Johndoe Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 it's hard isn't it? trying to untangle genuine reponses from those skewed by a hidden agenda. sometimes though you can guess what someone is going to say by having read their previous posts. my views on this thread are based on my personal experience of my son's preschool 'education', and they seem to be backed up by the article in the OP. sorry if that offends you Your opinion doesn't offend me at all. It's your dismissal of others' opinions by stating that they have an "agenda" that offends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 it's hard isn't it? trying to untangle genuine reponses from those skewed by a hidden agenda. Well, I'd be interested in knowing the hidden agenda of any of the posters on this thread. Personally I don't see one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 they bribed the judging panel? Of course, silly me! :rolleyes: Couldn't possibly have been merit...what was I thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Of course, silly me! :rolleyes: Couldn't possibly have been merit...what was I thinking? not sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well, I'd be interested in knowing the hidden agenda of any of the posters on this thread. Personally I don't see one. tricky, cos it's hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Our eldest started kindergarten (first full time year of school in NSW) last Feb. Prior to that she just did a couple of days per week at a long daycare/pre-school centre. Our youngest is currently at the same pre-school and will be starting school next Feb. It is a well thought of pre-school, which has won some awards locally. The curriculum there is such that they do active and physical play, creative and messy play, manipulative play (things like play-dough, cutting and threading), dramatic play and language and music groups. They do no 'structured' learning of letters or numbers, because this isn't what pre-school is about. This is why it is pre-school. It teaches them important social skills, language structure (those songs about kookaburras are actually quite important for language development), gross and fine motor skills, how to be independant from their parents, how to take instruction, how to follow a routine and so on. At home, I taught our eldest how to read her letters, numbers, basic reading and writing and so on, because she asked to learn how to do those things. I didn't have to push her at all, and viewed that as part of my responsibility as a parent. She has excelled at school, and in no way was her progress hampered by what she did or didn't do at pre-school. If our youngest asks to learn at home, I will teach her. If she isn't interested, I won't. If a child is bright, then they will be bright regardless and, in my opinion, don't need to be pushed anywhere. They are children, and as such need to be allowed to be children before they start school, i.e. at pre-school. They have many,many years of schooling, and providing the outcome at the end is good (young adults leaving school and university with not only an education, but also as well-rounded and confident individuals), what does it matter how they get there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 tricky, cos it's hidden. Ah...I see...so hidden that you can't find one either.:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 apologies to LKC. it was a good post though I found it a bit patronsing TBH. Anyway I've deleted my comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Doing the mod thing As harpodom had deleted his comment and posted about doing so I've removed replies to it and quoting it for continuity. Now, what was the topic again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I would like to commend LKC for her post - her experience of the topic is highly relevant, comprehensive, personal and recent. So... authoritative, not the least bit patronising....and these quotes go to the heart of the issue: She has excelled at school, and in no way was her progress hampered by what she did or didn't do at pre-school. They have many,many years of schooling, and providing the outcome at the end is good (young adults leaving school and university with not only an education, but also as well-rounded and confident individuals), what does it matter how they get there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Nothing demonstrated that more to me than when one of the local footballers (whose son was in the same kinder) did a session with the kids. The over the top fanfare beforehand in the newsletter said it all, then there was the gushing praise of said footballer in the next newsletter. Fast forward a few months to when I volunteered an afternoon of my time to talk to the kids about my job. I won't mention what it is but it is an academic profession and one which all kids would recognise. No mention in the preceeding newsletter. A fleeting mention in the newsletter afterwards. The impression I got was that in the teachers' view, academia is not something to inspire kids with. No, they can be footballers! Hahaha suppose just like the way all the footballers in the UK are idolised by the kids, and adults for that matter. Would like to see their pre school education history. Let kids be kids I say, they have plenty of time to learn from kindergarten onwards, pre school i think should be a fun time for kids to just interact with others and get some routine away from their parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I am sorry if you thought I was being patronising. That wasn't my intention, and I didn't mean my post to come across as such. I was just trying to explain my point of view. I didn't see the comments that were deleted, so... anyway. I just don't understand the preoccupation that people have with pre-school and early childhood education. In my opinion (and it is only my opinion), children need to develop in more ways than just educationally. I am very well educated but I do not have the confidence that I would have needed to take my career in the direction I would have