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elderberry

Help! Accountant Work Experience (lodging after July 1st)

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Hi,

Would be grateful for any advice, getting really worried now. I thought that I would just about meet the 65 points on the new points system.

I've had my skills assesed by CPA Australia before July 1st and that has come back completed. I only became a qualifed accountant at the end of May this year (last exam passed May 2010).

I needed to claim 5 points for my 3 years work experience, since my role as a Finance Manager is in line with that of a qualified accountant.

However, I now read that DIAC are expecting the work experience to be verified as part of the skills assessment, and looking on the CPA website this says they will only count POST qualifed work experience - which for me is 4 weeks!

I've checked out IPA and theirs also says post qualified is all that counts.

So, I'm now 5 points short. Any advice? I've thought about state sponsorship but that will probably change now too.

Please help, think my dreams may be over right now:no:


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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Hi,

Would be grateful for any advice, getting really worried now. I thought that I would just about meet the 65 points on the new points system.

I've had my skills assesed by CPA Australia before July 1st and that has come back completed. I only became a qualifed accountant at the end of May this year (last exam passed May 2010).

I needed to claim 5 points for my 3 years work experience, since my role as a Finance Manager is in line with that of a qualified accountant.

However, I now read that DIAC are expecting the work experience to be verified as part of the skills assessment, and looking on the CPA website this says they will only count POST qualifed work experience - which for me is 4 weeks!

I've checked out IPA and theirs also says post qualified is all that counts.

So, I'm now 5 points short. Any advice? I've thought about state sponsorship but that will probably change now too.

Please help, think my dreams may be over right now

 

To claim work experience points, the work experience has to be post qualifications. This has always been the case.


Raul T Senise

Registered Migration Agent

MARN 0636699

www.ozimmigration.com

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

 

 

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Guest Lori2011
Hi,

Would be grateful for any advice, getting really worried now. I thought that I would just about meet the 65 points on the new points system.

I've had my skills assesed by CPA Australia before July 1st and that has come back completed. I only became a qualifed accountant at the end of May this year (last exam passed May 2010).

I needed to claim 5 points for my 3 years work experience, since my role as a Finance Manager is in line with that of a qualified accountant.

However, I now read that DIAC are expecting the work experience to be verified as part of the skills assessment, and looking on the CPA website this says they will only count POST qualifed work experience - which for me is 4 weeks!

I've checked out IPA and theirs also says post qualified is all that counts.

So, I'm now 5 points short. Any advice? I've thought about state sponsorship but that will probably change now too.

Please help, think my dreams may be over right now:no:

Don't worry, if you are only 5 points short, try for a SS. Try everything before giving up.

 

good luck!

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can you please post link to what you are saying?


ICAA Skills assessment as Accountant: 11/09, Applied 175 CSL Jan '10, IELTS: 8.5 overall, CO: 03/10, Medicals Fin. 04/10, Internal checks: Completed, Stuck with external checks. :mad: Meds Again: 7/11, Grant: 5/9/11!!! :D

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can you please post link to what you are saying?

 

Sure - this is the amended section on the CPA website :

 

Points Test (including Skilled Employment)

 

From 1 July 2011 the Department of Immigration and Citizenship will be applying a new points test for skilled migration. CPA Australia will provide advice regarding skilled employment and academic qualifications in your relevant nominated skilled occupation.

If you wish to have your skilled employment and academic qualifications assessed for the purposes of awarding points, complete a migration assessment application and provide certified true copies of your skilled employment references/ testimonials along with your formal academic qualifications and IELTS Academic Test Report Form.

CPA Australia will complete an assessment of your qualifications for skilled migration. If you have been assessed as suitable for your nominated occupation, we will include an assessment of your relevant skilled employment and provide advice regarding the educational level of your academic qualification/s. Please note skilled employment is undertaken after completion of a relevant academic qualification/s and is relevant to your nominated occupation.

 

The underlined sentence is new to the criteria for counting work experience (wasn't in the requirement of DIAC when applying for points directly prior to July 1st 2011)


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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I don't think that is the case. There are people who have managed to have experience before qualification count towards the work experience requirement in accountancy. There are examples of that from other people on here. I also checked this with a few migration agents just a few months ago. The criteria did not state before that only post qualification experience counted.

