Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 [h=1]http://www.theage.com.au/national/education/preschool-standards-shock-20120107-1ppk4.html#ixzz1j1spqd5r Cosima Mariner and Deborah Gough January 8, 2012[/h] "THE educational prospects of the nation's children are being jeopardised by a ''very poor'' standard of teaching in preschools, a government-funded national study into the quality of early education has found." This is a bit of a rant I'm afraid. I'm personally very disappointed, almost angry, at the standard of education my son has had the last 2 years (3 and 4 year old kindergarten). He starts school next month. During his time in kindergarten, from what I can gather, he received no structured education (by which I mean numeracy and literacy). The fact that he can, for example, write his own name and that of his brother, count to 50 (in his own way), and knows his alphabet is down to his parents. The teacher was too busy supervising him and his mates doing painting, playdo, singing songs about kookaburras, and playing in the sandpit. Yes all those things are important aspects of his schooling experience, but what about actual teaching? Basically he attended a glorified playgroup, where the focus was about getting the children socially ready for school. I'd like to know about other people's experiences of the quality of their child's pre-school education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Personally, I'm perfectly happy for my three year old to be prepared socially for school by his pre-school. Until he goes to school, his reading, ABCs and numeracy is my job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Personally, I'm perfectly happy for my three year old to be prepared socially for school by his pre-school. Until he goes to school, his reading, ABCs and numeracy is my job. really? why bother calling it pre-school then? Why not just call it childcare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes really... I don't care whether they call it pre-school or kindergarten or whatever. At this age, I just want him to be as welll adjusted to other kids and having as much fun as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes really... I don't care whether they call it pre-school or kindergarten or whatever. At this age, I just want him to be as welll adjusted to other kids and having as much fun as possible. but he is only 3. My son is nearer 6 then 5 and has never received any formal education. have you read the report? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 really? why bother calling it pre-school then? Why not just call it childcare? Because it is pre school, not school.:cute: The system here in Tas is obviously different from Victoria: one year of kindergarten and one year of Prep before Grade 1 and both formal literacy and numeracy start in kinder. However, there have been studies comparing children with this early formal education and children who start later and the results show that by age 8 or 9 there is no difference in literacy and numeracy skills. Many European countries don't start children at school until age 7, yet by high school they usually top the world's league tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 the situation in Victoria is very varied too. A friend has their child in kinder in S Yarra and it sounds like a very stimulating learning experience. so shall we just conclude that early learning isn't really that important cos they'll all turn out OK? In fact why not just do away with anything other than playgroups before they start school. she'll be right mate.... Jesus wept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 the situation in Victoria is very varied too. A friend has their child in kinder in S Yarra and it sounds like a very stimulating learning experience. so shall we just conclude that early learning isn't really that important cos they'll all turn out OK? In fact why not just do away with anything other than playgroups before they start school. she'll be right mate.... Jesus wept. Works for me. I'm reminded how the most academically brilliant chap in my year at school was recently found dead from a heroin overdose in Thailand. Yet, a girl - also in my year - that left school with no formal qualifications now runs her own multi-million pound photographic agency. I really don't know what either of their pre-school experiences were like, but I put it to you it probably had very little influence on their outcomes. If my son is not being taught when he is at school, then I'll worry. Until then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf N Turf Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Haven't read the report (cooking dinner) but I would have thought that children in pre-school benefit most from a thoughtful, varied and stimulating environment that really gets their brains sparking. For me that's much broader than the ABC's. I was delighted with my daughter's pre-school but far more for the additional activities like hatching chickens, planting vegetables, ballet lessons, visiting musicians and regular excursions etc than her learning to write her own name or counting to 20. That stuff will come with time regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd like to hear from someone with a more objective view please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf N Turf Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd like to hear from someone with a more objective view please You mean someone who agrees with you? Since when has objectivity been a requirement of posting on PIO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd like to hear from someone with a more objective view please Everyones view on this is going to be subjective rather than objective, after all yours is totally subjective. Personally I am happy they aren't as hothoused here as they are in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 so shall we just conclude