriage would be. If you feel the need to differentiate, then why not call it what it is, gay marriage?

I support the feminist movement but it's not my fault if they go off on a pointless tangent. I mean seriously, what does ms get them? And how are you meant to address a woman you don't know? Not all feminists have it tattooed on their forehead. It's just an invention to confuse. As would be another term for gay marriage. You meet a work colleague. You chat. You find out about each other. You ask if they are married. No, they say, I'm garried, or larried. Great. Didn't know you were gay. Now I do. Why is there this compulsion to know if people are gay? I don't meet someone and say hi, I'm jez and I'm hetro. just in case you were wondering.

I have never thought of myself as a silly distraction, but as I get older I think it might be better than nothing..

My 'pointless tangent' is thus because that is how you see it. I have managed quite well on the intelligence quotient, managing a military then law career. I don't do 'pointless tangents', I managed to choose a title that does not define me in any way (you of course will disagree with that), whilst steering clear of burning my bra; an increasingly vital tool as one gets older. (It avoids the pain of having the mammys bang on the knees). I have nothing tattooed on my forehead, but once I have my 80th birthday, I intend to get a tattoo on my chest that says: 'this is where they used to be'.

You just say hello to a woman you don't know.Nothing confusing about it.

Italics: Why indeed? Why is there this compulsion to know if one is a Mrs or a Miss? A Mr is a Mr; it isn't an issue. I don't meet someone and say Hi, I'm a Miss or a Mrs?

Just in case you were wondering.

___________________

Tbh Newjez, I really am surprised that you can see one and not the other. You argue strongly that gay people should not have to justify their sexuality. Exactly right-I agree. Yet you do not see that using a title that does not define female status in the same way. Instead categorising those who choose to do this as silly and pointless.

You seem to see the choice of Ms as something that defines a feminist. So you defend the one and dismiss the other.

Defend the right to not categorize. For both.

Interesting. I choose Ms, feminist or not. I have neither my husband nor my fathers name but concede I can do ugger ball about being female or woman. it irks a tad, but life is too short to sweat it.

'Marriage' for me is a man/woman thing,-but I approach that from a pov of see a marriage contract as archaic nonsense. I'm damned if I can figure why such is so important, but there you go..

My closest friend in Oz never 'came out', and why not? I never 'came out' as hetero. He would have disagreed with my view, but as I said it has more to do with why we pursue this Christian (or Muslim or Martian) ideal.

Each to his/her own. (View, that is).

This is a film I am not going to miss.

I certainly don't remember any significant protests.

 

There are always a few conscientious objectors to any war like GGS but certainly not the general view at the time.

My Father was not by any means a conscientious objector!! It might be the case for many--- ("always a few" - I like your sense of humour....), ---but I think the common proletariat is ever more aware (as they are the cannon fodder), of what constitutes a threat to global freedoms (WW1-11) where even men little more than boys rushed to join up; -and self interest invasions.

In London.

 

My point was that mass protests does not signify a majority. Quite the opposite in fact as the majority do not need to protest.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I take your point, but don't think that is set. it might be the case, but I think in some instances, it is not. It does not matter if every man and his dog turned out to demonstrate; it depends totally on how it is reported by the press which today does not report news, but gives opinion.

Incidents of any kind are played up by one rag, and down by another.

Yes you were right, but in a minority, why do you think that is?

(This is what confused me. Thanks for clarifying though).

I don't think for a nanosecond that the anti Iraq war group were in minority. This issue galvanized Adders. I suppose the powerlessness of the mass of protesters could make them feel like a minority? For me it was just that: powerlessness.

Before he died my Father was one of the retired senior officers who co-signatoried a letter to that congenital idiot. But war- at all costs -had already been decided. Others paid the price.

Yes you were right, but in a minority, why do you think that is?

In a minority? (I think I might be misunderstanding you...?)

I have never seen before or since the volume of people who demonstrated to stop the invasion. I was resident in 'sleepy' Adelaide at the time. The City atmosphere was electric. Each State had much the same.

The UK also demonstrated forcefully against this illegal invasion.

In a minority? Seriously?