 

 

From Migration Policy on the subject

 

"18.6 When is an applicant skilled

Skilled on basis of educational qualifications

An applicant is taken to be capable of undertaking work at a skilled level only after they have met the entry level requirements for that occupation.

If the entry level prescribed for the applicant’s nominated occupation is a certain qualification only work undertaken after the applicant has completed that qualification will be counted as skilled employment."

 

and

 

"18.7 Importance of this date for visa purposes

The date an applicant met the Australian entry level requirement for their occupation, as prescribed by the assessing body or determined in accordance with the guidelines above, is the date from which an applicant can acquire skilled work experience in that occupation. Until that time, the applicant is in fact learning the job, albeit while on-the-job. They cannot therefore normally be assessed as performing the job at a skilled level"

 

and

 

"18.8 Working while studying

It is possible for student visa holders to meet the definition of employed. However, care should be taken in determining whether this employment was at the skilled level:

• applicants must meet the entry level qualification as specified in ANZSCO (for example, a certificate III including at least two years of on-the-job training for a Carpenter, or a bachelor degree for an Accountant), before any work undertaken in that industry is considered to be skilled

• a student who has been undertaking part-time work experience while completing an entry level qualification the work experience would generally be at the semi-skilled rather than the skilled level."


Raul T Senise

Registered Migration Agent

MARN 0636699

www.ozimmigration.com

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

 

 

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From Migration Policy on the subject

 

"18.6 When is an applicant skilled

Skilled on basis of educational qualifications

An applicant is taken to be capable of undertaking work at a skilled level only after they have met the entry level requirements for that occupation.

If the entry level prescribed for the applicant’s nominated occupation is a certain qualification only work undertaken after the applicant has completed that qualification will be counted as skilled employment."

 

and

 

"18.7 Importance of this date for visa purposes

The date an applicant met the Australian entry level requirement for their occupation, as prescribed by the assessing body or determined in accordance with the guidelines above, is the date from which an applicant can acquire skilled work experience in that occupation. Until that time, the applicant is in fact learning the job, albeit while on-the-job. They cannot therefore normally be assessed as performing the job at a skilled level"

 

and

 

"18.8 Working while studying

It is possible for student visa holders to meet the definition of employed. However, care should be taken in determining whether this employment was at the skilled level:

• applicants must meet the entry level qualification as specified in ANZSCO (for example, a certificate III including at least two years of on-the-job training for a Carpenter, or a bachelor degree for an Accountant), before any work undertaken in that industry is considered to be skilled

• a student who has been undertaking part-time work experience while completing an entry level qualification the work experience would generally be at the semi-skilled rather than the skilled level."

 

Are you saying then, that if someone completed all their exams 5 years ago (what used to be passed finalist) but was yet to have the practical experience signed off to become a member of the institute, then their work experience is zero years?


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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Just get state sponsored - end of problem


Chris (29) & Sarah (28) - IELTS March 10. Skills Assessed April'10. SS rec'd April'11. Cat 2 176 lodged May'11, CO June'11, granted 25/07/11

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Guest AustrAnglian

Hi, just one additional thought using my own experience as an example:

 

I obtained my skills assessment from ICAA in March 2010 which was valid for 2 years. At that point there were no IELTS requirements for skills assessments, but this was introduced for accountants after this date on 1 July 2010. However, this new requirement only applied to new applicants for skills assessments. My original skills assessment was still valid for my visa lodgement in October 2010 even though I had not met the new requirements. I would only have to meet the new requirements if the skills assessment lapsed after 2 years and I had to re-apply.

 

If the same logic is applied here then anyone applying for an accountant skills assessment today needs to prove post-qual experience, but anyone with a valid skills assessment already has the points for their DIAC lodgement.

 

DIAC's work experience requirements may be different and may allow relevant pre-qualification experience to be counted. I'm not overly familiar with the new points test but my point here is that you need to meet DIACs definition of work experience and not CPAAs. All the best.

