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Guest Fabian

Subclass 119 Condition 2 years. Where to find the condition ?!

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Guest Fabian

Hi guys,

 

I am just flipping through my passport and was reading the label for my just approved SC119 visa. I was reading on the DIAC website that you must stay employed for 2 years and that your visa might be subject to cancellation and all that stuff...I think everyone knows it by now.

 

Weird thing is though that when I look on the label there is no condition on it and the same applies to the online E-business check website where you type in your passport details,DOB and so on. When I click on "Entitlement" it comes up with no conditions either. It only says AN, subclass 119, Permanent resident , Indefinite stay. In my PR grant letter on the other hand it says that the visa might be subject to cancellation when my employment ceases within 2 years.

Well, thats a bit different than what I was reading on the DIAC website. There it says that when I am out of control it wont need to fear cancellation. Different words in my letter...there is not in - or out of controll.

 

Is the SC119 having a condition by regulation already and DIAC doesn't have to set it out when issueing the visa ? On the other hand I remember my student visa was also bound to many restrictions and conditions...and they were all listed.

Anyone with the same situation ?

 

EDIT : I forgot to mention that I have worked , so far, the last 2 years in the ACT as a Cook (my sponsored position). But only 1 years was full time out of this. The other year was part time. I have proven these years by accurate work references to the CO. In total I have worked 3 years in the ACT before the PR was granted. Might that have be a reason ?

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Hi guys,

 

I am just flipping through my passport and was reading the label for my just approved SC119 visa. I was reading on the DIAC website that you must stay employed for 2 years and that your visa might be subject to cancellation and all that stuff...I think everyone knows it by now.

 

Weird thing is though that when I look on the label there is no condition on it and the same applies to the online E-business check website where you type in your passport details,DOB and so on. When I click on "Entitlement" it comes up with no conditions either. It only says AN, subclass 119, Permanent resident , Indefinite stay. In my PR grant letter on the other hand it says that the visa might be subject to cancellation when my employment ceases within 2 years.

Well, thats a bit different than what I was reading on the DIAC website. There it says that when I am out of control it wont need to fear cancellation. Different words in my letter...there is not in - or out of controll.

 

Is the SC119 having a condition by regulation already and DIAC doesn't have to set it out when issueing the visa ? On the other hand I remember my student visa was also bound to many restrictions and conditions...and they were all listed.

Anyone with the same situation ?

 

EDIT : I forgot to mention that I have worked , so far, the last 2 years in the ACT as a Cook (my sponsored position). But only 1 years was full time out of this. The other year was part time. I have proven these years by accurate work references to the CO. In total I have worked 3 years in the ACT before the PR was granted. Might that have be a reason ?

 

There is no such condition to be imposed, so you are unlikely to find it.


Westly Russell Registered Migration Agent 0316072 www.pinoyau.com

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Guest Fabian

If it is no condition how can I breach it then by not complying with it ?

Or lets say, What am I am breaching then (if not a condition) that gives DIAC the right to consider the cancellation of a visa ?

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If it is no condition how can I breach it then by not complying with it ?

Or lets say, What am I am breaching then (if not a condition) that gives DIAC the right to consider the cancellation of a visa ?

 

A false claim that you intended to work as described, when in fact you did not.

 

As far as I know nobody has ever had a visa cancelled cancelled for this.


Westly Russell Registered Migration Agent 0316072 www.pinoyau.com

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Guest cowboy

mate, i also receiently granted pr using Rsms and that is on shore 857visa.in the visa letter granted by my case office it states 1) to commence employemnet withing six months 2) remain in the nominated position for 2 yrs. the visa may b cancelled if you do not follow the obligations.

When i went to immigration to put the pr label on my passport i also find no condition there.

it says can stay indifenetly and the conditon were NILL.

 

im also confused whether i hv to stay for the whole two years in the prison or free to move ..

If u find any thing in future please post.

 

Thanks.

