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Guest flakey

Emotional Blackmail (the defence)

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Guest flakey

In my short time as a member of this forum I've seen a lot of things said on the subject of emotional blackmail. The majority comes the the "victims" and very little (if none ) is put up in defence.

After pondering on this subject for a while I believe a little compassion and understanding is required for the so called victims. What you need to do is imagine yourself in their position. For example, If your child that you have breast fed(mothers), changed its sh1tty nappies, dropped off/picked up from school, pained over the adolescent years, bailed out financially, comforted emotionally, and all the other things that goes with bringing children into the world - suddenly says to you they are upping sticks and moving to the other side of the planet and taking you beloved grandchildren with them, it must feel like having their hearts ripped out.

Us on the other are on a fantastic adventure with high hopes and expectations with our whole lives ahead of us. What have we got to be mad about?

 

All I'm saying is; you only get one mum and dad, give them the same understanding that they have given you all of your lives and cut them a bit of slack.

 

Here's to all the Mums and Dads that we are leaving behind:notworthy:

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Ha ha!! When you put it like that I'm surprised most parents aren't waving you off at the airport with a big sigh of relief :biggrin::wink:

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Guest guest37336
In my short time as a member of this forum I've seen a lot of things said on the subject of emotional blackmail. The majority comes the the "victims" and very little (if none ) is put up in defence.

After pondering on this subject for a while I believe a little compassion and understanding is required for the so called victims. What you need to do is imagine yourself in their position. For example, If your child that you have breast fed(mothers), changed its sh1tty nappies, dropped off/picked up from school, pained over the adolescent years, bailed out financially, comforted emotionally, and all the other things that goes with bringing children into the world - suddenly says to you they are upping sticks and moving to the other side of the planet and taking you beloved grandchildren with them, it must feel like having their hearts ripped out.

Us on the other are on a fantastic adventure with high hopes and expectations with our whole lives ahead of us. What have we got to be mad about?

 

All I'm saying is; you only get one mum and dad, give them the same understanding that they have given you all of your lives and cut them a bit of slack.

 

Here's to all the Mums and Dads that we are leaving behind:notworthy:

 

 

I agree to a point flakey, BUT.

 

Whilst it could be said that the majority of parents will be upset to see their children/grandchildren leave, and rightly so, some of the comments made to some would be migrants are not only cruel, but vindictive and vitriolic.

 

The WHOLE point of a parent, is to do what we can to make them happy, :jiggy:, we will do all we can to make sure their lives are happy, fulfilled and for all intents and purposes, full of joy.

 

I am very lucky in the fact that my parents have never said I was selfish etc, for wanting to live in Australia, not once have they said this, in fact they have often packed my bags for me and told me to bugger off, :biglaugh::biglaugh:.

 

Kidding aside, parents are fully entitled to say they will be upset to see a loved one leave, of course they will be, BUT. When comments such as, 'Well, I'll never visit you,' Your selfish for going', I cannot blame anyone rearing up. Of course you parents deserve love and respect, (for the most part) but parents also have to realise that for you to be happy and contented the move is integral to you.

 

Parents often love their children 'unconditionally' and this is the way it should be, and part of that love is to realise that as grown adults wee have made a decision for OUR family, much the same as many parents did when they were younger.

 

I am not saying that sadness and grief should not be a totally rational emotion when it comes to saying good bye, but a to use emotional blackmail is in my opinion just not on. In my experience as a parent this is the last thing I would do. Sadness, yes of course, but I will (if the time ever comes) wish my kids all the best in the world, and drive them to the airport with a hug and tear in my eye knowing they have made the correct decision for THEM.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Cheers Tony.:wink:

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Guest Reed dog

Thanks for those words from the other side of the coin. I have just experienced the upset of my parents after they latched onto one comment from my Facebook ramblings with friends whereby I have set a personal target and posted it for my friends to see and comment on. All hell just broke. People. Be wary of these social network sites as anybody can look at them. This row has been a long time coming with my parents, so maybe it will finally sink in and they can stop being so negative and trying to crush our dreams. We are going to Australia to give our children a better chance in life. Final. As heartless as it sounds I am not going to stop this time. I cancelled all my plans in 1994 and look where I am. No better off. I love my Mum and Dad. My kids come 1st however.

