KC24

3 hours ago, LawyerAbroad said:

Not having your current employer to do a reference does make things tricker, I suspect.

Sorry LawyerAbroad, just spotted your post too. Thanks again. I think I might need to speak to my employer now, we could be two years away in getting our visa granted so it's a tricky one!

15 minutes ago, Libbyella said:

We activated our visa in 2017 and are now finalising plans to leave for Brisbane later this year. 

Thanks for this Libbyella, this is very useful. You were really up against it, so glad it all worked out for you.

All the best for the move - we're hoping to move to Brisbane too, although I suspect we might be a year or two behind you!

On 27/01/2019 at 11:27, selfhelp said:

Since my last post on here two months ago, I’ve submitted my qualifications for assessment and am still waiting to hear back from the admissions board.

Hi selfhelp, just wondering if you'd heard back from the admissions board (and which admissions board you applied to)?

Now that our visa application has been submitted (we went the spouse visa route), time to get the ball rolling with this! I've managed to track down all my course outlines (some more detailed than others) and I've drafted a detailed statement going through each of the 11 academic subjects. I see that the Uniform Principles require that if you're looking for any exemptions you need documentary evidence which is "corroborated by evidence from the applicant's employer, or other persons with whom the applicant has been associated with in practice".

What did you/LawyerAbroad do for this? I can get a supporting statement from former colleagues at my previous two firms, but obviously my current employer isn't yet aware of my plans. My former managing partner would be the best person to speak to both my experience and ability (if that's what they're even corroborating) but unfortunately my husband still works at that firm and I don't want to cause any issues for him while we wait for our visa (which could be up to 2 years away from being granted).

Thanks!

Hi I was wondering if someone can help us. I'm applying for the 461 visa offshore from UK and I see that Form 147 asks our intended date of arrival in Australia (and that if I'm already in Australia, mark this as N/A).

Our intended date in Australia very much depends on when this visa is granted, so I can't see how we can answer this. However, I'm nervous about putting this as "N/A" in case it causes any confusion on whether this is an offshore application. Equally, I don't want to leave it blank and then my application immediately goes to the bottom of the pile (if that's even how it works). Do we put the date we'd like to be in Australia?

Everything else is ready to go this is the last question I've left blank and I'm not sure how to answer! Any help greatly appreciated!

On 27/01/2019 at 11:27, selfhelp said:

Since my last post on here two months ago, I’ve submitted my qualifications for assessment and am still waiting to hear back from the admissions board. Should be hearing back any day now, I will keep everyone updated!

 

All the best selfhelp! Looking forward to hearing how it goes. 

On 28/01/2019 at 08:20, LawyerAbroad said:

PS. Also might be worth contacting your university and they may be able to provide you with the tutorial schedule and reading lists from when you were at university. My university couldn't help, but I was able to get a subject list from BVC provider, which was useful for PLT exemption.

This was a top tip. My university are helpfully looking out course materials and I'm going to start pulling together materials over the next few weeks.  Thanks again!

As a lawyer, I would guess that you have done your research on the 461 Visa and the conditions and the timeframes for grant of the visa (minimum 18 months).  In case you have not, one of the key things to be aware of with the NZ special visa arrangement that your husband will be on is that you are effectively on your own and, if you are out of work, there is no entitlement to any benefits.  On the 461 Visa you are required to have full medical insurance in place as you cannot access Medicare on this visa.  However, there is a question about whether, as a UK citizen, you can access Medicare under the reciprocal healthcare arrangements.  These reciprocal arrangements allow UK citizens to access Medicare for acute conditions but not for elective surgery/ongoing chronic health conditions. 
Just make sure you have plenty of money in the bank before coming to Australia in case it takes you some time to pick up employment.

On 28/01/2019 at 01:32, ramot said:

The difference in house prices depends on where you are moving from and to. My son in a nice suburb north of Brisbane Eaton’s Hill, approx 40 mins to city centre? has a 4 bed 2 bathroom house, large rumpus room, block is over 1000 sq meters, is valued under $600,000. That equates to approximately 326,000 Uk pds. I don’t think that’s over expensive? I assume the closer to the city centre properties will cost more but that is the same every where. 

Thanks Ramot, you're right that's pretty reasonable particularly given house prices in Edinburgh right now!