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Guest Fabian

My agent was telling me today that when you have made resonable effort to stay in that position than DIAC wont consider the cancellation. Now, the question is what is resonable ? 1 year ? 6 months ? Stay employed until you are half dead because of the overtime you have worked ?

 

Then my agent mentioned that he is not awar of any RSMS cancellations. Probably its just to scare us migrants so we don't move into the big cities.

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Guest cowboy
My agent was telling me today that when you have made resonable effort to stay in that position than DIAC wont consider the cancellation. Now, the question is what is resonable ? 1 year ? 6 months ? Stay employed until you are half dead because of the overtime you have worked ?

 

Then my agent mentioned that he is not awar of any RSMS cancellations. Probably its just to scare us migrants so we don't move into the big cities.

 

Hi Fabian,

its good to know from your agent that he is not awar of any rsms cancellation.

i am in a position where i m extermly unhappy. i am treated badly by the employer and the staffs of my orginazation.i am not given to work full time hours and other facilites and benifites are far..not provided superannuantion .or sick leave.not penalty rates on public holiday.mate i am doing 3 ppl work and still cant satisfy my boss.

i have worked for the company for 5 months before my pr..and its been one month since i hv been granted a parmanent residency..i am doing my best and put every effort still its not working..

im planning to go diac and let them know about my situation and ask them if i leave wht are the consiquence..but sacred at the same time if they take my pr away from me..

its sucks ..when u hv done everyting and it dosent works..

please suggest me wht do u think abt my case ..hv i made genuine effort or not?

thanks

 

cowboy:arghh:

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Guest Fabian

Well, I can't tell you much because I am not a lawyer or an agent.

 

However I know that stuff like super,any kind of leave and full time work is NOT provided its a breach of contract from the employer side. Which means your can actually leave your position without fearing that DIAC cancels your visa. Still, I would double check with DIAC.

Get as much paperwork together as you can. Get payslips, timesheets and witnesses if neccessary and take the complaint to DIAC because what you are saying is acutally an offence in Australia as it has to be provided by law.

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Guest sian brownbridge

Fabian, I really loved your timeline. My husband has just had RCB approved and have lodged nomination today. Is it usually the case that the position must be taken up within 6 months, and if so is this from the date of approved nomination or approved final visa.

Thanks Sian

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Guest emmamx

I recently joined the forum, and I'm also a migrant under 119 visa, I've been reading your posts and I've noticed that all of us (migrants under RSMS visas) have the same fears, the same questions and the same problems at work, have you noticed that? I thought I was wrong or maybe I wasn't good enough for my job, but I work my ass off and still they're always threatening me with losing my visa, I've been feeling really scared of loosing my residence and everything I've fought for, I don't know what to do, please help me, any advice?

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Guest Fabian

"but I work my ass off and still they're always threatening me with losing my visa, I've been feeling really scared of loosing my residence and everything I've fought for, I don't know what to do, please help me, any advice?"

 

Get evidence and witnesses for this claim and take your issue to DIAC. You could probably leave anyway and if the company reports you then you have proof :)

Otherwise, get a lawyer.

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Guest emmamx

Hi everyone, be aware this is not to scare migrants off, I found in the Migration Act 1958 section 137R that if you're on a sponsored visa you have to stay in the job for 2 years or your visa may be revoked. Here is the paragraph and the link where you can download the law.

 

Employment terminates within 2 years

 

(2) The Minister may cancel a regional sponsored employment visa held by a person if:

(a) the Minister is satisfied that:

(i) the person commenced the employment referred to in the relevant employer nomination (whether or not within the period prescribed by the regulations); and

(ii) the employment terminated within the period (the required employment period) of 2 years starting on the day the person commenced that employment; and

(b) the person does not satisfy the Minister that he or she has made a genuine effort to be engaged in that employment for the required employment period.

 

link: (if the link doesn't work just Google Migration ACt 1958, it will be the first in appear)

 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/

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Guest Fabian

Emmamx :

Section 137R is talking about something different.

You mean 137Q.

