Nazi Hunters

[Guest guest37336]

As some will know recently a 'War Criminal' has been caught and is at some point due to face justice. I dare some know how far some groups will go to in order to catch Nazi's from many, many years ago, and I admire their determination to do such a thing, BUT.

 

Bearing in mind the second world war was over sixty years ago should these old men and woman still be hunted down and made to atone for their acts at the time.

 

The old arguments of that they were just 'Following Orders' or 'A Minor Player' are often put forward, some truth maybe. But all in all do you think that the Nazi's of old should be bought to justice and made to face the reality of what they did.

 

Just to make my point very clear, I am one who believes that any war criminal should be bought to justice, not just the Nazi's, but all war criminals or despots of the world.

 

Vengeance can often destroy those seeking it, but I think they would agree that no matter the sacrifices they have to make in order to find these people then it is worth it.

 

Cheers Tony.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

It's time to draw a line under it, the latest guy is 91 years old and its too late in my opinion.

 

I have every sympathy in the world with the victims, but there comes a time when hunting down 90 year old men in the vain hope of justice, to me seems not right some how.

[Guest Guest16631]

.....................everyone should be responsible for what they have done....................medals and recognition for the good .........................and punishment and recognition for the bad.................there was no mercy for the old and infirm by the nazi's..........................you get back what you give out......................sometimes its slow in comming.....................

[Si T]

IMO they should be at least made to stand trial.

 

The problem with us humans is that we tend to forget the impact of these things and keep repeating them.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Tink ............. do you feel comfortable in the evidence that is found against these 90 plus year olds after nearly 70 years has passed? I know i don't, i agree the Nazis should pay for the horrors of what they did, but ............... after 70 years to me its too late.

[Guest guest37336]

IMO they should be at least made to stand trial.

 

The problem with us humans is that we tend to forget the impact of these things and keep repeating them.

 

Hi Si T.

 

Couldn't agree more, human nature is one where the more time passes the less we realise what impact some events had on others.

 

It is at the end of the day ALL our responsibility to highlight such things and not just the things that affect our everyday and personal lives. I guess I am asking for a perfect world which will never happen, but it is such a shame at times that atrocities get repeated day after day and unless impacting on us on in a very personal way we tend not to take too much notice.

 

Cheers Tony.

[thewebweazel]

It's time to draw a line under it, the latest guy is 91 years old and its too late in my opinion.

 

I have every sympathy in the world with the victims, but there comes a time when hunting down 90 year old men in the vain hope of justice, to me seems not right some how.

 

:biglaugh:I actually agree with you! He has already spent 8 years in an Israeli jail, where he was under a death sentence! Then they found out that it might have been someone else.

 

The decision to put him on trial is correct as it is important the to show the wrongs of the past, but it is really to late to punish him. At this stage if he is not reformed he will never be reformed!

[janine the party queen]

According to the news the war crimes people are actively investigating 800 war ciminals.

IMO everyone of them needs to be brought to trial irrispective of age.

They showed no mercy for their victims so why should we show mercy because they are old.

While we were living in Germany I had the honour of working on a Belsen Concentration Camp Reunion.

Those people were still suffering lots of us then soldiers were reduced to tears listening to their stories of survival.

[Si T]

Hi Si T.

 

Couldn't agree more, human nature is one where the more time passes the less we realise what impact some events had on others.

 

It is at the end of the day ALL our responsibility to highlight such things and not just the things that affect our everyday and personal lives. I guess I am asking for a perfect world which will never happen, but it is such a shame at times that atrocities get repeated day after day and unless impacting on us on in a very personal way we tend not to take too much notice.

 

Cheers Tony.

 

Nothing wrong with aiming for perfect. Get close and it may be good enough.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Just to add .............. i have sat in on a lot of court cases and time lapse is a big issue in uk courts, due to most witnesses having passed away and there has been cases not progressed with by the CPS solely because of time and all i am saying is that after nearly 70 years i think its time to say enough ............

 

To me the Nazis should have been hunted down and executed years ago, but after 70 years i can't believe any conviction would be safe.

[Guest siamsusie]

Ask the question of any victim!

 

My dutch grand parents would agree they should all be brought to trial, no matter the age.

