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Does anyone else get fed up with these australians continually bleating on about how we shafted them at Gallipoli, an event that took place nearly 100 years ago. Also they lost a total of around sixty thousand during the years 1914 to 1918 we lost 350,000 dead on the Somme July/August 1916. Do you ever here us going on and on and .......

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It is not a problem I have met to be honest. Where do you live?


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Does anyone else get fed up with these australians continually bleating on about how we shafted them at Gallipoli, an event that took place nearly 100 years ago. Also they lost a total of around sixty thousand during the years 1914 to 1918 we lost 350,000 dead on the Somme July/August 1916. Do you ever here us going on and on and .......

 

This might temper your ranting...:laugh:

 

At Gallipoli, volunteers made the difference

 

 

BY BRIAN BROWN

22 Apr, 2009 03:47 PM

IN WORLD War I Australia was the only allied fighting nation at Gallipoli whose army was entirely composed of volunteers, in this regard it was unique.Australia suffered a huge 68.5 per cent casualty rate, proportionally more casualties than any other country.

 

 

Cheers, Bobj.

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This might temper your ranting...:laugh:

 

At Gallipoli, volunteers made the difference

 

 

BY BRIAN BROWN

22 Apr, 2009 03:47 PM

IN WORLD War I Australia was the only allied fighting nation at Gallipoli whose army was entirely composed of volunteers, in this regard it was unique.Australia suffered a huge 68.5 per cent casualty rate, proportionally more casualties than any other country.

 

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

So the life of a volunteer is worth more than the life of someone who was forcibly enlisted?

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So the life of a volunteer is worth more than the life of someone who was forcibly enlisted?

 

Ahh, the volunteers went because they felt it was their duty and were willing to lay down their lives...don'cha know.

 

Cheers, Bobj.

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I'm sorry but even if it was 1 life it's too many. I think all soldiers that died in a war should be remembered.


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I think all soldiers that died in a war should be remembered.

 

Agreed. That's partly why I find the level of obsession with Gallipoli hard to understand. Thousands of ANZAC soldiers have died, in various battles and wars over the years http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/war_casualties/, and yet (obviously this is from an outsiders point of view) it always seems to me, that all the remembrance days/ceremonies are very much centered around Gallipoli, the servicepeople who died in those other battles/wars barely get a look in.

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Agreed. That's partly why I find the level of obsession with Gallipoli hard to understand. Thousands of ANZAC soldiers have died, in various battles and wars over the years http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/war_casualties/, and yet (obviously this is from an outsiders point of view) it always seems to me, that all the remembrance days/ceremonies are very much centered around Gallipoli, the servicepeople who died in those other battles/wars barely get a look in.

 

The reason is here:

 

The campaign was the first major battle undertaken by the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC), and is often considered to mark the birth of national consciousness in both of these countries. Anzac Day, 25 April, remains the most significant commemoration of military casualties and veterans in Australia and New Zealand, surpassing Armistice

 

An extract from Wikipedia.

 

Cheers, Bobj.

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It's nice to get a feeling that Aus actually cares about people who gave up their lives in whatever battle. Admittedly, there seems to be a lot on TV and radio about Gallipoli but I don't find it gets on my nerves at all.

 

My kids are 21 and 16, one born here and one 2 when we came. They would have a good idea about what happened in Gallipoli I reckon and a decent idea of Australias other involvements in the wars.

 

After reading BobJ's explanation about why it gets so much publicity I can understand it. Doesn't make me "fed up" though and I don't think it's "bleating".

 

Always amazes me how many younger people still turn out on Anzac Day here.

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WW1 was essentially a dispute between European Royal families, and these boys volunteered to come from Australia and die for Britain even though many would never have even seen Europe. And you can't see why they're proud of them?

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Guest guest37336

I know it used to be the case that the Aussie cricket team used to make a visit to Gallipoli before coming over here to play for the Ashes.

 

To some it may seem daft, but I would imagine it stirred up the old juices.:yes:

 

ANY death by service personal is to be honoured and remembered, no problem at all with ANY nation doing it, fair play.

 

If not, the loss and sacrifice made by many would disappear into the mists of time, and that would be a sad day indeed.:no:

 

Cheers Tony.:wink:

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The reason is here:

 

The campaign was the first major battle undertaken by the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC), and is often considered to mark the birth of national consciousness in both of these countries. Anzac Day, 25 April, remains the most significant commemoration of military casualties and veterans in Australia and New Zealand, surpassing Armistice

 

An extract from Wikipedia.

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

Quite right Bobj - ANZAC day is about Gallipoli.

