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rikyuu

The property rental system really stinks!

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I've only just got myself setup with internet here in Melbourne so would have liked to have posted earlier, but anyway better late than never, but having read all the posts here's a few things for people to know, as sometimes things look stupid, but there's a reason for it. Right here goes;

 

1) the person who first posted. 3 months notice may seem strange to you but in the state of Victoria for a LL to bring to an end a fixed term tenancy which is a) over 6 months duration and b) is not their principal place of residence they are under the Residential Tenancies Act 1997 required to give 90 days notice." That may well be the case in other States.

 

2) Again definitely in Victoria but not sure elsewhere, Tenant's by law don't have to allow the LL/agent in until the last 14 days of the tenancy for viewings if it is simply a fixed term tenancy coming to an end (there are of course exceptions ie selling mid-tenancy), so your ability to not look around properties in these circumstances is the law dictating this and not the LL/agent. Plus put the shoe on the other foot. In the UK its often 2 months in advance of your vacate date, so surely 14 days is better for you as a tenant moving out, no? 14 days of visitors instead of potentially 2 months!

 

3) I sympathise with people having to put up with this 100pts ID system (speaking from experience), but its only difficult as a new arrival as you don't have much Aus relevant ID. Down the line you can often use random proofs as frivolous as your medicare card to get you towards that 100pts. It only gets easier.

 

4) The system of "open house inspection" is something that thrives on busy markets. It creates an artificially busy and thus competitive market place, much like the auction system. The switch from individual appointment to open for inspection is in response to a strong market for the Landlord. Put simply the agent might show a property 5 times in one week, but on separate days of the week, and if for instance the person offered who looked around 1st the Landlord would not have created the most competitve market place. Put those 5 people in to a "show down" so to speak, and all of a sudden you can create a fiercer and more competitive environment and not only get to be really choosy about the background of the tenant, but ensure you get top dollar. It also makes for better time management for the agent (see point 6 below)

 

5) Don't lose sight of the fact that the "LANDLORD" is the client who is paying the agency, and not the tenant. Their duty is first and foremost to the Landlord, and their duties to the tenant are secondary.

 

6) The reason agents in Aus are crud is partly not their fault. In the UK agencies (I refer to London here, not sure about elsewhere in the UK) have negotiators/consultants who do the leasing etc all the way up to the move in of the tenant but then these agencies have whats called a "PROPERTY MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT" who take over from there (if the agent is managing). The leasing agent therefore does not have to worry themselves about things going wrong in the property as there is someone who's sole job is to be this point of contact for you the tenant. Now the fundamental issue in Aus, is the negotiator/consultant equivalent here are actually called "Property Managers", so they're essentially doing everything! It's therefore no surprise that agents who are required to not only conduct all the pre-let work involved in putting a tenant in a property are then also required as part of their day to day job to be the point of contact for things going wrong in the property. What a nightmare!

 

7) The person who posted about being lead to believe a car port was part of the rented premises but then said a fence was being put up to remove part of this. Well if the agent told you the car port was part of the land, then under Victorian state law this would amount to mis-representation by the agent, and the tenant could take this matter further. The Landlord might also end up sueing the agent lol. So double whammy.

 

8) Just on the nightmare of a Landlord suddenly deciding to sell mid-tenancy, yes sadly in Aus the law allows that the agent/LL can access for viewing purposes. In the UK it's at the tenant's discretion, but do note in Aus that the Tenancy Agreement that you entered in to with the original LL is still a legally binding document, even now there is a completely new owner. That new LL is bound by the same terms of the contract. Nothing that can be done about the viewings side of things though I'm afraid.

 

9) Go easy on the investment companies who buy up properties, as don't forget with the GFC there are a lot less private Landlord's buying up properties for investment purposes due to a lack of buy to let mortgages and them no longer having any money! So if it wasn't for the investment companies still being able to hang on to these assets or acquire new ones, stock issues would be even worse!

 

Hope that has helped clear up a few things!:smile:

 

I presume you are not a tenant trying to find a rental for your family to live in and having to deal with all this stuff.


READ FIRST: please note that my posts are my own personal opinions based on my experiences. These are MY OPINIONS pure and simple, NOT a statement of fact.

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Guest hels

If you think its bad trying to rent a place, wait til you leave one, all ive heard is horror stories of agents trying to keep deposits, from the wrong plants in the garden to a crack in the outside wall, im dreadng leaving my rental now !

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If renting both parties have to adhere to the Act and to assist anyone who is renting see download the attached document from the Consumer Affairs Department in Victoria which sets out each parties rights.