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Guest BrightonBoys

I think this will always be an emotive topic, and all sides have "their" valid point.

 

For me I tried to see things from my Mum's point of view as she was using the emotional blackmail of me leaving her and my elderly Grandmother to quite good effect (as much as I love my Mum she can be an utter bitch). Talking to my parents in November my (step) Dad let it slip that when we first got to gether as a family 30 yrs back, they were very close to going to Canada. They didn't because Dad didn't get the job in the end.

 

When I challenged Mum about this and how upsetting it was for me, her using the blackmail and how would she have reacted if her parents had done it, she tried laughing it off and saying I was doing it for selfish reasons and not to give my "family" a better life. Even then I tried seeing things from her perspective, but you know I can't anymore. She will have to deal with us not being here, and when she comes out she will hopefully see I have made the right choice for my family. (partner!!)

 

However the blackmail is changing to comments like 'not being able to afford to come' or ' I dont like the heat' so more of a guilt trip now.

 

I don't think it will stop and I can see how it will be when we are there and the comments come flying!!

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Guest flakey

@ Tony. All i'm saying is try to understand why they are being unreasonable and try to put your self in their position and ask yourself how you would react (honestly)

 

@Reed dog. Another theme I see repeated over and over on these forums is the " to give our children a better chance in life" I'm not saying you are not sincere but I suspect a lot of parents (not all) use this to compensate about the hurt they are causing family they are leaving behind.

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Guest flakey
I think this will always be an emotive topic, and all sides have "their" valid point.

 

For me I tried to see things from my Mum's point of view as she was using the emotional blackmail of me leaving her and my elderly Grandmother to quite good effect (as much as I love my Mum she can be an utter bitch). Talking to my parents in November my (step) Dad let it slip that when we first got to gether as a family 30 yrs back, they were very close to going to Canada. They didn't because Dad didn't get the job in the end.

 

When I challenged Mum about this and how upsetting it was for me, her using the blackmail and how would she have reacted if her parents had done it, she tried laughing it off and saying I was doing it for selfish reasons and not to give my "family" a better life. Even then I tried seeing things from her perspective, but you know I can't anymore. She will have to deal with us not being here, and when she comes out she will hopefully see I have made the right choice for my family. (partner!!)

 

However the blackmail is changing to comments like 'not being able to afford to come' or ' I dont like the heat' so more of a guilt trip now.

 

I don't think it will stop and I can see how it will be when we are there and the comments come flying!!

 

The "can't afford to come" is quite a valid argument for most parents in these hard times and a 23 hour flight for people who are average aged 70s, is quite an ordeal.

 

I'm not saying whats wrong or right, just playing devils advocate.

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I think this will always be an emotive topic, and all sides have "their" valid point.

 

For me I tried to see things from my Mum's point of view as she was using the emotional blackmail of me leaving her and my elderly Grandmother to quite good effect (as much as I love my Mum she can be an utter bitch). Talking to my parents in November my (step) Dad let it slip that when we first got to gether as a family 30 yrs back, they were very close to going to Canada. They didn't because Dad didn't get the job in the end.

 

When I challenged Mum about this and how upsetting it was for me, her using the blackmail and how would she have reacted if her parents had done it, she tried laughing it off and saying I was doing it for selfish reasons and not to give my "family" a better life. Even then I tried seeing things from her perspective, but you know I can't anymore. She will have to deal with us not being here, and when she comes out she will hopefully see I have made the right choice for my family. (partner!!)

 

However the blackmail is changing to comments like 'not being able to afford to come' or ' I dont like the heat' so more of a guilt trip now.

 

I don't think it will stop and I can see how it will be when we are there and the comments come flying!!

 

Do we have the same parents? Touche! :hug:


Partner visa lodged 5/7/10, subclass 309 Partner visa granted on 29/10/10. Permanent Residency visa granted 15/11/12. :cool:

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Guest flakey

BTW thanks for the comments, don't think i'm rude but my "thanks" button doesn't work.

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The "can't afford to come" is quite a valid argument for most parents in these hard times and a 23 hour flight for people who are average aged 70s, is quite an ordeal.

 

I'm not saying whats wrong or right, just playing devils advocate.

 

But that doesn't make it right to threaten your children that you will never see them again. Its a form of blackmail. As with most issues/problems - it can be worked around. My mum has said outright that she will not be coming to Australia despite me offering to pay.


