Lanky Lad

For the replies above....sorry for delay in reply... was in Sydney doing our weekly "Day Care" for our grandson!   On Monday we had an update.

Our daughter had notified intent to re-claim the bond and NOT to extend it further. The money is in the bank - but the bank cannot do anything until they get a release notice - from Centerlink.

The Commonwealth bank person on the  'phone indicated that the bonds are usually required to be paid at least 2 months before the CPV is granted - and accepts it can  take "months" to get its release to the payee ( due to Centerlink - and a suggestion that there are staff shortages.) and.. the bank is looking to work with Centerlink to revue the process.  Not sure  if that is  Centerlink proposed co-operation - or vice versa - or just BS!

It means in real terms that the $10,000 is earning at least 4 months interest to date  - that is not going into our daughters account!

Will  update when  there is any change.... 

Its over 10 years now since we landed -  our "kids" had to pay a $10,000 bond - repayable after 10 years.

Their application for it to be repaid - received no reply - over two months on and after lodging a complaint - today received a telephone call. The gist  of it seems to be.   ".. wind yer neck in and wait.... it could take months before the bond is repaid"

So I am looking here for anybody  entering on the  Contributory Parent Visa (813??)   and  after paying teh visa costs and  the added bond cost. My wive's bond as main applicant was $10,000. Looking for more practical results and facts that what today's caller gave out.

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I wasn't suggesting you should use that calculator.  I'm referencing the article. It explains that IF you are dealing with a finance company that has a policy of using "HEM" (Household Expenditure Measure), they will compare your actual expenditure against the HEM and they will use the HIGHER of the two.  Unreasonable, but that is how they work and it's non-negotiable.

As you point out, the HEM is always going to be higher because you have no mortgage/rent.  Therefore any lender which uses HEM won't lend to you. That is the explanation and no, of course call centre drones don't know how it works.

The question is whether you can find any sensible lenders out there who have not adopted the lazy HEM method.

 

I used the calculator as you suggested - to get an idea on  what the look for....but the calculator asks about rent or mortgage - which assumes  the applicant must have one or 'tother.   We don't!  Got nowhere with Toyota Finance... call centre type "customer services"  got into a loop with emails.. they say the cannot  assess until an application is  submitted... I reply that the dealership  have decided  that even though we paid  our last car loan off 3 years early.... they "assume" our income would not allow Toyota to  offer a loan!   Toyota in turn ignore that remark - so far three times... and offer nothing else!   The dealership  will not accept bank statements as proof of  ongoing UK pension  monthly payments!   They want a letter from the UK tax office... and look  blank when I say that would  probably entail a 2 month  wait as they decide which  department deals with expats!   AND anything over 90 days is not regarded as "current proof".  

At this point its not about getting a car loan - which our bank is  happy to handle -  its about getting answers. However it seems to revolve around basic aussie ways of living  and paying bills.. and the  mention the  word pensioner - and its automatically assumed the  pension  comes from Centrelink and can be lowered or stopped.   They don't understand - or even try to understand  that a UK pension is paid for life - albeit  that expat in Aussie, Africa and Canada - don't  get updates as they  arise in the UK.

The "argument" seems to centre not on the amount of income - but where it is derived and can be proved. Centrelink  don't handle  the UK pension apart from  wanting to record them - Aussies seem to think we can walk into a pensions office and   walk out with a bit of paper!   Centrelink may have its many faults - but they can  - for aussies -  do a pension  history statement  basically on request.

I think  this  just about closes  things.... not much point dealing with call centre scripts at Toyota ......  thanks for  digging into all this stuff for me...it's appreciated

22 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Oops, sorry about that, computer problems.

I have done further research and there is definitely no government regulation.  It is possible the government will take some action, but the Royal Commission hasn't handed down its recommendations yet. So your dealer guy has no idea what he's talking about.

The benchmark he's referring to is called the HEM (Household Expenditure Measure).  There is no law that says banks have to use it.  The Commonwealth Bank decided to adopt it in 2012 (essentially as an "efficiency" measure - i.e  to save time and hang the customer) and gradually, all the other banks, and some (but not all) other lenders, followed suit.

Here is an article that explains it:

https://www.homeloanexperts.com.au/mortgage-calculators/living-expenses-calculator/

The most relevant sentence in that article is this:

"When lenders ask you to estimate your living expenses, they take the higher of the HEM or your declared expenses."