I don't know what area of law you currently specialise in but you might be able to find a job in a law firm if your skills are in demand.  I practised as an overseas qualified lawyer until I got admitte.  However, I worked in Energy and Resources where there was a shortage of experienced lawyers in Brisbane in 2008.  The firm I worked for sponsored me and paid relocation.  You may be able to pick up work in the government sector (eg applying regulations, enforcement action etc) while requalifying.  I know another UK lawyer who has done this and she is in no hurry to requalify as she really enjoys the work and can't countenance going back to private practice.  I am currently working in house for a government owned corporation (electricity distribution, retail and new technologies) which is a great, relatively stress free environment but less pay than the private sector.  It certainly beats the top tier law firms in Brisbane which are not very diverse, are run almost exclusively by middle aged white privately educated men and where mental health issues are rife due to overwork and a bullying culture etc. Coming from Worcestershire, the cost of housing was eye-watering around Brisbane even in early 2009 when we bought and we live out in the area recommended by Ramot.  We tripled our mortgage and only gained a fifth bedroom....  If we'd stayed put we would have been mortgage free by now.  Just make sure that you do your research before taking the plunge if you currently enjoy life in Scotland, your legal jobs are bearable and you are comfortable financially.

 

Thanks Loopylu, that’s hugely helpful.

We’ve been trying to look into the job market in Brisbane but struggling to find information - the few recruitment agencies who have been in touch have painted a rather bleak picture of our chances of finding qualified legal work as an overseas lawyer (particularly in house roles) but recruitment websites such as Seek seem to indicate that there are a lot of both qualified and paralegal roles going. I’m not really sure how else to research into this to be honest, any tips/advice would be greatly appreciated!

I’d be going out there on a 461 visa so the easiest path to PR seems to be a 189 visa which would require requalifying in QLD. I like law but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me if I couldn’t do it out there, I’m fairly flexible on what I ultimately do - which is why now is a good time to be thinking about this from my perspective at least! My background is corporate law but I’ve been working in house at an investment management firm for a couple of years now. My husband’s background is litigation doing a lot of work with public sector clients - he’s probably a bit more set on staying in law than I am, but is also keeping an open mind.

We’ve spoken a lot about lifestyle and our expectations as we know we wouldn’t be able to command the same salaries as we currently do and we’re aware that it won’t be a matter of copy pasting our current life in Australia. This is part of the attraction to be honest! However, I just wanted a steer from the Forum on what is a liveable salary in Brisbane because we don’t want to uproot to the other side of the world to be struggling to make ends meet. (I’d picked $60k because my brother in law (who lives in Australia) advised 60-70k might be a realistic salary to achieve). 

(I’ve also just realised I could have responded to all the posts in one post, sorry to spam everyone!)

On 27/01/2019 at 22:27, Marisawright said:

It’s safe to say the cost of living is much the same in both countries, except for the cost of housing which is much more expensive in Australia than in Scotland. So do your research on rental and purchase prices for homes and that will give you an idea. Realestate.com.au

Thanks Marisa - we've been looking at these websites and you're right, the biggest differential looks like it's going to be monthly rent! At this stage we've got no idea what kind of areas we want to live but budgeting for $700pw seems to be sensible (appreciate there are cheaper places) - does this match with your experience in practice? 

I've pulled together a very rough and ready budget from various websites and advice from my brother in law (who lives in Wellington Point), but it would be a great help to get some advice on what is a kind of minimum liveable salary in Brisbane from people who have actually lived out there!

Can't help with how realistic $120k is for your line of work, but that sounds like more than enough to support 2 people comfortably in Brisbane. Obviously depending on how lavish your lifestyle is!

Hi there - I'm new to this site so apologies if there is another more appropriate thread for this.

My husband and I are looking to move to Brisbane. We're both qualified solicitors in Scotland and have quite a comfortable lifestyle here, but we know we won't be able to get the same kind of salary in Australia as we need to re-qualify and gain some Australian legal experience first. The plan is to get a paralegal/legal secretary type job and work on getting admitted in QLD part-time. We're not particularly fussed on the type of work we do while we work towards re-qualifying (although a legal job would help us get some experience), but in order to know if this is feasible at all it would be great if anyone had any advice on the minimum salary we'd need for a relatively comfortable lifestyle in Brisbane.

Is $120k total household income reasonable to sustain the two of us (or realistic to expect to get)? There are so many variables I know but even a completely ballpark idea would be a huge help!

Thanks in advance!

2 hours ago, LawyerAbroad said:

Hi KC24,

Really glad this post was of some interest / use to you. So I broke the subjects down into two categories. 1) Those I could try to get exemption from based on my university studies. 2) Those I could try to get exemption from based on being a practising barrister (that included trust accounting).

