woodymcfc

Gary,

how are things your way mate its been a while: what about your lot im speechless mate after last weekend, also what about the Rovers its doom & doom for them

 

arthur

Hi Arthur, all good here thanks, how are you? I managed to get a start with a company without my license, they dont seem to be able to get hold of maintenance sparks with experience like I have over here in WA, good news for my job prospects......lets not talk about the derby, witout being biased I think the better team lost on that day, still a long way to go .....

It sounds really crazy what one has to experience just to be allowed to work in their field. As I can see I'm going to have a lot of "fun" in AUS to find a job and support my dependents.

 

Derren7 was somewhat optimistic about finding a job with el. fitter license. Why did you put so much effort into getting mechanic? Is it your experience that fitters are in a disadvantage in the job market?

 

I sent an email to TRA to query if my previous assessment from them will somehow help me in the whole process but no answer so far. I'm thinking about going to SA where is should be easier to get our license and then to try to transfer it to NSW (Sydney). But I don't know how doable it is.

 

Btw, I have no idea about the "working pressure.." , I guess I'm completely incompetent. I shouldn't have messed around with industrial automation all my life and instead I should have done some TIG welding or whatever the gas is used for..

The main reason why I wanted the mechanics ARTC was because you are able to sit a 2 week course that refreshes a lot of the stuff you did when you were an apprentice. When I sat the fitters license exam in WA you had no course you just turned up on the day and were confronted with questions like I mentioned. I rang energysafety to ask why we have to sit the exam with no availability to what the exam consists of, his answer was because energysafety dont have the funds for a course for a license that not many people apply for !!!!!!!!!!!!

Also if I decide to go down the install route then I have the license !!!!! I was told by the same person at energysafety, who by the way was clued up, not like a lot of administrative people you deal with in this process, that the fitters license exam was aimed at people who have been involved in a Navy or mining apprenticeship !!!!! the whole process really is a cock up and if Australia do really have a shortage of skilled tradies these organisations need a right good kick up the arse !!!

Derren7 was correct, you will get a job in WA with an electrical license restricted to fitting work only, thats all you need for us less intelligent maintenance sparks !!!!!!

Thanks Darren for your response, now it's much clearer.

 

It's ridiculous that I'll have to present the same documents for TRA again. They must have my previous correspondence on my files. I had hard time to chase my employers and schools even before and now I really don't know if can make it again.

 

There was a note about something called "PEER" some pages back in this thread and possible faster alternative to get A grade. Do you know what it stands for?

 

I guess there in no way I could start the process already now when I'm still offshore? Those 4 months waiting for TRA assessment result seems really long when you realise that you need to support dependants.

 

By the way, in the TRA form isn't electrician special class anymore, only mechanic or fitter. Do you think I can try ticking off mechanic although I was assessed as special class (maintenance)? I couldn't find any official info explaining what is what and some kind of comparative table.

When you apply for your ARTC it isnt the same form as for your skills assessment from TRA, thats why you see Electrical Mechanic and Electrical fitter. I am too from the same background, maintenance PLC's, SCADA, VSD's etc but although I didnt do too much install work I was capable, like most sparks with our background (17th edition regs certified).

If you look at my previous posts on here you will realise what trouble I went through to obtain my mechanics ARTC and last month I was awarded that so now my ARTC says both electrcial fitter & electrical mechanic. sorry to say but You WILL NOT be awarded with your mechanics ARTC if you were assessed as an electrician special class. If you manage to convince TRA that the majority of your work was installation then you may get the opportunity to sit a trade test. This is not easy, questions that you get no preparation for and although the college tutor assessed me as a competent electrician, TRA thought otherwise. I did not get the required mark on sections of my trade test...you needed to get 75% on each section and for example there were 2 questions on lighting, I got one wrong therefore I failed that section !!!!!! The college couldn't believe it and were on my side but even they said TRA are impossible to deal with !!!! I had to do several courses in lighting, checking & testing etc....and with this I then applied again to TRA which is when I was awarded the Mechanics title.