 

 

 

 

 

Genocide in Cambodia, yes bring them to court, no matter what their age, may their zimmerframes break their bones!

 

Susie x

[thewebweazel]

It all stinks of revenge and hypocrisy to me. Take the Israelis for instance they prosecute the Nazi war criminals on one hand for what they did in the concentration camps and the on the other keep the Palestinians in Gaza in a virtual concentration camp! What about Obama? he orders an assassination and nobody in the western world is willing to criticize him. Are these not war crimes as well? It really seems to be victors justice.

[Guest Guest16631]

...whatever the crime i believe it should be reflected in the punishment......................the old and sick......children and babies...................the wrong colour skin.............they were punished indescriminantly...................again you get back what you give out .........regardless.................

[Guest guest37336]

Unfortunately this is where the lines and boundaries become a little blurred.

 

I tend to think of it this way. I know full well that god forbid if one of my family was tortured/killed etc I would want the person responsible bought to justice, NO matter the time frame, cost and sacrifices I had to make.

 

Time heals (to a certain extent) but the healing process is formed of many different emotions, vengeance, forgiveness, trying to forget, but vengeance is the one emotion that those that don't receive justice are left to deal with, and that should never be allowed to happen.

 

A short trip to Auschwitz would I imagine bring us all up, only the hardest of souls could not be moved by the hair, shoes, bags etc that are on show there, and once upon a time they were worn by a people who just happened to be 'Jewish' (amongst many other ethnic groups) and for this they were persecuted and murdered to fulfill one mans vision of a perfect world,:mad:.

 

Cheers Tony.

[Guest Guest16631]

..........my lines are clear and sharp....................if any crime misdeed or atrocity is ignored ................the perpetrators go unpunished.....................so the murdered abused and hurt............are their lives less inportant?.................no if you give out badness.............it has to come back..................we are all intitled as a human being to be treated the same ...........

[janine the party queen]

Sorry STL but time DOES not heal some wounds.

A sound,smell,music,certain words can and do bring past experiences to the front as if they only happened yesterday.I should know.

[Guest guest37336]

Sorry STL but time DOES not heal some wounds.

A sound,smell,music,certain words can and do bring past experiences to the front as if they only happened yesterday.I should know.

 

Hi Janine.

 

I know what you mean, I hope I didn't offend, but I did say 'To A Certain Extent', maybe I should have said the 'rawness' of grief subsides a miniscule amount. :wubclub:

 

As you say certain smells etc can bring the memories flying back, didn't mean to belittle anyones grief my friend.

 

Cheers Tony.:wubclub:

[janine the party queen]

Not offended in any way at all.

I just wonder at human nature.How can we celebrate Anzac Day/ Rememberence Sunday without thinking of the victims of these celebrated wars ?

The passage of time will not diminish in the minds of those who have suffered through war.

Although some are saying .....yes but it was 70 yrs...........for some it was only yesterday.

Some are saying the evidence is not reliable after all this time but as some will know SS Members all have a tatoo under their arm.Many records of the Nazi's survived.Photos are still surfacing even today.Hitler loved to have things caught on film,lots of these have survived.

Security Services at the time kept records of Nazi's,those who were exacuted and those who were given new identities.

Concentration camp survivors gave accounts of the soldiers that worked in the camps,describing them in detail.

So while it has been 70 yrs the evidence is still there.

[mickyb]

It all stinks of revenge and hypocrisy to me. Take the Israelis for instance they prosecute the Nazi war criminals on one hand for what they did in the concentration camps and the on the other keep the Palestinians in Gaza in a virtual concentration camp! What about Obama? he orders an assassination and nobody in the western world is willing to criticize him. Are these not war crimes as well? It really seems to be victors justice.

 

There's a massive difference between the systematic murdering of 6 million Jews and the Palestinian / Israeli problem . I don't recall in my history lessons of Jews blowing themselves up in pizza hut in pre war Germany or firing rockets indiscriminately .and even illegal settlements doesn't quite compare . If Obama ordered the death of bin laden , who was responsible for thousands of innocent Americans deaths, then more credit to him . I don't think anybody wants to reform war criminals , revenge and justice , yes . These people should be made to pay , as an example to any other would be mass murdering war criminals . I've visited cambodia, nearly every one I spoke to lost members of their families , some lost all. I didn't stand in front of the tower of skulls and think ' somebody should be reformed for this ' . There should be no time limit on seeking justice .

