jimmyay1

I always love to visit the uk, am fortunate that my relatives live in a beautiful area, national park etc  so it’s always gorgeous to enjoy the countryside etc.

i feel like the uk has changed a bit over the last few years but I guess Aus has too.  On my last visit which was very brief (4 days - on our way to Europe to see other relatives lol) it was great to catch up with folk but something felt a bit off compared with previous years. Londoners looked particularly joyless and stressed compared to every day people in Melbourne. 

But I can feel at home in both places. 

I took a pay cut to move to Aus.

…and even now I still get only paid about the same as I did when  I left the uk 12 years ago 

but yes corporate roles don’t pay as well generally here nor as plentiful.

but….at least i work my 37 hours and that’s it, I don’t work well into the evenings, I don’t work weekends, I don’t need to be constantly available whilst on holiday, don’t have toxic bosses  etc etc - all of which was the case at various times when I worked in london.

luckily my financial situation is such that I don’t need to chase max dollars  to maintain a good lifestyle ; no kids, homes owned outright, no mortgages or other debts, good savings and super and have always lived well below my means.  
 

I don’t engage in keep up with the Jones -  I have nothing to prove. 

horses for courses innit! 

And most Brits living overseas  only  need to pay class 2 NI contributions which is about GBP170 a year - its an amazing deal - but likely not to last forever.

1 hour ago, Ken said:

Yes, Christmas lights at 5pm against a dark UK sky as you head home from work are completely different (and far more uplifting) to those in Australia where it's going to remain bright and sunny for hours.

Personally i find the fact that it is going to be bright and sunny for hours uplifting in itself, and i now associate that with Christmas (although i know plenty of people do struggle with it).

What i also love about an Aussie Christmas is that everyone is looking forward to summer as well as Christmas, and the long holiday period that follows. 

In the UK, it's all about creating a pre Christmas "atmosphere" by stuffing your face for a month, and cheering yourself up with twinkly lights, whilst cold rain and darkness descends.........and then you are dumped on the frozen shores of 2nd of January feeling bloated, hungover and depressed. 

Meanwhile in Australia, Christmas and New Year are the start of summer, bright sun, beaches, family get togethers at wineries or in the pool and a time for road trips, adventure, and holidays, and the tennis. 

I do also think they could make more of an effort here in terms of public celebrations. 

Our local Council (inner Melbourne) didnt put a single street decoration up last Christmas.  You would hardly have known it was happening in terms of public displays.    

I have done a couple of Christmasses  back in the UK since i emigrated to Aus.

Whilst i enjoyed going back for it, I did get a sense that over there these days 25 December is the end rather than the start of the season, that people enjoy the weeks of December build up more, rather than what comes after the 25th, as seems to be the case in Aus.

i also could not wait to come home on 1 Jan, as the bleakness of the UK in January descended! 

19 hours ago, hop said:

Immediately. Australia is soulless and isolated. I miss good manners (no one says "please" in Australia), I dislike being called "mate" constantly. I miss the mountains, lakes, forests and all the amazing scenery in the UK. There's no scenery in Australia, just sand and bushes. I miss British accents, British TV (Australian TV is unwatchable), British supermarkets which are light years ahead in quality and choice. I miss the UK's temperate maritime climate. It's too hot to do anything outdoors in Australia.

I miss Christmas in the UK. Christmas has no atmosphere in Australia. Although I'm not terribly religious I miss churches and village greens and British pubs and houses with character. In Australia I've been harrassed by people in the streets, many of them I suspect were on drugs and I was attacked once. The police didn't care. They laughed when I reported an item was stolen from the rental. Never had a problem in the UK in over 50 years with regards to crime.

I miss how friendly and reliable people are in the UK. When selling items on Facebook everyone bar one person turned up on time. Wonderful experience. In Australia I had a terrible experience selling items. 

I miss etiquette. People walk around barefoot in shops which is incredibly rude. Do that in a supermarket in the UK and you would be asked to put on shoes and rightly so. I was horrified to find the bathroom had no ventilation, no extractor fan or even a window and to make matters worse there were sockets. So unless you have the door open (so no privacy) the room will fill with condensation so very dangerous.

I miss professionalism we have in the UK. Train drivers blasting out loud music from their cabs is something I never heard on UK trains. Estate agents showing me around a flat that was a complete mess. He blamed the tenant but it should be the responsibility of the estate agent to ensure rentals are tidy before allowing anyone to look around. 