liked. I am not saying that this is entirely the fault of the British education system (I am sure my parents had a big hand in it), but I feel that the things that were lacking in my education were the social and confidence-building skills. I have two undergraduate degrees, but I couldn't stand up in front of even a small group of people and talk. This sort of skill, to me, is just as important as the academic ones. The ability to think for ones self, to ask questions and to know where to go to find the information that you need are also important. In fact I think that knowing how to work things out from first principles are far more important than learning things by rote, and at such a young age, most things would be learned by rote. Young children just don't have the ability to think in any other way. I look at how far my daughter has come in her first year of school, and I can't help but feel pleased as punch that we are here and that she is getting the education that she is. She has learned to read and can work out how to read even complicated words, she isn't just copying down letters parrot fashion, but has been taught to write stories with a beginning, a middle and an end. She had the confidence to stand up and read in front of the whole school, she took part in a public speaking competition, she has made friends, was in a play, sung a song in front of the school, had fun, her thirst for knowledge has increased hugely, I could go on. She didn't need to do those things at pre-school. What she needed to do there was learn to be independant, learn to follow rules and routines, learn to hold a pencil and colour in, learn to thread and use scissors and so on. I think that that is what pre-school is for. To get them ready to do the learning at school. The rest comes later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ive had a child go through nursery and pre school in the UK and one who has done the same here. I remember in that first year or so commenting to hubby how she wasnt doing any of the 'school type' work my son had done in the UK. He shrugged it off and told me not to worry. 3 years on, Im glad he did, my daughter is way advanced on her brother at this age, i know kids are different etc etc but despite my earlier concerns ,she is thriving in every way possible and is a very clever girl for her age. I guess what im trying to say is i learnt that 'how' they teach is very different in both countrys and because theyre not doing what 'we' think is 'normal' doesnt mean its having a bad affect on our children. Cal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpot Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I just don't understand the preoccupation that people have with pre-school and early childhood education. I'm inclined to agree. It's not going to make or break anything In my opinion (and it is only my opinion), children need to develop in more ways than just educationally. I am very well educated but I do not have the confidence that I would have needed to take my career in the direction I would have liked. I am not saying that this is entirely the fault of the British education system (I am sure my parents had a big hand in it), but I feel that the things that were lacking in my education were the social and confidence-building skills. I have two undergraduate degrees, but I couldn't stand up in front of even a small group of people and talk. This sort of skill, to me, is just as important as the academic ones. The ability to think for ones self, to ask questions and to know where to go to find the information that you need are also important. In fact I think that knowing how to work things out from first principles are far more important than learning things by rote, and at such a young age, most things would be learned by rote. Young children just don't have the ability to think in any other way. I also agree with this. Where I differ is the implication that preschool that avoids any structured teaching will make a big difference in this direction either; I just dont think it makes that much difference. Your kids being happy and interested in learning and developing is what you really want I look at how far my daughter has come in her first year of school, and I can't help but feel pleased as punch that we are here and that she is getting the education that she is. She has learned to read and can work out how to read even complicated words, she isn't just copying down letters parrot fashion, but has been taught to write stories with a beginning, a middle and an end. She had the confidence to stand up and read in front of the whole school, she took part in a public speaking competition, she has made friends, was in a play, sung a song in front of the school, had fun, her thirst for knowledge has increased hugely, I could go on. Fantastic (genuinely) She didn't need to do those things at pre-school. What she needed to do there was learn to be independant, learn to follow rules and routines, learn to hold a pencil and colour in, learn to thread and use scissors and so on. I think that that is what pre-school is for. To get them ready to do the learning at school. The rest comes later. Agree, but if kids are ready for learning I don't think it does them any harm I liked your post fwiw, and as I said I have no experience of Aussie pre-school so have no opinion on it. I can say I'm very happy with where our son went to pre-prep in England, where he did do some structured learning, but that's mostly because of the way he is as an individual. I'm hoping we find the experience in government schools positive, I particularly liked the bit about storytelling in your post above. I will say I was quite surprised at the low expectations (IMO) they have for the first year of school in terms of where kids will get to at the end, but again I don't think it's a make or break issue at this stage. I'm most interested in my son making friends and group physical activity at this stage, so long as he doesn't get bored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Agree, but if kids are ready for learning I don't think it does