Guest scotgirl38 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Hi All, in a pretty dire situation, rented a house in Townsville for $800 pw 3 months ago, we moved in and every thing was faulty - no cooker for 2 weeks, insect infestations, faulty elecs, faulty aircon I could go on and on. Repairs never being fixed etc so went throo RTA for a mutual termination of tenancy it was that bad. (waste of time - we got put out of meeting due to us forgetting 1 email - evidence). Any way, then got a solicitor $600 and for 1 letterand fax stating we had grounds for mutual break lease, solicitor said yes thats it we can now get anothe houser, as its a mutual break lease end off . and we will not be pursued for the rents for the remainder of tenancy (4months). We Get another house, old agents refuse to give us a ref, but still got the house on grounds of we had loads of email/legal proof of the fight we had and how vindictive agents were. The Old Agent stand us up on handover day then complain to our lawyer we didnt hand back keys? They didnt acknowledge our termination form 12or 13? Then send us an eviction notice 2 weeks after we move to the old address? even tho we gave them new address? and are now pursuing us for rent till they get another tenant?. Lawyer says ignore-_easier said than done, the bill is now standing at $2700?!, our bond weve been waiting for is worth $3000 we owe them last 2.5 weeks rent approx $2000, so they are cranking up the bill as I type, hitting us with maintenance costs till they re-rent,we paid a bond cleaned to value of $600 garden $200 and told them we could pay the $2000 as soon as bond release or they can take it out of bond. I could scream, how on earth can people get away with this, the more I speak to the more have never seen their bond? Is a lawyers letter no legally binding over here, so confused, could do with advice from a ex-realestate or something. Please advice as its just plain getting us down now and spoiling everything:arghh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scotgirl38 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Meant to add the lawyer is not returning our calls - it cant get worse can it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aussie in Scotland Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 OMG...you poor buggers!!! I have lived in Townsville and it is a nice place. It is a shame that you paid top dollar on a house to have complaints!!! I hope that you are able to get past this period in your relocation to Australia. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loubeany Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 what a terrible story u poor things... Siam Susie suggested I think making sure u take pics of everything on your next property - I know that doesnt answer your problem with old rental issues but at least by going onto the next one armed you will be in the know for next time. Hope you get it sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Stories like this make me so angry. Its not good enough that they take your hard earned money for rent they want to control what you do and how you do it. I never understand that. As for problems with the property, makes my blood boil. Who do these people think they are that can turn a blind eye and take rent from people. OK we all know that there are tenants from hell but seems there are more landlord/agents from hell to me these days. The control on what people can and cannot do is unbelievable. If they want such control then do not become a landlord. They are messing with people's homes how would they like it. All this inspections that has crept in over the years, never existed years ago. If people are untidy it goes with the territory after all the landlord is the person who gets the capital gain in the end not the tenant. Sorry for the rant but I believe its out of control now and with so many people who are to rent for life they are entitled to have a home not an institution to live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest33730 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Stories like this make me so angry. Its not good enough that they take your hard earned money for rent they want to control what you do and how you do it. I never understand that. As for problems with the property, makes my blood boil. Who do these people think they are that can turn a blind eye and take rent from people. OK we all know that there are tenants from hell but seems there are more landlord/agents from hell to me these days. The control on what people can and cannot do is unbelievable. If they want such control then do not become a landlord. They are messing with people's homes how would they like it. All this inspections that has crept in over the years, never existed years ago. If people are untidy it goes with the territory after all the landlord is the person who gets the capital gain in the end not the tenant. Sorry for the rant but I believe its out of control now and with so many people who are to rent for life they are entitled to have a home not an institution to live in. Petals, I agree with much of what you say but for every tenants nightmare story I could give you an equally horrendous Landlords story. Agents are there to try and moderate situations like the one above but when push comes to shove they do act for the landlords and have to follow their instructions. In England (and soon to be Scotland) the bond/deposit is held by a government agency who will not release it until both sides agree and will make a ruling where necessary - My experience is that the benefit of the doubt is given to the tenant under this scheme. I'm not so sure of how things work in Aus but I do know it is also the case that the deposit is held centrally by a government agency and I understood it worked the same way as the UK. It wouldn't be fair of me to comment without knowing all the facts but I would be surprised that the RTA threw out scotgirls claim based on one email missing etc. That agency is very much there to help in situations like this and my suspicion would be that there is a little more to this case then has been divulged to date. