oidara

I can't seem to find a pet insurance company in Oz that will insure our dog whilst she's in quarantine. Does anyone know of a company that does? Or perhaps it's just not necessary?Also, what have you guys done about insurance for the journey? I've found a company that offers this for about 40 GBP but I wonder if it's just a waste of money.

Yes, I read that too. Those poor business and first class passengers! ;-)

This is what they said when I emailed them: "You will certainly be able to take an FAA approved restraint system like 'AmSafe Aviation CARES' with you on-board Singapore Airlines, as we do not provide harness on board. However, please note due to the make of the harness you will be seated in the last row, as it has to be attached around the seat." I guess they probably mean the last row in each section, but I didn't pursue it further so I don't know for sure.

Hi there, Yes, we've looked at the CARES harness too for our 3 year old (our baby is too small for it). We decided against it though as Singapore Airlines say you have to be in the last row to use it. You might want to double check with your airline and make sure you can use it in your allocated seats. Good luck!

It's entirely a safety thing. There are lap children who have been badly injured or even killed when it could be argued they would have been okay in a car seat. There's a compelling thread on another forum with 2 people debating whether it's necessary. A guy called Shawn says he can't see the point and it's a calculated risk, and he gets this rather emotional (but quite well put, I think) response: I hate to say it Shawn, you can take a calculated risk with your baby, for mine I'll pass. Things happen all the time, you just don't hear about them. Did you know the US Airways crash that went down in the Hudson river narrowly escaped one fatality. It was the life of a lap baby. The mother couldn't hold him, and thankfully there was a man next to her that could. That was luck. There is a United flight attendant that has retired and committed her entire life to lobbying for this cause. She was on an aircraft that went down in '89. United was running special fares for families that month, and as a result a majority of the 282 passengers on board were kids. 112 died, and sadly, the lap babies never stood a chance. Those are sensationalized cases. Turbulence happens every day. You ask any flight attendant you meet how many of their coworkers they know who have sustained crippling injuries because they were unrestrained in the cabin when turbulence hit. If it isn't deeply personal to them, they know more than a few that it is, I promise. Do you want that to be your baby? The FAA requires that you take better care of your bag than your kid, what's wrong with that? Aborted take offs and hard landings happen every day, and sometimes they are horribly violent. They aren't advertised. Calculated risk and child safety really ought not be used in the same sentence. If that's what we've stooped to in this country it makes me very sad. If you can't afford your child's seat, then you can't afford to go. If it's important, if they are important, then make it a priority. How would you feel if you walked on an aircraft and you were shown to your seat, but their was no seat belt? Would you sit down and not say anything, or would you get up and demand a belt? Just because they have no voice, don't deny that for your child.

We cosleep too, hence why I'm not too fussed about the bassinet as I doubt he'd stay in it. I also doubt he'd stay in his car seat long for the same reason, as he's used to always being on us. I am a worrier about safety, though, so articles like the one I linked to are hard to ignore. Totally agree about it being a hassle though. No idea how we'd manage to get us all on board!

Hi, We're travelling with 2 other small kids so it's going to be a bit manic! They definitely allow car seats on board and this is what the FAA in the US are now recommending for safety reasons. They say children under 20lb should be in rear-facing car seats and children from 20lb to 40lb should be in forward-facing seats or restraints like the CARES harness. Singapore Airlines can't guarantee a bassinet where all 5 of us can sit together so we are not bothering with that. We have a Didymos sling so we were thinking he will be in that most of the time, but that won't help safety wise for take off, landing, etc - they don't even allow use of a sling at those times as the view is that it's safer if the baby is thrown clear of your arms rather than crushed by your body. For safety's sake, it's supposed to be better to keep them in a car seat at all times, but I know realistically that it will be hard not to pick him up and breastfeed if he's crying at take off and landing, so perhaps it's a big expense for nothing.