I stuck with the process as I knew what I was capable of, in total, from first applying it took just under 18 months to gain my Mechanics ARTC so now I am able to sit the ETL course in WA (JAN 2013) this will get me the unrestricted license. If you read other posts of mine you will realise that I wanted the 2 weeks course that the mechanics ARTC allows you to sit. Unless you know the answer to questions like : what is the minimum working pressure of ox-acytelene gas? then you may struggle to get your electrical fitters license in WA !!!!!

Don't want to put a negative point on all this but I sent 2 statutory declarations, as worded above, sworn in a court of law and to be put it bluntly TRA still didn't believe my evidence. The organisation really is a law upon itself !!!

They wouldn't send my OH's out without evidence that we lived there (like a bank statement or rental agreement). My OH wanted his sent so he had it when we arrived.

This is true, I had to send a copy of my stamped passport with date of entry in for TRA to send out my ARTC.....

I have been offered 2 jobs since I have been here, the 1st one wants to know what's happening with the licensing, I had an interview with the director of the firm and he is well aware how pathetic the whole licensing registration is and why WA struggle to find good knowledgeable electricians.

The 2nd Job offer is coming back to me next week, they are a big international company who have taken on trades in the past on a supervised license until the unrestricted one was completed by the employee, hope this one comes off cause it really suits me with the shifts that are being offered.

When I called energysafe the girl I spoke with initially sounded like she didn't know her arse from her elbow. I knew more than what she is getting paid to know.

I only asked the next girl if there was any chance that I would be able to sit the trade test sooner elsewhere, my tone was polite because I dont believe you get anywhere shouting at people you want to do things for you ! The response was like I had just **** on her keyboard .... 'YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION, I WONT TELL YOU ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE AN APPLICATION IN BLAH BLAH BLAH' I explained that I have just arrived in the country and that the process with TRA has been going on since June of last year and if possible I would like to arrange my license sooner rather than later because I have a family to support, NOTHING not a' sorry buts its not possible' or 'I sympathise with your position but there's nothing that can be done' sweet FA...........I think I'm going to nominate her for customer relations employee of the year in WA Energysafe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you get anywhere with TRA and energysafe then you may be one of the lucky ones. Employers are aware of the problems here regarding licensing and only yesterday the quote of 'the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing' was used by one employer on the phone to me.

Like I said, when you arrive you will have at least a 4 week wait until energysafe process your application, that's if you have your ARTC through. Until you get this application accepted you will NOT be able to book onto a course, then the course availability is anyone's guess, you may be lucky and time it when there is a course available that week then you may not and the next available course may be in 2 months.

Goon luck, your gonna need it !!!! And i'm an optimist !!!!!!!

The plot thickens !!! arranged the 1 day trade test, for the 6th March !!!! cant get it any sooner....really is taking the piss now.. realistically could be at least another 14-16 weeks before i can enrol on the wiring course, and I'm here in Perth !!!! TRA received my initial application on the 7th June 2011, are they for real !!!!

Just to give you an update here's a couple of posts that i put up on another site..........

Ok I'm here now and I can give you an update on how frustrating the licensing registration is !!!! As you may or may not know, TRA have requested that I do a 1 day Trade test which I am hoping to organise on Monday (got the email letter with contact details on today). I got offered a job within 4 days of getting here on a decent wage working shifts, which I want. So as to not lose this opportunity I though I'd call energysafe (licensing dept.) and see if I could get a head start with the course at cet, not happening !!!! Energysafe will NOT tell you any details of where the course will be, how much it will be, who to contact UNTIL you fill out their application form to apply for a license !!!! When you post the application, I was told by energysafe, it will take 4 weeks, thats four weeks, until you get a response, until then I cannot book onto a course !!

