Guest GoldCoastMag Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Since I have been here, I have received so much negative vibes from Australia about poms and Britishness. We set up a country for them (with British knowhow no less). I was proud before I travelled to work here, and I am even prouder. Little do they realise until Australia is at least 1,000 years old can they indeed be judged historically. I said one day to an Australia - your almost as English as me fella if you think about it. In fact what is Australian - in my opinions there are native Australians and Australians of European heritage - majority English, then German, Dutch, Italian, Greek etc. So a little bit more respect gold coast mag - remember where you came from. Oh I certainly do know where I came from! However I am NOW an Australian and this country has many more years of history and culture than those that count from when the British or Dutch arrived. The British also have many negative aspects of their "knowhow", think stolen generation, white australia only, orphan children who were taken from their parents and British Officers who insisted Australian soldiers go to their death in battlefields. Society here is different from other countries and it has taken many cultures to become the country it is today. Claiming British and European knowhow is the only influence is somehow denigrating to all the other ethnicities that have helped shape the Australian psyche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest59652 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Julia Gillard is not about to be head of state. As for the Republic debate, if the referendum had been worded differently the results would have been far more for the change. You cannot extrapolate the numbers as being in favour of the current monarchial system, as it was a skewed result. As for your being proud for being British, great, I am sorry you need to live in a foreign country but I am proud to live in Australia and be an Australian. Sorry to hear you are offended at the lack of a curtsey, I am sure our PM was informed of protocols, and if a curtsy was not considered necessary, why are you offended? PMSL - proud to live in Australia and be an Australian. Oh are you saying go home then as your proud to be where your from but you have to live there. Australia is the most multi-cultural country in the world - so be a little more open to people. In my eyes - controversial or not the only true Australians at this stage are the native aboriginals who lived and worked the land many years before Europeans descended. You are proud to be Australian - which means you are proud of your British heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Goldcoast mag - points well made. I live in our commonwealth. I do not need to live overseas, one is broad minded enough to work and travel. Majority of members of the commonwealth are republics. The commonwealth is just a optional grouping of like minded nations. As for the lack of curtsy - well it just shows Australia as lacking morals and trying to make a statement. Your morals Marchman, yours. What are you doing if not trying to make a statement. Life is a statement. At the end of the day it won't make the news past here and the UK - Australia is isolated and utterly irrelevant in world terms so good on her for not showing the suggested protocol. Australia is obviously "utterly irrelevant in world terms " from your British point of view as you do not know our influence. Another example of why foreigners do not make good representatives of other nations. Since I have been here, I have received so much negative vibes from Australia about poms and Britishness. We set up a country for them (with British knowhow no less). I was proud before I travelled to work here, and I am even prouder. Little do they realise until Australia is at least 1,000 years old can they indeed be judged historically. I said one day to an Australia - your almost as English as me fella if you think about it. In fact what is Australian - in my opinions there are native Australians and Australians of European heritage - majority English, then German, Dutch, Italian, Greek etc. So a little bit more respect gold coast mag - remember where you came from. Overly nationalistic people do not make the best travellers. She defended the action - should be no need for a defence. I get the point about the curtsy - it would just be good to teach the young children about respect for senior figures. Her not curtsying to someone who (whether we like it or not) commands respect is like saying to a child on their everyday level there is no need to respect your parents. It's a ladder that starts at the top and us mere mortals follow at our level. Our children will be taught democratic respect for merit, not birth right respect carried from the past well of subservience and inequality. But thanks for your suggestions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 ...In my eyes - controversial or not the only true Australians at this stage are the native aboriginals who lived and worked the land many years before Europeans descended.... Strange how this theme is almost always pushed by overly nationalistic British...we might be forgiven for thinking it is simply a ruse to insult us. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landv Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Our children will be taught democratic respect for merit, not birth right respect carried from the past well of subservience and inequality. Well said, couldn't agree more.:yes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Oh I certainly do know where I came from! However I am NOW an Australian and this country has many more years of history and culture than those that count from when the British or Dutch arrived. The British also have many negative aspects of their "knowhow", think stolen generation, white australia only, orphan children who were taken from their parents and British Officers who insisted Australian soldiers go to their death in battlefields. Society here is different from other countries and it has taken many cultures to become the country it is today. Claiming British and European knowhow is the only influence is somehow denigrating to all the other ethnicities that have helped shape the Australian psyche. The stolen generation and White Australia policy have nothing to do with the UK. They were policies of the Australian and state governments after the Commonwealth was formed in 1901. The were all complicit with the awful child migration policy. I believe that Australia should become a republic asap. It is rather silly not having a Head of State who is Australian and even living in the country. If Aussies want a republic let them have it. Many other Commonwealth countries are republics. If the Uk wants to keep a monarchy then its up