At the Royal Commission (as I'm sure you know), there have been repeated scandals about banks lending to people who can't afford it, and therefore many lenders are running scared and tightening their lending criteria - but the government has not given them any specific instructions.  Each lender has made their own decision.  It sounds as though the dealer finance company has decided to adopt HEM. 

So, the refusal has nothing to do with you being on a British pension, any Australian with the same income and expenses, from whatever source, would be in the same boat. 

The question is whether you can find a lender who is not using HEM (it's not compulsory).  

Ironically, it's likely the Royal Commission will ban the use of the HEM because for most working people, it under-estimates their real expenditure, and therefore it's part of the problem, not a solution!

By the way, you seemed to imply that your situation, i.e. owning your property outright and living on a pension, was unusual in Australia.  Certainly, living on a British pension is unusual (and it's scandalous that the British government freezes the pension), but there are many thousands of Australian pensioners who are "asset rich, cash poor".   In Sydney and Melbourne, it's extremely common for someone in old age to be sitting in a fully-paid-off home.  It's why reverse mortgages are growing in popularity in spite of their downsides.

 

Hi, Sorry for delay - been busy giant killing!   The  other problem with the big finance companies - call centre type "customer services" - they all seem to have scripts and  no brains!

Using that living expense calculator - is not really helpful -   Limited options which don't  allow a real "picture", i.e.    RENT or MORTGAGE??    We  have none - we own the  house and land outright - paid cash 10 years ago!   $462  living expenses??  we  don't buy alcohol - eat pre packed frozen meals -  have a fridge in the garage full of beer and we don't eat  junk foods!   
The dealership and  Toyota Finance have not replied telling  us why we have all this crap having paid off our last car loan in  half the time   by doubling their stipulated monthly payment.   

14 hours ago, Marisawright said:

You say the "income baseline" has been set around the minimum allowance for the Aussie State Pension, but I've been doing my research and i can find no evidence for that whatsoever. Happy to be proved wrong, but I can't find any sign that the government has set any kind of minimum income at all.  

REPEATING WHAT THE CAR DEALERSHIP  FINANCE GUY TOLD US.

I think the dealers may be telling you white lies - much easier to blame the government rather than blame their own finance companies.    I AGREE 

The thing is, if the criteria is set by the car finance companies, then each company makes their own decisions and others may have different rules - so it's worth checking.

IN OUR CONVERSATION, THE FINANCE GUY INTIMATED THAT  - "ALL THESE ISSUES ARE DUE TO THE ROYAL COMMISSION  ON BANKING PRACTICES , EARLIER THIS YEAR".

And by the way, in Australia it's not true to say that a car loan is always secured against your house. It can be secured against the car itself.

WE HAVE NOT ASKED  A BANK -  I THINK THEY ARE TO EAGER IF A LOANEE  HAS A SUDDEN PROBLEM... TO FORECLOSE AND START PROCEEDINGS - THIS  IS BASED ON WHAT I KNEW IN  THE UK, AND I  WOULD TRUST AUSSIE  BANKS LESS!    FINACE HOUSES - I GATHER -  HOLD  THE CAR TITLE TO FINAL PAYMENT.  

https://www.finder.com.au/car-loans-for-pensioners

There is a government Pension Loans Scheme for people who are of retirement age but don't get the full Australian Age Pension, so you may want to look at that:

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/pension-loans-scheme/eligibility-payment-rates

Hi,

I have added comments to your post about - in BOLD !

As the post title indicates, I am looking to find out if I am the only pensioner in aussie who had recently had this "block! mentioned re car finance from a Ford and a KIA dealership - which seems to indicate that  there is in fact some new legislation involved.

I am aware of all the other options and in fact  The Credit Union seems a realistic option, they too hold the car title till final payment - which is not a problem.

Knowing that  the UK pension does not change from the rate it was set at on the day you leave the UK _  this post - as was the other - was aimed at getting details from  any who  may have  - in the past few months - had this applied to  them.

I cannot understand  how car dealerships - appear to be  turning away sales because of - allegedly -  a baseline of income that assess your ability to afford a loan after household bills, food and  other essential's are taken from  that income.  Also, logically if it is indeed a government "regulation" - then it would also apply to all  and  any  supplier of loans including banks!

I  made a similar post in.... looking like the  wrong place   ( hope   its OK mods??)