 

I think it gets the attention because it was a major Australian action that went very wrong that was under British command. But the British commanders were equally bad at sending their own to the slaughter and this has been noted many times. If anything it's a class thing.

 

Much the same about Breaker Morant. He was an Australian soldier executed by British commanders.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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Guest Sir Les Patterson
Does anyone else get fed up with these australians continually bleating on about how we shafted them at Gallipoli, an event that took place nearly 100 years ago. Also they lost a total of around sixty thousand during the years 1914 to 1918 we lost 350,000 dead on the Somme July/August 1916. Do you ever here us going on and on and .......
You really haven't a clue have you ????

 

My maternal Grandfather was in the 1st AIF (33rd Battalion) and fought on the Somme in 1916-17 and was at Villers-Bretonneux . Luckily he came through relatively unscathed (physically). I have one Uncle who flew Typhoons with 175 Squadron and my father was with the 6th Division in WW2 and fought in North Africa and New Guinea. My Uncle John was a navigator in a Lancaster and lies buried in Durnbach in Bavaria. They all volunteered and fought not only for Australia but also in those days for "England". They didn't have to go but they did.

My own service was not as a volunteer but as a National Serviceman (a conscript) who served in Vietnam in 5RAR. After this I served my country as a pilot in the RAAF flying Mirages and finally the F111. To say I find your comment objectionable would be mild in the extreme. Why don't you grow some balls and go into any RSL club on Anzac Day and voice this sentiment out loud. It would be most amusing to see the reaction.

The risk of getting my response deleted and a rap over the knuckles from the moderators tempers my reply.

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Gallipoli was a disaster of poor intelligence and planning.Maps supplied to the British and Anzacs showed a virtually flat terrain instead of the cliffs hills and ravines that existed,the ammunition of one British regiment didn't fit that of another even though they were 303, they underestimated the Turks and their commander Mustapha Kemal.The architect of the campaign Winston Churchill was forced to resign

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Does anyone else get fed up with these australians continually bleating on about how we shafted them at Gallipoli

 

I personally haven't heard "continual bleating", only a few comments by historians. But you can always mention that the British commanders were evenhanded in shafting their own troops as well.

 

an event that took place nearly 100 years ago

 

100 years is nothing. There are 400+ year old battles in the UK which are commemorated every year.

 

The importance of Gallipoli for Australians is that it was the first significant event in which Australia participated as a country. Fifteen years beforehand Australia did not exist: there were separate colonies which operated like individual countries eg if you transported goods between Victoria and New South Wales you paid customs duty.

 

they lost a total of around sixty thousand during the years 1914 to 1918 we lost 350,000 dead on the Somme July/August 1916.

 

Australia had one tenth of the population of the UK in 1914. Of all the Commonwealth troops Australia sustained the highest percentage of total casualties and deaths.

 

From this point in history we may think what a senseless waste of lives fighting someone else's battles on the other side of the world.

But it is good that a country remembers its history and that its citizens value the lives and experiences of family members who have preceded them.

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Agreed. That's partly why I find the level of obsession with Gallipoli hard to understand. Thousands of ANZAC soldiers have died, in various battles and wars over the years http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/war_casualties/, and yet (obviously this is from an outsiders point of view) it always seems to me, that all the remembrance days/ceremonies are very much centered around Gallipoli, the servicepeople who died in those other battles/wars barely get a look in.

 

You are very much mistaken.

Gallipoli is such a strong symbol because it was the first war for Australia as a nation.

But around Anzac day there will be any number of documentaries, book releases etc. about other conflicts.

 

At our war Cenotaph here in Hobart (and I'm sure at other major war memorials) there are commemorations throughout the year on anniversaries such as the Battle of the Coral Sea, Tobruk, Long Tan (Vietnam), Korean War, the Battle of Crete (attended also by migrants from Crete who now live here), even the Battle of Britain in which Australian pilots participated.

 

I should also add that there is a constant stream of Australian tourists to the WW1 battle sites in France and Belgium.

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We are currently going through the visa process, and in a bid not to look like an ignorant pom i have bought some Australian history books.

I have just read about Gallipoli and it sounded awful, though to be fair the author of the book (an Australian) did say he thought it was strange how Aussies celebrated it when it was a disaster. However now reading your comments i can totally understand why they celebrate it. War is never nice even if you win, there are still innocent lives lost on both sides. Why not celebrate the courage. As for talking about it, come on everyone talks about the wars they were involved in, good or bad. Look at the Normandy landings! Things went bad there and many lives were lost (Many in England still talk about that all the time!).