It's only the safety aspect that bothers me. We have enough luggage allowance (there are 5 of us!) and enough space. I have checked with Singapore Airlines and they can't guarantee us a bassinet where we can all sit together so we've decided not to bother with that. I know we can't use the car seat when we get to Oz, but I am wondering if we need to take it to keep him safe during the flight. See articles such as these: http://www.thecarseatlady.com/airplanes/airplanes.html It discusses how lap children are put at risk by not being properly strapped in. I think it's a bit unrealistic as I know he'll never stay in his seat for the whole flight, so it won't help with unexpected turbulence. But he would ideally be strapped on for take off, landing, severe turbulence and any potential emergency. The lap belts that stretch around parent and child don't cut it as you would crush your child in the event of an aborted take off, for example. I can't decide if it's a real risk or not. The extra cost is 800GBP which of course you'd pay a hundred times over if you thought it would prevent injury or worse. But I wonder if it's just a pointless expense for a seat that he'll probably spend only about 30 minutes sitting in!

Hi everyone, Those of you that have children under 2, what did you decide to do about booking a seat for your infant on the flight? I am not worried about the comfort aspect as we tend to have our babies on us in slings or in our arms all day anyway, so it's just the safety issue that bothers me. Do we need a car seat for take off, landing, bad turbulence and emergencies? Realistically, our baby would spend most of the flight in our arms even if we did take his car seat, but at least we'd have him strapped in at those times. I can't decide if it's worthwhile or not. If he is screaming during take off and landing, I may need to breastfeed him anyway so I am wondering if it's just a big expense for nothing.

It's not about whether we integrate or not. To be honest, I couldn't care two hoots about coming back to the UK as I haven't lived here for more than 10 years now. However, we do feel the need to see our parents that often and that won't change no matter how Ozzie we become.

Hi folks, We intend to come back to the UK every 18 months or so for a visit (mad, I know, but this is the plan). I read on here about how flights originating in Oz are much more expensive than flights originating in the UK, so I looked into it and it's certainly true! A flight from the UK would cost us almost 4000 GBP return (there are 5 of us) as compared to almost 8000 GBP return from Oz. This is where I had a light bulb moment - it would be cheaper to come back every 12 months (I think this is the max ticket validity) and change our one-way ticket to Oz into a return instead. In other words, it's cheaper to be out of sync and to always have a flight saved from Oz to the UK, then booking a new one from the UK to get back home to Oz....I hope I have expressed this clearly enough....it's driving me bonkers trying to get my head around it! The question is - what have I missed? It seems too good to be true. Do the airlines mind that your flights originate not in your country of residence? Any other downside? Thanks!

Thanks for all of the info, snifter!

Thanks. That's disappointing. So that means 12kg is the RF limit, right? I read somewhere that you go by height not weight on some seat models and that you can therefore RF for longer if you choose your seat wisely. Can anyone recommend a seat that allows RF for as long as possible?

Hi guys, Still struggling with this car seat issue, especially for our middle child who is only 2 years 3 months. On the following thread, someone mentions RF seats in NZ that RF to 18kg: http://www.huggies.com.au/forum/topic/2643046-Rear-Facing-Car-Seats-for-older-kids/ Quote: "The websites I am going to link you to are NZ ones, but the seats conform to Aussie standards so you can have a look and see if you can get them in OZ or can import them from NZ. They rear face to 18kg and about 100cm tall and the Evenflo harnesses to 29.5kg FF. EvenfloSymphony65e3Milo Safety 1st Complete Air LX" Does anyone know if it's true that seats legal in NZ are also legal in Australia? I have been trying to verify this to no avail so far.

Thanks again, snifter. I will try to look into that 3 month rule. As for where to draw the line on abiding by rules, just because I am thinking of using my own car seat doesn't mean I intend to go to Oz and commit crimes left, right and centre! It was the recommendation in the UK to turn kids FF at 12 months until not long ago, and now the age has been changed to 2. Guidelines on this change as countries review safety studies and car seat manufacturers step up and provide seats to meet new demands. Surely it's not difficult to understand that it's hard to swallow the idea of putting my kids in seats that I - personally, after lots of research - have concluded are not as safe? As snifter says, perhaps we can just keep this thread limited to a discussion of the facts rather than a debate on who chooses what seat. We are all just trying to do what's best for our kids.