 

http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256902000FE154/Lookup/CAV_Publications_Renting/$file/RentingComplete.pdf


Petals

:ssign15:taking no prisoners :wink:

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Renting can be a nightmare these days. In Australia there is limited protection for rentals all part of the drive to get people to having mega mortgages in the hope of having some security I expect.

On top of that the competition to rent a roof over your head can be very tough.

Rather recent development as when I rented for a short time back in 97 it was easy.

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If you think its bad trying to rent a place, wait til you leave one, all ive heard is horror stories of agents trying to keep deposits, from the wrong plants in the garden to a crack in the outside wall, im dreadng leaving my rental now !

Half of the time it's not the landlords though it's the agents. When we had tenants leave one of our rentals I went round with the agent for the final inspection and the things she marked to keep their bond back were:

Soap Scum in the shower basin (I couldn't even see it)

Dust in the air vent

Grease on the oven extractor fan

Sand in the sliding door tracks:swoon::elvis::swoon:

 

I mean come on, how petty can you get. I told her that none of that mattered and they could have their full bond back, but imagine if I wouldn't have gone down, these poor people would have lost their bond over something and nothing. :wideeyed:


If you are depressed you are living in the past. If you are anxious you are living in the future. If you are at peace you are living in the present.

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Ha! Off tangent, but also seems to be the case in the UK - it always seems to be the agents, and not the landlords. When we moved into our last property, the grout between the tiles in the bathroom was black, disgusting. I scrubbed my little heart's content and got them sort of a grey colour (they actually looked better with the dirt there!) but when we moved out the agent had my poor husband on his hands and knees with bleach trying to restore them to a brilliant white, or it would come out of our deposit. Luckily, I walked in at that moment and a) went crazy and b) supplied a photo from our moving in day showing black, dirty grout between the tiles. The agent was very meek after that and full deposit refunded.

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Guest Bullion Baron
As long as there's a shortage of rental acccomodation the owners will continue to have the upper hand.

 

I hate to show my owner's bias but I can almost guarantee that any problems in my block will be caused by renters.

 

The shortage is an illusion caused by spthey'eculators hoarding empty houses for capital gains.

 

If you look at the charts below (middle chart, top row).....

 

http://www.australianpropertyportal.com/Gallery

 

.....you can see how many homes are sitting empty in Sydney alone.

 

When the housing bubble bursts they'll flood onto the market.

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The shortage is an illusion caused by spthey'eculators hoarding empty houses for capital gains.

 

If you look at the charts below (middle chart, top row).....

 

http://www.australianpropertyportal.com/Gallery

 

.....you can see how many homes are sitting empty in Sydney alone.

 

When the housing bubble bursts they'll flood onto the market.

 

But that data does not breakdown the reasons for the properties being vacant. Or perhaps it does and I just did not see it? I don't understand the financial advantage for any property investor to let their properties stay empty? I've got a house in England and I need the money from the rent BUT if I did not want to rent it out it's my right not to surely. Am I a specualator just because I happened to have worked hard and saved hard so I could buy a second property?

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I've got a house in England and I need the money from the rent BUT if I did not want to rent it out it's my right not to surely. Am I a specualator just because I happened to have worked hard and saved hard so I could buy a second property?

 

In Cornwall, for example, there are areas where locals can't buy or rent a home because second home owners buy them up. They live in them for a month or two a year and leave them empty for the rest of the time. I'd think the locals in these areas would disagree with you here!

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In Cornwall, for example, there are areas where locals can't buy or rent a home because second home owners buy them up. They live in them for a month or two a year and leave them empty for the rest of the time. I'd think the locals in these areas would disagree with you here!

 

I do not know what the answer to that question is - ban the purchase of property by 'outsiders' aka 'grockles' with all their nasty and unwelcome money? How do you enforce it? Why don't the owners of the properties themselves instruct their real estate agents not to accept either the highest prices or to accept offers from 'grockles?"

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Do you have many rental properties in the joondalup area. you sound like a good landlord, maybe we can keep in touch for a long term rental from FEB 2012

 

cheers

 

chris

 

If my agency was as bad as some of these here I would want to know about it; I pay them $700 to advertise it, plus internet fees, plus they take 8% commission every week, so it's in our best interest to find out whether they're doing a good job as well. Personally I'd piff the ones here and find someone worth the money

we have flights book and rental booked. we are off on 16th Jan 2012. Joondalup area, Perth..:biggrin:

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Guest Rossi0910

Hi ALL

 

What horror stories and really does not fill us with great expectations for when we hit the sunshine coast early next year - is it really as bad as it reads?

