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Guest The Ropey HOFF

Sharon Shoesmith wins appeal against sacking in baby P case.

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Guest The Ropey HOFF

Thats the headline breaking news, Sharon Shoesmith has won her appeal over her sacking by Ed Balls over her being in overall charge when baby P was tortured and murdered and he was let down time and time again and it begs the question, should anyone ever be made responsible for being incompetent in a childs death and be sacked for their incompetence. Fair enough their workload was immense, but the catalogue of basic errors in my mind, means they should be sacked. She is now due a massive compensation pay out which i find disgusting.

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Guest Guest 47403

I'd like to think that every single social worker that visited the house of that poor child is now out of a job but I doubt it very much, cases like this leave a bad taste regarding the social services in this country.

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Guest The Ropey HOFF

I haven't fully read it, but my first take on it is that she won her appeal because Ed Balls sacked her and the court has ruled it was a Political' sacking .............. she should have sacked and so should everyone of the others involved.

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Guest guest30085

I greatly admire anyone who chooses such a difficult profession. I wouldnt be able to do it as I have a feeling I would be sacked instantly for punching someone if I saw their child in the state/condition some of poor little things are in.

 

If reporting on it is to be believed (Im not saying it shouldnt) then the work loads are almost at an unmanageable level and the resources are stretched.

 

BUT, she was in charge at the time and this isnt the only case is it to affect this authority, if I remember rightly? How can so many visits be carried out and yet no action was taken? Did nobody notice?

 

If they have found legal problems in the case which makes her sacking 'incorrect', then I suppose she deserves a nice payout so she can go and live a happy and wealthy life somewhere and of course will be able to apply for other jobs in this sector as after all her sacking was 'wrong' and she can leave with a 'clean' record.

 

Edited to say: I will just add that just occasionally the British Press almost have something to their credit. Hopefully with all the reporting, her name will be so well known that noone will want to employ, even though of course shes innocent, for the record.

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Guest The Ropey HOFF

She will get such a huge payout she won't need to ever work again ............. its sickening.

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Guest guest30085

She is said to be 'thrilled' at the ruling that she has been unlawfully sacked :mad:

 

If the procedure leading to her sacking was not carried out correctly, i.e. they did not let her see the evidence and she was not able to respond before the decision was made. . . .

 

Why dont they re-open the investigation, let her respond, and then sack her again!

 

Instead of bowing down and getting the Great British Taxpayers Cheque Book out again

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I did not believe for one moment she would not win in the end and be paid mega bucks ... it seems to me no one is ever really punished for anything now ... no one thinks they are ever wrong ... they have no shame ... not just the " baby P " case ...

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Guest Ph0en1x

Outside court, she said: "I would love to go back to work (in Haringey) but that's not possible but I hope to carry on with my career with children in some capacity."

 

I wouldn't trust her working on a ice cream van

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If anyone looked into the matter, this woman spent her life working in education with children, then in social services trying to protect children.

Ropey - would you be sacked if an inmate killed another inmate when you were on holiday?

Is the governor sacked when an inmate leaves but then commits further offences?

These are similar circumstances to those that Shoesmith was in.

 

Tracey Connolly and her lover and lodger were the ones that killed the child. They were charged and sentenced for it.

Knee jerk political decisions like this make a mockery of justice and due process, and show why governments should stay out of these issues. It was nothing but a desperate vote winning ploy by Labour.

 

I go into houses every day, but i don't know what happens at night, nor did any of the social workers in this case.

I noticed that no police officers, paediatricians, solicitors, GP's etc were summarily sacked for their involvement in the case.

Sharon Shoesmith never met Peter Connolly or his mother.

All of the above did.


"An inspirational leader...exceptionally enthusiastic, committed and motivated" OFSTED 2014.

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Guest The Ropey HOFF
If anyone looked into the matter, this woman spent her life working in education with children, then in social services trying to protect children.

Ropey - would you be sacked if an inmate killed another inmate when you were on holiday?

Is the governor sacked when an inmate leaves but then commits further offences?

These are similar circumstances to those that Shoesmith was in.

 

Tracey Connolly and her lover and lodger were the ones that killed the child. They were charged and sentenced for it.

Knee jerk political decisions like this make a mockery of justice and due process, and show why governments should stay out of these issues. It was nothing but a desperate vote winning ploy by Labour.

 

I go into houses every day, but i don't know what happens at night, nor did any of the social workers in this case.