that early learning isn't really that important cos they'll all turn out OK? In fact why not just do away with anything other than playgroups before they start school. she'll be right mate.... Jesus wept. But playing IS learning in the early childhood years. Manipulating letters and numbers is a tiny fraction of what children learn at this age. There are some educational theories and practice - eg. the Steiner system - which introduces these skills even later, based on their understanding of the way the child's brain develops. Just because you may have been taught reading and writing in school at age 4 doesn't mean it is the ONLY, or the BEST, way to go. You couldn't accuse the Germans or Scandinavians of a "she'll be right, mate" attitude, yet they have traditionally started kids at school at age 7 - or the year in which the child turns 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostie Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I kind of agree with both sides tbh. I think as we are used to putting our kids into education at as little as 2. We have come to expect it wherever we go and we worry that they wont excell in school if they cant read and write by 5. My son when he started reception at age 4 full time could not read, write or hardly talk for that matter. He was under speech therapy as he was "behind"........Well he is now 9yrs old in year 5 uk school and is top of the year group for spelling maths and reading and is assesed as being 2 yrs above in those topics.....So yes it does come whenever they are ready for it . And his speech by age 6 was perfect. But some of the kids from his pre school who could write their name talk and count at 3 are now well below him. I am now a little worried about him going back to year 4 in oz . I am now on my 3rd child and without any input from preschool she talks and counts to 20, can draw pictures but mostly is happy. I do not mind if she cant spell her name or know her alphabet yet as i know she will easily pick it up when she is ready. I actually like the idea of her playing and learning through play yet at the same time do worry about her not starting school till later on. Also a swedish friend of mine found it totally awful that she has to start her little ones in school at 5 as they dont start till 7 where she comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty81 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ok, here's my personal opinion. Daughter is 3 and will start 1 day pre school a week here in NSW in Feb, if we were still in Scotland she would be receiving 5 mornings/afternoons a week. This would be part of the Gov'ts curriculum which runs 3-18. There would be outcomes that she would be measured against. She would receive a parents evening and a report card that outlined achievements and next steps. Knowing many nursery nurses and pre school teachers in Scotland many feel this is overkill, it is socialisation that is most important. My understanding of what she will receive here (and I admit my knowledge is not as great but as a teacher I knew a lot about the Scottish system) is that the focus will be: structure, socialisation in large groups up to 20, active learning through play. At 3 I am happy with this, she will learn basic literacy and numeracy as a by product and also through work at home, which is imperative right throughout schooling and especially in the early years. To the OP, it's a shame that you have been unhappy with the quality provided, and the report does highlight the disparity but at a very quick glance does seem to advise that new guidelines will address this. I don't doubt your child will flourish with the support you provide at home and will not be disadvantaged when formal schooling starts, B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpot Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I can't comment on the standard of pre-school education, but was very surprised (slightly shocked tbh) when we went for orientation at our son's new school where he starts Kindy (1st year of proper FT education in NSW) in 3 weeks. I thought what they were covering was really basic and stuff that he'd done at his pre-prep school in England well over a year ago. To some extent I just have to live with it as they start education later here, but I'd probably be less relaxed if we weren't intending to send him to a selective academic private school in a year's time (they couldn't take him this year) Like everything with education, it's all down to the individual kids and how they are. Our son is very academically inclined (not bigging him up, he just is, he taught himself to read at 2 without us trying to bring it on) but not all are, and if he had been in pre-school for 2 years where he had pretty much been doing playgroup stuff, I wouldn't be very happy either, so I can sympathise with the OP. To some extent it's a bit trendy these days IMO to believe starting later is better and "socialization" is often used as an excuse for not structuring anything. Some kids respond really well to (and need) structure, others less so. Having lived in Sweden I think their education system works well for other reasons rather than just the fact that their kids start late. Kids start late in Romania too (where my brother lives) but IMO the education there is rubbish, I'm very surprised at how lax they are with my niece (who needs pushing!) Having said all that, I don't think the UK approach is all good, in particular it's a bit overcentralised and not very adaptable to the differing individual needs and learning styles of different kids (now that is something the Swedish system is good at). When I was involved in a couple of PFI education schemes in the UK we successfully used an excellent Australian pedagogist as a consultant and from what I could see the Aussie educationalists were a lot more switched on than the UK ones, particularly at primary level. So perhaps they have a better system from a slower