Partner visa lodged 5/7/10, subclass 309 Partner visa granted on 29/10/10. Permanent Residency visa granted 15/11/12. :cool:

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Guest flakey
But that doesn't make it right to threaten your children that you will never see them again. Its a form of blackmail. As with most issues/problems - it can be worked around. My mum has said outright that she will not be coming to Australia despite me offering to pay.

 

I'm not saying whats right or wrong, just pointing out that it can be a very upsetting time for parents.

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Yes I do agree with you to some extent. I think that the majority of people are extremely sensitive to their parents/families feelings though, and most people seem to be having these problems despite this. To be honest, I would have thought that letting your children go to a begin a new life with hope and optimism is about the most you could ever want for your children? The chance for them to be happy? At least I would hope so....


Partner visa lodged 5/7/10, subclass 309 Partner visa granted on 29/10/10. Permanent Residency visa granted 15/11/12. :cool:

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Guest BrightonBoys
The "can't afford to come" is quite a valid argument for most parents in these hard times and a 23 hour flight for people who are average aged 70s, is quite an ordeal.

 

I'm not saying whats wrong or right, just playing devils advocate.

 

I am lucky enough that my parents can afford to come to Oz (my Mum forgets I have a copy of the will and know exactly what they have!!) Most 70 year olds are far more healthy now than say 10 or 20 years ago, nad my parents are in their 60's so have years left in them!

 

I think it is great that parents want to move to give their kids a better life. Most parents do at some level or other. (mine moved from the East End to Bedfordshire for exactly the same reasons). My real Dads parents were livid with my Dad moving away. Didnt stop him though.

 

Devils advocate or not but I do think you are pushing alot of buttons with this. The whole move is an ordeal on so many levels, and getting grief from parents only adds to the stress of it.

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Guest guest37336
@ Tony. All i'm saying is try to understand why they are being unreasonable and try to put your self in their position and ask yourself how you would react (honestly)

 

@Reed dog. Another theme I see repeated over and over on these forums is the " to give our children a better chance in life" I'm not saying you are not sincere but I suspect a lot of parents (not all) use this to compensate about the hurt they are causing family they are leaving behind.

 

Honestly. I would with hand on heart say good luck to them, in fact I would be bloody jealous:shocked:. OK, so maybe I am lucky in the fact that I started travelling from a very early age, so can understand the fascination , etc.

 

But I would in all honesty wish them luck no matter. Yep, with tear in my eye and sadness in my heart, but I would always 'understand' their reasons.

 

Cheers Tony.:wink:

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Guest flakey

Another cliché comes to mind "we are all different". That also goes for parents.

 

My father (a widower) has been nothing but supportive in his attitude to my plans but I have been told by some of his friends that he is privately devastated. If he where to use underhand methods to make us stay I would hope I could be understanding.

 

Again, the " give their kids a better life" is debatable and probably deserves its own thread but (but not from me):wideeyed:

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I am lucky enough that my parents can afford to come to Oz (my Mum forgets I have a copy of the will and know exactly what they have!!) Most 70 year olds are far more healthy now than say 10 or 20 years ago, nad my parents are in their 60's so have years left in them!

 

I think it is great that parents want to move to give their kids a better life. Most parents do at some level or other. (mine moved from the East End to Bedfordshire for exactly the same reasons). My real Dads parents were livid with my Dad moving away. Didnt stop him though.

 

Devils advocate or not but I do think you are pushing alot of buttons with this. The whole move is an ordeal on so many levels, and getting grief from parents only adds to the stress of it.

 

I agree. I think this thread is a tad contentious and not sure its that helpful. I am sure that the OP didn't intend this thread to be contentious (at least I hope not), but this is a massive problem for a great many people on here - and it feels slightly close to the wire for lots of people struggling. Most decent people couldn't be more aware of the implications of leaving their family behind.


Partner visa lodged 5/7/10, subclass 309 Partner visa granted on 29/10/10. Permanent Residency visa granted 15/11/12. :cool:

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Guest flakey

OK. I get the message.

 

If you want the thread closed just say and i will ask the administrator to close it.

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OK. I get the message.

 

If you want the thread closed just say and i will ask the administrator to close it.