 

also : "b) the person does not satisfy the Minister that he or she has made a genuine effort to be engaged in that employment for the required employment period"

That is a VERY tricky thing. I will bet another $100 that at least 90 % of RSMS visa holders can easily prove that they have made a genuine effort by working their ar*** off for their sponsor but the sponsor keeps using and abusing them.

Threatening to cancel a sponsorship is actually illegal by the way :)

 

If the employee has done everything possible to stay employed the minister will very likely not cancel your visa. And this can be proven with people who have left the position within the 2 years and nothing happened. I actually know 2 of them here in Canberra. They have worked overtime constantly, which is against the law if you are not getting paid for that or no extra leave, so the employer has breached the contract.

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Guest elvaretta

:biggrin:news

I have same condition with you guys,

Then I made a friend with DIAC officer, I visited her for dinner and she gave me little secret about 119 visa condition. Briefly, However, there is two years condition as genuie effort, immigration wont cancel permant visa and never happened since australia's flag fly. it may take in case if the employer report to immigration office. BUT, cancelling permanent visa is not as easy as flip a hand. immigration may take win win solution instead of revoke the visa. Well, more explanation about why those condition mentioned there? she said," to prevent people abusing it and government expect to develop regional area with skill migrant."

She just gave us little clue of it that time, so I bought one box of drink and let her drunk then, to say thanks.:biglaugh:

 

 

Well, I can't tell you much because I am not a lawyer or an agent.

 

However I know that stuff like super,any kind of leave and full time work is NOT provided its a breach of contract from the employer side. Which means your can actually leave your position without fearing that DIAC cancels your visa. Still, I would double check with DIAC.

Get as much paperwork together as you can. Get payslips, timesheets and witnesses if neccessary and take the complaint to DIAC because what you are saying is acutally an offence in Australia as it has to be provided by law.

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Guest Fabian

I hate to burst your bubble but there ARE actually visas that have been cancelled under the Act.

See http://www.immi.gov.au/about/reports/annual/2006-07/html/outcome1/output1_3_2.htm

 

Scroll down to Section 137Q and read for yourself. 2 Cases from 2006-2007.

So your immigration officer then talks a lot of bullsh** and I would be VERY careful what I believe in future from this person.

That's the annual report. I can't believe they are lying in their own report or faking it... might be a shock for some people now to see the proof that it CAN happen, although 2 cases out of thousands is not "many".

 

Interesting is that in none of the Reports from 2007 onwards there is anything mentioned about the Cancellation under 137Q. You will find cancellations due to a failed character test, refugees statistics, detention. But you won't find the RSMS thing anymore.

Maybe this was just a "game" from the Howard government ?

 

 

Still. The 2 cases are there from 2006-2007. Obviously some people don't read the annual reports...otherwise people would know that there ARE cases where it happens instead of claiming there have been no cases or no cases they were aware of.

 

Mr. Wrussel, your turn :)

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Hi Fabian,

its good to know from your agent that he is not awar of any rsms cancellation.

i am in a position where i m extermly unhappy. i am treated badly by the employer and the staffs of my orginazation.i am not given to work full time hours and other facilites and benifites are far..not provided superannuantion .or sick leave.not penalty rates on public holiday.mate i am doing 3 ppl work and still cant satisfy my boss.

i have worked for the company for 5 months before my pr..and its been one month since i hv been granted a parmanent residency..i am doing my best and put every effort still its not working..

im planning to go diac and let them know about my situation and ask them if i leave wht are the consiquence..but sacred at the same time if they take my pr away from me..

its sucks ..when u hv done everyting and it dosent works..

please suggest me wht do u think abt my case ..hv i made genuine effort or not?

thanks

 

cowboy:arghh:

Its illegal not to pay super and holidays. Pay rates etc are part of the National Employment Standards which they have to comply with or an award for your industry. Get some specialist advice as you maybe being underpaid. There was a case a few weeks ago where the employer was doing this and had to pay the staff hundreds of thousands. Your State Legal Aid organisation should be able to point you in the right direction.

