Nick UK

Dear all

My proposed employer recently had the Nomination stage refused due to LMT. Apparently they don't tend to actually advertise positions formally, rather preferring to fill roles based on word of mouth or recommendations. Given this fact, will it be basically be impossible for them to satisfy the LMT requirements and as such not be able to achieve a positive nomination?

Best regards

Nick

Dear George

Thank you and yes agreed on the 186.

My employer wouldn't have attended any migration roadshows as this is the first time they have sponsored anyone. I suspect the reason for the refused 457 nomination was due to the LMT evidence/documents not being submitted at the same time as the nomination. I know that some/many nominations are being refused on this basis as opposed the evidence itself not being satisfactory.

PS: in practical terms how does an employer show they have a genuine need for a paid employee to fill a skilled position? Do they simply have to state that they do?

Hi Mark

Thank you!

Dear agents

My proposed employer has been told by two Migration Agents that Labour Market Testing is a requirement of the 186 Visa. Based on my extensive research this is simply not true. To my understanding, Labour Market Testing is only a requirement of the 457 as of 2013.

Whilst the employer must have 'a genuine need for a paid employee to fill a skilled position' on the 186 - this is not the same as the Labour Market Testing requirements on a 457.

Please can anyone clarify?

Thank you in advance

Nick

Raul, just read both your posts and thank you for your advice. Re the 457 Labour Market Testing, it is indeed a requirement. When I said 'not enough' I simply meant the Nomination failed due to the Labour Market Testing element so I presumed not enough evidence had been provided to satisfy DIBP. I have asked the company to gain some clarification from DIBP on this though.

I agree that the 'eligible to become' is my only hope re the 186 License matter given my experience and skills assessment plus a possible email from the Licensing body, I'm hopeful that some allowance will be given to either make the trip to become Licensed and the VISA to be subject to that or to do so once I arrive within a time frame. If not, then unless I choose to get Licensed before I apply (which I'm unlikely to risk doing given the cost), this VISA just isn't an option for me given my occupation.

Anyway, thank you all for your replies.

Good point Suzukiscottie thank you

I hope you are right, we've already had a nightmare with the 457 being refused because the company didn't show enough Labour Market Testing and potentially this oddity on the 186. Perhaps different skill level occupations have different requirement so what's true for an electrician may not be true for something else - maybe I'm just thinking aloud. Anyway I'm going to suggest we proceed on the 186 Sponsorship, then if that's accepted I will apply for the 186 and hope for the best. Perhaps write a letter showing my correspondence with REISA that I intend to enrol as soon as I arrive. I'll let you know how things go!

Thanks all for your time and input, I appreciate it.

Hi AJ,

The course required in SA is very easy and I can enrol while in the UK but in order to complete it I need to travel to Australia. I'm not worried about being able to successfully complete the course and get the Licence, I just don't want to spend thousands doing so before I know I have a VISA. That's the issue really

Hi Nemisis, I agree it's odd. Perhaps for some occupations the mandatory licensing position is more flexible, I don't know. The whole position as clarified by DIBP makes no sense to me whatsoever, it's absurd to suggest I would risk flights, course fees etc to get a Licence prior to even applying for the VISA. But at the same time I have been told precisely this by DIBP in writing and over the phone so am left in my current predicament. I am sure there is a solution and perhaps if I do apply they will revert to say that once I gain my Licence they will approve the VISA, I don't know and it's a lot of money even to apply for the VISA until I know for sure they won't just refuse it because I don't have a licence. Maybe I am wrong but if that's the case then the person at DIBP who sent me the email is also wrong. See this section from their website which is extremely clear that a skills assessment is not enough on its own IF your chosen occupation requires licence or registration:

[h=3]Skills and qualifications (must hold at time of application)[/h]

• Evidence that your skills have been assessed as suitable by the relevant assessing authority for your occupation and this assessment was not obtained for the purposes of a subclass 485 visa as these types of skills assessments are not considered full skills assessments for permanent skilled migration purposes. A relevant skills assessment is different to being registered with an appropriate regulatory body.
  
• Your curriculum vitae (CV).
  
• Certified copies of all qualifications and work experience (for example, employment references).
  
• Registration, licensing or professional membership, if required for your occupation in the state or territory in which you will be working. Documents from the relevant Australian registration and licensing authorities that show you hold, or will be able to meet, necessary registration and licensing requirements. The documents must specify both of the following:
  
  • the type of registration or licensing held
    
  • the name and contact details for the registration or licensing authority.
    

   

   

On the 457 they allow you a grace period to gain your licence (I have this confirmed over email) but on the 186 as a PR they expect you to have everything in place at time of lodgement if your chosen occupation requires mandatory licence.

The whole experience is beyond exhausting and I think perhaps they don't really want people coming over on this occupation - maybe that is the reason.