WW1 WW11 did not incur any protest. People knew this engagement was wrong.

" I am (note that: "I"), am with you, whatever" (Blair to Bush). That 'whatever' caused 179 families misery and heartbreak that as endured to date.

Many many thousands of Iraqi women, children,....innocents; died.

Very senior former military officers wrote to the Blair Government pleading with them to stop. They/he ignored them. That approach was unprecedented.

It was this spurious and deceptive invasion that has curbed the act of assisting those who are in real and desperate need of assistance today. I mean Syria.

All because this vile creature lay down with the dogs of war offering up his own countrymen to do his dirty work, ill equipped and ultimately reviled by the Iraqi's.

I hope I did misunderstand you.

However, I hope now that these families go after Blair legally. He has it coming.

Why? the incidents you mention are such a tiny tiny minority that I and most people have not even heard of them, a reply is not worth a mention as most people know that you always get a couple of nutters everywhere.

But you did reply Pbum and I appreciate it. I mean that.

There have been many incidents-far more than I have listed, and that is within days. It will get worse, but I hope it does not.

Let's wait and see..

They were referred to early yesterday? as England playing against 'lowly' Iceland.

That's why I'm damn pleased for them.

It starts. Waste no time, even a T-shirt has been printed up with 'We Won! Poles go home'.

A broadcaster is called 'a Paki'/ a Polish father and son have been beaten up/ racist graffiti has been sprayed on a Polish community centre/ a man goes around showing his passport/ my ugly money has been donated. Oh yes! Boris is calling for calm, Nigel has a big grin on his face/ he has accused Boris of softening his stance; probably because Boris has called for calm.

This is the ugly face of it. So many 'are not involved'; but so many voted with this issue unspoken, -including a couple of my friends. I'm surprised with my cultural background that they tolerate me. Possibly because I have an acceptable skin colour....

Why, when this IS going on is this post going to irritate some of you?

Anyone who has read Zack's posts would know that at any given time in Zack's meandering/rambling, he could well have produced that programme to suit his own purpose/preference at that time................UK is crap.............Oz is crap and ad finitum

Zack for the naughty corner.

I made the point that I was commenting on the doco. It was disingenuous BS.

Edit:.....play the ball not the man..........

Before I returned, returnees and residents warned me that Boots was now very expensive, and Sparks sold expensive rubbish. Their clothing (made offshore?), certainly is. I found taupe slacks for £45 and they were tatty. I found a new-new! donated pair in Heart Foundation for 5 squids. Far superior in quality.

The game now is minimum outlay (quality), maximum return (profit). I'm not saying what undies I wear, but they are based on the fact that my alluring siren days (if they ever existed) are well and truly over. (And I wish I had kept my military 'mummy don't trust me' undies for the UK Winter. They were bullet proof!).

The initial falls were in line with expectations.

 

I also predicted Cameron's resignation and a 2nd Scottish referendum. You may recall that the markets reacted unfavourably when they feared a break up of the union in 2014 so prepare for that circus to roll in to town again.

 

This is just the start. Many people I know realise that their jobs are now at risk over the coming months.

 

There is though a part of me that is pleased with the outcome as if Remain had won Brexiters would always have said that Britain would have benefitted if they had the guts to vote Leave. Over the coming months and years we will witness the fallacy of that and will wait to see who is next in line for the blame.

I intend to cash in on this; -(albeit at the expense of some poor sod/s): I've bet £5 each (four times today with my Brexiters) that there will be a dramatic increase in intolerance toward those we see as not 'British'. Just like the Australian FIFO, I suspect that 'this is our country not yours' or variations thereof, will grow.

I voted Remain, but far from being a bad loser, I see this-much as it makes me uneasy, -as a win for the 'working class' guy and guyess. They are the ones that get no voice. Well they damn well have one now, and on that one issue I'm pleased.

Voting was split:

More affluent areas: Remain.

Working class areas: Leave.

Working class areas with higher 'new British' citizens (will that do?): Remain.

CBD: Remain.

Security/citizenship issues (eg. Gibraltar 96%!/n-Ireland/Scotland): Remain.