For items in (1), I put together as much as I could. For example, I studied the Law of Evidence at university. I went to my parents' attic and found my old text book (photocopied the Contents pages), found all my old lecture /tutorial handouts and put them into a file. In my submission I explained how what I studied was very similar / identical to Evidence in Aus. And I did that for every subject that I was looking for exemption for. I remember doing the same for Administrative Law and the other subjects.

For items in (2), I wrote quite a lengthy piece for each item. For example, for trust accounting I explained that I am Direct Access qualified (I sent over the lever arch of study material for that course). I explained, making reference to  the course material, how I understood the restrictions on dealing with client money, etc etc and how I deployed that in practice.

I used the University of New England. They are very quick at responding to online queries and will provide individual course quotes. The university was very easy to deal with overall and I would recommend it. Don't forget about the (not insignificant) cost of buying textbooks and shipping them over. I used the UNE book shop.

So I did continue to work. I had the luxury of being self-employed, which meant I could take the days off for the 3 hour exams, which I took at the University of Leeds. All the exams were open book, which took some of the pressure of revision, but I still prepared crib sheets with key cases, etc so I wasn't wading through my course notes or text book. The study during the term was intense. Its an 11 week course (I think) for each subject. You have your 3 hour exam during week 12. So if you get behind with the work you end up in a bad place! Every week involves at least 100 pages plus of text book reading across two textbooks, usually. In addition there is a 2-3 hour lecture to watch AND a 1 hour tutorial. That is all per 1 subject. I studied over 2 semesters and did 2 subjects in both semesters. So that was 200 pages, 2 letters, etc. In week 5 (again I think) there is a 2,500 word coursework per subject to complete that is usually 30-40% of your final grade.

Is that any help?

Hi LawyerAbroad

This is so helpful I cannot thank you enough. Thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed response, it’s greatly appreciated.

As we’re both full time private practice it’s looking likely that we’ll wait until we’re in Australia to start any study, but use the time we’re still in the UK to prepare a full response to the assessment application. I’m kicking myself slightly for being so ruthless in throwing out my course materials but I’m sure I could track down a friend who has a bit more nostalgia and loft space.

Thank you again for your help, congratulations on your visa and all the best with your move!

On 06/09/2018 at 11:01, LawyerAbroad said:

Hi guys,

 

This is my first time posting on the site. I've lurked in the background taking all your helpful advice and now I see an opportunity to put something back in. I'm a barrister in the UK and today I had the great news that my 189 application (and my partner's) has been granted. It's been quite a long haul. In fact, if there is a slower or more expensive way of getting a 189 visa I'd love to hear that story.

.....

 

 I hope you find this useful!

Australia Costs copy.xlsx

Thank you so much LawyerAbroad, I've been hunting everywhere for more information on this process and couldn't find anything!
My husband and I are looking to move to Australia and re-qualify in QLD. We are in a slightly different position in that my husband is a NZ citizen and we're doing the spouse visa route (largely because of the hassle of the 189 - looking at your post this was the right choice!), but as we're in for a long wait for my visa anyway I was hoping to get the ball rolling with re-qualification in the meantime. We may end up getting the assessment while still in the UK and study part-time while already in Australia. 

Having trawled through the Uniform Principles, I was starting to think we might be able to satisfy some of the "Experienced Practitioner" requirements by providing evidence of our experience to date - is this what you did? I've managed to track down detailed course descriptions for most of my courses which, on my reading of the Principles, covers many of the requirements but upon reading your posts it seems the relevant Board is looking for more information. I appreciate each application is subject to its own assessment and depends on the individual's experience not just PQE, but with your 10 years at the bar vs our 5yr PQE in private practice, I'm not filled with much hope for any exemption! What advice would you give in terms of evidence to support our experience?

On 21/11/2018 at 08:41, selfhelp said:

Also, how did you find distance learning whilst maintaining a full time job as a barrister (I'm assuming that you continued to work) Did you find the exam/course challenging or was it relatively manageable to complete within the timeframe that you did? 

I'd be interested to know your response to selfhelp's question above? 

I know we won't get away without any study (we're Scottish qualified so will definitely need to study Equity & Trusts). Were you free to pick any Australian university for the studies, or were you restricted to the state you were looking to get admitted to? The QLD LPAB guidance lists about 6-7 universities and I'm finding it difficult to find fees for single-course study, so your spreadsheet was very useful even as an indicator. Bond University was the only university with published fees and it's looking like $5k per course - as Scottish solicitors we could be studying up to 5 courses each so that's $50k right there!

Might just re-train to be an accountant.