It's really to fixate on all that ails you isnt it?   Many of these complaints are little niggles that would be neither here nor there if you fundamentally weren't unhappy (which i don't doubt you are, and should probably take a break in the uk).   But a quick examination of most of the points would make you realise they are very contextual. 

Your complaints are: 

Australia is soulless

Australia is isolated

Australians have bad manners 

Australians use different language to address you to what you deem appropriate

Australia has no scenery (e.g mountains lakes and forests).  just sand and bushes

Australians harrass you in the street, are on drugs and you are a victim of crime

Australians have no etiquette

Australians are unreliable

Australians wear inappropriate clothing, and no one admonishes them for this

Australia has no electrical safety standards in bathrooms

Christmas in Australia has no atmosphere

Australians mock your misfortune

Australian train drivers are unprofessional

Australian estate agents are unprofessional (ok   - i think we can grant you this one) 

As anyone can see from the list above, taken apart, these are all massive generalisations and you have garnered a set of "beliefs" about "Australia" and "Australians" which prevent you seeing things with a sense of  perspective and which serve to further isolate you. 

I know from experience, it is easy to become depressed and then every little thing annoys you.  You clearly feel very trapped.  When you feel this way, you blame everything and anything that upsets you. 

I seriously suggest taking action to either take a good long holiday in the Uk - it may fix some of this - or to start thinking about moving back or take steps to change perspective. 

From your post it sounds like you are 50+.  Have you been in Australia a long time?  Do you get back to the Uk often?  Have you got a family or friend support network here?  If you really dislike where you live, have you considered another part of the country? 

I see your posts as a rant to get things off your chest which is totally fine and we can all smile at one or two of the reasons you give and recognise some of them. But when they become dominating, you need to do something about this.  

38 minutes ago, hop said:

Immediately. Australia is soulless and isolated. I miss good manners (no one says "please" in Australia), I dislike being called "mate" constantly. I miss the mountains, lakes, forests and all the amazing scenery in the UK. There's no scenery in Australia, just sand and bushes. I miss British accents, British TV (Australian TV is unwatchable), British supermarkets which are light years ahead in quality and choice. I miss the UK's temperate maritime climate. It's too hot to do anything outdoors in Australia.

I miss Christmas in the UK. Christmas has no atmosphere in Australia. Although I'm not terribly religious I miss churches and village greens and British pubs and houses with character. In Australia I've been harrassed by people in the streets, many of them I suspect were on drugs and I was attacked once. The police didn't care. They laughed when I reported an item was stolen from the rental. Never had a problem in the UK in over 50 years with regards to crime.

I miss how friendly and reliable people are in the UK. When selling items on Facebook everyone bar one person turned up on time. Wonderful experience. In Australia I had a terrible experience selling items. 

I miss etiquette. People walk around barefoot in shops which is incredibly rude. Do that in a supermarket in the UK and you would be asked to put on shoes and rightly so. I was horrified to find the bathroom had no ventilation, no extractor fan or even a window and to make matters worse there were sockets. So unless you have the door open (so no privacy) the room will fill with condensation so very dangerous.

I miss professionalism we have in the UK. Train drivers blasting out loud music from their cabs is something I never heard on UK trains. Estate agents showing me around a flat that was a complete mess. He blamed the tenant but it should be the responsibility of the estate agent to ensure rentals are tidy before allowing anyone to look around. 

how long have you lived in Australia and where abouts are you based? 

On 04/05/2024 at 19:22, Amber Snowball said:

I sometimes wonder if they think because you are in Australia, you are on holiday so have more time than them or that you are the one with all the “news”? Rather than you are living a life of work, putting the bins out and ferrying children to sport just like them.

 

I actually had a relative say this to me in all seriousness. Quite sweet in a way so i had to smile. 

 "what's it like living in Australia, i guess it's like being on holiday all the time?"

I think this perception is more common than you think.  being overseas = sunshine = holiday. 

I had another relative who came and visited and was amazed i put a suit on to go to go out to work in my office every day "oh i didnt think anyone would wear suits in Australia".  

Always seems to be people from suburban Perth who struggle or struggled the most before giving up on their migration.  