I noticed that no police officers, paediatricians, solicitors, GP's etc were summarily sacked for their involvement in the case.

Sharon Shoesmith never met Peter Connolly or his mother.

All of the above did.

 

If you had been involved you would have followed the correct procedures, i am certain of that, i can't recall the full specific facts now from over 3 years ago, but without doubt there was a catalogue of errors and neglect from numerous people, leading right up to this incompetent woman who knew things weren't being done properly and they all deserved to be sacked and the inquiry was damning in their judgement of almost all who were involved after a lengthy investigation. Yes they didn't kill him, but they might have saved him had they done their jobs correctly and they have to live with it for the rest of their lives. The government are looking at appealing this disgusting judgement, apparently not based on facts of what wasn't done correctly, but based how she was sacked and by whom.

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If you had been involved you would have followed the correct procedures, i am certain of that, i can't recall the full specific facts now from over 3 years ago, but without doubt there was a catalogue of errors and neglect from numerous people, leading right up to this incompetent woman who knew things weren't being done properly and they all deserved to be sacked and the inquiry was damning in their judgement of almost all who were involved after a lengthy investigation. Yes they didn't kill him, but they might have saved him had they done their jobs correctly and they have to live with it for the rest of their lives. The government are looking at appealing this disgusting judgement, apparently not based on facts of what wasn't done correctly, but based how she was sacked and by whom.

 

 

No, blame was not apportioned to any social workers.

The boys mum had a sadistic boyfriend, who she valued above the life of her son.

Social Workers are not police - they can't march in and check under beds for hidden sadists.

You'll know yourself how much paperwork, computer form filling, management targets etc impact on the work people do.

Police have it, Social Workers have it - and I'm sure many more professions do.

It is these that stop S/W's doing a proper job - there is simply no time to spend with the people you are trying to work with and help.

 

Haringey had passed with flying colours an Ofsted inspection around the time of this death - so officially it was doing most things right.

 

Regardless of blame etc, child murders are actually falling in this country, thanks to the work done by social workers and related professions

 

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/statistics/child_homicide_statistics_wda48747.html

 

 

Here's a look at some issues relating to this case and others...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/baby-p/4978770/Baby-P-inquiry-Child-protection-issues-not-given-priority-says-Lord-Laming.html


"An inspirational leader...exceptionally enthusiastic, committed and motivated" OFSTED 2014.

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Guest The Ropey HOFF

One other thing paul, there was no one and i mean no one anywhere that thought this young lad hadn't been woefully let down, its not an attack on all social workers who do an incredible job, but on this occasion it went badly and sadly wrong.

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Guest The Ropey HOFF
No, blame was not apportioned to any social workers.

The boys mum had a sadistic boyfriend, who she valued above the life of her son.

Social Workers are not police - they can't march in and check under beds for hidden sadists.

You'll know yourself how much paperwork, computer form filling, management targets etc impact on the work people do.

Police have it, Social Workers have it - and I'm sure many more professions do.

It is these that stop S/W's doing a proper job - there is simply no time to spend with the people you are trying to work with and help.

 

Haringey had passed with flying colours an Ofsted inspection around the time of this death - so officially it was doing most things right.

 

Regardless of blame etc, child murders are actually falling in this country, thanks to the work done by social workers and related professions

 

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/statistics/child_homicide_statistics_wda48747.html

 

 

Here's a look at some issues relating to this case and others...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/baby-p/4978770/Baby-P-inquiry-Child-protection-issues-not-given-priority-says-Lord-Laming.html

 

I have read the link and it is disgusting how money is put before kiddies safety ............ i know i keep banging on about the wasted tens of billions by the last useless Labour government and this useless Tory government, but here we have a situation AGAIN where these wasted billions could be much better spent, i also blame the government over baby P and Victoria Climbe and just why do we, the public put up with it and .............. expect more cases because the austerity cuts are damaging services everywhere.

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Guest guest37336
I have read the link and it is disgusting how money is put before kiddies safety ............ i know i keep banging on about the wasted tens of billions by the last useless Labour government and this useless Tory government, but here we have a situation AGAIN where these wasted billions could be much better spent, i also blame the government over baby P and Victoria Climbe and just why do we, the public put up with it and .............. expect more cases because the austerity cuts are damaging services everywhere.

 

Jim if this comes over as a rant, then I apologise, BUT.

 

I have had several dealings with social services over the years and more recently the child protection team, both from Social Services and the Police, nothing in it at all, but nonetheless a truly horrific experience and one that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy.