Seems as a result of a Royal Commission  on  banks /finance and loan companies and  allowing loans beyond the  means of the recipient to keep up the payments - that an income baseline was set and any UK expat in aussie with only the  UK State Pension and especially if it was maybe granted 10/15 years ago ... can have issues getting a car loan and run fact any loans.

OK to keep on topic...its only  experience from UK pensioners I am looking for... however for those  that don't  grasp that  these "new" condition affect all and any loans supplier on any type of purchase,   I accept these are  more often " unsecured"  loans and banks and some  other finance shops can offer secured loans -  using  mainly  your  home if you  own it.  

I am  more concerned in attitudes from  car dealerships and  car finance.

It seems the  income baseline has been set around the minimum allowance  for  the Aussie State Pension, which  unlike the UK state pension - can be amended and or withdrawn.  It seems that cardinalships et al,  are under the impression that the UK state pension  is the  same - which ( so far) is not so. 

So any UK state pension only funded having  or had  this problem??

15 hours ago, ramot said:

Just a thought it might be better to post in the family/partners thread. I only picked your post up by chance and there are always new parents moving here

Good Idea.... thanks - will do..

Things seem to have shifted from the intent of my post... I was really hoping other "pensioners"  with UK pensions - have had similar problems with  the finance  companies and the "New" conditions and  income requirements - which seem to stem from  a Royal Commission earlier this  years  and  irregularities in income when  granting  loans.

Its looking  like we are the only couple on  UK pensions who have come across  this!

So far I cannot  discover if other loan / finance companies  - outside the motor industry are bound  by  the Commission findings and recommendations.

14 hours ago, ramot said:

out of interest when did they bring in the new regulations? What is the amount of the minimum aged pension, will be useful for us to know, and pass on to others in the same situation. We meet up regularly with others on our visa and will ask anyone else has had problems when we meet next month. Should have been this Thursday but had to slip it a month.

We are finally in the queue for the CPV, and although we would rather not pay the approx. $100,000 we do accept that we have never paid any tax in Australia so do understand the charge. 

You were lucky to only pay for one of you, as I understand they closed that loophole quite a few years ago.

Would be interesting to know what conditions UK imposes if there is a parent visa there. 

We won’t decide whether to stay on our visa or take up the CPV depending how long we wait for it and our age. Might just not be worth it, as the it has blown out from 1 year to who knows how long.

Not sure what you mean  by new regulations......    The problem we face and presumably any expat who falls  foul of  - what seems to  have been implemented  by a Royal Commission, assembled to discuss and remedy indiscretions among the banking industry  - i.e. allowing or suggesting that a person  earning - say - $2000 a months  to stay they get paid $8000 a month - and  seemingly not seek proof of income.  There also  seems to be  new regulation NOT in favour of banks and any  others who offer car purchase loans....it seems that if a buyer defaults payments... the finance office cannot   take the car back. But  I  only have word of mouth. Obviously - if this is fact... it seems logical the  finance company and banks - will want more real proof of actual income and - that  seems to be  involving us.  

UK pension  never have sent out any update info... coz  it does not apply to us - so everything we have is around 8 years old!   Two car dealerships finance offices - will not accept  bank statements as proof of regally pension receipts!  And typically they want everything valid for  a few previous months to prevent somebody taking a (bad ) job.... getting a loan and then packing the  job in!

The spouse visa was still an option when I applied in 2009  - it saved us about £12,000 !

I don't think  the UK makes any stipulations about visa's of any  class.. for outgoing citizens.  They are only concerned in keeping scammers out!  

The CPV 143 which my wife obtained, allows permanent residence - we had medicare cover - BUT in hardship - the aussie government will not  assist financially in any way  for at least  2 years.  Don't know anymore coz we never had call to "test the system".   

Not knowing your visa class - I cannot suggest anything, we have a dutch friend who - originally she and her Scottish husband came over from Africa. had some form of retirement visa - which required than to  proof every 4 years they had access to - I think - au$670,000 in cash or assets other than their  home.  Keith died 2 years back and she is still here  - so not sure if anything changed.

10 hours ago, ramot said:

out of interest when did they bring in the new regulations? What is the amount of the minimum aged pension, will be useful for us to know, and pass on to others in the same situation. We meet up regularly with others on our visa and will ask anyone else has had problems when we meet next month. Should have been this Thursday but had to slip it a month.