I called into Jandakot CET just to have a word because I was in the area, they were very helpful but said that they dont have any available places on the course until APRIL anyhow !!! Although there are other places where you can do the course.

so in my position I may not be able to start work for another 2-3 months because of TRA and Energysafe. I must admit though that the people at TRA are quite helpful, they dont make the final decision on whether you are an electrician or not its the Local committee and they are supposedly meant to be made up of local buisness people in the trade.......which trade, I really am starting to wonder !!!!!!

BUT the sun is shining, the kids love it and my golf clubs will be here in another few weeks !!!!

well guess what, I have provided insufficient evidence, ****ing unbelievable !!!! Really there would be no more evidence that I could have supplied and I would challenge anyone who can provide more evidence !!!! I have provided sworn declarations in a court of law in front of a JP and they mean **** all to these so called trades committees....BUT not all is lost..................they have offered me the trade test, more money, to prove that I have been an electrician for over 20 years...............I am more than willing to sit this trade test, anyone know what it involves and where I will sit the test ?

Regards

Gary

Just got off the phone from TRA, got through straight away ! I can sit the trade test in Oz, 1 day basic stuff. It is something that the LTC are known to do, more money but if I pass looks like i'll get the mechanic cert. I can feel less stressed now over christmas !!!:goofy:

Thanks for your post Jonathan, I'm a bit further along now from the vetassess route, I initially got my skills assessed by TRA and then applied for my ARTC as electrical mechanic & fitter dual trade.....had to supply more evidence for the mechanic title which I did, photos, installation certs, stat dec's from me and manager, stat dec from an ex colleague in perth who is now electrical engineering manager, its unreal how much info I gave them !! The only thing that I can think of is that there is only 3 or 4 of us on maintenance who have the 2391 inspection & testing, I'm not one of them ! all the jobs we do, get signed off by one of these lads, purely a cost thing is the reason why the rest of us weren't sent on the course. Thats the only reason I can think of why they want me to do this trade test, not to worry, i emailed my ex colleague again this morning and he said there really is a shortage of maintenance sparks and I will definately get work no doubt about it !!

well guess what, I have provided insufficient evidence, ****ing unbelievable !!!! Really there would be no more evidence that I could have supplied and I would challenge anyone who can provide more evidence !!!! I have provided sworn declarations in a court of law in front of a JP and they mean **** all to these so called trades committees....BUT not all is lost..................they have offered me the trade test, more money, to prove that I have been an electrician for over 20 years...............I am more than willing to sit this trade test, anyone know what it involves and where I will sit the test ?

Regards

Gary

Hi woody,

Yeah, I agree with that. If I was back to square 1 again I would just go for it. How's your reapplication going by the way?

Regards Derren

Hi Derren,

I got a reply to the email I asked about the online tracking portal saying that my application will be assessed in December !!!!....this seems to me that they know about the problems with the portal but are doing FA about it !!! At least I know now that my application is being dealt with this month............

regards

Gary

Hi Woody,

The November guidelines appear to similar to the September guidelines. The Sept guidelines stated that you had to be "currently residing in Australia". When I emailed them at the time to query this they stated to me that as long as I showed proof of Australian residency then it would be OK. It doesn't ask for documentary proof of residing in Australia ie rates bill, utility bill, etc., only that you show a copy of the visa.

Also, in section 2.6.2 it alludes to the fact that you can pay the application fee from outside of Australia. Surely if your paying outside of Australia then it's reasonable to assume that you are applying outside of Australia.

Again, I could be wrong, but I reckon if you put an Australian address on the form then that would be sufficient for them to process the application.

Kind Regards Derren

It seems to be the thing then coming from TRA, confusion. The best advice I think we can give is " have a go at applying but if TRA say that you have to be in Australia then thats how it is !"

Hi guys,

I applied in Sept after the new guidelines were introduced. I know of at least 1 other person who did the same from the UK. On the application form I put an anticipated arrival date of November and the envelope had British stamps and air mail/par avion stickers on it so it would have been fairly obvious that I was applying from the UK.

