IrishDigger Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 To those who wonder if it's worthwhile taking out Australian Citizenship, http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/9208325/british-man-to-be-deported-40-years-on/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siamsusie Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 To those who wonder if it's worthwhile taking out Australian Citizenship, http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/9208325/british-man-to-be-deported-40-years-on/ :laugh:Well I intend to apply for Citizenship as soon as I qualify but hopefully for the right reasons:biggrin:!. I actually agree with this policy, he is once again being detained at the tax payers expense, he also has a pretty colourful history, although it is questionable as to whether there are extenuating circumstances or not in this case. His mental state is of course a huge consideration. " Court records point to his violent behaviour and a 12-year jail sentence for attempted murder in the 1980s." I note that " Immigration authorities only became aware of Mr Tucker when he applied for a visa to re-enter Australia after a holiday to Bali"... so I assume he might have applied for a RRV on the basis he had PR (??) The US have been practicing the same procedure with its Cambodian non citizens who have commited offenses for many years and I am in full agreement with it. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I think this is the same in most countries. If you are not a citizen and have been guilty of very serious crimes you will serve your sentence and then be deported. Generally this is appropriate, but there have been some very sad cases where the person deported has been mentally ill and has committed suicide in the country he was deported to. Eg this case... http://www.phonebill.com.au/phone-bill-articles/2009/12/7/after-30-years-in-australia-deported-to-britain-to-die/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acantril Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 What i don't understand is, why would anyone NOT apply for citizenship the second you can ? especially if you can keep dual citizenship.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 What i don't understand is, why would anyone NOT apply for citizenship the second you can ? especially if you can keep dual citizenship.... being legally forced to have to vote for the likes of Gillard or Abbott? :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siamsusie Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 being legally forced to have to vote for the likes of Gillard or Abbott? :biggrin: You are only legally obliged to turn up at the voting booth/wherever, you are not forced to vote for anyone, so if its Willy Wonker.... thats fine:biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acantril Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 You are only legally obliged to turn up at the voting booth/wherever, you are not forced to vote for anyone, so if its Willy Wonker.... thats fine:biggrin: Which is how it should be IMO. If you get the benefits of a country you should take part in it's democratic processes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siamsusie Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Which is how it should be IMO. If you get the benefits of a country you should take part in it's democratic processes. I couldnt agree more! If more people could tear themselves away from the soaps and actually vote, there might be a possibility of getting what you wished for.:biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I couldnt agree more! If more people could tear themselves away from the soaps and actually vote, there might be a possibility of getting what you wished for.:biggrin: you mean like now, where the majority voted directly for Liberal, but Labor got in power, yet the country is actually being run by the Greens :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siamsusie Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 you mean like now, where the majority voted directly for Liberal, but Labor got in power, yet the country is actually being run by the Greens :biggrin: Dont we have a coilition of independents , l green and the rest are labour ? forgive me if I am wrong though.. :biggrin: so what happened in the UK? I actually dont quite "get" why people immigrants with citizenship are opposed to voting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Majority did not vote for liberal unfortunately or they might be in power. Here are the results, most people voted labor. http://results.aec.gov.au/15508/Website/HouseStateFirstPrefsByParty-15508-NAT.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yuills Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 and it is these stories that tell me they have not allowed the Bulger killers into Australia. Sorry sounds harsh but I tend to agree with what is happening.....he has conviction for attempted murder.....and they are talking about human rights!! This is only my opinion and I respect those that do not agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Dont we have a coilition of independents , l green and the rest are labour ? forgive me if I am wrong though.. ....each of which dangles their ongoing loyalty like a carrot in front of the PM. Case in point Carbon Tax. :biggrin: so what happened in the UK? ! Oh and I'm not complementing the UK's political set up by any means. Its a shambles too. At least there though a vote means a definitive vote. Here a vote for one, is potentially a vote for another should your main choice not get through. I've heard people say things like "I'm not voting labor, its time for Rudd (sic) to go. I'll vote greens". and surely enough, without voting below the line, their vote is added to the Labor pile. tis a silly ambiguous system. back to citizenship.... If/when I take citizenship it will honestly be from a practical point of view rather than an overwhelming love and devotion to the country. My wife it Australian, our kids could either be Australian or British, we may move, we may stay. Dual citizenship just makes that easier and provides flexibility and options. If I do take citizenship and have to vote either in situ or in absentia, I will be sure to "speednob" the ballot paper though. http://www.playgroundlaw.com/cgi-bin/browse.pl?sid=677 ...and now back to politics again I actually dont quite "get" why people immigrants with citizenship are opposed to voting I'm not opposed, and I don't feel its a waste of time in principal. Its a vote. It's your say. However I feel that the makeup of the political parties and the political system is flawed, misleading and unfair. To be honest I don't feel it truly represents a democratic society and none of the available options really scream out as halfway decent. There's so much political lobbying from irritating and disproportionally represented lobby groups (e.g. ACL) that its hard to tell who's agenda is getting pushed and why, irrespective of who you are voting for. What do people cast votes for? What do they base it on?: election promises? We all know how cast iron they turn out to be. This is not unique to Australia though. Its politics, globally. Please don't feel that I am having a go at a national level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 You are entitled to allocate your preferences any way you see fit. If you choose to follow the party line and allocate your preferences as per their suggestion thats up to you. Nothing stops you putting Greens first and Labor last if you want to. I think most people understand this. The answer is to allocate your preferences in the order you wish, not blindly follow the how to vote card handed out by the pollies on election day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 You are entitled to allocate your preferences