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Guest cowboy

Hmmm, look like its totally mimumum about the cancellation case of rsms visa even if they leave there position and walk away to another regional areas. 2 case among thousand and more means i guess there has never been any case of cancellation of rsms who have left the position and worked for another employer in else where regional area.

The two case must b the case who have actually returned to their country and never came back to work ..

so if u are honest to the department and try ur best to work for your employer and if it dosent work i guess department of immigration will consider you if u still remain regional and serve in regional area of australia.

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Guest Fabian

Well, we don't know what happened in these cases . I think it might be something like what cowboy said . However , rsms visas have been cancelled before and its not just a myth .

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I have been to seminars over the years where the same question as to the cancellation of RSMS visas has been raised. No practitioner at any seminar (these are experienced practitioners) has ever heard of a visa granted under the RSMS being cancelled subsequently.

 

I am not disputing a stat on the DIAC website. However, the present expectation is that cancellation in the event of the sponsored employment ending within a couple of years is unlikely/remote, particularly if the visaholder continues to live and work in regional Australia - which now includes Perth, or course.

 

Best regards.


Managing Director, Go Matilda Visas - www.gomatilda.com

Registered Migration Agent Number 0102534; Registered Tax Agent (Australia)

Chartered Accountant (UK, and Australia)

T - 023 81 66 11 55 (UK) or 03 9935 2929 (Australia)

E - alan.collett@gomatilda.com

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Guest sona
I have been to seminars over the years where the same question as to the cancellation of RSMS visas has been raised. No practitioner at any seminar (these are experienced practitioners) has ever heard of a visa granted under the RSMS being cancelled subsequently.

 

I am not disputing a stat on the DIAC website. However, the present expectation is that cancellation in the event of the sponsored employment ending within a couple of years is unlikely/remote, particularly if the visaholder continues to live and work in regional Australia - which now includes Perth, or course.

 

Best regards.

 

Sorry Alan I just jumpin, I also have question related 886 as i already got my PR and moved to regional area, but could'nt get job in my skill occupation, can't I work any other occupation or even I don't get a job. are the immi going take any action against. In migration survey they asked me Qs. about my employment and why I have got the job?

Thanks any other opinion too.

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I believe there are no cancellation provisions attaching to a subclass 886 visa - but am happy to hear views to the contrary.

 

Best regards.


Managing Director, Go Matilda Visas - www.gomatilda.com

Registered Migration Agent Number 0102534; Registered Tax Agent (Australia)

Chartered Accountant (UK, and Australia)

T - 023 81 66 11 55 (UK) or 03 9935 2929 (Australia)

E - alan.collett@gomatilda.com

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Guest sona
I believe there are no cancellation provisions attaching to a subclass 886 visa - but am happy to hear views to the contrary.

 

 

Best regards.

Thanks Alan for replying back..........

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Guest cowboy

Hi, Allen thanks for your response ..i have heard about genuine effort ..but i dont know what immigration law say about genuine effort..how about the medical condition of a employee in 857 visa is getting worse like mental heaalth conditon like depression..due to number ot reason..isolated place,nightmare work place and othe reasons..is tht considered as genuine effort..as due to this the perfomance in work place is getting worse and causeing lot of conflit in work palce..

thanks

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Guest cowboy

i got a good new for everyone who is stuck with 2 yrs obligation in rsms visa...

 

 

ENS and RSMS visa holders are Australian permanent residents and have

the same employment and workplace rights as any other Australian

permanent resident or citizen. If their relationship with the employer

deteriorates, they can seek redress through the Australian industrial relations

 

 

system or find alternate employment.

 

its clearly wirtten on

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/discussion-papers/skilled-visas.htm

 

so i guess that explains clearly and encourge more ppl to move to regional area whthout a fear of visa cancellation if the employment dosent work for 2 years even of u have made ever effort to work for your employer..

 

cheers:biggrin:

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