 

Whilst they have a job to do, (sometimes brilliantly, and sometimes woefully) I think to a degree they are in a no win situation, they HAVE to investigate if they 'think' something may be a miss, sometimes this is valid and at others sometimes not, and many a time an innocent is caught up in the crossfire.

 

I do not envy their job, I really don't, but I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments about the resources made available to them, and the money wasting that is going on day after day. The money they receive has to be targeted in such a way that the innocent and the vulnerable are protected at ALL times, no matter the upset it may cause.

 

I'm not sure if there is a solution to this, I doubt it very much BUT.

 

Here we go Jim, (start of rant) if we as a nation truly cared about what is happening to those that are the most vulnerable then I 'think' the change may come about. I am NOT having a pop at anyone here mate, but until we get our priorities right in this country nothing will change at all.

 

I could go on and on about taxing the banks, nuclear weapons, MP's expenses, and the money here could help those more disadvantaged (particularly kiddies) but what good would it do because as I said yesterday todays news is tomorrows fish and chip wrapping.

 

Not until this sort of thing is rammed down our throats on a daily basis will the message EVER get through I'm afraid. We are spoon fed 'news', 'gossip' 'tittle tattle' on an ever increasing basis and until such matters as a Social Consciousness' once again become part of our psyche ad everyday thought process nothing will change mate, nothing at all.

 

You would expect me to be very bitter about social services, (the treatment I received was OK, but the back up was awful) but I am more way peed off with the attitude of way too many people who just don't care is all.

 

The social worker spent an hour in my house just over six weeks ago, and bless her, though she apolidigised profusely for what had gone on she was gob smacked when I went into a tirade about society and what it has become, as a trained social worker (though I know she couldn't say a lot) could not quiet grasp what I was trying to say, my final comment to her was, 'As far as I am concerned I want my front door closed and let me be, because I am nearly giving up the will to try and change peoples mindsets'. Her comment to me was, 'Tony, you can't live your life like that', I just shrugged my shoulders and we said our goodbyes.

 

As I said Jim, the vulnerable and most 'damaged' are often ignored mate, and it is NOT good enough to just shrug ones shoulders and say, 'That's the just the way it is'.:mad:.

 

Sorry Jim, not having a go at all, but I do and can become rather worked up with things like this.

 

Cheers Tony.:wink:

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Guest Andy

To be honest you can talk about politicians, social workers whoever you like but at the end of the day the real blame for this quite horrific crime lies at the feet of the two monsters who tortured and murdered little baby p over a number of years, they are disgusting vermin and should imo be hung by the neck until they are dead and then chucked in the sewer where they belong. Any crime involving the physical or sexual abuse of a child brings me to tears on a regular basis.

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Guest guest30085
To be honest you can talk about politicians, social workers whoever you like but at the end of the day the real blame for this quite horrific crime lies at the feet of the two monsters who tortured and murdered little baby p over a number of years, they are disgusting vermin and should imo be hung by the neck until they are dead and then chucked in the sewer where they belong. Any crime involving the physical or sexual abuse of a child brings me to tears on a regular basis.

 

I agree whole-heartedly, if ever there was a case for forced sterilisation it is this, and I would be amazed and disgusted at any do-gooders saying we were taking away their civil liberties.

 

But, the whole point of having a system in place is surely to be able to spot these things early enough to try to prevent long term emotional and physical damage, or sadly even death, to the more vulnerable of society.

 

I can see how the system is so swamped in procedures and paperwork that it stops Social Workers etc being able to carry out their jobs as they should. But, there HAS to be some accountability somewhere, and if a department has been found to have serious issues, then where should the buck stop? Except in this case it doesnt seem to stop with anyone?

 

How can a child be visited 60 times and been removed from its mother's care on at least two separate occasions, and been seen by a Doctor who failed to notice the childs broken back and ribs, still be returned to the parent's care under a term of '"threshold for initiating Care Proceedings...was not met"

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Guest Andy
I agree whole-heartedly, if ever there was a case for forced sterilisation it is this, and I would be amazed and disgusted at any do-gooders saying we were taking away their civil liberties.

 

But, the whole point of having a system in place is surely to be able to spot these things early enough to try to prevent long term emotional and physical damage, or sadly even death, to the more vulnerable of society.

 

I can see how the system is so swamped in procedures and paperwork that it stops Social Workers etc being able to carry out their jobs as they should. But, there HAS to be some accountability somewhere, and if a department has been found to have serious issues, then where should the buck stop? Except in this case it doesnt seem to stop with anyone?