any way you see fit.If you choose to follow the party line and allocate your preferences as per their suggestion thats up to you. Nothing stops you putting Greens first and Labor last if you want to. I think most people understand this. The answer is to allocate your preferences in the order you wish, not blindly follow the how to vote card handed out by the pollies on election day. Yes you are so right here. On election day all those votes which are not just 'party line' are separated out for closer scrutiny and separate counting. Sadly, they are in the minority, most people don't bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcginlm72 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 You are only legally obliged to turn up at the voting booth/wherever, you are not forced to vote for anyone, so if its Willy Wonker.... thats fine:biggrin: Being legally obliged to turn up at the voting booth is not democracy the whole point of democracy is freedom of choice and part of that should be the option of choosing if you want to vote at all and saying that you still have that choice while forcing you to turn up at the booths or your fined is hypercritical. This is just one more way of the government to make a bit of money of you and me. I am glad that I cannot vote as part of my visa restrictions and am in two minds why on earth I would want citizenship if it means I have to be part of this ridiculous money making scheme by the government. I so think that voting is important and everyone should vote but I don't think forcing people to turn up or else is right no matter how much you dress it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 There are laws about everything in life. Voting once every 3 years or so is not particularly onerous. Voting is a priviledge which many countries don't have. I agree that it sounds like you should not become a citizen if you are not going to be supportive of Australian way of doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sir Les Patterson Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I have to be part of this ridiculous money making scheme by the government. Hmmm, this one has me stumped. mcginlm72, this may come as a surprise to you but this is our sandbox and here we(Australians) make the rules. If you don't like these rules please feel free to leave or if you haven't arrived yet please feel free to stay away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathalie Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I think the advantages of being a citizen outweighs the "disadvantage" of spending an hour of my time to vote every few years...it actually seems quite a bargain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siamsusie Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 When my time comes I will take out citizenship and very proudly as well. With that comes part and parcel of voting, of which I will be delighted to do. Susiex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcginlm72 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hmmm, this one has me stumped. mcginlm72, this may come as a surprise to you but this is our sandbox and here we(Australians) make the rules. If you don't like these rules please feel free to leave or if you haven't arrived yet please feel free to stay away. Spoken like a member of a dictatorship rather than a democracy. Do as we say or leave! thats nice!! Wanting people to vote and demanding people vote is two different things I don't think expecting people to vote once every 3 or 4 years is too much to ask but it should be every persons right to decide what they do with that vote yes some countries aren't even given that privledge but this is not the issue as we are not in any of those countries so that argument is useless. If given the right to vote I expect to be entitled to do with it as I wish as it is MY vote and being told if I don't go to the voting booths I will get fined is not in my eyes democracy at work! "Democracy is a form of government in which all citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives, quality and freedom has all been identified as important characteristics of democracy since ancient times." The key word there being FREEDOM, freedom to decide to vote or not vote to go to the voting booth or not to is something that should be allowed to all. I have just as much right to be a citizen here as the next immigrant and for people to say otherwise is just showing there ignorance. if it weren't for people standing up and voicing out about the things that are wrong we'd still be living in the dark ages again this is what democracy is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I like this law of requiring people to vote. In some countries where it is optional and only say 40% of people can be bothered getting off the couch and going to the polling booth, you are effectively determining the political outcome for 100% of the population on the opinions of only the 40% who voted. So the law is trying to ensure that every voter has their views heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcginlm72 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I like this law of requiring people to vote.In some countries where it is optional and only say 40% of people can be bothered getting off the couch and going to the polling booth, you are effectively determining the political outcome for 100% of the population on the opinions of only the 40% who voted. So the law is trying to ensure that every voter has their views heard. People know when the elections are you can't miss it when it is election time as it is all that is talked about. If people don't want to vote then they don't vote they are not stupid they know if they don't vote then they don't have a say in the way in which their country is run but that again is the point of a democracy you have the freedom of choice. If someone wants to vote they will vote and if they don't they don't I'm not saying it is right not to vote I think everyone should but I am for democracy first and that includes people having the right NOT to vote and if they want to stay on their couches that is there prerogative! and as for you to say it is the "laws way of trying to ensure that every voter has their views heard" is basically saying people are too dumb to make up their own minds and have to be forced by penalty of fine to do what the government want. What I don't understand is why nobody here seems to grasp my simple point - NO-ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO HAVE TO GO TO VOTE AND NO-ONE SHOULD BE PENALISED IF THEY DON'T! Why would anyone think a system that forces people to vote or sorry go to the voting booths is a good thing? What if the government decide we can't think for ourselves on other matters and force us to do what they want, where does it end? It is wrong end of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PontePom Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I just missed the last vote as we'd only just arrived here and I'd not registered yet. But I'll do my duty next time and vote if that's what Australia want me to do. More country's should follow this ruling. In Australia it's do it our way or get out which I like shame England weren't the same... Howard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcginlm72 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I just missed the last vote as we'd only just arrived here and I'd not registered yet. But I'll do my duty next time and vote if that's what Australia want me to do. More country's should follow this ruling. In Australia it's do it our way or get out which I like shame England weren't the same... Howard Yeah and Saddam Hussen used to just kill people when they didn't do what he wanted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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