 

We would appreciate any hit and tips for renting - all of a sudden - purchasing seems a better option!!

 

Thank you

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Hi Chrisandelaine, sorry, my places are in Mackay and on yearly leases, so i guess they must be happy.

 

To go back a page or two, when you get the condition report off the agent, make sure you go through the house with a fine toothed comb and pick up EVERY crack in the tiles, every flaking bit of laminate at the bottom of the doors and note it on the report and send a copy back to the agent. The agent can claim you did all that damage at the end of the tanancy otherwise (happened to me - they bathroom tiles had a cracked effect glaze, which the agent then claimed I had done. How the **** could I do an completely even crackle over every bathroom tile in a row???).

 

Landlords get tax breaks for the deterioration of the building (it's called a depreciation report) and fully expect there to be wear and tear. A 'reasonable level' is also allowed for by the agent (or should be, some of the agents here sound like they wouldn't consider it).

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I agree wholeheartedly. Renting here sucks. Our life has improved in every other way but we were shocked at how tenants are treated here. We spent two days cleaning our old rental after we had moved all our stuff out and from the way the agent spoke to me you would think we had NEVER cleaned the house! We are buying (at last) a new build we move next may but I am dreading the whole ordeal of moving out here and the inspection. On this tenancy there was a clause that we have to have professional bond cleaners in and they are expensive, our rental house is big 4 beds so the professional clean will be around $600!

We are good clean quiet tenants, never late on rent payments but for 4 years we haven't even been able to put a picture on the wall. In my opinion you are not renting a home but looking after someones investment, they expect it to be the same condition at the end of the tenancy period. Back home THEY would have to pay YOU for the service.

Not impressed at all with the attitude towards tenants. It needs changing, it's a very elitist mindset they have.:mad:

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Guest VickyMel
On this tenancy there was a clause that we have to have professional bond cleaners in and they are expensive, our rental house is big 4 beds so the professional clean will be around $600!

 

 

Now a bit concerned as I know we have to have our carpets professionally steam cleaned. When I asked the leasing agency when we were looking round she said it cost about $600. We only have 2 rooms with carpets I assumed she had meant $60. She also said the tennants usually leave it to the agent to do this for them after they have left - well I scrubbed one of the marks, about the size of a tennis ball, on the carpet (a mark not mentioned on the condition report until I added it) the other day with a bit of water and the mark reduced - no steam cleaning done here then before we moved in!

 

This place was filthy when we first moved in - I sometimes wonder whether the last tenant knew that they would be charged and decided it wasn't worth trying and just decided to forgo getting the bond back.

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It might cost $600 if you leave it in the hands of the agent but they will be pocketing most of that. If you arrange it yourself it will be much cheaper. Just get a receipt from the company you use as evidence for the agent (keep a copy of the receipt for your own records as well).


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Chrisandelaine, sorry, my places are in Mackay and on yearly leases, so i guess they must be happy.

 

To go back a page or two, when you get the condition report off the agent, make sure you go through the house with a fine toothed comb and pick up EVERY crack in the tiles, every flaking bit of laminate at the bottom of the doors and note it on the report and send a copy back to the agent. The agent can claim you did all that damage at the end of the tanancy otherwise (happened to me - they bathroom tiles had a cracked effect glaze, which the agent then claimed I had done. How the **** could I do an completely even crackle over every bathroom tile in a row???).

 

Landlords get tax breaks for the deterioration of the building (it's called a depreciation report) and fully expect there to be wear and tear. A 'reasonable level' is also allowed for by the agent (or should be, some of the agents here sound like they wouldn't consider it).

 

yep, definitely. The agencies DON'T inspect the house, they just check every item on the list as fitted, functioning and no damage, otherwise it costs them time and money to actually do the inspection. This is where the tenant comes in. Our list was over 1000 individual items, even the extra boxes labeled "other" were checked as fitted, functioning and no damage. It took several hours to do the inspection. You have to get on your hands and knees and inspect the carpet inch by inch. Nothing is mentioned on the list, ours had 2 burn holes in the carpet. Almost every item out of the 1000 or so was marked or damaged in some way, but nothing was noted. It's not in their interests to actually do the report properly, as it costs money and they'll want to screw you for every little thing that you miss off the inspection list. Ours even had ridiculous stuff like 'alarm fitted', there clearly is no alarm.

