Paul1Perth Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 We agree on something at last. Townsville - your hot topic. my cousin who lives with his life partner who is black and surprising enough, they have never suffered any homophobia or racism, and he says he has lived in Townsville for 10 years and it is a breathtakingky beautiful place, really modern sea front, with the walkway, the Strand i think its called, where there are outdoor swimming pools and play areas for the kids, with adjoining barbecues, outdoor cafes and resteraunts, and the atmosphere when sitting out in the evening is brilliant. The weather he loves, it is hot, but he says he has great air-con, just an idea, also he says the houses are alot cheaper than other areas and you can get a real bargain if you look around. I suppose everyone likes different things. I also like Townsville a lot. Not lived there but worked there on a few occassions. It has improved tremendously in the last 10 years or so, since they finished the strand really. Magnetic Island is a great place to visit and fairly cheap to get to. If you go inland a way, near the uni and don't venture very far I can see that it wouldn't seem very nice. Hot and not a lot going on. But the place isn't that big and it would only take a little while to get to the nicer parts. You have to make a bit of an effort, wherever you live. Happy New Year to all by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 :laugh: I have lived in England for various periods over the years but my early years were spent here and I finished my schooling in the UK. Yes I think when people see they can earn good money building houses or fixing the plumbing or selling shoes or now working in the mines it could influence how long they stay in school and how they view education in their long term future. I don't think the money you could earn from selling shoes would come anywhere near the money you can earn building houses or fixing the plumbing or working in the mines. You need a 4 year apprenticeship to be a plumber and a similar time to be a decent brickie. Working in the mines also means some form of qualification. Having done an apprenticeship and a degree later on. I would say the apprenticeship was a lot harder so I think it's great that the apprentice trained people are at last getting a good living. I don't think the shoe salesmans salary was all that flash BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I think you took the shoe salesman comment too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36762 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Chaz,youve got a few bob thru commodities broking i think?good luck to yer,dont begrudge yer a £,thats the truth,swear down,nothing to do with money this debate,just outlook.I just dont like stereotyping because of occupation,and i think thats a particularly english trait,as shown by the indignance shown by many on here because tradies earn the same as "professionals" in oz? But in truth its not that different here,ive got mates who are proffesionals,masters degrees but thick as ~~~~,and i earn more than them(in a normal yr,so what?!),what gets on my wick is the people who pigeonhole people,IE....tradie=thick,office worker=clever,NOTHING could be further from the truth,now its time for bed,debate stereotyping tomoz:SLEEP::wink: who said such a thing? I never said nuffink about tradies being thick (did I?). My point-and I'll make it again-is that in Australia there is such an emphasis on working class culture that one get's the impression everyone is a plumber or fitter and turner (I'd love to know what that involves..fitting and turning what exactly?), and that there are no teachers, doctors, lawyers, out there. Surely there must be, or as you say Oz wouldn't work. They're around I'm sure, but they're camouflaged in their ute and thongs (maybe?). My 4 year old put the world to rights (as he often does) the other day when we drove past a bloke in a pin striped suit. Needless to say he stuck out like a sore thumb here in the fashion vacuum of Geelong. My son said immediately...'that man sells houses'. Funnily enough, same little bloke in pin striped suit sold us our new house...what goes around etc... When I lived in the UK, we lived in a very affluent area populated exclusively (or so it felt) by precious mums with their little darlings, and sallow tired looking dads working their nuts off in the city to pay for said mum/baby to frequent costa coffee every day. In exactly the same way, it felt wrong, skewed, artificial. Sure there'd have been other 'normal' working class people in the same town but it didn't feel like that. But I suppose that sort of pigeon holing is acceptable pabs, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The apprenticeships seem to take as long as a degree - presumably one year learning how to care for your yakka boots and high viz fabric, another year of intensive health and safety - how to carry a tea cup and so on - and then the final year on pricing/distribution issues - a massive, random stab in the dark accompanied with the 'I've got no idea how long it will take to get up from Brissy' statement. I can't think of another country where learning is actively discouraged to this extent - other than may be Afghanistan under the Taliban - but even then it's a close call.....:clown-beardy_bastar