There are different lifestyles open to people in Australia than being stuck "bored sitting on a patio in endless suburbia night after night" 

i feel you .  its also a "living in Sydney" issue as much as anything.

No doubt about , it quality of life has decreased for many except the already pretty asset rich, over the last few years,  it is  a worldwide phenomenon but particularly pronounced in places like Sydney.

I love visiting Sydney, and go there a few times a year.... but would i want to live there and have the daily grind to contend with as well?  Probably not, unless it was for a year of "living in Sydney" just for the experience.  

With the big increase in the demand for  / cost of rental, or house prices, and other factors, it has become a bit of a rat race like London, albeit with an amazing lifestyle IF you have several million $.  

The only people i know are happy in Sydney, but they have no mortgage and live in the eastern suburbs. 

The pressure is then somewhat off, access to the parts worth living near is easy,  and they don't need to climb the greasy pole or work all hours - which kind of defeats the point for many of living there if all you do is work, particularly if you are a "lifestyle migrant" like many Brits are. Why make life more difficult for yourself? 

Other cities are easier. 

Its a bit of a myth that Sydney's the only place where you can have a good life. 

In terms of whether you find somewhere "boring" or not i think this depends to an extent on your outlook on life, and what you can find pleasure in, and how you can relate to people.   

Culturally, compared to say European cities or the UK, i have always found  Sydney to be relatively conformist / immature in terms of it's youth subcultures / outlook on life.  So many people look like clones of each other, dress the same, same haircut / talk about same schools, money, way past the age where people do that in say the UK.  

This isn't AS prevalent in other cities in Aus, which have more alternative scenes, and are genuinely more relaxed, but it is a little bit of an Australian city thing. 

Because many people don't leave home until their late 20s/30s and stay living with parents, go to local Unis. continue to hang out with school friends, it lends itself to a tendency towards a more inward looking, and "conformist" culture (with exceptions of course).

When i first started working in Melbourne, i found all the talk of "what school did you go to" quite baffling (after 15 years working in professional office jobs in London where i don't think i'd heard anyone's schooling been mentioned once) ....... until i realised the men in my Melbourne office and, many of the ones in senior position  had been to the same couple of private schools, lived in pretty much the  same suburb as they'd gone to school in,  had been to the same Unis, in Melbourne and had lived at home whilst they had studied, were mostly all friends, all followed the same football team etc, and helped recruit others with the same background etc.  

It was pretty much a closed clique, and felt like i'd walked into a time warp. This in the Melbourne office of big international company too - not some small suburban office. 

I had to just laugh it all off and ignore, move on and find my own space . You're never going to win or really join in fully in a situation like that, you just have to find your own groove and not give a **** about the other rubbish. It means as a migrant, to an extent you might always be viewed as a bit of an outsider,  and have the few struggles which come with that.  How you adapt to that is key to making a go of it.   

 As for climate.......as a resident of Melbourne it's certainly not hot all the time and we get very little of the east coast humidity. In fact the biggest beef by many  about Melb in terms of weather is that it is pretty changeable and cool to mild for a good chunk of the year.  

Exactly. I’ve always been a tradit kind of person but nowadays to me it’s such a blast having Christmas - and then a long summer. Too good  

the first Christmas in 2012 was weird - 2 months after we’d arrived, living in Melb in a rental, far from family and friends, no furniture, odd seasons. I shed a few tears on Christmas Day. However we now smile at the memories of the strangeness of the first year and what we did, and have embraced and created our own “no  real set rules” Christmas which is very freeing. 
 

We mostly do something different every year - never bound by many rules. Obvs we put a lovely tree up , presents etc. There’s just the two of us usually so no pressure to prepare or expect a particular meal for guests - we did do a turkey breast last year alongside some lamb but it was the first time as we had guests, and actually we needn’t have bothered l. 

despite having a barbecue in our house,   we’ve never used it - at all - since we moved in  3 years ago!  In fact I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of barbecues I’ve done at home in the last 10 years  

We make sure we use quality ingredients but aren’t fixed to any dish. we’ve had mousakka one year, had a beef pie one year, we’ve done lamb cutlets,  one year I roasted a picked pork,  another we had some salmon - and a couple of years whilst on road trips at Christmas we’ve had an esky full of cheese and cold cuts, tapas style stuff. 
 

this year we decided to have baked lamb chops and potatoes for Christmas lunch. Fabulous butcher in Prahran market.   For starters we did dips and crudities, including some nice smoked salmon,  fresh fruit for desert and a slice of Christmas cake. Some really good Aussie wine always features. 