Thanks, snifter, for your helpful response. Thanks to you too, Davo. This is exactly what I'm worried about. I appreciate both of your constructive comments.

It's not nonsense to say that I can't control whether I am in an accident or not. If people could control that, there wouldn't be accidents at all. Yes, measures can be taken to avoid accidents, of course they can. But - in the event of being in an accident that can't be avoided - I want to know I've done all I can to keep my kids safe. There's really no need to be so aggressive.

It's very difficult to just "bite it" when it's my kids' safety at stake. Although you may think it's excessive keeping them RF til age 4 and beyond, the safety stats from Scandinavia speak volumes and it's not something I would like to compromise on given any choice. Obviously the best way to keep them safe is not to crash. Unfortunately that's not something in my control, but the seats I choose is.

Thanks, snifter. That's all very helpful. I'm really torn now about what to do. We are planning a 6 month trip out to Oz next spring and had thought we would take our seats with us as they are safer. Not sure what to do now because of the insurance issue you mentioned. The most important thing to me is obviously the safety of my kids, so I guess it boils down to looking at safety stats for the Ozzie top tether seats compared to ERF seats beyond age 2.

The lack of extended rear-facing really bothers me. We still live in Europe and we bought seats especially from Sweden that allow rear-facing to 25kg. My daughter just turned 4 and we have no plans to turn her FF for at least another year. We also have a 2 year old and a baby on the way, and we plan to keep them RF for as long as possible too. The thought of turning them FF at 6 or 12 months makes me shudder! Just how much trouble would we be in if we continued to use our RF seats in Oz? And any ideas how long it will be before RF is possible to 18kg or more? ******* ETA by snifter (forum mod) - This is a split thread taken from the Car seat thread which can be found here http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/transport-shipping/123214-car-seats-australia-what-you-need-know.html All info regarding car seats in Australia can be found there, including ERF info. ERF discussion from that thread is now here however. Cheers snifter

Thanks for your replies, both of you! It's a tricky one. I want what's best for the dog and sometimes I think that would be giving her up now, before our recce tour. She'll have to suffer 6 months apart from us and then the whole flight/quarrantine thing and upheaval of moving to a new country. But the risk is that we decide after the recce that we won't move to Oz after all, and then we've given up our dog for nothing! This emigrating idea seems to be one dilemma after another at the moment.

Thanks for the advice. Very helpful. Do you know what happens if a foster carer can't find suitable new owners? Do they hand onto the dog themselves?

Thanks for your reply. I agree that 6 months is a big ask. The problem is that we can't afford to make this trip twice so we need to be out there long enough to be sure of what we're doing. We are expecting opposition from my husband's family and don't want to umm and aah over our decision. We've been living in Europe for 7 years and have spent the last 4 constantly debating where we should be, so we feel the need for decisive action! What you said about how people caring for a dog for that long might end up wanting to keep it wouldn't necessarily be a problem. I'm already unsure about whether it would be wise to take her with us if we did emigrate as I don't know how she'd tolerate the journey and quarrantine. If the kindest thing would be to leave her behind, then we would do it. And if the kindest thing would be to rehome her now before we even made our decision, then I guess we would consider that too. Tough as we may come back from our trip having decided not to emigrate and having given up our dog for nothing, but I wouldn't say it's out of the question. If we were looking to rehome at the end of the 6 months, would you know anywhere useful?

Me again! I have found a few places, but they charge 20-25GBP per day!! We can't really afford this much, so if anyone has any tips of how to find something cheaper, I'm all ears. Thanks.

Hi folks, My husband and I are thinking of going out to Australia for 6 months next year to look around and decide whether to emigrate or not. We have a 5-year-old Labrador cross and we're trying to figure out what to do with her while we're away. We have no family who can take care of her and we don't like the thought of putting her in kennels for that long. We also don't have a home in the UK (we live in Slovenia) so in-home pet-sitting isn't an option. Does anybody know of a place she could stay where she could be part of a family? It doesn't matter whereabouts in the UK, we can take her anywhere. Many thanks!