[thewebweazel]

Not offended in any way at all.

I just wonder at human nature.How can we celebrate Anzac Day/ Rememberence Sunday without thinking of the victims of these celebrated wars ?

The passage of time will not diminish in the minds of those who have suffered through war.

Although some are saying .....yes but it was 70 yrs...........for some it was only yesterday.

Some are saying the evidence is not reliable after all this time but as some will know SS Members all have a tatoo under their arm.Many records of the Nazi's survived.Photos are still surfacing even today.Hitler loved to have things caught on film,lots of these have survived.

Security Services at the time kept records of Nazi's,those who were exacuted and those who were given new identities.

Concentration camp survivors gave accounts of the soldiers that worked in the camps,describing them in detail.

So while it has been 70 yrs the evidence is still there.

 

That may be true, yes put them on trial, but the trial should be an instrument of education and not one of vengeance. I'm pretty sure that the prison guards regret every day since what they have done! People act very differently in war, its a bit like a pack mentality and it becomes a group conscience.

 

Even if a pack mentality was not present, just think what would have happened to the prison guards if they disobeyed orders? what would have happened to them and their families. One of the reasons that the gas chambers came it to being was to combat the emotional effect that the executions were having on the prison guards. This is definitely not a black and white situation.

[moirclan]

it dosnt matter about their age they should be put before a juryand if there last days are full of stress and worry and they are scared maybe that would be of some small comfort to the victims , it maybe a long time ago but it still touches lives .

my uncle was polish he and his family were thrown in the camps he was rescued as he was very young , blonde and blue eyes, , he was thought to be the only one to survive in his family , he eventually made his way over to australia after the war as every thing was a mess and people were left all over europe away from their homes ,

he was a teenager , found his step mother and sister over here [ very lucky] every one else died , later married my aunt and had two girls [ my cousins ] they are 43 and 44 so not that old yet they lost their grandfather aunts and uncles to the nazis , so indirectly ,, so although a long time ago it still has has an effect today .

[janine the party queen]

I have to agree with what you are saying..........it is not all black and white and yes I have read instances of families being threatened but...........a crime is a crime no matter when or how it happened.

There is no getting away from the fact they murdered,Jews,Gypsies,Homosexuals,disabled and anyone who spoke out against them.Many of the guards/murderers knew they had done wrong and dressed themselves as peasants and even prisoners to try and escape.Many even went on to have happy lives by lying to family and friends.They should be named and shamed they should not go to their graves thinking.........I got away with murder.

[mickyb]

That may be true, yes put them on trial, but the trial should be an instrument of education and not one of vengeance. I'm pretty sure that the prison guards regret every day since what they have done! People act very differently in war, its a bit like a pack mentality and it becomes a group conscience.

 

Even if a pack mentality was not present, just think what would have happened to the prison guards if they disobeyed orders? what would have happened to them and their families. One of the reasons that the gas chambers came it to being was to combat the emotional effect that the executions were having on the prison guards. This is definitely not a black and white situation.

I watched the history channel in the uk and a programme on the camps showed the gas chambers were developed to kill as many as cheaply and quicklywith the least amount of man power and ammunition as possible . I agree that ' low ranking guards ' should be nowhere near as accountable as those further up the ladder of command but we're talking mass murder of civilians not executing a few prisoners of war .

[janine the party queen]

This 91 yr old war criminal was found guilty of playing a part in 28,000 murders !!!!!!!

If this 91 yr old had been found guilty of child molestation,would we even being having this conversation ?????? No we would all be saying...hang him.....castrate him.....leave him to rot in jail.

Some peoples memories are short.Many of these " poor old men " were guilty of rape,torture and murder.Why should we let them off because................they are old !!!?????

[Guest Guest16631]

.....all crime must eventually be paid for ......................a lesson needs to have been learnt................or how can we say we have abided by the basic rule of life......................

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

—Article 1 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.............these people were denied that right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,