 

Leccyman, did you provide a copy of your visa and/or grant letter showing proof of Australian residency and did you provide an Australian address on your application form.

 

Chilli, there are no other tests you need to do in the UK. After you have submitted your application to the TRA for an ARTC then they may require you to do a trades test if they're not satisfied with the evidence you have provided in your application.

 

All I can say to prospective applicants is make sure you provide an Australian address on your application form. I think this would be sufficient proof that you 'reside' in Australia.

Regards Derren

Hi Derren,

the latest criteria and guidelines are from November of this year which is when I was last in touch with TRA .

hi, we've just had an email from TRA to say that they won't process my OH application for electrical mechanic ARTC because we don't reside in Oz yet (we move on the 12 Jan). I was under the impression they would from posts i've read here so I've emailed them back to ask. Its a pain if we have to wait tll we arrive before they will start to process it which is what the email is saying. :arghh:

Unfortunately I think it may be the case that you now have to reside in Australia before TRA will look at your assessment. I believe the criteria has only recently changed due to the backlog of applicants, I spoke with a TRA assessor who did confirm this and said it was only fair that those waiting for their assessment already in Oz got seen to first .............

see the new guidelines from Nov 2011 here

2.4 ELIGIBILITY FOR AN AUSTRALIAN RECOGNISED TRADE CERTIFICATE

To be granted an ARTC, you must be able to demonstrate that you:

a) are an Australian Permanent Resident or Citizen, hold a New Zealand Passport or hold a visa that allows you to temporarily reside and work in your trade in Australia

b) reside in Australia

c) have sufficient English language skills to perform the work of the trade safely in Australia

d) have sufficient training and experience to meet the requirements of the Criteria and Guidelines and the Act

e) undertake all steps in the assessment process including, where applicable, a technical interview, trade test or other action requested by an LC

f) are currently capable of performing the work of your trade in Australia.

What's the difference between general and special class spark

Special class here

http://www.acacia-au.com/asco/4311-13.php or http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/occupations/e/electrician-special-class.htm

General here

http://www.acacia-au.com/asco/4311-11.php or http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/occupations/e/electrician-general.htm

I would think in the UK a general electrician is a commercial, industrial or domestic electrician who carries out the installation of cables, distribution boards etc....

A special class electrician is someone who works on more complex electrical stuff like plc's, vsd's etc.... BUT in my experience can and does do what a general electrician does. I have been employed at 3 factories since I left school just over 20 years ago and have done all the installation work that was required along with the maintenance of these factories, why TRA see things differently when it comes to awarding the ARTC I dont know ???? and why you cant get a unrestricted license with the experience, again is anyones guess ??????

Finally after months of posting on here we are now starting the process!!! YIPPEEE

 

So today I am tasked with writing to all the hubby's old employers to request references. Can anyone tell me if they have to write a long reference or just full the form in and then we pad out the application with the details of the type of work he has carried out and the tools he's used etc. Really don't know where to begin with all that bit....any help out there?/

Hopefully after reading through these posts you'll know how much detail TRA require for employer references. What I think is best is that you write the reference, pass it on to your ex employers and ask them to add/delete where they deem appropriate. You want to get it right first time and not to have to keep going back. A telephone call to ask them if it would be ok to do it this way wouldn't do any harm..............

I emailed energysafety yesterday and received an email back saying 'please see attached form' thats it, no explanation and not an answer to my question !!!!

I have noticed a difference from the NEW forms that have just been attached to the energysafety site.

if you apply with a ARTC as a Electrical Mechanic it says this ;

Once your application is received, you will be issued a permit to work under supervision to enable you to gain on-the-job experience under Australian conditions while having your skills assessed by a Registered Training Organisation approved by the Electrical Licensing Board.