Presumably you have never done an apprenticeship. It usually involves working during the day and studying at nightschool for a couple of nights a week. Why wouldn't it take as long as a degree? Unlike doing a degree where it's up to you whether you bother to attend lectures or not, have every Wednesday or some other afternoon off for sports at other unis, get to wear whatever suits your fancy, if you do bother to attend (no overalls or blunstones for you guys), and get copious amounts of holidays. What do you think people doing apprenticeships are up to? where do you get the idea that "learning is actively discouraged". As mentioned in a previous post I've had the pleasure of doing an apprenticeship and a degree later in life. The degree was so much easier that there would be no comparison. The apprenticeship meant that you had to turn up for work every day, otherwise you didn't get paid and would have been kicked off the apprenticeship for someone that wanted to put a bit of effort in. You learn on the job and the things I learnt during that time I will never forget. I found the degree a means to an end. It was like learning a whole lot of stuff that you hoped you would never have to use but playing the game long enough to get the bit of paper that would lead to a decent job. Then, once you get the job they put you in a graduate training program where you learn what the real job world is about. My son had the chioce of Uni or an apprenticeship. He's now a qualified electrician and is already earning good money. His mates who went to uni are just qualifying, have debts and haven't any experience of real work yet. I guess on the upside for all of them there is work around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I hold nothing against the blue collar/tradie sector (well, not since my booze-fuelled younger wilder days). In fact , in London I've dealt with some very professional, hardworking and reasonably priced tradesmen - from Poland for the main part - as they turn up on time, don't try and fleece you or leave fag butts and food round your house. What gets me is that I don't see what harm there would be in Australia encouraging a bit more higher education and intellectual pursuit - where is the cutting edge research and development, its space programme, the throbbing quick fire political debate or a vibrant literacy scene? For a country whose only wealth is based on the hauling out of coal and iron ore I'm willing to wager that the much needed 'carbon capture' technology (if we are to prevent the overheating of the earth) , just ain't gonna be an Aussie invention! I get the impression (at risk of a sweeping generalisation) that cultural aspiration here involves giving up on education at the age of 16, and, as the government makes disinterested kids waste another 2 years at school - undertake the path of least resistance at TAFE - maybe pastry chef (how the heck can that take two years!!) ... preggars by 20 - have 4 or 5 kids - and class good times as a bbq on the beach, holding a fishing rod sat in a tinny, or the receipt of a (bizarrely motivated) baby bonus/stimulus package from the government. I don't hold anything against these people - but I do think it is healthy to have them as a minority not a majority - overseas travel, a fulfilling career, engaging in arts and literature, speaking other languages are all a significant part of life in my extremely humble opinion.... I'm not even suggesting that being a tradie and travel, arts and literature etc are mutually exclusive - they are not. I've met loads of marine mechanics sailing around the world (they can pick up work in each port as engines invariably break). However, I do think without inspiring kids at school to find awe in the world by placing an emphasis on geography , history, literature etc rather than sandwich making and hairdressing, we are stealing from the futures they may have had... (Sh7t! Apologies, I had a Daily Mail moment there!!) And this is from the same guy who sounds like he trained as a teacher but can't be bothered to "bust his arse" so works in a shoe shop. Lets hope we're not hoping for any cutting edge research from you then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 OECD stats Tertiary entry rates in peer age groups Australia = 85.7% (2007) UK = 55.4% (2007) Tertiary graduation rates in population at graduation age Australia = 49.8% (2006) UK = 38.7% (2007) (Source: Country statistical profiles: Key tables from OECD - OECD iLibrary) Excerpt from a Transcript of Gordon Brown’s speech on education "Right across the world, there is an urgency and energy in education reform: On average across the OECD university graduation rates have nearly doubled between 1995 and 2007. Finland and Australia now have graduation rates from tertiary education of around 50 per cent. President Obama has just launched a $250 million public-private initiative to improve education in science, technology, engineering and maths. And Kevin Rudd is reforming Australia’s schools system by allocating over half a billion dollars for improving teacher quality. So for us to do even better we must do even more in a world where countries are constantly striving to drive up educational standards and where parents want the best possible education for their children." (Source: https://community.oecd.org/docs/DOC-6026;jsessionid=F789589ADE7057DFDF4BA20BE14B01AC) Guardian Article "UK plummets from third to 15th place in OECD university listing, behind Slovakia and Czech Republic" (Source: UK's graduation rates fall to below average) Top 10 Even though reaching second place in the world doesn't equate to Australia being second best at tertiary educating its young people it does put into question comments like the following that state Australia as a whole steers young people towards TAFE and away from university. "What I have noticed about Oz (mainly when teaching), however, is that the young are steered towards the trades and TAFE stuff , rather than encouraged to go to Uni - there are policies encouraging them to have big families early." "I get the impression (at risk of a sweeping generalisation) that cultural aspiration here involves giving up on education at the age of 16, and, as the government makes disinterested kids waste another 2 years at school - undertake the path of least resistance at TAFE - maybe pastry chef (how the heck can that take two years!!) ... preggars by 20 - have 4 or 5 kids - and class good times as a bbq on the beach, holding a fishing rod sat in a tinny, or the receipt of a (bizarrely motivated) baby bonus/stimulus package from the government. I don't hold anything against these people - but I do think it is healthy to have them as a minority not a majority - overseas travel, a fulfilling career, engaging in arts and literature, speaking other languages are all a significant part of life in my extremely humble opinion.... " Generalising about a whole country based on one type of community clearly doesn't work. As should be self evident, every country has varying demographics depending on town/city/area etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36762 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 OECD stats Tertiary entry rates in peer age groups Australia = 85.7% (2007) UK = 55.4% (2007) Tertiary graduation rates in population at graduation age Australia = 49.8% (2006) UK = 38.7% (2007) blimey what's going on there fishy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36762 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 wheres the mods?:shocked: this thread is going way off topic and the good guys are ganging up against the baddies:cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 blimey what's going on there fishy? Was going to mention that but thought I would leave it for someone else to hang their hat on who wouldn't be impressed by the main point of the post...must admit I had you at the top of the list but to give you credit you were onto it even quicker than I estimated :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36762 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Was going to mention that but thought I would leave it for someone else to hang their hat on who wouldn't be impressed by the main point of the post...must admit I had you at the top of the list but to give you credit you were onto it even quicker than I estimated :wink: no worries mate TBH I CBA'd to read the rest:wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 no worries mateTBH I CBA'd to read the rest:wink: I understand, you had your line, the keyboard was calling you ... :biggrin: oh, and if it is any help, skip to the last line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Threads in here are allowed to go off topic :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36187 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 You reckon........!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36762 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I understand, you had your line, the keyboard was calling you ... :biggrin: oh, and if it is any help, skip to the last line eh?:wacko: btw how'd you earn so many bars? is it coz you is a good guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest32776 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Fish do you have a definition of what 'tertiary' includes in the case of those statistics because i understood 'tertiary' includes secretarial, hairdressing courses etc at Tafe. I was talking about university graduation rates. I spent a year living in Sydney broking coal derivatives at a major bank and although of course the city is far more sophisticated the attitudes of my colleagues were pretty similar to those you find in FNQ it was just that they were wearing suits.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Well it would seem so :wink: You reckon........!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest32776 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 We should all agree to disagree so the thread doesn't get closed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36762 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 We should all agree to disagree so the thread doesn't get closed? mate how many times can you produce the 'lets all agree to disagree' card and still retain credibility:wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest31881 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 This thread has drifted well off course, after discussion by the mods it has been decided to close it. Thanks to all who contributed to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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