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glad I Moved Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Hi Scotsgirl, Getting back on track, if you haven't done so already it might be best to get shot of your lawyer ASAP and use the RTA's internal polices and dispute resolution services to rectify this. Your original post is a little confusing - but before involving the solicitor did you complete the required RTA forms and follow their procedures for making a complaint? After the agent continually failed to your requests to make reasonable repairs to the property, you should have completed a Notice to remedy breach form which tells the agent exactly what you want them to do and gives them 7 days to act on it - i.e. do the work or, if they disagree, take the matter to the RTA for dispute resolution. Did you do this and do you still have your own copy? If they fail to rectify the faults then you should have filed your Notice of intention to leave form giving all the reasons why you are ending your tenancy and the date on which you will be vacating the property. I think this may be the "termination form 12or 13?" to which you refer. Again, did you do this and do you still have your own copy? If you did, then you followed the required steps and the RTA should be able to tell the agent to release your bond and stop charging you for ongoing property maintenance. However, if you didn't follow all these steps then I'm afraid your agent, however unscrupulous he may appear to be, is completely within his rights to do what he's doing. In effect, you have walked away from a tenancy and thus breached your agreement. He is entitled to penalise you as his clients will be losing rental income on an empty property that he has not been able to properly re-advertise. In answer to your question about a lawyer's letter not being legally binding over here, I'm afraid that it will be no substitute for following the required procedures of Queensland's Residential Tenancies and Rooming Accommodation Act and your solicitor ought to have told you this before charging you $600 for what sounds like duff advice...besides which a solictor's letter carries no more weight than anyone else's. A letter from the court would be legally binding whereas one from a solicitor is more often 1% fact, 1% opinion and 98% hot air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I don't think you could ever say a lawyer's letter is legally binding. A court case with an outcome is legally binding. A lawyers letter may contain an implied threat of legal action. Whether the recipient takes any notice of it is up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I agree with others when they say that the best course of action is to get back in touch with the RTA. it's all very well your Lawyer telling you to ignore the threats etc, but unless there has been a ruling in your favour, I do not believe he has grounds to do this. When you were first in the house and noticed all the things that were wrong, did you follow the correct procedures to have these things remedied? Unfortunately an email to the agent is not necessarily good enough. You have to serve them with a breach notice and allow them I think 7 or14 days to remedy the breach. The RTA would have explained all this I am sure and then followed up on your behalf. Did you pay your rent until the day you actually left the property - if not then you are in breach of contract. You cannot tell them to take it out of the bond money. What official notification did you give the agent that you were leaving? I hope you get it all sorted. Not a nice position to be in at all. Rudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scotgirl38 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Hi all, thanks for all the replys, it made a huge difference to us, felt had a bit of support,yes we did go through the breech process, but at the rta meeting my partner forgot to take one email about the second breech - so case thrown out. Further discussions with staff in RTA make us realise we should have gone for an appeal as this was not on. We didnt know the system, not from here, its so complicated the ins and outs of it all. No there is not more to the story, Im a landlady myself in the uk, and i can honestly say until you come over here and rent, you will not understand how corrupt the whole rental agency thing is. If I was such a bad tenant why would i pay hundreds in bond clean ect to make sure i was keeping my end of bargain? I didnt think I would have to check the cooker worked and aircon worked during a viewing, it should have the house is around 2 years old, I took for granted it would be ok, I guess I think everyone is like me - honest - big huge fat mistake! Its a complete mess, cant even rely on a solicitor to sort it out properly, but lessons have been learned, hard ones at that. At the end of the day Im a great beliver in Karma, its been proven to me time and time again - you treat people that way and steal food from my 4 kids mouths ie $3000 bond, it will come back and bite you bigstyle on the ****. Karma is a great thing, I will bide my time, as sometime soon they will undoubtly bring in some sort of legislation over here control thiefs like this (because at end of day that is what they are) and it will open the gates to claim back all stolen moneys, I will be first in que. We thought getting a solicitor after being humiliated at the RTA in front of the smirking agents would sort it out - NOT. Did you realise (all those who think landlords are to be pityed) that agents can blacklist you from ever getting a rental on grounds you didnt cut the grass and other pettiness? This is madness, this is people lives they are messing with, Nobody should be denied a basic need such as housing due to be put on a non-goverment blacklist?!! for not cutting the fecking grass!! only recently was that changed in Queensland to - they can only blacklist if you owe more that the bonds worth! Well you can make damned sure, our agent is clocking up the well over the bond mark with us - fuming. Not so much for me, because we can afford to buy (once permanent) but what about all those poor people who will never be able to buy? The blacklist is a private owned company! Why dont we all (tenants that is) set up a Private blacklist for dodgy rip off estate agents - why not? Its all wrong, very wrong, everyone i speak to in Townsville has had or known of problems getting back bonds and harassment with agents. Apart from that I love love it here, majority lovely people and totally horrified at what is happening to us, but minute i mention who the agent is, its like "Oh yes, well known for it"! So there we go, Im just the latest sucker to them I guess! What hurts me most is my lawyers behaviour, gutted thought he was a nice guy, going to sort out all this hasse, new in a country so that one really hurts. Getting off my soap box now, but i will add, just in case any agents are reading this. For every penny you dishonestly take and stress you cause a tenant , its not just the tenant, its their lives, their kids lives you are affecting, I hope you can sleep well at night making peoples lives misery and living of stolen money - KARMA. I have watched the uk agents sitting crapping it/closing shop cause the a*** has fallen out