When you have completed successfully the skills assessment, you will be eligible to be issued an ‘Electrician’s Licence’ on paying the five-yearly Registration Fee.

if you apply with the OTSR it says this ;

Once your application is received, you will be issued a permit to work under supervision to enable you to gain on-the-job experience under Australian conditions while undertaking the Gap Training at an approved Registered Training Organisation.

When you have completed successfully the Gap Training and been issued your Certificate III in Electrotechnology Electrician you will be eligible to be issued an ‘Electrician’s Licence’ on paying the five-yearly Registration Fee.

Notice the difference,

skills assessed with an ARTC

Gap training with an OTSR

Gap training 12 months, skills assessed 2-3 months ??????? only speculating, anyone know the answer ??????????

Hi robwa,

I cant even find it myself on there now, im going to give them a ring this morning, to check this information, if it is true we will be gutted. The only way then to get the licence is to work on a restricted one for 12 months on a reduced rate apparently, which they call gap training and then you sit your exam to achieve your full licence, but i dont think there are many who want to take on a restricted licenced person which is our worry. Other states may have different ways but i think WA and South Australia where the ones doing the shorter route, but im not definite about that.

I will ring them in a bit anyway to clarify.

Where did this information come from ? I have heard a rumour about people who went through vettasses were processed incorrectly and that all licensing had ceased with immediate effect, but again there is no proof !!!!

Someone on here had posted that they had contacted energysafe and nothing has changed.

There is no peer route in WA, and apparently WA dont recognise licenses that are gained through this process in South Australia, you apply through energysafe with your ARTC (in my case) they tell energysafe and you enrol on the tafe course which is 2 weeks, when you pass that you apply for your license....

If its any different, show me the proof !!!!!!!

reminds me of 12 months ago when we went through the registration process for nursing with the OH, nobody knew what was going on and even the governing bodies didn't even know !!!!

Thanks derren, I will argue my case with TRA, I've been doing installation now for 20 years, on my first employers reference, where I was an apprentice, there is about 3 a4 sides on installation techniques and then the following 2 references also states that I carry out installation work to 16th/17th edition requirements. The only thing I can think is that neither of the 2 latter references I mention really go into detail on any installation work I have done, but then again they don't go into detail on the maintenance work I have done just more of what I have worked on, if you get my drift !! So how can they choose either or......... I am hoping to have an ace up my sleeve if they start to be awkward, whether it works is a different matter, the ex-colleague that did the same job as me,in a supervisory position, is now the maintenance manager at a Perth print house.......If I can speak to someone at TRA and ask them to give him a call to vouch for my qualifications it may have some weighting, who knows ????

Right fellas ( and ladies), i'm really going to confuse you all now. As you may or may not know i have just received my ARTC as electrical fitter. I applied for elec fitter and elec mechanic, dual trade, although i am a maintenance spark i also carry out installation work. I am going to email TRA today and ask why I wasnt assessed as a mechanic, I haven't received any reason as to why.

I have also just been in touch with an ex workmate who is now the gaffer at a print house in perth, he got the dual trade artc. apparently energysafe (licensing board) only have 2 distinctive license titles now those being, electrician (unrestricted) and electrical fitter (restricted).

When you use the ARTC application form it only gives you the option to apply for Mechanic or fitter or both !

When you access the link from the TRA website for job descriptions there is no such title as electrical fitter, its either mechanic or electrician !

How f##ked up can this system of applying for trade certificates be !!!!!

We decided to apply for the visa as me being the main applicant because the OH is a nurse and that registration was also terrible..............Thing is we fly out on 8th Jan, I wanted to work as soon as I received my license, unrestricted. If its going to take another 3-4 months to assess once we are residents then that will eat into a big chunk of our savings..........

I shall post again when I recieve a reply from TRA.........wish me luck !!!!!

Hey, thanx I have contacted the school and requested this so I will wait and see wat they say hopefully they should do it no problem

Unfortunately my OH's secondary school only keeps records for 10 years so I had to go to the board that marked the GCSE's. I requested a copy of the final exam results and asked them to include a letter stating that all subjects were taught and assessed in English, they did that no problem ..........