 

How can a child be visited 60 times and been removed from its mother's care on at least two separate occasions, and been seen by a Doctor who failed to notice the childs broken back and ribs, still be returned to the parent's care under a term of '"threshold for initiating Care Proceedings...was not met"

I agree with you that various people seem not to have done there jobs properly, but i would suspect that if the social workers had taken little baby p away then another child would have suffered later on at the hands of the vermin.

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Guest guest30085
I agree with you that various people seem not to have done there jobs properly, but i would suspect that if the social workers had taken little baby p away then another child would have suffered later on at the hands of the vermin.

 

When I say remove the child, I forgot to say it should have been followed by exterminating those three monsters after so they were never able to get near another child

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I agree whole-heartedly, if ever there was a case for forced sterilisation it is this, and I would be amazed and disgusted at any do-gooders saying we were taking away their civil liberties.

 

But, the whole point of having a system in place is surely to be able to spot these things early enough to try to prevent long term emotional and physical damage, or sadly even death, to the more vulnerable of society.

 

I can see how the system is so swamped in procedures and paperwork that it stops Social Workers etc being able to carry out their jobs as they should. But, there HAS to be some accountability somewhere, and if a department has been found to have serious issues, then where should the buck stop? Except in this case it doesnt seem to stop with anyone?

 

How can a child be visited 60 times and been removed from its mother's care on at least two separate occasions, and been seen by a Doctor who failed to notice the childs broken back and ribs, still be returned to the parent's care under a term of '"threshold for initiating Care Proceedings...was not met"

 

Such is the politics, and funding, of child protection.

After this case every council in the land lowered their thresholds as the thought of this happening in their area terrified them. Kids being taken into care increased

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rise-in-children-in-care-since-baby-p-2094312.html

 

 

Two years later it's a distant memory, there are budget cuts, and thresholds have been quietly raised again so there is more likelihood of another horror story like this.


"An inspirational leader...exceptionally enthusiastic, committed and motivated" OFSTED 2014.

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Guest The Ropey HOFF

There was an inquiry and they found a catalogue of errors, too many to just say ........... well they had too much to do and no ones to blame, as for the killers, as you know i am from the flog em and hang em brigade, so to me they have got off lightly, but the report i think stated that if those who had dealings with baby Peter had done their job properly he still might be alive today.

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Absolutely agree with this...... those of you that have slated social workers .... you make me sick...again having an opinion on something you know nothing about. It's the parents that abuse the children not the social workers. If you feel you could so such a good job then let's see you try

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Better look at the number of child deaths in Australia, more incompetent social workers there than the UK. Oz has backward thinking, backward practice and backward attitudes.

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Why are stuff like this posted on this forum?

 

Pointing a finger at someone without knowing exactly what happened without certainty.

 

This is wrong in my view

 

This will upset a lot of members of this forum who work in this role


...IS My Life a Dream? - If It Is I Don't Want to Wake Up...

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Guest Andy
Better look at the number of child deaths in Australia, more incompetent social workers there than the UK. Oz has backward thinking, backward practice and backward attitudes.

Fair enough but this thread has got absolutly nothing to do with Australia what so ever, thats why its in chewing the fat, trying to turn it into yet another oz v uk war zone is not needed.

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I know this thread was posted as a general point as it's in the news in the UK at the moment, it certainly wasn't intended to have a pop at anyone or any profession.

 

The death or killing of a child is a terrible event but thankfully it's quite rare due to the work that thousands of social workers do - day in day out. They do this thankless task with the help of Health Visitors, police, doctors and nurses, teachers and nursery staff, concerned members of the public etc.

 

However, when a child dies and social services are involved with the family, it seems to be the case that they are scapegoated - not the killers, not the police, not the GP, not the other people who had just as much of a chance to intervene.

This fudges the issue - making the public believe that because someone got sacked that this problem could never possibly happen again. But as the NSPCC figures that I posted earlier show, a child is killed every 10 days in the UK, and most of these are by their parents or loved ones.

 

But incidents like the Peter Connolly killing - and the subsequent scapegoating of Sharon Shoesmith - hoodwink people into thinking that protecting children is the job of someone else.

If everyone kept an eye out for their neighbours children, their nieces and nephews, their grandchildren, then this number would become lower still, and people might see that we all have a part to play.


"An inspirational leader...exceptionally enthusiastic, committed and motivated" OFSTED 2014.

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