Bungo, yes I agree we tend to be going round in circles so please don't post further. I understand what you are saying and can obviously read. For some reason you don't seem able to comprehend the difference in how we are interpreting the word 'assessed' -- i made it very clear how I was interpreting it but you don't seem to able to see this. It's ok I really don't want to get into an argument with someone who thinks Labour Market Testing is not required on a 457.

Thank you for your input and time spent it is appreciated. The email directly from Immigration is extremely clear and contradicts what you are saying. It is for this reason why there is an element of confusion. Obviously, it doesn't make sense - that is the whole point of my original post.

Bungo,

I appreciate all your posts, let me say that to avoid any misunderstanding.

Regarding Labour Market Testing - please don't make statements which are completely factually wrong. Labour Market Testing IS a requirement of the Nomination stage of the 457 VISA process. If you do your research and actually check, you will see this quite clearly. The rules changed in 2013 so please check your facts before you make posts like that.

As for the Licence issue - I agree with you that it SHOULD be as you state but you have not read the section correctly. It does NOT say 'you need to be licensed OR have a skills assessment'. I have no idea where you get this from. It says: ...'you must hold any mandatory registration, license or professional membership, or you must already be fully assessed as suitable by the relevant body.

You have chosen to interpret '... assessed as suitable by the relevant body' as meaning 'having a skills assessment'. That's fine, I agree that makes total sense. However, I'm afraid this is not what DIBP mean at all. They mean if the relevant LICENSING body state you are suitable then fine. VETASESSES having nothing to do with Licensing so a skills assessment doesn't legally allow you do your job in Australia - only a Licence can do this.

Thanks again for all the comments, they are much appreciated.

Hi VeryStormy

I would be extremely happy to be wrong! A recent email from DIBP clarified any doubt, see below. I understand how you are interpreting the section I pasted from DIBP website in my earlier post but I don't agree that simply having a positive skills assessment equates to not requiring mandatory licensing at the time of lodgement. DIBP are quite clear on this on their website and their email to me below. If you go through the link I posted I think you will see what I am saying. My occupation requires licensing as mandatory so having a skills assessment doesn't allow me to practice real estate in Australia, all it does is tick a box on the document checklist re a skills assessment.

'Dear Mr,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Please note that if your occupation requires Australian registration or

licensing you may be required to obtain it in Australia before your visa

can be approved.

According to 186 visa document checklist please see requirements for

registration and licensing:

Skills and qualifications

Registration, licensing or professional membership, if required for

your occupation in the state or territory in which you will be

working. Documents from the relevant Australian registration and

licensing authorities that show you hold, or will be able to meet,

necessary registration and licensing requirements. The documents

must specify both of the following:

the type of registration or licensing held

the name and contact details for the registration or licensing

authority.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/186-/Employer-Nomination-Scheme-(subclass-186)-applicant-document-checklist

Hi Bungo

I understand where you are coming from but believe you have mis-interpreted the requirements set out by DIPB.

A skills assessment and mandatory licensing are two completely separate issues. One has zero bearing on the other - both are required. Yes, it says you must hold the licence or be assessed as suitable by the relevant body. However, that relates to Licensing not Skills Assessment. The relevant body for licensing is REISA (Real Estate Institute of South Australia) and it is only it who can provide a licence or confirm the candidate is suitable. They cannot confirm a candidate is suitable unless they either have a licence or have enough RPL points to have one by default. VET ASSESS cannot comment on any issue relating to mandatory licensing, their role is purely skills assessment. Furthermore, unless the occupation is exempt, which mine is not, ALL occupations requiring a mandatory licence must have it in place at the time of application. This is stated quite clearly. What is odd is that on a 457 they give you time to get the licence and grant you the VISA on the basis you will get it later.

Yes of course the 457 is easier than a PR VISA but the issue of Labour Market Testing is not relevant for a PR application.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Hi Bungo

I already hold a positive skills assessment so agree with you that should be enough to satisfy DIBP that I would be able to meet the mandatory licence requirements once I enrol and complete the necessary course. However, the relevant licensing body (in this case REISA) cannot state you are assessed as suitable simply based on a skills assessment as by law one must have an Australian Real Estate licence to practice real estate in Australia! My prospective employer is taking advice from a migration agent as we tried the 457 route but their nomination got refused due to not enough Labour Market Testing. Hence we are now exploring the 186 or 187 route. Ironically, on the 457 DIBP grant you the VISA and allow you time upon entry to Australia to gain your Licence. But on the 186 they insist you have it at time of application? Very odd.