of the housing market, dont think it will ever not happen here, you may need to rely on the 'lowly tenant' to put food in your kids mouths. In the UK very few landlords trust their propertys to AGENTS. Why pay an idiot when you can manage the rental yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scotgirl38 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 here here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glad I Moved Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I'm not sure of you've following them, but recently there have been numerous highly passionate threads in the Sydney Morning Herald about the way tenants are treated. The bulk of comments reflected what you have experienced. I don't know if it is a historical thing but the attitude of agents towards tenants in Aus seems to be one of perpetual conflict with agents convinced that every tenant will do whatever they can to wreck the property and tenants equally sure that the agents will rip them off just as frequently. As far as the bond goes, it appears to be a given that you'll be lucky to get all of it back at the end of your lease. It may be that because the rental aspect of the real estate business is perceived as being the lowest rung on the ladder, the sort of people who end up as agents can't cut it in the sales office and therefore end up with a massive chip on their shoulder. I've met a few who would certainly support this view. However, with the property market attracting more and more well paid and educated people who simply can't afford to buy (or are intelligent enough not to buy in a falling market), the traditional sterotype of the renter as being a beer-bellied bogan or a house full of party hardy twenty-somethings is changing. This new breed of renters, and I include myself amongst, aren't going to tolerate being messed around by some stroppy agent who treats them with barely disguised contempt so hopefully the market will in some way begin to correct itslef. In the meantime, there is always recourse to your state's rental tribunals. You might even consider writing to the agent's boss. In larger Real Estate offices the principal may not even know what's going on and if their business starts getting a bad rap from renters the word will soon spread to other landlords looking for someone to manage their properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Agents who needs them, I call them the fence sitters, every time I had a dispute to handle and you asked the agent, oh I can't remember, oh I don't know. All the time no respect here. As for inspections, they are outrageous in my view, bad tenants come with the territory, if you don't like it don't be a landlord. Bit like the share market if you cannot afford to lose don't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest33730 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I must admit, having spent some time researching the market in Aus the agents do have a poor reputation in most places and I can see why. In the UK it is becoming more and more specialist and the laws more onerous and in my opinion it is becoming harder for the average person to manage their property themselves. In Aus it is usually an add-on to a real estate agents business rather than a separate profession and because generally the demand outstrips the supply here the landlord/agent holds all the cards. I own a few letting agencies back in the UK but I am seriously thinking of opening up here as I am sure there would be a lot of business for an agent who did viewings when it suited the tenant, who got repairs done when they said they would, who was willing to lose the business of unreasonable landlords and most importantly actually liked people!! Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glad I Moved Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 That would be a remarkable USP if you could pull it off! Seriously, I think the market is ripe for such a revolutionary approach and by default it would attract the best of both worlds. Need someone to manage an office in Sydney? Give me a call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scotgirl38 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Good point, I must admit people Ive spoken too, just usuall y accept this bad treatment, like its the norm. They dont bother with the RTA process cause they dont understand it. To be honest all the info you get when you lease a property is pretty mind boggling, all the rules and regs for the RTA, my partner is an engineer, I used to work in a council housing dept and we struggled to grasp all the dos and donts which is why we failed miserably with the RTA. In answer to speaking to the owner of the agency - yes tried that in the early days of no air con/cooker/ant infestations, she walked out saying I was abusive ( I broke down in tears in front of her= her thinking I was abusive ) she couldnt handle the embarassing situation hard faced b**** so stormed out of house!! She then went to her office and wrote my partner an email sayin I bawled her out of house in an abusive manner! :arghh: He gave her a sharp shift back on email. It goes on and on and on! They are pretty unprofessional this lot. I guess she couldnt handle me in tears, my little kids running around sweating in the heat getting the runs and vomiting due to climate change and no aircon - so I suppose she must have a bit of a guilt trip! Anyway, due to my having the audacity to complain re crap house, Im flaming payin for it now!:arghh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aussie in Scotland Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Good point, I must admit people Ive spoken too, just usuall y accept this bad treatment, like its the norm. They dont bother with the RTA process cause they dont understand it. To be honest all the info you get when you lease a property is pretty mind boggling, all the rules and regs for the RTA, my partner is an engineer, I used to work in a council housing dept and we struggled to grasp all the dos and donts which is why we failed miserably with the RTA. In answer to speaking to the owner of the agency - yes tried that in the early days of no air con/cooker/ant infestations, she walked out saying I was abusive ( I broke down in tears in front of her= her thinking I was abusive ) she couldnt handle the embarassing situation hard faced b**** so stormed out of house!! She then went to her office and wrote my partner an email sayin I bawled her out of house in an abusive manner! :arghh: He gave her a sharp shift back on email. It goes on and on and on! They are pretty unprofessional this lot. I guess she couldnt handle me in tears, my little kids running around sweating in the heat getting the runs and vomiting due to climate change and no aircon - so I suppose she must have a bit of a guilt trip!Anyway, due to my having the audacity to complain re crap house, Im flaming payin for it now!:arghh: I feel so bad for you. Living in Townsville in any season can be unbearable at times. Without airconditioning it will be hell for you coming from the UK. One of the other things is...you weren't renting at the bottom end of the market. $800 is ALOT of money to pay for a rental!!! For that I would be wanting a beautiful house along the river somewhere...with only a couple of ants and cockroaches!!! You didn't do anything wrong...you expected to get what you paid for!