It is unfortunate that small businesses etc who have suffered by EU membership became a voice at the back of the crowd; the issue was migrants. Migrants. Migrants.

...........and we now face the delightful points system of jolly ol' Oz.

I hated aligning myself with the likes of Cameron/ that little scamp Blair/...being told by Obama what to do/ Mark Carney (bank of England) preaching hellfire and brimstone/....and knowing that dear Margaret would approve (though it is unlikely that she would have tolerated 'working class' people having any voice at all).

I loathed being shoulder to shoulder with them, but the alternative-on one issue only, is worrying.

The migrant population of the UK, and those who have been here for many years; many born here, are about to become the 'whipping boys'. They will suffer. I get 20 quid.

I'm certain of the first, which secures the second, though I will be more than happy to have to payout after this first year (our agreed time limit).

I applaud the British working class, but I tell yer'; I'm uneasy; very uneasy.

That's why it's the ideal book for someone 60+, thinking of a return to the UK. They're likely to have the same rosy view of the Britain they left, and likely to have the same reaction to the changes that Bryson comments on.

I meet that age criteria....and then some. I think that someone older has less illusions not more.

It has been anything but easy since I've been back (on a personal level), but far from regretting it, I don't even think about it.

I came home. Simple as that. I admit I came back for places not people, and both have not disappointed; in a pragmatical sense...

I bought Brysons 'Notes from a Small Island' years ago in Australia; and loved it. When I read it recently again; it irritated me, in part because I felt that Bryson had a overly rosy view of the UK (even back then).

Janet Street Porter apparently criticized Bryson for 'Dribbling' because he was not so flattering about Britain this time!

I might enjoy that book because perhaps he's now a bit more realistic, but I won't buy it because though he is a massive anglophile I find him a tad condescending.

(It's a two way street isn't it? People going out to Australia have an overly rosy view. I can't really blame them when they are seeking 'something better', but views like that inevitably lead to disappointment and distress when things don't match up to expectations).

........anyway now we will have Utopia! We are pulling out of the EU. All will now return to a warm glow of peace love and happiness. Won't it......?

I was looking at a tape i had a while ago. Of poms being interviewed by Peter Fitzsimmons .A Anti Pom and Republican Aussie. You want to see it. if you want to get a distorted view of the UK. Fitzsimmons is interviewing this couple that live in Qld.And Moving Back To the Uk.And he wants to Know Why. First He Shows Two of Qld Most Beautiful Beaches.Then Compares them,with Two deserted Beaches in the UK.In winter, with Snow on the Pepples.Then asks the Couple Why would u want to Leave Qld for that? Then He Shows a Beautiful tree lined street in one of the best streets in Brisbane,Beautiful detached Houses,manicured lawn etc.Then he shows a Terraced Street in the Uk with Scrap Cars,Kids Jumping Around in them and graffiti everywhere.A bit of land at the end of the street like a bomb site.Then Asks the Couple and you want to move back to the uk to that.These Comparisons go on for Half and hour,of all the best about Qld and all the worst about the UK. And this is what most Aussie's think the UK is Like?Even our Long time Aussie friends Said To Me,You have no lovely open spaces,Or Beaches In England Have You? It's all Terraced Houses and Concrete.She didn't even believe The TV Show from the UK. Move to the Country,was real.Australia is so overrated.and the Uk so underrated I come From A Beautiful part.1 hour from The Lake District.There's nothing to compare,in Queensland.Even My Local Pub,There's no pubs in Australia to compare.or to the Character of the people.The Want to be Aussies have a different view.Just been reading a blog on hear by a couple of silly poms,that have just got their Aussie citizenship.They say they Feel So Different Now,And So Australian ??I've been hear 40 years,and i was told when i arrived,there's always a line drawn in the sand between Aussies and Poms.And it's so true.

I returned 2½ years ago. I remember this vividly. It was the most distorted biased piece of cr.p I have seen on a so called documentary. Almost childish in the way it was done.

(My comment is about the doco -not the good/bad of either country).

Make your choice for your own reasons as I did. This nonsense was just propagandist tripe.

Corbyn will return the Labour Party to a Labour Party. Deal with it.

