torn

26 minutes ago, snifter said:

The spouse visa requirements are silly and over the top IMHO and have stopped many a couple from moving. Often where the sponsor is female and perhaps has not been the main earner due to taking time out for having kids. It makes it very hard to make the move back for many.

I have experienced the school system in England for 15 or so years through my working with kids. Tbh I much prefer the Aus system to date. The UK system, well, I'll talk English system, while certain universities are lauded and of course lots of kids leave school with amazing GCSE results, I found myself time and time again questioning the system that produces those results. I know the system is played and flawed. I am not naive enough to think it doesn't go on here too in its own way. Overall, as someone who has an interest and who has seen many kids go through the English system, I'd take the Aus one over it. 

Good to know about the education system over there. It can definitely be played and the system is flawed over here but not to the same extent. I went to private school in Sydney and TBH am not that keen for my kids to go through the same system. It was an all girls cookie cutter school which I am sure suited lots but was very results driven and not really great for fostering divergent/ innovative thinkers. As far as I can tell, not much has changed. The Sydney private school circuit is pretty toxic. However, my cousin went to an elite school in the UK and it was much worse than my experiences in Sydney. There also doesn't seem to be the same emphasis put on what university you went to here. Yes, it's great to have got your degree through a G8 uni but if you didn't, you wouldn't expect to be at any real disadvantage at the end of the day. I think australia is still more of a level playing field in that regard but we'll see what happens when university deregulation bites hard. 

37 minutes ago, snifter said:

It's a tough one if you react to the heat. We are in Adelaide and yes it can get hot, stinking hot sometimes but usually it's shorter periods of time and not long runs of high temps. It's a dry climate on the gulf and suits us. I hate the 35C plus days much as anyone else but tbh find I get all my things done, just earlier or later in the day. And if I am working then it makes no difference anyways other than the drive to work and back. 

What I love about here is the access to the coast and beaches that we use lots in the summer, especially the evenings to cool off. And the city is lovely. Decent aircon helps in the heat. It has a pretty chilly winter on occasion and the odd frost in the foothills but it's not been freezing by any means. But it's still clearly winter. 

I couldn't live in Qld with the humidity. We did consider Melbourne but in the end the cost of property there and the possible long co,,ute from what we could afford to any work we might have was the breaker. 

Agree on the humidity front. I did that growing up in Sydney and that's nowhere near as bad as QLD but it was still pretty sticky and nasty in a school uniform. We are considering Melbourne which is actually cheaper to rent than here in Canberra! We would rent out our place here and rent in Melbourne. 

40 minutes ago, Toots said:

....................  as long as you can find employment.

I think Tassie would be great if it weren't for this. My business is mainland and so is husband's. If not, Tassie would definitely be the silver bullet solution. I am a little hesitant about prospects for the kids too. I have friends who grew up in Tassie and they loved it but haven't returned (even if they wanted to) because naturally the opportunities are OS/ mainland. 

1 minute ago, Skani said:

If the OP is struggling with the heat of a Canberra summer then Perth and Brisbane are going to be uncomfortable too.

Yes the joys of living in a hot country with heat intolerance  

7 minutes ago, newjez said:

I don't think I could like in Canberra. It's like Milton Keynes.

If you wanted to come to the UK with an extended holiday in mind, the exchange rate is in your favour.

Kids are a good age too, as once they hit high school it is a completely different ball game. My youngest is twelve, and they are already picking their GCSE language course.

Alternatively - you have Perth or Brisbane - I've heard Melbourne property is ridiculous stm.

Yes I feel like it's a now or never situation as my 8 year old will soon become too old to move I think. I like Brisbane but it's too humid and hot for me and Perth is just too far away from anything (sorry to those who live in and love Perth :)) Melbourne I think is slightly more affordable than Sydney (not by much though) but at least doesn't have the humidity. It seems to have ridiculous heatwaves but they break unlike here in Canberra where it's just never ending now. 

3 minutes ago, Quoll said:

Hi fellow Canberran!

 Honestly don’t think there is a magic answer unfortunately. If you can afford the visas and if the kids are young enough and if you choose your U.K. spot wisely you could have an absolute ball but it only takes one of you to be miserable and all the questioning will start again - it’s sort of a curse of the expat, once you’ve moved you never totally belong anywhere, especially when the going gets tough and the odious comparison of the “stressful” now with the “idyllic” then is always going to lead to overthinking what you’ve got and wishing you had something else.