I usually get a few treats like special uk cheeses or a pork pie or bottle of beer. 

we love just doing what we like, and love Christmas in Oz, it’s the start of the summer and usually go on a road trip just after Chrissy for a week or two. 
 

the only christmas cards we got were from estate agents who manage our rental properties. Seems most people have stopped sending them ( I do still send to friends and family even to uk every year and despite visiting family pretty much every year  I still don’t get any back!).  
 

went back to uk for a couple of christmases since I’ve lived here. Meh. It’s nice feeling pre Christmas there and the day itself,  but as soon as you get past the 26th what I’d forgotten is that everyone sinks into a boring winter depression, skint and watching the rain. Found other than enjoying seeing family I was  very glad to return to Australia and the summer. 

2 hours ago, beketamun said:

Are electronics more expensive here?  Last time i checked the UK was more expensive, especially for things like TV's and computers, they're far closer to the place of manufacture here.

Here's virtually the same Samsung TV.....4595 UKP, or 4995AUD?  The UK is about 60% more, and they have lower wages anyway...thus far more expensive ?

https://www.harveynorman.com.au/samsung-85-inch-qn85b-neo-qled-4k-smart-tv.html

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/samsung-qe85qn85batxxu-85-smart-4k-ultra-hd-hdr-neo-qled-tv-with-bixby-alexa-and-google-assistant-10236983.html

I just bought a 75 inch Samsung Frame for around $3,500 dollars - the same model in the UK goes for about 3,500 pounds.  much cheaper in oz. 

Cost of living?  not that bad here despite all the talk, 

Residential rents have barely increased in Melbourne in the past 10 years. high immigration but high supply and development of property has meant there are a range of choices for tenants. 

  i could find a 2 bed apartment for rent at the same price as my first rental when i moved here 10 years ago, around $450 a week. 

i also own an investment property and the rent has not increased since it was built in 2015 - middle ring suburb  - commutable to city, quite nice 3 bed , 3 bath townhouse  - $570/ week. 

it may be different in other cities but for renters, melb has never been ( relatively speaking ) cheaper to start out in.  

cost of living in aus i firmly believe is  comparable with the uk now for food and groceries and consumer items like electronics - if you want to compare with same quality.  i was back in the uk in april and whilst you can still get the bargain basic bad quality groceries at lowish prices, of course, but  prices have really gone up if you want quality meat, fruit etc, it was around same price as melbourne. 

i also just bought a 75 inch samsung frame tv , the cost was $3500 all in here - in the uk it is roghly $3,500 pounds. we checked and compared.  it was also cheaper than same model available in the USA! 

we have found this before with some electrical goods, computers etc.  

and salaries are generally higher than uk. 

i guess the winters in Canada are brutal and long and people are snowbirds that fly for warmth in the winter as you mentioned. 

coming from the uk, which is much more temperate admittedly i felt the same....... however unless you're a huge beach or water sports fan,  you may actually spend less time there than you think,  as you do tend to adjust and get rather fussy with regard to what conditions you think are "beach weather" . Nice to have that luxury i guess

In Vic you generally don't see many people on the beaches much outside of December to March, as it's perceived as being too cold ;  the water isnt warm ( bay water is currently sat at 10 degrees - gets to around 19/ 20 in the summer) . The ocean itself south of Aus  near Geelong and Melb is around 18 degrees in  summer - it's refreshing.  

 Sure, it's all relative -  you do acclimatise.   We actually tend to take our summer holidays away from Victoria to enjoy warmer water and more reliable weather.   

Actually my only real regret was moving in late 30s  &  i should have done it 10 years earlier to be honest as it would  have probably been a bit easier to adapt perhaps.    

Moving aproaching middle age -  we had to adjust to a different kind of life from the uk in terms of the social aspects .

It is hard to make new long term friends.   fortunately we do have a few now.  They are other migrants from other countries - which is of course totally fine and absolutely love spending time with them and go on trips together, stay at each others houses, even been overseas together. 

but we  actually don't have any native born Australian friends at all after 10 years. 

 at the beginning i felt sad about this but it is not at all uncommon a story so don't feel bad about it if it doesn't happen.   I second the post which said take up a sport (or any other social activity hobby or interest that gets you out and socialising with people even casually, ). even if the folk you'll be with won't be mates, at least not right away, it gives you a focus to life and something to be " involved in" and generally makes life more pleasant.  