You don't like it, then he loses an election and the leader is changed to a conservative wannabe, making it much easier to vote for the real McCoy and not a cheap plastic 'Labour' substitute conservatives like Blair and his ilk.

.....so the Conservatives can't lose. Dinna fret yersel.

(To eliminate any doubt-I do back Corbyn to the bl..dy hilt).

One off post.

I haven't asked you to explain anything,i simply replied to Blobby(not you),that everyone "doesn't" think aus will be "truly amazing",to use his words,you chose to reply to me,and said "thats how i felt",if thats the case then yes i think its naive.

 

I dont really care why others come back if im honest,it makes no difference at all to me,i never use others as a barometer of how i will feel about aus,and dont understand why some people do tbh.

 

I also dont need everyone to report in glowinmg terms about aus,again,that might not be my reality,we'll see?

 

I think there's some truly amazing "things" in aus,see Melza's thread about the electric storm,see the stromatolites,great barrier reef,even the big starry skies,but "in general",i would never expect my life over there to be truly amazing,i'll most likely still have a trowel in my hand in the baking hot summer sun,so theres the first reality check

I dont watch WDU or any of that stuff,and have never called it living the dream,because i dont expect it to be a dream

I dont know what "misunderstanding" you talk of tbh,i just know that anyone thinking it will be truly amazing is setting themselves up for a fall

..........I responded to posts as people do on forums. Then you asked me a question and I answered it.

I may not have answered it as you wanted, but I answered you.

This again has now gone to addressing the poster rather than the post.

:nah: (I'm really starting to like these emoticons. Colours rather than meanings)

It is exactly as you say. Good things do happen! I am very pleased for this couple.

:jimlad: (I am trying out different emoticons because they come in lovely colours)

Not sure what you mean Peccavi,you thought aus was going to be something "truly amazing"?

Well if that "is" what you mean then i think thats naive,maybe im just more cynical,comes from where im from i guess,but i dont expect aus to be any kind of utopia

What I mean is this Pablo: Naivety is referred to with regard to another posters view of 'totally unrealistic expectations' of Australia.

I am saying that I am not naive, and did not have any unrealistic expectations of Australia, but my perceptions are similar to Blobby's.

There is no agenda, nothing deep, no double meaning OK?

I don't feel any further need to explain what my perceptions were; why I came etc. If someone wants to do that it's fine. It's a choice. And there IS choice here n'est pas?..

I have said previously that this is not a tribunal, I have no intention of meeting the requirements of others here.

What it is -is 'Moving Back to the UK'. If it were 'Moving Back to the UK but Don't Explain Why' then that would be different.

But it isn't.

I trust that will clear up any misunderstandings?.........:wink:

Righto :mask:

 

I've been and right clickety clicked like a mad thing and lopped a heap of posts off this thread.

 

Stop the bickering, discuss the topic not the people discussing the topic. And stop all the other stuff too while you are about it, you are flogging the old proverbial and its gotten very old :wacko:

 

Cheers and warm fuzzy internet hugs :hug:

 

snifter

 

PS - Some of the banter was lovely but when other posts were lopped, they lost context so alas had to go into the internet void of deleted posts *sniff*

Thank-you. I mean that. Thank-you.

No not really. We had totally unrealistic expectations of Australia.

 

We also underestimated the real feeling of living somewhere where you don't feel you belong. I got tired of always treading on egg shells around Aussies and permanently being obligated to tell them what a truly wonderful country they have and how honoured I am to live there.

Unfortunately that Blobby is what dropped you right in it! Oh yes mustn't forget....:wink:

This is a wonderful posts and eloquently describes what I have been trying to say for years.

 

Australia is not so bad but it's exhausting moving somewhere where you don't feel permitted to be honest and say what you think about a country. Living in Australia is a bit like popping round your Grandma's house and holding in a fart all afternoon.

Try holding one for 37......36 years and 7 months. Eloquently put.....:wink: I know exactly what you mean.