Hi Nemisis

This is a requisite of the VISA - http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/186-

[h=3]Who could get this visa[/h]You might be able to get this visa if you:

• have been nominated by an approved Australian employer within the six months before you apply
• are under the age of 50 at the time of application, unless you are exempt
  
• have the required skills and qualifications for the position (at time of application lodgement you must have the required skills and qualifications for the position you have been nominated for – you must hold any mandatory registration, license or professional membership, or you must already be fully assessed as suitable by the relevant body)
  
• have appropriate English language skills (at the time of application lodgement), unless you are exempt
  
• meet health and character requirements
  
• meet the requirements of the stream in which you apply.
  

Hi all

I have a bit of a chicken and egg situation regarding the 186 VISA. My occupation, Real Estate Representative, requires a Licence in order to practice in Australia. This in itself is not a problem as I can simply get the Licence once I move (and in fact can begin studying while in the UK). However, the VISA requires I hold the Licence at the time of application which is odd as you are not allowed to gain a Licence until you are in Australia? When I spoke to DIBP they simply suggested I perhaps fly to Australia on a tourist VISA, study for 3 months or so and gain the Licence, then fly back to the UK and then lodge the application. This seems extremely counter intuitive and a complete waste of time and money as DIBP could quite easily decline the VISA application for another reason. It would make more sense to make the VISA subject to gaining the Licence or give a time frame to gain the Licence prior to entering the country or starting work etc? I really cannot see the logic in their advice and struggle to accept there isn't a more credible and sensible answer. It would end up costing nearly $20,000 AUD to make the trip from the UK, pay for the course, get the Licence, accommodation etc to gain an Australian Licence for a job in a country you haven't even applied for a VISA yet? This makes no sense to me at all.

If anyone has any advice I would be grateful.

Best regards

Nick

Here here is the link:

https://www.vetassess.com.au/skills-assessment-for-migration/general-occupations/nominate-an-occupation

[h=3]Real Estate Representative(ANZSCO Code 612115)[/h]

This occupation requires a qualification assessed as comparable to the educational level of an Australian Qualifications Framework (AQF) Certificate IV, in a field highly relevant to the nominated occupation.

In addition to this, applicants must have at least one year of post-qualification employment at an appropriate skill level completed in the last five years in a field which is highly relevant to the nominated occupation. If employment is not post-qualification, then three additional years of highly relevant employment are required.

If the qualification is not in a highly relevant field, two years of employment at an appropriate skill level, completed in the last five years which is highly relevant to the nominated occupation is required.

If the applicant holds a qualification assessed as comparable to the educational level of an Australian Qualifications Framework (AQF) Certificate III in a field highly relevant to the nominated occupation, then three years of highly relevant employment completed in the last five years is required.

A positive assessment of both qualifications and employment is required for a positive Skills Assessment Outcome.

My occupation is Real Estate Representative and it clearly states 1 year post qual employment if qual in highly relevant field.

Re the other points you mentioned. Yes I have a formal positive assessment from V with the correct occupation code. In addition I have another 'validated, assessment dated 2015 with no expiry date on it. However the original assessment did have an expiry on it. So the tricky part is whether I need an updated assessment given the assessed years of employment in the original outcome letter are no longer in the last 5 years. If you check the 'expired assessments' section on their website you will see why the correct course of action for me is simply not clear .

The important issues are:

 

1. Your existing assessment should confirm that you have a qualification which meet the requirements for work in the nominated occupation/position.

2. The six digit ANZSCO code for the nominated occupation must be specifically mentioned in the assessment notice.

3. You have documentary evidence (eg pay records) which confirms that you have completed at least 36 months of (full time equivalent) relevant occupational experience since obtaining your qualification. This experience does not have to be continuous but must all be at the appropriate skill level. Location (onshore or offshore) of occupational experience is not relevant.

 

The legislation and policy documents do not refer to any exceptions to the three year work experience requirement. I'd be interested to follow this up if you provide your reference to it on the Vetassess website.

 

As to whether your particular assessment meets the requirements for 186 you should seek confirmation from Vetassess and/or seek professional advice from a registered migration agent.

Here here is the link:

https://www.vetassess.com.au/skills-assessment-for-migration/general-occupations/nominate-an-occupation

My occupation is Real Estate Representative and it clearly states 1 year post qual employment if qual in highly relevant field.

Re the other points you mentioned. Yes I have a formal positive assessment from V with the correct occupation code. In addition I have another 'validated, assessment dated 2015 with no expiry date on it. However the original assessment did have an expiry on it. So the tricky part is whether I need an updated assessment given the assessed years of employment in the original outcome letter are no longer in the last 5 years. If you check the 'expired assessments' section on their website you will see why the correct course of action for me is simply not clear .

The important issues are:

 

1. Your existing assessment should confirm that you have a qualification which meet the requirements for work in the nominated occupation/position.