start, I'm not sure - but I will be actively trying to find out and understand/improve as our son grows up, that's for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I too can understand the other side of the coin. I have no personal experience with the uk preschool system except for nieces who started age 3. From what I gather there is too much of an academic emphasis and a 'one size fits all' approach based on national curriculum targets. I also understand that other countries start later. I agree that it's nice to have a focus on the social development of preschool kids and also that they have fun. I don't think any of the above are arguments to maintain the status quo in the Australian preschool system though. Children of 4 and 5 are like sponges. They pick things up amazingly quickly. I just think a MASSIVE opportunity for learning is squandered by having a glorified playgroup, especially for children who are brighter and have a thirst for knowledge. Recently I did a talk to my sons kinder class (mostly 5 year olds) about my profession. It was an eye opener for me, no educationalist for sure. There was a group of 6 or so (out of 24) kids who were clearly more switched on and you could see their brains working. Those were the ones I feel that need to be pushed academically, and apart from voluntary contributions by parents I couldn't see any evidence of that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 You mean someone who agrees with you? Since when has objectivity been a requirement of posting on PIO? sorry, I meant somneone posting without a hidden agenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest famousfive Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My eldest went to pre-school here about 9yrs ago and at that particular pre-school there was no emphasis at all on learning basic literacy or numeracy. I was not too impressed with the place anyway because at the end of day one they suggested my husband teach her to speak with more of an aussie accent because the kids found it hard to understand her Irish accent!!I kid you not.I burst out laughing and said it was a good thing I reminded her to speak english whilst there then,rather than gaelic,or they would have had no hope whatsoever. Anyway.....after getting over that first hurdle she loved it but did not learn a thing,apart from painting.They painted so much they would have given Michelangelo a run for his money by the end of it.Good thing she knew how to recognise letters,numbers,count and do basic reading before she stepped in the door. Later that same year she went to an irish pre-school and the difference was astonishing.They actually prepared them for primary.They taught basic numeracy and literacy through play and no child left there without being able to read and write a wee bit at least. Roll on 7yrs and we were back in oz again with kids going into yrs 1,2 and 4.What an eyeopener.Yrs 1 and 2 had home reading material which had an instruction page included to let you know how best to assist them with this task.The main instruction was to not correct them when they got words wrong but to let them continue on regardless,the flow was the important thing,actually reading the right words was not.God give me patience.The kids were 7 and 8 for petes sake,the 8yr old had chosen Harry Potter for her home reader back in Ireland 2mths previously,good luck making any sense of that if you read half the words wrong.Needless to say they were bored for a good part of that first year. Have kids who learnt later caught up?Not yet in my experience.My girls are 9,10 and 12 now and they are all still streets ahead of their classmates.The eldest was awarded Dux of school after only 2 terms at the school but I still worry she will be behind when we return to Ireland in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 My eldest went to pre-school here about 9yrs ago and at that particular pre-school there was no emphasis at all on learning basic literacy or numeracy.I was not too impressed with the place anyway because at the end of day one they suggested my husband teach her to speak with more of an aussie accent because the kids found it hard to understand her Irish accent!!I kid you not.I burst out laughing and said it was a good thing I reminded her to speak english whilst there then,rather than gaelic,or they would have had no hope whatsoever. Anyway.....after getting over that first hurdle she loved it but did not learn a thing,apart from painting.They painted so much they would have given Michelangelo a run for his money by the end of it.Good thing she knew how to recognise letters,numbers,count and do basic reading before she stepped in the door. Later that same year she went to an irish pre-school and the difference was astonishing.They actually prepared them for primary.They taught basic numeracy and literacy through play and no child left there without being able to read and write a wee bit at least. Roll on 7yrs and we were back in oz again with kids going into yrs 1,2 and 4.What an eyeopener.Yrs 1 and 2 had home reading material which had an instruction page included to let you know how best to assist them with this task.The main instruction was to not correct them when they got words wrong but to let them continue on regardless,the flow was the important thing,actually reading the right words was not.God give me patience.The kids were 7 and 8 for petes sake,the 8yr old had chosen Harry Potter for her home reader back in Ireland 2mths previously,good luck making any sense of that if you read half the words wrong.Needless to say they were bored for a good part of that first year. Have kids who learnt later caught up?Not yet in my experience.My girls are 9,10 and 12 now and they are all still streets ahead of their classmates.The eldest was awarded Dux of school after only 2 terms at the school but I still worry she will be behind when we return to Ireland in a few months. it sounds like you have