to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Of course, we have already experimented with a republic before haven't we? I was forgetting about that. The English Civil War, followed by the 'KANGAROO' (no irony intended) trial and execution of Charles I, and in turn by the Commonwealth dictatorship of Oliver Cromwell. After twelve years everyone had had enough and Charles II came back, executed a few of the regicides, and then went back to bonking Nell Gwynne, et al. and everything was sweet again. Of course, there have been a few 'ups and downs' over the centuries, but in general, the British prefer to 'bend not break.' James II was a fool for instance and we did not 'bend' very well circa 1776. But, it's an ill wind as they say, and without the American Revoluition, we might not have come to Australia. We only had to look over The Channel to see what happens when you don't 'bend'? Australians learn the lessons of history as well as anyone. I was interested, too, during the last referendum on a republic, just how many 'new' Australians had learnt the lessons of history too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurls Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 We had a lovely morning down at Lake Burley Griffin waiting to see the Queen. Gorgeous day in Canberra. :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest59652 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Mary Rose the beauty of your words are just gorgeous. I am glad Jurls you had such a lovely day welcoming our (whether we are English, Australian) Queen. Tremendous - fills people with pride. Good on her for coming all this way at her age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest59652 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Keep contributing - views are mixed - makes life good having opinions. So far we have a bit of a polar debate going on - people from opposite opinion ranges. This is fantastic opinion matter and I'm sure many will have enjoyed today in Canberra. Seen the photos looks like she has been greatly received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverbobby Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hi, Can someone please explain/offer the arguements for Australia becoming a republic? I understand Australia is independent of the UK but the Queen is the head of state, but how is this worse for Australia than a republic, what are the drawbacks of having the Queen as head of state? I'm not yet in Oz but when i get there i hope to brush up on Australian history as part of the education of my children, and hopefully if we settle and get citizenship i will think of myself as Australian even if a part of me will always be at home. I am in no way a royalist, i couldn't care less what they do. The Queen seems to have very little influence in modern day Britain, the parliament runs the country and we do just fine. I agree the royals attract plenty of tourism but that is not a reason to have the royals, but i do think the Queen profits too much from the British public. I think the Queen still owns huge amounts of land/countryside and not just where her castles are. Do they really need all this land/money? Saying all this i am not that bothered about getting rid of the Queen either. The royal family is part of the British history and when people sing the national anthem it is not because they love the Queen but because it represents the pride of being British. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tea4too Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Our children will be taught democratic respect for merit, not birth right respect carried from the past well of subservience and inequality. But thanks for your suggestions A good point well made, but not just relevant to the children of Australia. The Queen maybe the Head of State here in the UK, but I too would struggle with the concept of having to curtsey to a person holding that title by virtue of an accident of birth rather than merit. I have no problem with demonstrating courtesy and good manners, but I don't think it is necessary in the 21st Century to do this my bending the knee and bowing my head in a subservient manner. I also have problems with hereditary titles......perhaps I'd better stop now before I go way off topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Just read about the Queen's arrival into Australia. The Royal family have received a lot of negative press over recent times, but I am a big believer in history and what they represent. In the UK at least our tourism industry and some of our pride would be hit harshly without them. I was very proud to see pictures of her arrive in Australia. I was surprised however that the Australian PM did not curtsy the Queen. This is a normal greeting of respect to someone such as the Queen, especially as this could be her last official visit. 36% of Australians are in favour of a republic and 55% are still happy with the Queen and the current way of standing. My take is yes the government runs the country. The Queen is more of a symbol now that historically and in the UK interacts with the government whenever she makes speeches and still interacts with government. Obviously in modern times it would be very difficult to have this influence on Australian society. What I do think we should say is that the curtsy would have been nice. If there was no Queen - then who would be head of state. I have heard so much negativity about the current PM lately, yet many AUstralians would be happy for the President to be head of a republic. The Queen has no agenda and would not abuse this power, something leaders with a polital agenda may do. It also brings me to the point that Australian recent history is very much European. The Dutch and the English like it or not,and the knowhow of British governments in the past have created a lot of what Australia now has (controversial). One Australian comment - too many poms here these days. I thought to myself with the "Poms" and Brits what would this area of terrain be. It is great to see so many AUstralians respect the Queen still though and its great to think just over half still value her official standing - which is effectively a very hands off role but her opening the commonwealth meeting fills me with a great sense of pride. As for the lack of curtsy - it was not a great first impression I would have to say. She may have forgot - human error is something that can happen for sure. 10 day tour is pretty whistle stop but I think it is great she is here and that Prince William was here back in January: "God save the Queen" as the Queen of Australia. I am sure some people could not care less, or that whatever the standing it means little to them in everyday life, but in a young country its European descendents require some history and indeed context to its past. Why should ANYONE curtsey to ANYONE else? what has the queen done to