Personally, I find Canberra hard to beat (if you have to live in Australia) but where I am now in Cambridge is much better for me (have lost 50kg because now I can get out and walk in the countryside and the weather around here is perfect for me - I hate the heat).  I know I will be returning to Canberra when my dad dies but now the care of him is becoming entrapping and even I, who had come to loathe Australia, can view a return to Canberra with Some equanimity rather than throwing up at the thought. (I’m not good at having my wings clipped!)

It may all be a moot point for you - you (as the sponsor) will have to demonstrate an income of £18.5k plus an amount for each child. Or have a savings income of £65k plus an amount for each child. Your kids should be fine at that age. I’ve been impressed by the schools around here that I have seen and my mates have kids or grandkids in and reports from returnees suggest that they’re good at helping kids catch up which, after a few years in Canberra schools they’re likely to need.

Good luck with your decision, I do know how you are probably feeling and if you can afford the adventure it’d be a good one to have.  Good luck!

Yes, it's the heat I struggle with mainly although at least Canberra is dry unlike Sydney's humidity. At the moment it's over 32 degrees every day and will be for the next week at least and we've already had a hot December. Cambridge just sounds amazing to me at the moment as I sit huddled under a fairly useless air conditioner!  Those requirements for the visa are difficult. I am self employed and run my own business over here so I am not sure whether that would qualify in their eyes as a viable income source. The loose plan was to expand to the UK but that won't work if I have to go first and leave husband and kids here. My daughter, 6, just wouldn't cope . I do love the adventure aspect of it. 

59 minutes ago, simmo said:

If you crave culture then most of Austrailia is lacking, whilst the UK has it in spades.  Without even trying the UK has culture everywhere.  The Scenery (urban and rural) is unbeatable, I drive through London and sometimes, just park up and look around awe-inspired. 

Your kids are a good age to move too.  The stumbling block is the extended family, there is a primal urge to be close to family, you may not know it;s there but it is (unless you are an emotional dessert  

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

Yes, even though I don't have much family over here as I am first generation australian, the kids have a pretty large extended family on my husband's side which they seem pretty attached to. It could be difficult to explain to them later down the track why we took them away from that in their formative years. Maybe just some long holidays to the UK will have to do!

1 hour ago, snifter said:

I think part of your problem is probably living in Canberra. If you become disenchanted with the place you live, it can, will, eventually start to set your mind to longing for elsewhere or looking enviously at places others live and things they are doing. Being bored and frustrated with the place you live isn't ideal and you may find a move elsewhere in Aus is worth considering but it may still not solve all your woes and niggles. Only you know if you can get on with life in Aus and learn to cope with them, rather than letting them overtake you. 

 

 

 

This. 

I think you might have hit the nail on the head. Thanks for your response. It has really helped to dim the rose tinted glasses. We haven't been happy in Canberra for quite a while and I have no desire to return to Sydney having grown up there so I think we need to cast the net a bit further in Oz/ NZ and see where might work down here. The points you made have really resonated. I know that the proximity to Europe is not as easy to put into practice as it is on paper. We also have friends who live in London who have told us about the fines implemented by the school system which I can understand in a way but also can see the additional strain they put on parents who are already juggling many balls. Also good to hear a take on the UK school system as I am pretty disenchanted with the system here so I guess it's no better over there, in fact it sounds worse. 

The spouse visa requirements have changed so much since we last applied which I wasn't aware of. It really is very difficult I can see to get a spouse over there and it looks now like it is a very stressful process. Funnily enough, my husband has a US passport and it seems it's much easier to get the equivalent to the spouse visa for the States than it is to get him into the UK. 

34 minutes ago, calNgary said:

Just a few things i would be thinking about if in your shoes..

Have you all been to the UK lately, especially in winter time for an extended period (as in more than a couple of weeks)? 

If your hubby could get a visa would he and the girls want to move away from family and friends?

Have you looked at the work front for either of you over there ?.

I really feel for you but would suggest a visit over if you have not yet been, i have been back twice this last 12mths for family reasons and had spent the 10 years prior here in QLD, its changed massively since i lived there and although not necessarily somewhere i would want to settle and rise my children it does have a lot of good things going for it, just not enough to make me want to move back. Choosing the correct area to move to could make it or break it for you, the thing we found before mving to Aus  was lots of the areas we would have possibly tried just didnt have the work prospects for us and didnt tick all the boxes when we actually visited.