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Hi, just one additional thought using my own experience as an example:

 

I obtained my skills assessment from ICAA in March 2010 which was valid for 2 years. At that point there were no IELTS requirements for skills assessments, but this was introduced for accountants after this date on 1 July 2010. However, this new requirement only applied to new applicants for skills assessments. My original skills assessment was still valid for my visa lodgement in October 2010 even though I had not met the new requirements. I would only have to meet the new requirements if the skills assessment lapsed after 2 years and I had to re-apply.

 

If the same logic is applied here then anyone applying for an accountant skills assessment today needs to prove post-qual experience, but anyone with a valid skills assessment already has the points for their DIAC lodgement.

 

DIAC's work experience requirements may be different and may allow relevant pre-qualification experience to be counted. I'm not overly familiar with the new points test but my point here is that you need to meet DIACs definition of work experience and not CPAAs. All the best.

but if we look closely.. nothing really has changed is it?

 

To assess your qualification is a SEPERATE action - This gives you points for nominated occupation

To assess your work experience is a SEPERATE action - This gives you points for skilled employment.

 

These both are exclusive events. Even if you have only 1 years experience (post qual).. you are still eligible for the visa but will get 0 points.

 

And here's a scenario where you can have 65 points.. even if you don't 3 years work experience post qual.

 

so if one is 25 years old - 30 points

8 ielts band (in all four) - 20

equivalent to bachelors degree - 15 points

1year experience - 0 points

 

That's 65 points for you.

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ICAA Skills assessment as Accountant: 11/09, Applied 175 CSL Jan '10, IELTS: 8.5 overall, CO: 03/10, Medicals Fin. 04/10, Internal checks: Completed, Stuck with external checks. :mad: Meds Again: 7/11, Grant: 5/9/11!!! :D

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Thanks to everyone for your advice, still not sure what my options are though.

 

Here is my scenario:

Age - 39 - 25 Points -(reducing to 15 points if lodged after April 2012)

8 Band IELTS - 20 Points

Degree - 15 Points - Already recognised by CPA as Australian equivalent

 

So that currently gives me 60 Points and Skill Assesment completed for Management Accountant 221112.

 

In terms of Accountancy qualification, I passed my last exam in May 2010 and had the log book signed off in May 2011 (Since I had to wait for 3 years practical experience with one employer, previous employer no longer exists)

 

In terms of work experience, I have worked in Finance for 4 years 3 months, of which just over 3 years is at the level of Finance Manager with one employer. Checking with the ANZSCO Coding, I believed that this would be suitable Work Experience, but maybe not now.

 

So, I'm 5 points short! I thought that I could apply for State sponsorship if needed, but South Australia is still offline and will be reopened when they 'take account of the changes from July 1st'. My worry is that this will now mean all State Sponsorship will require the work experience confirmed by the skills assesor before they consider you. That being the case, CPA Australia stipulate that work experience prior to qualification will not count.

 

So, the question is, based on the above do you think there is a way forward, or, am I scuppered? I really hope not.


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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Guest AustrAnglian

Elderberry, this is the relevant page you need to look at:

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/175/eligibility-specific-experience.htm

It does say that DIAC MAY refer to the assessing authority for an opinion on work experience but it doesn't say this is mandatory. It also doesn't mention anywhere on the page that the experience has to be post-qualification. It may be up to you to document in detail your relevant pre-qual experience and why it should count as relevant to (and up to the level of your) qualification.

 

You have qualified as what I'd refer to as a mature student, so in that case you shouldn't be seen in the same light as a 22 year old getting their first job out of university. Most mature students gain their experience first then get the qualifications to back it up later, instead of the other way around. If you can demonstrate this you may be OK.

 

Note that this is just a personal opinion from a fellow accountant. I'd recommend you speak to a Registered Migration Agent to get sound professional advice. Alan Collett may be your best bet here as he's also a fellow accountant who is frequently recommended on this forum, although there are many good RMAs who also post on this forum. In your case I think it's worth the consultation to get it right before you lose age points. Hope that helps and all the best.

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Thanks AustrAnglian, your efforts are much appreciated!

Your view is along the same lines as mine, I have pm'd Alan Collett earlier today.

Yes, definately a mature student lol! I changed careers at 34. Because I was quite experienced but in a different area before this, I was able to progress quickly in my finance career, ahead of the time it took to take all the exams.