You do learn to become extremely independent / self reliant as a family so as long as your relationship with your partner is rock solid and you can work as a team  that is the main thing. 

Don't assume your family or friends will come to visit in Oz much unless all the stars align  - in most cases they simply won't bother to at all as its too much effort or too expensive or too far.  even if they can afford to do it regularly. they probably won't.   

And .......you will also  have to make the effort when you go back to the uk to meet up with them.   You can travel 10,000 miles just to pop in to see them .... they will of course be glad to see you, it'll be like you've just left the room....... but don't expect many of them to make a special effort to get in touch and may even be hesitant to  drive an hour or two  to see you whilst you're there.  It's just the way it is. 

get comfortable and at ease with these concepts as soon as you can and it's less stress all round.  

2 hours ago, DIG85 said:

Just out of interest , since when did the US have 52 states?

lol - "the Mandela effect"

14 hours ago, Marisawright said:

They've been talking about Australia turning into America ever since the 1950's, apparently.   My husband (who grew up here) tells me that when he was a lad, all the TV programs, all the films and all the music on the radio was American, and he feels the American influence has lessened a lot since then.  It's funny sometimes to reminisce about some pop hit from the 1960's.  I think Lulu or Gerry & the Pacemakers had the big hit, but he remembers it as sung by an American. 

I don't think Australia has become more Americanised compared to other countries.   The whole world has got more globalised and American influence is in every country.  When I visited the US after I'd been living in Australia for about 10 years,  I found the US alien compared to both Australia and the UK.  And when we were back in the UK in 2015, the shopping malls there looked exactly like the ones in Sydney.  

Its interesting how our perspective changes over time depending on our current reference points and our experiences. 

The first time i went on hoiday to the USA in 2000, travelled to the West Coast, California and how exotic and different from the uk it obviously was, 

went back to California  in 2018 and actually felt more "like home" i.e Aus and i see why so many Aussies do feel quite at home there.

The gum trees and climate,  mediterranean / australian plants everywhere, the large freeways, car culture, and so on.  All things which have become familiar by living in Australia for 10 years.  It doesnt feel nearly as "foreign" as it did, visiting there from the Uk.  

On the other hand ,visiting New York over Halloween 2019,  the culture and feel of NYC ( which i've also visited before i moved to Aus and since )  reminded me in many ways of being closer to  London or Europe in culture, lifestyle, aspirations,  rather than Australia, and actually made me miss the UK a bit and felt more like "that" home.  In some ways,  some Americans particularly in the North East, are more like Brits than they are like Aussies or Californians in their worldview and attitude.  The North East also has at least a couple of hundred years head start and more European history than Australia does -  and this is quite noticeable  to me now when i visit East Coast US, in a way that it wasn't,  when i lived in the Uk. 

Another reason we once can  "never go back" once you've emigrated and spent time living abroad.  Even if you physically move back , the experience of living overseas absolutely changes your perceptions, and perspective.  

On 26/02/2022 at 06:37, DukeNinja said:

Ok, this is an unusual question. Can you bring over house plants when you migrate to Oz?

We have a 15 year old Crassula Ovata (Jade plant) that we don't want to leave behind. Can this be done? If so, what is the process?

Thanks.

How funny.    When i emigrated in 2012, i took two small cuttings off a treasured Jade plant that had itself been a cutting off a much larger plant my grandmother had owned - it had sentimental value.  I wrapped the tiny  cuttings stems in my luggage amongst clothes and they survived the journey ( hardy things jades  as the cuttings can survive easily without water for days and days if needed  )  and have thrived, i've had them planted out in the garden, dug up and moved several times with me around Melbourne since.

But no, you're not meant to bring any plant material over. At all.   but there was no way they weren't coming with me.  i gave the main plant away to friends as the cuttings were enough to start fresh and still  keep the memory and link alive. 

I noticed on my last couple of viists to the uk in 2018 and 2019 i felt more Aussie in some ways than in times past (i  have been in Aus 10 years, am in mid 40s ) , just the general way people speak and carry themselves, it felt a bit alien to begin with rather than the familiar of " ah, i'm home". 