We are finally in the queue for the CPV, and although we would rather not pay the approx. $100,000 we do accept that we have never paid any tax in Australia so do understand the charge. 

You were lucky to only pay for one of you, as I understand they closed that loophole quite a few years ago.

Would be interesting to know what conditions UK imposes if there is a parent visa there. 

We won’t decide whether to stay on our visa or take up the CPV depending how long we wait for it and our age. Might just not be worth it, as the it has blown out from 1 year to who knows how long.

It appears there was a Royal Commission early ( June?) this  year - to  put place restrictions on banks offering  loans - knowing that the applicant is either feeding false info - being aided to provide false information and who in really terms cannot afford to repay the loan. It then cascades down to all sources of loans for any item.

Australia being what it is - a land where immigration is a major factor - and a surplus of ( alleged)  low educated who cannot  or are unwilling to find work AND those who  get loans and then prefer to  go to Bali 3 times a year and fail to pay the car loans ( my words not the commissions!)   That being so, it appears that a baseline income was decided - which appears to be the amount paid as the minimum paid via  the Australian aged pension. I have no idea what that is and appears - as far as UK immigrant pensioners are concerned - our rate does not change from the day we flew out to Aussie - and our at least seems to be below the aussie rate.   Poms eligible to an Aussie pension - no matter  what the costs  or situation of granted visa's - will need to submit a claim  giving all the financial details requested *-  if the bottom line is LESS than Aussie pension rates.. the UK pensions will be made up to aussie rates. Which is a long standing arrangement the two governments made donkeys years ago.

"Would be interesting to know what conditions UK imposes if there is a parent visa there. "    Not sure what you mean  with this... the UK pays  any and all your STATE pension as funded via your NHS contributions. Work superannuations and  private funded pensions are not state responsibility...as far as I know ..and aussie see all and any income as just that and IF you applied for an aussie pension - which  you can  AFTER being permanently resident for 10 years.... an aussie pension application is granted on the above ( self finance) basis.

We originally  applied via a UK agent for CPV sub class 143 - which at that time meant au$27000 + $10,000  bond for wife  as main applicant and au$27000 + au$4000 bond for me.We saw on PIO -  an aussie agent in Sydney  and contacted him ( Eric?????) who pointed out that we could operate within  the immigration rules and IF I cancelled my CPV... and applied for a spouse visa - which I did and it was about au$1800 or so all in with fee's!  It did need me to get an air ticket to NZ to cater for a 90 days tourist  visa and when I applied I was given an immediate bridging visa - and I later got a refund on the air flight!

It took - in the UK - just  over 2 years from application to getting the visa -  plus the  2 years we had to  wait  - which seems to give a period to allow -  our kids   to find stable employment and accomodation. We applied early 2004 after an over christmas recce to Sydney  - flew out  3 weeks after visa granted and cleared the  house sale etc 31st October 2008.  

Don't suppose you and your mates are  on the NSW Central Coast???

I am really surprised that  there are not more UK pensioners - who  do not yet qualify for an aussie top up.... having problems.   Toyota  Finance appear to use the  aussie ( state) pension lowest rate - as their baseline.

We meet up regularly with others on our visa ???????   if you want any "private " info.... PM me.

18 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

If that's the case then I must be a 2nd class British citizen, because I had exactly the same problems when I returned to the UK after living in Australia for thirty years.  

Not only could I not qualify for any loan of any sort, I was regarded as too much of a risk for a rental property - I had to pay six months rent in advance.  Not only that, but I could only get the most basic bank account, with no interest payable, no overdraft facility and no credit card.  And yes, I had substantial assets - as you've found in Australia, that cuts no ice at all.   On investigating, I found that it would take several years before that would change.

Sh!t happens when you move countries, in whichever direction.  That's life.

Apart from this credit issue, in what way are you being treated differently from "born here' Aussies?   You're about to apply for the Australian pension, you're covered by Medicare, you've got a Seniors Card.  So what if you paid $27,000 for the visa - that's going to be easily swallowed up by your Medicare costs for the rest of your life (even if you're in good health now, dying is expensive you know).  That's why you're asked to pay.  As an Australian taxpayer, I think it's only fair.

As I wrote earlier  - my post was intended to discover if other " senior " members had faced this same issue.... not to invite discussion  - or argument - on any other subject. But thanks  for  your input. 