 

Sorry - just to be clear, you have every right to start the thread, I am possibly being oversensitive. It just feels like because you have yourself said that your own father is being extremely supportive of your move (even if he is saddened in private), perhaps you aren't in a position to argue the points you have raised? I do fundamentally agree with you in that most parents would be going through a hellish time. Migration has been likened to a bereavement on both sides on numerous ocassions and perhaps that is why the subject is so contentious.

 

No need to close the thread! No offence meant either.


Partner visa lodged 5/7/10, subclass 309 Partner visa granted on 29/10/10. Permanent Residency visa granted 15/11/12. :cool:

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Guest flakey
Sorry - just to be clear, you have every right to start the thread, I am possibly being oversensitive. It just feels like because you have yourself said that your own father is being extremely supportive of your move (even if he is saddened in private), perhaps you aren't in a position to argue the points you have raised? I do fundamentally agree with you in that most parents would be going through a hellish time. Migration has been likened to a bereavement on both sides on numerous ocassions and perhaps that is why the subject is so contentious.

 

No need to close the thread! No offence meant either.

 

No offence taken.

 

Being a Liberian I have this habit of (rightly or wrongly) defending the underdog, its gotten me into quite a few scrapes in the past:wubclub:

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No offence taken.

 

Being a Liberian I have this habit of (rightly or wrongly) defending the underdog, its gotten me into quite a few scrapes in the past:wubclub:

 

No worries. Defending the underdog is no bad thing! :wubclub:


Partner visa lodged 5/7/10, subclass 309 Partner visa granted on 29/10/10. Permanent Residency visa granted 15/11/12. :cool:

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Guest The Ropey HOFF

I think most rellies fall into two catogories..............

 

1. Rellies who visit regular, like it when you visit, phone alot, in general keep in touch.

 

2. Those that don't.

 

To me the former who make an effort have every right to not be happy about their loved ones emigrating and it will be a great loss to them, those that make little effort to keep in touch when you live in the uk, can have little complaint and i would only feel bad for those rellies that do make an effort to keep in touch here in the uk..

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I'm inclined to agree with the OP. I think we need to cut those left behind a lot of slack. Sure they may say things which make you feel guilty - so be it, if you are going to be a successful migrant you have to have a thick skin, a fair dose of selfishness and more than average self sufficiency to make a go of it on the other side of the world on your own and, to some extent, those barbs should roll off your back and you need to be the bigger person and work doubly hard to maintain the relationship (you never know when you might need it!). The "doing it for a better life for the kids" is a crock, to be honest - own it for what it is, an adult itch for adventure and if you can defend that to your nearest and dearest then by all means go for it. By dumping it on the kids, it is the leaver who is doing the emotional blackmail stuff just as much!

 

I think, too, everyone who is going through this should put themselves in the place of the people being left behind and reflecting on how they will feel when their kids turn around and move to the other side of the world following their opportunities taking their grandkids away with them (so you wont be able to see the kids on Christmas day, give them a hug when they fall off their bike, go to the grandparents' day at school, tell your personal grandchild stories to your friends, read book after book to a little person when mum and dad are busy etc). Many young Aussies do just that so dont be surprised if they decide that Europe offers them a better lifestyle and even if they dont head to Europe they could just as easily find themselves 10++ hours drive away from you which is almost as bad.

 

Personally I never had any flak from my parents but, then, they were pretty independent and took matters into their own hands and came to Aus for half a year every year and so kept contact with my kids. Not everyone is fortunate enough either financially or healthwise to be able to do that though, they know they were gifted in that way - now they are suffering as they dont have contact with their great grandchildren in the same way although when the next crop of gt grandkids come along they will be in UK and hopefully more accessible. Similarly, I have never given my son flak for deciding that his life was better in UK (he just came for a holiday and was positively itching to get back to his life!!!!) but I wont say it is easy to let him go without some sadness and it would have been so easy to have said something which reflects my hurt but I am acutely aware never to do that .... but it wouldnt have been difficult!

 

So to those of you who are feeling the barbs of emotional blackmail remember your initial shots which are emotional blackmail themselves (I am doing this for my kids, how can you possibly be nasty to me?) and also consider how you will behave when your kids do the same thing to you (as there is a better than average chance that they will). And dont expect the hole that you have left in the lives of those left behind to remain forever open and ready for you to fall back into should the need arise - they will fill it however they need to so that they feel that their lives are whole.