I haven't left the uk,to do that i need the house to sell,no other way,simple as that

No,dont judge everyone as naive as yourself,i dont think for one minute aus is utopia,nor is it the most financially sensible thing for me to do,here i'll probably be mortgage free before long,in aus i'll be starting on the bottom rung due to house prices,thats the reality

 

No,i dont think aus is truly amazing,some people just get itchy feet,need a change or adventure,despite knowing it could be a risky financial strategy,"sensible" reasons dont always matter the most,sometimes people just say ahhhh "#### it'lets try it anyway",know what i mean?

Stop judging others reasons for wanting to try aus against your own,you expected too much,i dont,im not a dreamer

I am not naive, and I hold much the same view.

This overly-sensitive Australian thing is really over-played IMHO. Try putting the shoe on the other foot: Be openly critical of the UK, in the UK, but with a foreign accent. About as welcome as that fart in your Grandmothers house. Many of you seem to think that because you complain like a good un in the UK, and hear it all around you, that the whole country is a sea of robust self-reflection, open to all opinions. That only works if your accent blends in. As someone who had an Australian accent in the UK, I wouldn't have dreamt of wandering around pointing out what I perceived to be flaws. A few may have escaped out of frustration but I never expected my hand shook and appreciation for my input.

 

It's like criticisms of your own family. Only welcome from those who belong. This is pretty much true no matter where you're from. Same with countries.

This conundrum is almost on a par with the true meaning of life isn't it?!!.....:wink:

It will go on and on.

Given that this section is 'returning to the UK' and not 'my experience in the UK', I think people should be allowed to explain why they are returning to the UK, fffing and blindin' aside.

That is not liked; it is not required; it is constantly criticized. And hopefully that will not put people off giving their reasons for return.

A country is just a country.I'd like to know how people's expectations of a place manage to get so distorted from the reality?TV shows?Migration agents?Friends or family already over there?Your own "dream"(hate that word lol)?Not having a go Blobby,I'm just curious from you and other posters,why the dream did'nt match the reality?What did you think it would be like?

They do. It is all very well to refer to naivety, but the only naivety at play is not acknowledging how manipulative these messages are when they incessantly go on for years.

Take that on board, plus the discouragement of having any negative view of Australia as evidenced in so many posts,-and the die is cast.

Nice on Peccavi!Reminded me of a story one of my Adelaide mates told me recently.She was driving up around the Chain of Ponds road (I expect you might know this road Peccavi?)Anyway to anyone who does'nt its a nice drive up through the hills,but has alot of quite bad bends in the road.Anyway....she hit some spilt diesal on the road,skidded badly and ended up rolling her car.The car came to a standstill,so there she is,upside down in her vehicle,on the corner of an S bend of the road,not knowing if something was gonna come round the corner and hit her,or whether her car was about to explode,and not knowing whether she had any serious injuries.Usually a quiet road,she decided to ring herself an ambulance and the police,which she did.She then rang her dropkick of a bf,explained to him what happened?She started crying (Probably shock setting in)and her bf then said "Harden up Princess":arghh:So no Jack13 whatever your name is,please don't tell people to "Man up"Sounds very uncaring,not to mention immature!

...................I hope you meant her ex-boyfriend......

First of all you have no need to apologise. That I think is an issue for you; you feel guilty!

If you are of age, then look to what YOU want. Not either parent.

"This above all to thine own self be true" is not about selfishness.

If you spend your time trying to please others you will be increasingly unhappy in yourself.

I can't believe any caring parent would want that.

I'm not saying it will be easy. I'm saying that you must concentrate on what you want for you. Not what others expect from you.

(The academic stuff is something others can perhaps answer!).

Sounds like you are being ripped off then

Yes, and I'm one of many. What they don't really want is people to do is 'compare notes' about this. They are getting away with it because each time it is one hapless individual up against them.

It's a bit of a loophole. It needs to be regulated far more.

If you import personal possessions to Australia there s an exemption from many charges, import duties and GST. I am sure there is something similar in the UK. If you did not complete the relevant paperwork then the company has to do all of the paperwork. I sent 2 removal boxes from the UK to Oz, door to door for £100

Lucky you.

I completed the relevant paperwork (as I did with the household goods).

This was from Australia to the UK.