 

My pet hate is when people come to live in England and dont respect our history and beliefs.

I personally feel that when you go to live in another country you have to embrace their values as well as their weather and lifestyle.

And if you cant embrace it sit tight lipped and accept it.

 

Hope i havent offended anyone with my comment, its just the way i feel.

 

Lou

x


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Guest guest37336
We are currently going through the visa process, and in a bid not to look like an ignorant pom i have bought some Australian history books.

I have just read about Gallipoli and it sounded awful, though to be fair the author of the book (an Australian) did say he thought it was strange how Aussies celebrated it when it was a disaster. However now reading your comments i can totally understand why they celebrate it. War is never nice even if you win, there are still innocent lives lost on both sides. Why not celebrate the courage. As for talking about it, come on everyone talks about the wars they were involved in, good or bad. Look at the Normandy landings! Things went bad there and many lives were lost (Many in England still talk about that all the time!).

 

My pet hate is when people come to live in England and dont respect our history and beliefs.

I personally feel that when you go to live in another country you have to embrace their values as well as their weather and lifestyle.

And if you cant embrace it sit tight lipped and accept it.

Hope i havent offended anyone with my comment, its just the way i feel.

 

Lou

x

 

Hi Lou.

 

Whilst I agree with your post, I particularly agree with the highlighted part. We could sit here all day and pick holes in most things, be it culture, history, ethics, food, weather, but in all honesty all it does in the long run is not only wind the natives up, but maybe more importantly gives ourselves a mindset that is difficult to shake.

 

Cheers Tony.

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This is one of those areas of Australian culture where as a Immigrant we are going to have to tread very carefully. It seems to me that ANZAC day is very much part of the Australian identity, to us there are customs that are going to seem very much out of place and maybe a bit disrespectful, but to the average Ozzie part and parcel of the day. Gunfire Breakfast (Coffee with a shot of Rum) and the playing of Two Up (Oz Gambling game using coins) would definitely be frowned upon if it were associated with Remembrance Day in other Commonwealth countries. I would prefer a more Solemn occasion for remembering the fallen and I suppose that for an outsider ANZAC day seems to suffer from an Identity crisis, is it a celebration or a commemoration? To me, from the outside it has the appearance of Australia day and Rememberer Day rolled into one, but first hand experience is going to be needed before a final opinion can be formed.

 

 

From the research that I have done, that atmosphere of ANZAC day (Please correct me if I'm wrong) is of a carnival nature with many wearing Australian Sports kit and face painting. I find this to be a bit disconcerting as I do not feel that war should be trivialised in this way. I supposed it has a lot to do with people that have not experienced war and its consequences, not thinking their actions through.

 

 

People have forgotten what these days are really about and it is not only the Ozzies that are guilty of this. Although kids are taught at school that it is about those soldiers that have given up their lives and others that have fought for our so called “Freedom”, there seems to be a dissociation from what it actually means. Nobody teaches you that it is about your Grand Father not wanting to talk about the War, grown men that have trouble sleeping, families that have been ripped apart and us, as generations that have come after saying “Thank You”. It took and episode of “American Pickers” of all TV programmes for me to realise this, Mike Wolfe one of the pickers said to an America World War II veteran (with regards to the War) something along the lines of “Thank you for all that you have done for us, we really appreciate it”. I thought to myself that I have never thanked anyone of these men myself for their sacrifice and I felt a bit ashamed.

 

 

Now please don't get me wrong I do not condone war, but I do support those soldiers that fight on behalf of us, even though their views and the powers that command them may be flawed. I would also like to see us paying homage to those soldiers of our “enemies” for doing what they thought was right, fighting for their country and protection of their families, unfortunately we do not do it enough. (Watch the movies Flags of Our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima to see what I mean). A lot can be learnt by putting ourselves others shoes.

 

 

In 1934 Mustafa Kemal – Atatürk commander of the Ottomans 19th Division (at Gallipoli) wrote a tribute to the ANZACs killed at Gallipoli which is particular fitting to illustrate the lack of difference in humanity of our and the enemies soldiers

 

 

"Those heroes that shed their blood

And lost their lives.

You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.

Therefore rest in peace.

There is no difference between the Johnnies

And the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side

Here in this country of ours.

You, the mothers,

Who sent their sons from far away countries

Wipe away your tears,

Your sons are now lying in our bosom

And are in peace

After having lost their lives on this land they have

Become our sons as well."

 

 

I don't think that my kids or I will ever really understand that significance of ANZAC day the way that People born in Australia do, but maybe our grand children will. So I will probably spend a quite day at home and respect Australia's need to tell the world of its Sacrifice.