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 We rented a house in SA it was brand new and the agent and landlord were quick to respond to the odd snags we dicovered as we were the first people to live in the house. One of the new lawns that had not been irrigated died despite me watering it with a hosepipe (when permitted!) and they understood it had just been seeded not turfed and was never going to survive the summer! When we had our house built and needed an agent she was our first choice as we knew she was fair to both landlord and tenant and always responded quickly. We are in Uk so she goes the extra mile to make sure everything is OK, her dad even mowed the lawn between tenants and she hoovered round before the next people moved in no charge. So not all agents are out to get you!! Mine is lovely and I send her flowers as a thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I have to say, that of the many people I know who have rented, there's only one that I know did not get her bond back. We got ours back, no problem at all........well except that I forgot to claim it and discovered the other day that I have $4000 waiting for me to collect ......only 2.5 years late!! Love Rudi x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gaga Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I can totally sympathise with you. When we were building our house in Melbourne my partner was offered a job in Brisbane so we rented up there and I have never been treated so badly in all my life! Treated like a second class citizen, made me so angry. How about calling up A Current Affair or Today Tonight? can't stand the shows myself but they love these sorts of things, especially if there is a culture of corruption, you may find that others come forward which will surely help your case. Even if it is a lost cause, surely it would be worth doing it just to show them up? Or even walking into the agents office and telling them that you are going to the media....would love to see their faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest33730 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I can totally sympathise with you. When we were building our house in Melbourne my partner was offered a job in Brisbane so we rented up there and I have never been treated so badly in all my life! Treated like a second class citizen, made me so angry. How about calling up A Current Affair or Today Tonight? can't stand the shows myself but they love these sorts of things, especially if there is a culture of corruption, you may find that others come forward which will surely help your case. Even if it is a lost cause, surely it would be worth doing it just to show them up? Or even walking into the agents office and telling them that you are going to the media....would love to see their faces! I doubt it will make any difference - the agency has already had the approval of the governing body for the decision re the deposit. I have had two cases where members of the public have gone to the papers because they were 'outraged' however when the papers contacted us and we showed them the photographs (i.e. the state the property was left in) and records of the conversations we keep we never heard another thing. I am sure the OP has had an awful time but the facts are still that a complaint was made to the governing body but the body found in favour of the agency. We are told that this was on a technicality however I am certain if you spoke to the agency that there would be another point of view which for the moment is absent from this forum. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scotgirl38 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hi Daniel, no other point of view, we forgot to take a copy of the second breech notice against landlord, simple as that! We genuinely are getting ripped off. Cant wait till second RTA meeting. And here is the latest, We paid 2 months rent this month by mistake to our new agent, instead of 1 and they will not pay us back the excess, so no food money till next pay day which is middle of next month! Why? I dont know, hey maybe they just like being in control yes? Maybe you think this is right too? Take it your an agent? And just to add, the house which we were in was only for 2 months, and I paid $600 for a bond clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life on easy street Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Stories like this make me so angry. Its not good enough that they take your hard earned money for rent they want to control what you do and how you do it. I never understand that. As for problems with the property, makes my blood boil. Who do these people think they are that can turn a blind eye and take rent from people. OK we all know that there are tenants from hell but seems there are more landlord/agents from hell to me these days. The control on what people can and cannot do is unbelievable. If they want such control then do not become a landlord. They are messing with people's homes how would they like it. All this inspections that has crept in over the years, never existed years ago. If people are untidy it goes with the territory after all the landlord is the person who gets the capital gain in the end not the tenant. Sorry for the rant but I believe its out of control now and with so many people who are to rent for life they are entitled to have a home not an institution to live in. Well said that is so true. The Australia of today is totally unrecognisable compared to the Australia of 25 years ago. Australians appear to have studied at the Gordon Gecko school of economics Australia is no longer a fair place to live it is now a case of greed is god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowdonius Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Sounds a complete nightmare. We are off to townsville in 4 weeks time so any advice would be great. hope everything is working out for you now. james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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