similar (quite low) expectations to me FF. Teach them something (anything) academic if only to get their brains firing. OK, fair enough, they did excursions eg to the local hospital, they had 'outside speakers' come in. One was about behaviour around dogs. They watched chickens hatch from eggs. Important stuff, but not enough IMO. Attending my sons Christmas 'concert' at the end of last year was for me a rather depressing experience. Watching him and his mates half heartedly singing naff songs and dancing poorly choreographed by the teacher. It was a f78king shambles! I had a chat with the kindy teacher about getting him more involved with the boys when they were kicking a 'footy' around in the garden. This led to her giving me a lecture on why I should be indoctrinating him with football mania just like all the other kids, and then went on (at great length) about how she and all her family going back x generations were all Collingwood supporters FFS. I gave up. Waste of time. Roll on school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Julz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 So here's my experience. We moved to Darwin, NT (Oct 2009) when my daughter was 4, she just already completed a year back home of school nursery, half a morning every day. In that year of UK school nursery, she was shown how to hold a pencil and attempt to write their name and developed social skills. On arrival in Darwin she spent another few months doing the same sort of thing in pre-school, then on starting transition (prep) year had yet another year of doing very little....coming home with box constructions etc. things she had been doing for nearly 2 years already, there didn't seem to by any progress in what they were learning at school. We had friends who's daughter was in my daughters UK school nursery and they moved to Darwin 6 months after us, their daughter had already been exposed to 6 months of UK schooling and could already read and write, it was a further 6 months down the line before my daughter could read or write, but she could make fantastic boxes with sellotape as she'd bee doing it for almost 2 flippin years!!!! So in my opinion the education is poor in Australia, they are more geared towards sports than education. I say the earlier they are taught the better, their brains are like sponges and take in so much more when they are so young. We are returning to the UK this year and I'm glad that my younger 2 children can start Year 1 of school and start learning immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf N Turf Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 sorry, I meant somneone posting without a hidden agenda I must be being let down buy the Australian pre-school system because I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm just posting my opinion from my experience. It happens on here from time to time. Stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 So here's my experience. We moved to Darwin, NT (Oct 2009) when my daughter was 4, she just already completed a year back home of school nursery, half a morning every day. In that year of UK school nursery, she was shown how to hold a pencil and attempt to write their name and developed social skills. On arrival in Darwin she spent another few months doing the same sort of thing in pre-school, then on starting transition (prep) year had yet another year of doing very little....coming home with box constructions etc. things she had been doing for nearly 2 years already, there didn't seem to by any progress in what they were learning at school. We had friends who's daughter was in my daughters UK school nursery and they moved to Darwin 6 months after us, their daughter had already been exposed to 6 months of UK schooling and could already read and write, it was a further 6 months down the line before my daughter could read or write, but she could make fantastic boxes with sellotape as she'd bee doing it for almost 2 flippin years!!!! So in my opinion the education is poor in Australia, they are more geared towards sports than education. I say the earlier they are taught the better, their brains are like sponges and take in so much more when they are so young. We are returning to the UK this year and I'm glad that my younger 2 children can start Year 1 of school and start learning immediately. Nothing demonstrated that more to me than when one of the local footballers (whose son was in the same kinder) did a session with the kids. The over the top fanfare beforehand in the newsletter said it all, then there was the gushing praise of said footballer in the next newsletter. Fast forward a few months to when I volunteered an afternoon of my time to talk to the kids about my job. I won't mention what it is but it is an academic profession and one which all kids would recognise. No mention in the preceeding newsletter. A fleeting mention in the newsletter afterwards. The impression I got was that in the teachers' view, academia is not something to inspire kids with. No, they can be footballers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest famousfive Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Wait until they get to year 5 or 6 and the songs and music still sound tragic even though you have been paying $15 each per week for the privilage of them learning this stuff.My daughter is 12 and this year her dance lesson consisted of learning the Birdy Song dance and some stupid penguin dance......riverdance here she comes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I hope things improve at school! One funny (and slightly worrying) thing I heard from a colleague a few months back. His friend had a kid, aged 11 at the same primary school my son goes to next month. The colleague asked the kid what they were doing for home that night. 'Colouring' was the answer. I sh6t you not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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