Good luck ,i would really try to get over for a holiday / reccie, yes it will cost a whack but so does migrating, not settling and coming back again,lol

Cal x

Thanks Cal. We haven't been back since our last 18 month stint which was ten years ago. You've raised some really good questions. It's very easy in the height of mid summer to gloss over the reality of the long, cold months. I think we should go back for a couple of months at least at the end of this year and 'do' some winter time as we've never done that with kids before which, of course, will put a different perspective on it too. Parkas, gloves and rain are just as tedious when dealing with kids as sunscreen, hats and sunburn I guess. Good also to hear from people who are actively choosing not to raise their kids over there. Makes me feel a little more at peace about my own kids being raised here. 

One thing on my mind is their future access to the UK but, as with everything else, it can all change so quickly. They don't have UK passports as I am British by descent but I guess we can only hope that they will still be able to apply under the ancestry visa category when the time comes around (if the want to go over). 

Thanks again.

1 hour ago, Toots said:

I never liked very hot weather in summer either so can sympathise with you though they are tolerable if you are near the sea for the breezes and a refreshing swim.

Melbourne summers can be really hot too.  I was there one Christmas and it reached 40 degrees.  When you are fed up and a bit depressed it is very easy to look back on happy times through rose tinted glasses.  Perhaps you can go to the UK for an extended holiday though not easy to do with children.  

I live in Tasmania now and the climate suits me very well.  I'm on the north west coast and it doesn't get too hot or too cold.

Hope you find a way to feel happier.

 

 

Tassie sounds lovely. 

5 minutes ago, Skani said:

I can empathise with you as I was born in Australia  to an English mother and grew up surrounded by many relatives and friends who were British post war migrants so have never felt completely Australian.  I can also identify with your climate problems.  I was born in northern NSW but moved to Tasmania as a child because my mother couldn't stand the heat up there.  She was much, much happier after we moved.  My father, who had spent several years in the UK during the war,  also appreciated the cooler climate and never wished to return to the mainland.

However, before getting too misty eyed about the UK, have you explored the obstacles to getting your Australian spouse permission to live in the UK?  I know you will have citizenship by descent but it it now very difficult for a non EU spouse to live there.  Certain income and/or capital levels are now required in this situation.

 

That's a good point Skani. My husband had a spouse visa ten years ago (we spent 18 months in Oxford) and it was easy to get. Does that mean it's harder since then? He runs his own business so shouldn't have much problem proving financial viability. I'll have to follow that up. 

1 hour ago, newjez said:

I was similar. I thought I would identify with the British, but soon realised they are culturally different, although similar on the surface. Still, I have lived amongst them for twenty years and they are very welcoming.

I don't really belong anywhere, but I can live anywhere.

I like this idea. I think I need to use that mantra!

Hi all

I am a first generation australian, born and bred, to British parents. My dad was originally from Yorkshire and my Mum is from London. I grew up mainly on the Northern Beaches in Sydney which I didn't like at all as it's a bit of a cultural void. We spent a couple of years when I was 8-10 living on Guernsey and I have such great memories from this time. I think I actually felt like I belonged for the first time. Then I was ripped out and put back in Australia which I haven't really questioned until recently. 

DH is Australian, as are my two kids (6 and 8) and all their extended family (grandparents, cousins etc) but we don't see that much of extended family to be honest.  DH and the kids love living here but we all hate the heat and summer is just becoming almost intolerable. I have health issues (heat intolerance) which mean I am pretty much housebound during summer and unable to look after the kids and take them outside to do normal summer type things. We live in Canberra, which doesn't help, as it's searingly hot in summer, very cold in winter and, on the whole, pretty boring. We are thinking of moving to Melbourne, but I my daughter has bad eczema and I am not sure the longer, darker winters will do her any good and it doesn't help with my heat issues. 

I have this yearning to move back to the UK though and it's a scratch that is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore. I would love my kids to experience life over there and explore Europe and I love the idea of not having a searingly hot summer with blazing sun and blue skies (it becomes tedious to say the least). I love overcast weather and rain and European history. As my kids get older I am just so much more aware of how isolated Australia is and I'm not sure I like it any more. I feel like I have completely fallen out of love with the country, the expense, the climate and the education system. 

I don't know whether I am just seeing the UK through rose tinted glasses just because I am not happy with where I am. I try to convince myself that the winter is long and grey and would cause eczema problems with my daughter but I still feel this pull. I have always identified more strongly with being British than Australian but it hasn't bothered me as much as it does now. I just look back on my childhood and think that I have always felt like I was in the wrong place. On the flipside, all my old friends are here and DH's family and I don't know whether I could actually see myself growing old in the UK without that support. 

In short, I am unsettled and torn.