make people bow before her???:confused::no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 is it the just the queen you have to curtsey to or is it all royals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Why should ANYONE curtsey to ANYONE else? what has the queen done to make people bow before her???:confused::no: Have you ever wondered why MP's address each other in Parliament as 'My honorable friend' or why there is a specific space between the PM and the Leader of the Opposition, or why we have a 'Speaker' or why we have 'Black Rod'? Perhaps you watch Parliament in operation and wonder why they stuff around with such old-fashioned and archaic practices? Find the answer to those questions and you might find out why the Queen and other members of the Royal Family are treated in a certain way. You might find out why we have had a monarch for over a thousand years too, whilst other countries have dispensed with theirs, often with disastrous results too. Some of those ways have disappeared of course - we don't expect the Queen to eat in public We don't believe that the monarch's 'touch' will cure illnesses although she still dispenses 'Maundy money' (I think?) The Royal Family does, slowly, try to change with the times. Sometimes, they miscalculate the public mood, for example after the death of Diana. In Japan I think they still believe the Emperor is a God. In Thailand it's a criminal offence to insult the King. What is a curtsey anyway, other than just another expression of courtesy. Shaking hands (now WHERE did that come from?), kissing, holding a door open for someone, gentlemen walking on the pavement side of a lady (WHY?!) One of the barman at the Strawberry Hills Hotel addresses me as 'sir'. Is that archaic and outdated? Should I be offended that he does not say 'Gidday mate, what can I get you?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest59652 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Pablo - I adore the Queen - she is the ultimate human - for that she deserves to be bowed and generally worshipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Pablo - I adore the Queen - she is the ultimate human - for that she deserves to be bowed and generally worshipped. is that sarcasm? because im rubbish at knowing if it is :laugh::goofy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest59652 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I vary between sarcasm and wittiness stace - a few of my comments on PIO are tongue in cheeck promotes a bit of banter lol Hope you are well. You back in Scotland or is Oz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I vary between sarcasm and wittiness stace - a few of my comments on PIO are tongue in cheeck promotes a bit of banter lol Hope you are well. You back in Scotland or is Oz? im just useless at sarcasm lol. Im fine thanks, you? Im in scotland, never been in oz before. hoping to move over next year sometime. Have to put up with another winter but hopefully it'll be my last one! where in oz are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Of course, we have already experimented with a republic before haven't we? I was forgetting about that. The English Civil War, followed by the 'KANGAROO' (no irony intended) trial and execution of Charles I, and in turn by the Commonwealth dictatorship of Oliver Cromwell. Yes why all the discussion of Australia becoming the "Republic of Australia" when it's already a commonwealth (a 17th century english term meaning republic - literally commonly held wealth)? No need to rename the country folks. I do understand the Australian desire to have a head of state who lives on the same side of planet as they do. However until someone comes up with a idea of how to appoint a head of state without a politician getting the job I think their referendums are doomed to failure. Australians despise "polys" as they call them even more than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest59652 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 In Adelaide at moment. PR here after being out in the sticks in south australia. Enjoying it most of the time. I love Scotland - been to Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Only been in Summer time though. You coming out with family, partner or on own. Good luck with plans - where in oz u hoping to move to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 In Adelaide at moment. PR here after being out in the sticks in south australia. Enjoying it most of the time. I love Scotland - been to Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Only been in Summer time though. You coming out with family, partner or on own. Good luck with plans - where in oz u hoping to move to. where in the Uk did you come from? Yeah i love edinburgh, its lovely at christmas time. I've never been to aberdeen, we were meant to go there in november for a australian expo but its been changed to manchester now. The plan is to come out with my boyfriend Dave, its a bit harder though because hes a few years over the WHV age and also his current ocupation isnt on the 457 list, hes a excavator operator, can still be sponsored but its a bit harder so we just have to be patient! Its hard though because i just want over there ASAP!!! :jiggy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest59652 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Good stuff - if you can find a sponsor it should be good. People always looking over here to employ folks at the moment. Originally from the midlands between derby and nottingham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest59652 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Gorgeous points Ken. I think traditions and values count for a lot, therefore in my opinion the Queen has been well received. She has no hidden agendas, plenty of wealth - I would rather have her being head of state than a politician who always with time fall into the pits of being unpopular. I think with her being older now its been harder for her to get across and they have lots of commitments and do a lot more than we give them credit for. Maybe when a younger monarch is in place then it might be more practicle to see more of their future King/Queen. I am sure there will be more chance of a Republic as time goes on, but I think it would be a crying shame. And I have said it before its great to see her over here and lovely to see that it excites both the older generations (with more than likely British connections) and also the young australian children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Good stuff - if you can find a sponsor it should be good. People always looking over here to employ folks at the moment. Originally from the midlands between derby and nottingham. Yeah hopefully we'll manage to get over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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