Alas, age is against me now - can't believe the four zero is getting near, even though in my mind it is an irrelevance, but then I'm not the DIAC!

Thanks again mate


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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Guest chon00

I want to share my scenario as I am new in this blog and don't know whether it is a right place to post it. But seems to me you guys are really researching a lot about Australia migration and I hope I will be able to get answers of all of my questions!

 

Age - 25 so I can claim 30 points here.

8 Band IELTS( each component having 8) - 20 Points

MSc Civil Engineering Degree(London, UK) - 15 Points - Already recognised by Engineers Australia.

 

Total points= 65 (pass mark is 65)

 

But the only thing is that, I have graduated on June 2008. Then I worked for a construction company in Bangladesh for six months as site engineer. After that, I went to UK for my MSc. After getting MSc degree I joined the same university as Part Time Lecturer in Civil Engineering and worked for 9 months. This month I joined another university in Malaysia as permanent lecturer. Will this work experience work?? As it is not a 3 years overseas work experience, I cannot claim any point here. THE ONLY THING IS THAT, I DO HAVE 65 POINTS WITHOUT SHOWING WORK EXPERIENCE!

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME GIVING YOUR ADVICE WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW???

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I want to share my scenario as I am new in this blog and don't know whether it is a right place to post it. But seems to me you guys are really researching a lot about Australia migration and I hope I will be able to get answers of all of my questions!

 

Age - 25 so I can claim 30 points here.

8 Band IELTS( each component having 8) - 20 Points

MSc Civil Engineering Degree(London, UK) - 15 Points - Already recognised by Engineers Australia.

 

Total points= 65 (pass mark is 65)

 

But the only thing is that, I have graduated on June 2008. Then I worked for a construction company in Bangladesh for six months as site engineer. After that, I went to UK for my MSc. After getting MSc degree I joined the same university as Part Time Lecturer in Civil Engineering and worked for 9 months. This month I joined another university in Malaysia as permanent lecturer. Will this work experience work?? As it is not a 3 years overseas work experience, I cannot claim any point here. THE ONLY THING IS THAT, I DO HAVE 65 POINTS WITHOUT SHOWING WORK EXPERIENCE!

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME GIVING YOUR ADVICE WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW???

exactly.. i had the same question. can anyone asnwer this?

 

There's a basic recent work experience requirement.. but it doesn't specify that it has to be 3 years in terms of non australian employment.


ICAA Skills assessment as Accountant: 11/09, Applied 175 CSL Jan '10, IELTS: 8.5 overall, CO: 03/10, Medicals Fin. 04/10, Internal checks: Completed, Stuck with external checks. :mad: Meds Again: 7/11, Grant: 5/9/11!!! :D

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Don't get confused guys, you are mixing up two different things!

 

I was looking at 3 years overseas work experience in order to gain the 5 points needed to take me from 60 to 65 points it's not what would be needed for everyone.

 

Under the rules before July 1st, you needed a minimum of 12 months out of the 24 before lodging of work experience in your occupation or one closely relating (same category of ANZSCO coding) to be considered for GSM - that being a minimum of 20 hours per week. This is what has caught some people out so it seems such as those who have had maternity leave. However, from July 1st they are looking at your work experience over 10 years.

What I can't find though is any mention of a minimum work experience requirement on the DIAC website. On the face of it, it looks like you could get away with no experience provided you can gain the points elsewhere, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

 

Can anyone else find this info on DIAC?


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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Don't get confused guys, you are mixing up two different things!

 

I was looking at 3 years overseas work experience in order to gain the 5 points needed to take me from 60 to 65 points it's not what would be needed for everyone.

 

Under the rules before July 1st, you needed a minimum of 12 months out of the 24 before lodging of work experience in your occupation or one closely relating (same category of ANZSCO coding) to be considered for GSM - that being a minimum of 20 hours per week. This is what has caught some people out so it seems such as those who have had maternity leave. However, from July 1st they are looking at your work experience over 10 years.

What I can't find though is any mention of a minimum work experience requirement on the DIAC website. On the face of it, it looks like you could get away with no experience provided you can gain the points elsewhere, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

 

Can anyone else find this info on DIAC?

I have tried finding but couldn't find anything.