them any harm I agree with you. Sophie was ready to learn to read and write before she started school, so I taught her at home. I didn't expect her to learn those things at pre-school. I was happy for her to learn the other stuff that I can't teach (such as independance from me) whilst there. I liked your post fwiw, and as I said I have no experience of Aussie pre-school so have no opinion on it. I can say I'm very happy with where our son went to pre-prep in England, where he did do some structured learning, but that's mostly because of the way he is as an individual. I'm hoping we find the experience in government schools positive, I particularly liked the bit about storytelling in your post above. I will say I was quite surprised at the low expectations (IMO) they have for the first year of school in terms of where kids will get to at the end, but again I don't think it's a make or break issue at this stage. I'm most interested in my son making friends and group physical activity at this stage, so long as he doesn't get bored The teacher told me right at the start of the year that they try to encourage the children to become good story writers because they can see that their writing practice has meaning, rather than just copying down letters. They had two hours of literacy every morning for this. Sophie brought her school books home before Christmas, and right from the very first day of school, her books were crammed full of illustrated stories. Most of them were only a few sentences, but you could see through the books that her use of language, punctuation, more complicated topics and so on improved. It quite obviously excited her imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I work in a school and I have lost count of the number of british parents who come in to enrol their children telling us how bright they are. But my child can read, they protest. On further testing yes they can read the words in the book but if you ask them what the words mean they haven't got a clue. It is all about context and whilst british children learn to read and write much earlier than australian children I am pretty sure they don't always understand what they are reading and writing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishgirl1 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 All I can say from my experience having a daughter who will be in Yr 5 this year and a son going into Yr 1 is that I am happy because my kids are happy and the teachers are happy with there progress... My daughter struggled with lots of things till half way through Yr 1 even with reading and maths and well now she is at the level with the majority of the students. The main thing for me is she is happy with lots of friends and a good student. My son on the other hand struggles socially and with frustration but is a pretty bright kid although is only starting to read little stories now, he loves to draw and learn about the world, planet and the Titanic ??? we can't get him to kick a football he has no interest which concerns me, but loves to go for rides on his scooter, I think you assume all boys have to play sport, well I assumed. As long as our kids are happy isn't that the important thing here. Laney xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ive had a child go through nursery and pre school in the UK and one who has done the same here. I remember in that first year or so commenting to hubby how she wasnt doing any of the 'school type' work my son had done in the UK. He shrugged it off and told me not to worry. FWIW, policy has changed/is changing in the UK with pre school. It is much more now learning through play and my son's pre school make it a point to not actively teach things like the alphabet or how to write basic letters and so on. It is more play based and child lead. The also don't do phonics anymore as the schooling has changed on that and that all comes later once the kids have learnt the actual alphabet. Reception has also changed and seems to be much more play based and free flowing. The school my son will attend here in the UK reception wise only teaches a maximum of 6 children round one table at any one time. The others are off doing other things, be it playing outside, painting, building blocks or story/book time etc. So the focus isn't so much on every child sat at a desk being 'taught' like it was when I went to school. Personally I don't want my son to be expected to sit at a table when at pre school and be taught how to write letters or numbers or his name when he is still only 3 or 4. He'll learn that at school in time or we will encourage it at home if he shows an interest or asks to learn. He loves pre school and when I ask him what his favourite thing was about it, every day, without fail he'll say 'Seeing my friends and playing with them'. He is an outgoing bright kid and I am value the freedom his preschool is giving him to develop his confidence in every aspect without the expectation of structured classroom leaning. I fall into the group that would personally like to see school start later as it does in some other European countries. I think 4 or 5 is often still to young. I'd be all for 6 or 7 given half a chance. That our son will probably have to do reception year over again when we move to Aus is actually a good thing from where I am sitting. Boys tend to often struggle at school in the early years anyway, so any chance my son gets to go over those early years and give him a bit of breathing room works for me/us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 My son on the other hand struggles socially and with frustration but is a pretty bright kid although is only starting to read little stories now, he loves to draw and learn about the world, planet and the Titanic ??? Laney xx It sounds as though he would get on famously with my (just) 6 year old grandson who is OBSESSED with planets! ...and has been since age 2. We've decided he must have been an astronaut or astrophysicist in his last lifetime.:biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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