44 minutes ago, ramot said:

Can’t really help. When you say your income is only from UK pension/pensions? Without prying did you mean you only receive the state pension?

We are retirees in Oz, our only income is from UK, we bought a new car 2 years ago with no problem on finance from Honda, and I asked my husband if he could remember if our income had to be declared but he can’t remember, I only know we had no problem.

We have found on other occasions that because we are ‘outside the norm’ it has presented difficulties, but in the 1 5 years here never really had a problem buying anything and we don’t even have PR.

Good luck, know how frustrating it can be here.

Hi,

Yes as the Aussies say... we are  "self funded" - on  UK  pensions only.    The criteria seems to be - that the "new" amended finance regulation... uses the  aussie minimum  aged pension as the baseline.   It appears to be laid out to prevent the tow rags who  buy on finance and  end  up owing more than they can pay - so don't bother!  We are told the criteria is created from an average of all normal household expenses i.e.  utility bills, council bills, rent  or margate payments, food  bills  ( assessed it seems - on  how many people  are in the  house!) and any other items purchased on credit.   IF income falls below that theoretical  figure.... the  finance house cannot accept the purchase.  ADDED to that - they ignore credit ratings and there is no avenue to appeal! i.e. we own outright or home,   we own our KIA - having doubled  the payments to knock it down  from 7  years finance and paid it off is the just over 3 years.  We also have 20 solar panels and not  paid any  electric  for   three quarters. None  of  these + factors can be appealed!   ADDED to that,  the two above  car dealerships will not or cannot accept  bank statements  that show our pensions paid in from UK - monthly!   The legislation  based on aussie pension - which can be stopped by the  sitting  government - basically at will on any change of policy - unlike the UK  which is paid  until death!  

In applying for the  aussie pension - for which we are entitled as is  any other immigrant who has been permanent resident for 10 years  - we were asked to provide proof of identity.  One proof is citizenship certificates - I asked if our Aussie Citizen 2nd Class was acceptable. Looking confused, the lady said... there is no 2nd class. I replied that there was indeed because we are citizens,  with  a passport that states we are Australian subject - but we NEVER get the  same allowances or treatment   as "born here" aussies!  Ignoring that  my wives sub class 143 parent visa cost $27,000 plus  and that she paid a $10,000 bond held for  10 years and  now Centrelink is pigging us around to get it back". That we OWN our home unlike the majority of Aussies  -  we have ZERO debt.

Today  we went to our local MP his staff are clueless but  took notes and said  they will bring it to his attention!     I am not  holding my breath in anticipation!

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The workaround is - don't get finance from a car dealer.  Their loans are a rip-off.  They're desperate to sell you the loan because they make so much profit from it.

When I was in the UK, I was astonished at how common it was for people to buy a car on credit - it's a very expensive way to buy a car, unless it's a company car.   

Go to your bank and see if they will give you a car loan (which, if you can get it, will be on more favourable terms anyway).  They may be more likely to take your real circumstances into account.

Otherwise, could you buy second-hand and use your credit cards and cash?

 

Yes, we looked at banks and other loan "outlets" - but facts  are facts - i.e. borrow $25,000 from a bank  or  a car sellers finance  company and the interest rate is  -  usually the same give or take  0.5% . The difference is - a bank wants collateral  and that is usually your house - while a car sellers only course on default of payment - is to grab the car back.   ( Secured and un-secured loans.)

Looking at   loan costs  from  banks and other sources,  -  all seem to level out around the same  figures.  
Car showrooms often  show 0%  loans... or as we were offered last week from a Ford dealership.... 0.9%   while KIA were offering  4.5% - 7.2%. The  Ford Escape- we found  was offered at 0.9% - because ( although the sales guy had not mentioned it )    the car was not compliant with  a coming law ( 2019) that all cars must be fitted with emergency braking... ( forget the full title)    but it seems - anti -  tailgating  -  the  model  with that brake system fitted was being  sold with  7.2% finance.   KIA were doing the same.  

Also  car dealers have  to pay  their supplier a certain  set sum per model type - and its usually the supplier  rather than the dealer who makes "special" offer's - but sometimes  the amount of cars sold at a given dealership can also create a situation where if the dealer is down on quota... he can offer at least one vehicle at a bigger sales price discount  - lose money on that deal... but get the full  "promotion" bulk discount in cars sales achieved!