ICAA Skills assessment as Accountant: 11/09, Applied 175 CSL Jan '10, IELTS: 8.5 overall, CO: 03/10, Medicals Fin. 04/10, Internal checks: Completed, Stuck with external checks. :mad: Meds Again: 7/11, Grant: 5/9/11!!! :D

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I have tried finding but couldn't find anything.

 

Maybe there is no minimum work experience requirement now?

 

It's interesting - on http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/pdf/points-test.pdf

 

It shows the sentence ' have been employed in a skilled occupation for at least 12 months in 24 months before the application is lodged' with reference to points for your partner, but for the main applicant it only says 'provide evidence of recent skilled employment in a skilled occupation' but no minima


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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there's a work experience requirement. but not sure how much.


ICAA Skills assessment as Accountant: 11/09, Applied 175 CSL Jan '10, IELTS: 8.5 overall, CO: 03/10, Medicals Fin. 04/10, Internal checks: Completed, Stuck with external checks. :mad: Meds Again: 7/11, Grant: 5/9/11!!! :D

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I've found the answer if you look at this updated booklet:

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1119.pdf

 

ON page 8 it says that you need 12 months in the last 24 months i.e. a standard requirement for the gsm rather than for specific points


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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Are you saying then, that if someone completed all their exams 5 years ago (what used to be passed finalist) but was yet to have the practical experience signed off to become a member of the institute, then their work experience is zero years?

 

No, I am not saying that at all.


Raul T Senise

Registered Migration Agent

MARN 0636699

www.ozimmigration.com

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

 

 

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No, I am not saying that at all.

 

OK, I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you posted

best regards


IELTS Academic 19/03/2011 Overall 8.5 | Skills Assessed CPA 18/06/11 | NSW State Sponsorship 19/09/11 | 176 Visa Lodged 06/10/11| CO Assigned 24/10/11| Police checks loaded 11/11/11| Medical 11/11/11, finalised 18/11/11, VISA GRANTED 21/11/11. Arrived 17/11/16 and settled in Melbourne

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There seems to be much confusion about the definition of “skilled” employment experience in this thread.

 

If you are claiming points for employment experience, that experience must be at a skilled level. When you become skilled in any given occupation will be determined by the skill level requirement for that occupation by ANZCO.

 

The point is that you cannot instantly become skilled in an occupation and each occupation will require a certain qualification or amount of employment experience before you can claim to be “skilled”. For example, you cannot claim to be working as an Engineer if you have not completed at least a Bachelor qualification in engineering.

 

This has always been the case. All that has changed under the new system, is that new skills assessments will list the period of “skilled” employment experience a person has.


Raul T Senise

Registered Migration Agent

MARN 0636699

www.ozimmigration.com

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

 

 

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You do not need to be a qualified accountant to pass the skills assessment (I think you should have to be but that's just my opinion) I've seen many postings on this site from non-quals who have been able to get positive skills assessments. Skilled experience runs from when you have attained the "entry level qualification" in your profession. Since non-quals can get positive skills assessments clearly an accounting qualification is not considered to be the entry level.

 

Your skilled experience from the date you did attain your entry level qualification (whether that be an accounting degree, a non-accounting degree plus a graduate conversion course, or an AAT qualification or something else) and that is what you should claim for.


Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia)

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Guest Abbottone

I think I'm in the same situation as Elderberry (My point's structure are as follows: Age: 25 points; English Language: 20 points; Educational Qualifications: 15, a total of 60 points)

 

My confusion surrounds the work experience part. I qualified AAT in 1999, I've been an accountant for the last 15 years and I only recently qualified as CIMA in May 2011. I had previous thought that the 5 points award (worded as) "3 years experience in last 5 in skilled occupation or related occupation" basically took into account the unqualified time but CPA say that "only post qualified experience will be considered in assessing points for the visa" and the wording of the application July onwards now says "Skilled occupation or a closely related SKILLED occupation"...so that leads me to believe that all work experience until I got my qualification in May 2011 is nul-in-void.

 

Luckily I am now able to go ahead and work another 3 years to get those points but I dont know if my sanity will last that long....I might have to move to the States just so I can get out of London.

 

I hope you manage to find a solution Elderberry! (and all in same situation)

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