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Guest Reed dog
OK. I get the message.

 

If you want the thread closed just say and i will ask the administrator to close it.

flakey. By starting this thread you have helped in more ways than you intended. I found the thread in my desperation to understand what I was doing wrong. I now know that it is not just me going through this with parents that see the negative in everything. Yep they are coming up to 70. They have used the old we will never come out there, we couldn't afford it, its too far, you are taking our grand kids away forever etc arguments, but I have worked my socks off for 30 years to achieve my goals in life and this is another. I could continue as I was here in a very good job and be unhappy and disillusioned with life like them, or I can put my kids first and give them a chance.

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I'm inclined to agree with the OP. I think we need to cut those left behind a lot of slack. Sure they may say things which make you feel guilty - so be it, if you are going to be a successful migrant you have to have a thick skin, a fair dose of selfishness and more than average self sufficiency to make a go of it on the other side of the world on your own and, to some extent, those barbs should roll off your back and you need to be the bigger person and work doubly hard to maintain the relationship (you never know when you might need it!). The "doing it for a better life for the kids" is a crock, to be honest - own it for what it is, an adult itch for adventure and if you can defend that to your nearest and dearest then by all means go for it. By dumping it on the kids, it is the leaver who is doing the emotional blackmail stuff just as much!

 

I think, too, everyone who is going through this should put themselves in the place of the people being left behind and reflecting on how they will feel when their kids turn around and move to the other side of the world following their opportunities taking their grandkids away with them (so you wont be able to see the kids on Christmas day, give them a hug when they fall off their bike, go to the grandparents' day at school, tell your personal grandchild stories to your friends, read book after book to a little person when mum and dad are busy etc). Many young Aussies do just that so dont be surprised if they decide that Europe offers them a better lifestyle and even if they dont head to Europe they could just as easily find themselves 10++ hours drive away from you which is almost as bad.

 

Personally I never had any flak from my parents but, then, they were pretty independent and took matters into their own hands and came to Aus for half a year every year and so kept contact with my kids. Not everyone is fortunate enough either financially or healthwise to be able to do that though, they know they were gifted in that way - now they are suffering as they dont have contact with their great grandchildren in the same way although when the next crop of gt grandkids come along they will be in UK and hopefully more accessible. Similarly, I have never given my son flak for deciding that his life was better in UK (he just came for a holiday and was positively itching to get back to his life!!!!) but I wont say it is easy to let him go without some sadness and it would have been so easy to have said something which reflects my hurt but I am acutely aware never to do that .... but it wouldnt have been difficult!

 

So to those of you who are feeling the barbs of emotional blackmail remember your initial shots which are emotional blackmail themselves (I am doing this for my kids, how can you possibly be nasty to me?) and also consider how you will behave when your kids do the same thing to you (as there is a better than average chance that they will). And dont expect the hole that you have left in the lives of those left behind to remain forever open and ready for you to fall back into should the need arise - they will fill it however they need to so that they feel that their lives are whole.

 

 

I agree with lots of what you say Quoll. However not all of us are moving to australia because we want to give our kids a better life. Some of us have australian partners which makes it all the more complicated as there is family to think of on both sides of the world.


Partner visa lodged 5/7/10, subclass 309 Partner visa granted on 29/10/10. Permanent Residency visa granted 15/11/12. :cool:

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I agree with lots of what you say Quoll. However not all of us are moving to australia because we want to give our kids a better life. Some of us have australian partners which makes it all the more complicated as there is family to think of on both sides of the world.

 

Yup, in that situation myself - married to an Aussie makes it very complicated! Best idea in that situation is not to be close to either family - so maybe 10 hours away is about right! If one of you is enmeshed with their family whilst the other has no one of theirs around it is very easy for the resentment to set in. I hate having to go to Christmas with my inlaws - lovely people though they are - because it just reinforces how alone my parents are at that time of year. However, to balance that, my parents have seen more of their great granddaughter than has my mother in law because when we go to UK, we go for weeks whereas when we go to the inlaws we only go for a few days (get more emotional blackmail from the m-i-l too although she now has serious dementia and isnt at all constrained about what she says).

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