In general from UK experiences in  home and company business dealings  with banks, -  is to avoid them for loans.  Banks   can be uptight and send out threats quick time. On the other  option - a car dealership finance company  ( Kia in Oz use Toyota Finance - or at least  our Kia dealer does!)   from others in the UK I found that if an employee  was sacked or  made redundant, hit by a bus and  hospitalised etc,.   the  finance company will assess  the problem and  come to a compromise. They don't want another used car to  dump and in doing so write of the balance of the loan. (  unless they cannot get a return of the loan amount).

While we have not failed to pay off in full and on time all our previous car loans -  I have to say that use of the aussie motorways and main roads  - is not always a safe or pleasant experience  and  with a seeming increase in  useless drivers - there is not  guarantee that s**t will happen due to idiots and write  off the car and  hospitalise on for both of us!   That said sitting watching TV at night  can often end in having  a ute or crazed P plater nicked car in  your settee. And  should the happen... I would  not like to  be dealing with a bank!

In posting I was not really  inquiring about loan options - but  looking for ex Pat pensioners on UK pensions only funding in Oz.  
feel sure my wife and I cannot be  the only ones in Aussie to have come across this situation.  And while the above all relates  to cars and finance.... it can and does apply to buying a 50inch  TV  from Hardly Normal or any item  being purchased  using credit companies.

31st October and  we will have been in Aussie 10  years.... and we can apply for an aussie pension.  Meanwhile - having paid outright for  how then new build home and our first  car here, 4 years ago after a rear ender put my better half off our Holden Astra! Being about to take on  day care twice a week for  out then  1 year old grandson... we opted for a Kia Sportage.   And found we were treated more like dole queue scroungers!   

The aussies have finance regulation in place to - in my thinking - stop the - moron faction of  life,  buying cars etc on a finance plan.... and  not paying regularly.  So  the nanny state have set a regulation  that basically calculate averages  for life essentionals - i.e.  rent or mortgage payments ( we don't have either)   or Car payments ( at time we had none)   Electricity and Gas bills - ( we have 20 solar panels and   the last three quarters were $0 bills!)    Gas - we pay - ditto all the council tax bill.   And finally food bills.   We eat well - but not pre made meals from the supermarkets .  In short we manage our expenses and life style according to our means from  out UK state and  one work related pensions - which are less than  the  Aussie pension when granted.

So   we had problems at  first  from Toyota Finance  because  their  computer system uses the amount set by the government regulation as the baseline - and we fell below it!  The car dealership... as they  seem able - at that time circumvented the regulation and  we got the car sorted.    

Come January 2019,  our grandson starts school and  we can finally retire in aussie and after clocking up 400k  each week in  travel to and from our Kids place in Sydney and catering for a dog  in the boot and a kids chairs in the back seats and a boot full of spare clothes, dog food and waters  bottles...... we thought it would be nice  to change  our car before its value drops too much.

Still awake??

The regulation  has - we were told - been "upgraded" - which is politician crap for - " we closed a few loop holes".  So  having spent a frontal of 9 hours in the Kia showrooms and a Ford showroom ( Ford Escape)    - the Ford  finance  guy started   filling in the  paperwork.... got to  "Income"  - we told him, he broke down in tears and and said  how sorry he was to hear that poverty still exists in 2018 Australia ( not really) but he was amazed that expat pensioners fall way down on what the aussie pensioners get!  As it is out tolled income from  three UK pensions  - leaves us UNDER the baseline allowed for finance!   We went back to Kia and asked  if we had problems after the pigeon around   4 years ago with out pensions. The  guy said he had not checked  because as we not  got finance for our Kia on a 7 years term - which we doubled the payments and paid off in  3 years 5 months AND a $450 early closer fee! - but back he came - sorry... we  don't seem able to accept your "request for finance" - he said getting official and  not the mate we had hours earlier"!

So -  this post is to hear from other expat pensioners if  they have had this issue - and if  there is a "workaround" ??   

We came over on a Contributory Parent Visa - which in 2008 cost  au$27,000 + plus agents fees etc, - back  + a au$10,00. ( our aussie agent suggested I cancel my application  and agfater arriving on a tourist visa...apply for a spouse visa.... I did and saved £12,000 !   We  get the bond back - theoretically,  - in December '18

Looking for solutions!!!!