AHPRA Update on English language requirements for registration

 

AHPRA - Board update on English language skills registration standard

 

 

>>21 March 2011

Board update on English language skills registration standard

The Nursing and Midwifery Board of Australia (the Board) today confirmed that the current English language skills registration standard remains in place pending the outcome of an extensive consultation process.<<

 

 

The current one is here

 

AHPRA - Internationally Qualified Nurses and Midwives

 

Was is not clear is if they will take into account 2ndary Education for English instead of IELTS as before

The OH has her 'eligible to register' letter from AHPRA. Once we get to Oz she has to go into the local AHPRA office with proof of identity and criminal checks and she will be put on the register. This is WITHOUT IELTS but proof that she was taught and assessed in English........

The UNI have got it right, if it is sent direct to AHPRA from them then it will ok, cost us £60 to get the OH's transcript sent.

Hi well I got back on to DIAC last night and explained the situation again and was told to send another PLE turns out I was right in the first place the information was in the right place it was just when it was printed out it looked as if it was under the heading non migration family members.

I received a reply within an hour and was told they would attach all my e mails to my application so when allocated my co can sort it out.

Thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction I think I just panicked and was thinking all sorts.

I think they should have staff looking at your application straight away who can inform you if anything needs to be corrected so your application can move forward. Its far too long having to wait 10 months + and I know as far as some people are concerned 10 months isn't a long time.

 

Good luck everyone, thanks again.

 

Maria.x

Hi Maria, thats good that it could be cleared up. Have you been to Oz before ? Did you see my question above? If you have been to Oz do you remember what you put on the application form about 'previously been to Australia' question?...............Thanks

Hi Gary,

 

I told the girl what I had done she said to correct mistakes fill in form 1023.

Now that I think of it she didn't say if I had filled it in wrong I think I told her I did.

 

In the e mail I sent I did explain fully and this is the reply I got.

 

Thank you for your email in relation to your visa application under Australia's General Skilled Migration program.

 

In order to inform the department of incorrect information provided during your application process you will need to complete Form 1023 Notification of incorrect answer(s) and submit it to this office. This form is available from the department's website at <http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1023.pdf>

 

Alternatively, you can obtain the form from your nearest Australian Embassy or immigration office. Contact details for the department's offices are available at <http://www.immi.gov.au/contacts/index.htm>

 

We prefer that these forms or any additional documents are scanned and emailed to us at:

gsm.documents@immi.gov.au

 

Your case officer will contact you during the processing of your application if any further information is required.

 

Do you know Gary I think you might be right, trouble is its so long since i filled in the application I couldnt remember if their were 2 diffrent sections 1. non migration dependents 2. other family members. what your sating makes scene.

OH my head hurts again :arghh: wont be long before i need a bloody stright jacket.... I'M going to ring them again tonight, jesus they will think this one is a bloody idiot :biglaugh:. Thanks a mill.

 

Maria.x

Hi Maria, I wouldn't worry that much, I read in another post that people do make mistakes and as long as they aren't major ones like not doing your skills assessment, not declaring a conviction etc..... then we are only human and genuine mistakes can happen. I believe that a lot of the emails that DIAC send you are generic and dont specifically look at your query !!!! I think that at the end of your application you should be given an opportunity to add notes to explain that you've not included this or included that and why, if you know what I mean.

I'm struggling a bit at the moment with the 'have you previously been to australia, held or currently hold a visa for travel to australia' question.

We did go to Oz in 2009 for a recce and had a e-visitor visa electronically attached to our passports. If you select 'yes' to the above question you can fill in most details apart from where it was issued. I have found the evisitor grant email that was processed in Tasmania, guess what, this isn't an option on the drop down menu !!!!!! Anyone else know what they did here ????????