Always happy to get on  a plane  back to Aus now, and that it is home. The first few years weren't easy at all and of course I still miss uk based family,  but otherwise very settled now. 

Some things i notice with frustration when i  go back to the uk after being in  Aus ( specifically Melbourne - food , cafe culture, hospitality etc) and go somewhere like Manchester or even London it all seems a bit second rate and not "together"  and poor quality  in comparison - or at least there's more of a search for quality rather than the overall standard being high. 

It always seems so crowded and many areas run down too . Aus is a heap load more shiny - and clean -  in general. 

Also find now that i increasingly get frustrated with the indirect British way of  talking about everything, having to read people's minds to know what they are thinking, not upfront, the perceived "class" behaviours e.g which supermarket you go to  FFS. that's sad and tedious but it permeates uk life and all races and ages, even if they dont see it themselves. .    I still love British humour of course. 

23 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Lol!! If only I knew which beach was which?? 

This gets me very excited for our move - thank you so much!!!

Mostly Bayside from Hampton through Sandringham to Black Rock and Half Moon Bay.

The bottom ones are down at Chelsea / Bonbeach and Seaford. 

Don't agree that either the sand or the bay is generally "dirty".  We've dolphins. whales ( last weekend) all manner of bird and sea life. The beaches are pretty clean and also mechanically regular cleaned.  The water is often crystal clear particularly in summer.  I avoid St kilda beach.  Anywhere South of Middle Brighton is pretty awesome in terms of cleanliness. 

 After storms like anywhere it gets churned up, but to say we have a city of 5 million people around its shores and a river flowing into it,  i think it's pretty good. 

If you want the ocean its only an hour's drive. 

I really love the bay. its moods and light are absolutely fantastic and ever changing. the sun sets over the bay from bayside suburbs and its honestly as good as santorini at times.  Sorry to derail the thread! 

more rubbish melbourne beaches

Yeah the beaches are really rubbish in Melbourne 

I think this Vic outbreak ( and i hope it spreads a little more tbh - dont care what people think of me for saying so ) is the kick up the backside the lazy , complacent Australian public and useless politicians need to realise they cannot hide from this thing,  and the only way out of it is through vaccination and staged reopening, which should happen as soon as possible. 

I am normally a liberal inclined voter but the federal governments woeful handling of this pandemic - the states have done most of the work  - is jaw dropping. 

Sco mo' s recent and continued pandering to the knuckle dragging parochial thick bogan element,  to grub for votes by  talking of keeping borders shut indefinitely whilst deflecting from the abject failures and mixed messaging around the vaccine are shockingly cynical. And grossly negligent. 

Hopefully the imperative to get the vaccine into people will now come to the fore.  Thousands of lives are at stake. This is a matter of national emergency.  Lockdowns cost jobs and billions per week. 

The public have been badly served , but many , in their comfortable complacency, are almost as much to blame as the pollies.   3.5 million have died worldwide from covid and they want to go vaccine shopping? in the face of infinitesimally small risks compared with the covid which they will, without a vaccine, inevitably catch.   

Stunning ignorance - people  simply don't know what they are talking about but now are all vaccine experts and getting their medical cues from random anti vaxxers on twitter rather than the health department.   i despair sometimes. Did these people learn a single thing at school?

PS I'm already jabbed. 

Honestly, Manchester is a bit of a dump compared to most Australian cities, it's no contest.  Its a shame.

I grew up in the North of England.  When i go back i just find Mcr depressing, small and no where near as exciting and vibrant as Melbourne. Overall standard of food out and about is awful, parts look so dilapidated and others,  more and more like the third world.  Its dirty, people look depressed and angry.  i could go on. 

When you've been away 10 years and return its a shock. 

The difference in growth and dynamism over recent decades is quite something . 

Melbourne wasnt much bigger than Manchester in 1980 , both cities populations were  around 2.5 million people.   Fourty years later Melbourne is now twice the size of Manchester and has provided a shed load more opportunities for people to get on in life than the North West has. 

Could say the same about Scotland - that's  even more  pronounced.

Scotland's population in 1980 was 5 million whilst Victoria's was only about 3 million.   Victoria  now has 6.75 million people and an economy double the size with GDP per head 50% higher.    Scotland has a million fewer people, still around 5 million  and those remaining are much more badly paid than they were in comparison.  

Big changes and not for the better in the uk.