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in a bid not to look like an ignorant pom i have bought some Australian history books.

 

I think that is a very thoughtful thing to do. A country is a sum of its geography and history and knowledge of both is necessary to understand why a nation has developed in a certain way.

 

However now reading your comments i can totally understand why they celebrate it.

 

Probably commemorating, rather than celebrating. Remembering and reflecting on the terrible events in the lives of one's ancestors and the way they dealt with conditions we could not imagine today. And hoping to learn from their experiences so we are not forced to go through similar.

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From the research that I have done, that atmosphere of ANZAC day (Please correct me if I'm wrong) is of a carnival nature with many wearing Australian Sports kit and face painting

 

???? Never seen that. Anzac Day Services are held at dawn and also later in the morning.

After midday there may be sports fixtures, but that too is seen as something quintessentially Australian.

Australian servicemen have managed to concoct sporting fixtures in the most improbable locations during wartime service.

 

And as for the two up game - that is part of the tradition as it was played extensively by Anzacs in WW1.

 

It is a solemn day - but "solemn" is expressed differently in different cultures. Think about Irish wakes. They are held on solemn occasions but can't be described as solemn. There is a strong Irish influence in the Australian character.

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Guest Hatton

All should be remembered, it is quite sad that some people still bring up things that happened so long ago, mistakes will always be made in wars in the past and in the future...let's all stop the rather sad bickering about what happened and just remember the brave young men that gave the ultimate for their respective Countries.

They will not be forgotten.

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I have no objections what so ever about the amount of times Gallipoli is mentioned.

Anzac Day Dawn Service is something the whole community embraces,as it should be.Defence personnel are much admired and respected over here.I stood proudly with my husband at the Adelaide River service this year.The amount of strangers that came and shook our hands and said thank you was overwhelming,it moved me to tears.At the showground for breakfast after the ceremony lots of the older generation came to offer my hubby drinks and the youngsters all wanted photos.

National Pride is alive and kicking here in Australia.


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???? Never seen that. Anzac Day Services are held at dawn and also later in the morning.

After midday there may be sports fixtures, but that too is seen as something quintessentially Australian.

Australian servicemen have managed to concoct sporting fixtures in the most improbable locations during wartime service.

 

And as for the two up game - that is part of the tradition as it was played extensively by Anzacs in WW1.

 

It is a solemn day - but "solemn" is expressed differently in different cultures. Think about Irish wakes. They are held on solemn occasions but can't be described as solemn. There is a strong Irish influence in the Australian character.

 

 

I was particularly referring to instances like in the article below:

 

 

 

 

Was the ceremony at Anzac Cove appropriate?

 

SOME fear Anzac Day is becoming more a celebration for the young people who attend than a commemoration of the cost of war. Before the dawn service this year, music videos were played to entertain the crowd. Some feel it created an inappro-priate party atmosphere. The Bee Gees' Stayin' Alive has been particularly criticised as a choice of song at the site of so many deaths. Although alcohol is banned along the Gallipoli peninsula, many still drink and party at their camps along the site. "It reminds me of the Big Day Out," one person was quoted as saying about last year's event. People were also drinking and napping among headstones. But others have defended the behaviour at the site as being a warm reflection of the larrikinism for which the young Australians who died at Gallipoli were known.

 

http://education.theage.com.au/cmspage.php?intid=135&intversion=136

 

 

I also feel that the following is also a illustration of fact that people do not really know the true meaning of the day. The language used is that same as is used for advertising sporting fixtures and trivialises the soldiers sacrifice and seems to be “Cashing in” Honestly the whole idea just leaves me cold.

 

 

Plans revealed to hold a rugby league Test match between Australia and New Zealand at Gallipoli

 

It's the small stretch of sand and treacherous cliff face where young soldiers were killed but a legend and bond between two nations were cemented forever.

 

Now, Gallipoli is poised to be the setting of a new Anzac legend with plans well advanced to hold a rugby league Test match between the Kangaroos and Kiwis in Turkey in 2015

 

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/plans-revealed-to-hold-a-rugby-league-test-match-between-australia-and-new-zealand-at-gallipoli/story-fn2mcuhw-1226050203774

 

 

 

Funny enough I was thinking about “Irish Wakes” when I was writing my last post, so do understand where you are coming from. It just shows us soon to be Immigrants will have a lot to learn. The attitudes of the Ozzies in respect to ANZAC day are the same attitudes we admire in other situations and have made Australia more attractive to us.


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