2. The six digit ANZSCO code for the nominated occupation must be specifically mentioned in the assessment notice.

3. You have documentary evidence (eg pay records) which confirms that you have completed at least 36 months of (full time equivalent) relevant occupational experience since obtaining your qualification. This experience does not have to be continuous but must all be at the appropriate skill level. Location (onshore or offshore) of occupational experience is not relevant.

 

The legislation and policy documents do not refer to any exceptions to the three year work experience requirement. I'd be interested to follow this up if you provide your reference to it on the Vetassess website.

 

As to whether your particular assessment meets the requirements for 186 you should seek confirmation from Vetassess and/or seek professional advice from a registered migration agent.

Please see this link:

https://www.vetassess.com.au/skills-assessment-for-migration/general-occupations/nominate-an-occupation

There are other references on their website which I will have to find when I get home. Perhaps for Points Based applications it is slightly different. My understanding was that if your qual is not in a highly relevant field then the post qual experience had to be 3 years. I will try to find this and send in later today.

The important issues are:

 

1. Your existing assessment should confirm that you have a qualification which meet the requirements for work in the nominated occupation/position.

2. The six digit ANZSCO code for the nominated occupation must be specifically mentioned in the assessment notice.

3. You have documentary evidence (eg pay records) which confirms that you have completed at least 36 months of (full time equivalent) relevant occupational experience since obtaining your qualification. This experience does not have to be continuous but must all be at the appropriate skill level. Location (onshore or offshore) of occupational experience is not relevant.

 

The legislation and policy documents do not refer to any exceptions to the three year work experience requirement. I'd be interested to follow this up if you provide your reference to it on the Vetassess website.

 

As to whether your particular assessment meets the requirements for 186 you should seek confirmation from Vetassess and/or seek professional advice from a registered migration agent.

Hi Ricco

Thank you for your reply.

It stated that 1 year of post qualification in highly relevant field was acceptable, is this not the case?

My original positive assessment had a 2 year expiry which expired in 2015 so that year I made a successful application to VETASSESS to have it 'validated' in 2015 which I have on file. However, my confusion is that the years of employment assessed on the original assessment were 2010-2012. Given the years assessed are not now within the last 5 years (well 2010 isn't but 2011 and 2012 are) do I need a new assessment? I gained the qualification in highly relevant field in 2012 and combined with my 10 year employment experience received the positive assessment. But I am now unsure what to do or if I need another assessment or not. I left my job in Sept 2015 in order to emigrate so if 3 years post qualification experience is needed then it's a bit close for comfort. My understanding from VETASSESS' own website is only 1 year post qual experience is required if the qual is in highly relevant field which mine is, as is my employment history.

Last thing I want is to go for a new assessment if I don't need to.

What do you think?

Hi Nick

 

For 186 you must establish that your qualifications, in combination with your previous experience has been assessed by the appropriate authority (eg Vetassess) as suitable for the occupation to which the nomination applies, and that you are eligible for any applicable State registrations and/or licences.

 

In addition you need to establish (in your 186 visa application) that you have worked at least three years full time in the nominated occupation since obtaining your qualification/s.

 

The SRG35 form is used to request a Points Advice Letter (including updated evidence if applicable) and hence is only relevant if you are applying for a points based visa under the General Skilled Migration program such as subclass 189 for example. Points have no relevance in 186 visa applications.

 

Skills assessments for 186 purposes must be current in that they can be up to 3 years old if no earlier expiry date was specified on the original assessment. Rather than lodge a SRG35 you may need to lodge a request to Vetassess to have your original skills assessment re-issued or re-validated ( see https://www.vetassess.com.au/skills-assessment-for-migration/general-occupations/renewal-expired-skills-assessment )

 

Details of relevant work experience completed since you became qualified in your occupation must be lodged with your 186 visa application and do not need to be validated by Vetassess.

Hi everyone!

I have a positive but expired skills assessment (because the positively assessed employment is no longer in the last 5 years) and so would like to include additional years of employment for assessment. I have been advised and it seems clear from VETASSESS' website that the correct form in this scenario is SRG35.

However, what is confusing is that the Explanatory Notes of the SRG35 state the form should NOT be used if the applicant intends to migrate under the Employer Nomination Scheme. Having said that, on the same page of Explanatory Notes it states that VETASSESS undertakes assessments for all VISA classes including those under the ENS?! This makes no sense. My Skill Level 3 occupation requires a VETASSESS skills assessment as does the 186 ENS VISA so does anyone know if I should still use the SRG35 to have my additional and more recent years of employment assessed? Bear in mind I already have a positive skills assessment so a brand new assessment is not required according to VETASSESS' own website. So it's all very confusing and contradictory. I've emailed VETASSESS and spoken to them but they haven't as yet answered my question properly so I thought I would try here in the meantime!

If anyone knows the answer please share!

Thanks

Nick