Also, when you move in, don't expect the agency to have emptied all the previous tenants junk out. Ours had 3 shopping trollies in the garage, an old double mattress, and tons of rubbish and cig ends outside. They are not interested.

Then there's the endless outstanding bills, letters from lawyers, debt agencies you get for the previous tenant. Agency isn't interested (even though I bet they kept the bond). Utility companies don't recognize that you live their now and have your own account number with them, they just keep on sending the outstanding bills. We're even getting debt letters for the landlord as they've not paid the water rates. I suggested to the agency they use some of the money they saved by me fixing the ducted heating and dripping tap for free, which they ignored.

 

Is it any wonder some tenants wreck the place.


READ FIRST: please note that my posts are my own personal opinions based on my experiences. These are MY OPINIONS pure and simple, NOT a statement of fact.

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Rickyuu you are exactly right (see my thread at the top of this section for our experience) you do miss one other vital thing....just as you go to sign they put the rent up!!!! Cos they know you like the house and they know you wont bother to lose the house for 10 bucks a week, but imagine that, they are getting 10 bucks a week for every landlord god on their books!

 

It sucks.

 

The only answer is 1) Go home or 2) buy a house

 

Im even more annoyed cos I rent out 2 properties in England and treat our tennants wonderfully.

 

We looked after our last house well but the agent is still screwing us,.

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VickyMel dont steam clean the carpets, dont pay the money cos the agent will just screw you for the money somewhere else anyway. We are going to go to court to get our money back through VCAT, Im not taking any more $hit (its a free service to go to court, so nothing to lose)

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Rickyuu you are exactly right (see my thread at the top of this section for our experience) you do miss one other vital thing....just as you go to sign they put the rent up!!!! Cos they know you like the house and they know you wont bother to lose the house for 10 bucks a week, but imagine that, they are getting 10 bucks a week for every landlord god on their books!

 

It sucks.

 

The only answer is 1) Go home or 2) buy a house

 

Im even more annoyed cos I rent out 2 properties in England and treat our tennants wonderfully.

 

We looked after our last house well but the agent is still screwing us,.

 

Mmmm.. I've just had a quick check around friends and family in Australia. Not a single person has said that this has happened to them or that they've ever heard of this happening to anyone that they know.

 

I'm not saying that this never happens, I'm sure it could happen occasionally, but considering that house prices are falling at the moment, I think your answer 2) buy a house, is bad advice at the moment. Unless you need to stay near a school for your children or other reasons, I'd recommend renting, stick your deposit money in a term deposit account, and buy in a year or so after prices have fallen with an even bigger deposit.

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I presume you are not a tenant trying to find a rental for your family to live in and having to deal with all this stuff.

 

Rikyuu, was the question you put under a previous posting, am I someone who has been a tenant looking for a property? Or someone who was a tenant looking for a property with a family in tow? Answer is yes to having been a tenant going through the emigration to Aus with the added bonus of knowing some Victorian Property Law, and no if you were asking me if I had to go through this process with a family to look out for as well, but I don't think any of the responses I gave make a difference be it family or no family do they? Sorry wrote it a while ago and only just seen your reply.

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Well I have rented 2 properties and it has happened to me on BOTH occassions "yes you can have house, and its blah blah blah" and suddenly its gone up and they dont even say anything until you mention it! They are all crooks.

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Well I have rented 2 properties and it has happened to me on BOTH occassions "yes you can have house, and its blah blah blah" and suddenly its gone up and they dont even say anything until you mention it! They are all crooks.

 

Crooks! Thieves! Every last one of them! If people want to buy now instead of waiting for a year or two and saving a LOT of money, that's no skin off my nose.

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We cant buy now mate, all our "money" is in UK property which doesnt seem to be doing much! What do you think will happen to the market here (we are in Victoria) I dont really have much knowledge of the housing market here, apart from knowing that its cheaper to build you own house (and then I will enjoy coming on here and no doubt moaning about builders!!) I have not heard of anyone building their own home without it being a fairly torturous experience!

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Guest VickyMel
I'm not saying that this never happens, I'm sure it could happen occasionally, but considering that house prices are falling at the moment, I think your answer 2) buy a house, is bad advice at the moment. Unless you need to stay near a school for your children or other reasons, I'd recommend renting, stick your deposit money in a term deposit account, and buy in a year or so after prices have fallen with an even bigger deposit.

 

It is something we have been calculating as well - house prices are dropping - and if we look at the cost of rent compared to investing funds/borrowing it does become more profitable to rent at the moment.

 

Mind you that said I am desperate to hammer nails in walls!

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