9/11, And The 'Impression' It 'May' Have Left.

[Guest guest37336]

Watched several documentaries on the 9/11 massacre last night and it got me thinking. Much of the footage was stuff I had never see, it was taken from ALL angle of New York, and I reckon in the main that the vast majority of Brits had never seen it.

 

People falling/jumping from the tower's, the thuds as they hit the ground, the 'explosion' of their bodies, burns, bits missing from their bodies, there as one fella who's brain exploded because of the heat, it was at time truly gruesome and horrific.

 

With that said I thought about how certain people view Muslims as a whole. If I had seen this first hand 'maybe' my viewpoint would be different. I often say that you cannot judge a whole nation on the actions of one or two individuals, BUT.

 

If I had been witness to this catastrophe would my mindset be different, would I hate all Muslims, I would like to think not, but I don't know in reality.

 

I often sit there and listen to my parents say that there are NO good Germans. We often debate the point, BUT. In reality if I had lived through the second world war as they did would I view the GErmans differently, maybe.

 

WHt I am trying to say is this. If I had lived through 9/11 and seen what was done in the name of religion would I be able to take a step back and realise that NOT all Muslims are bombers, radicals and terrorists. I reckon I could have, BUT, in reality I honestly don't know if I could.

 

I think I have my head screwed on properly and would se the wood for the trees, but when push came to shove could anyone of us ay that we would view the Muslim religion any different.

 

This is NOT excusing certain peoples behaviour towards the Muslims, some will jump on any bandwagon and argue sometimes violently and appallingly at ALL Muslims are so and so.'s. But if I had WITNESSED what happened that day would my mindset be any different today.

 

Much the same as how some of the older generation view the Germans, in reality the German people cannot be blamed for what a tiny minority did, but if you lived and saw what went on at that time would your views be clouded and to some extent polarised by what you lived through.

 

Cheers Tony:wink:

[ali]

My friend who is American and thankfully hadn't travelled into NYC on 9/11 .... but lived with the aftermath doesn't hate muslims, nor judge them all for the acts of a few.

[tonyman]

This may sound silly (but thats just me all over) but do you think they chose 9/11 as in phone 911....?just something ive pondered on over the yrs ...........

[Guest Toorak Trev]

My friend who is American and thankfully hadn't travelled into NYC on 9/11 .... but lived with the aftermath doesn't hate muslims, nor judge them all for the acts of a few.

 

Do people therefore also hate:

Irish = IRA

Spanish = ETA

Italian = Red Brigade

Germany = Nazis

Jewish = the machteret

Columbian = FARC

 

V

 

 

Estate Agents

Parking Wardens:biglaugh:

[Guest Working to fish]

Funny cos i grow up with my nan ,hating the Germans ,she never said Ont about the muslims tho ,just a thought:wideeyed:

[ali]

Do people therefore also hate:

Irish = IRA

Spanish = ETA

Italian = Red Brigade

Germany = Nazis

Jewish = the machteret

Columbian = FARC

 

V

 

 

Estate Agents

Parking Wardens:biglaugh:

 

In general I'd say that most people don't ... which is the point I was making about my friend.

[Guest guest37336]

Do people therefore also hate:

Irish = IRA

Spanish = ETA

Italian = Red Brigade

Germany = Nazis

Jewish = the machteret

Columbian = FARC

 

V

 

 

Estate Agents

Parking Wardens:biglaugh:

 

 

Hi Trev.

 

Yes to all of the above. No matter the arguments put forward some will just plain and simply have certain bias toward toward any religion/country, because of certain experiences, or IMPRESSIONS.

 

And by the way mate, I hate ALL Estate Agents. My ex mother in law was one and what a xxxx, wrong I know, but 'impressions' and all that.:biglaugh:

 

Cheers Tony:wink:

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Hi Tony

 

i was off work that day and saw it all live as it happened and it was a moment in my life that i will never forget, an unreal real life drama involving thousands of everyday people.

 

It started with a news flash saying that they thought 2 light air craft had collided and crashed into one of the towers, which was obviously wrong, it was a passenger plane, but shortly after as they were filming live, the seconf plane came into view and i remember the commentators saying, something like - whats this plane doing, its flying close and OH my god its crashed into the other tower, in such a sureal way, that i was stunned and chilled to the bone. I thought it was a film, a stunt, not real life but it was real life and totally shocking.

 

I saw ALL the angles, i saw the poor people screaming and jumping from the burning buildings, i saw the towers collapsing and the people running for their lives and as i have said it is a moment in history that will live with me forever, BUT.

 

Has this changed the way i think about Asians or Muslims?

 

In general the answer is No, i say this because as with the Nazis in the war, it was a small minority who were evil, same as the terrorists. It is unquantifiable, the amount of Germans who held the Nazis beliefs of wanting to take over the world and eradicate the jewish people and it is also impossible to equate how many muslims hold the same, or similar views as the lunatic terrorists.

 

It always amazes me how normal people deal with personal death and disaster. Some who have lost their loved ones, wether it was in the 9/11 attack, or murdered by some evil monster, react in many differing ways. Some hold hate filled feelings in them forever, in some the feelings wane in the passing of time, BUT............. some forgive these evil monsters, very quickly and i find myself amazed that they can do this, but this is their choice and you have to respect the individual

 

I will say this about the 9/11 terrorist attack, it immediately changed Muslim peoples lives all over the world and not for the better, it has cost hundreds of thousands of them their lives, because of the aftermath of this attack and the terrorists have only really succeeded in turning millions and millions of people against them and their faith, which isn't fair to millions of innocent muslims who are peaceful and law abiding. Yes it bloodied Americas nose and susequently they have lost alot of soldiers in combat and the financial loss is staggering, BUT............. who are the greatest losers in this................. the muslim people.

 

War and terrorism will never work, only discussions leading to peace will resolve these matters in the end.

[Guest guest30038]

 

Much the same as how some of the older generation view the Germans, in reality the German people cannot be blamed for what a tiny minority did, but if you lived and saw what went on .....................:wink:

 

They lived and saw Tony. It was no secret, (not even to the Allies) no matter what they say. Tom paxton sums it up:

 

We didn't know said the Burgomeister,

About the camps on the edge of town.

It was Hitler and his crew,

That tore the German nation down.

We saw the cattle cars it's true,

And maybe they carried a Jew or two.

They woke us up as they rattled through,

But what did you expect me to do?

 

[Cho:]

We didn't know at all,

We didn't see a thing.

You can't hold us to blame,

What could we do?

It was a terrible shame,

But we can't bear the blame.

Oh no, not us, we didn't know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No wonder Israel doesn't care what the world thinks. The world never cared for them.

 

 

 

kev

 

 

[Guest guest37336]

Hi Tony

 

i was off work that day and saw it all live as it happened and it was a moment in my life that i will never forget, an unreal real life drama involving thousands of everyday people.

 

It started with a news flash saying that they thought 2 light air craft had collided and crashed into one of the towers, which was obviously wrong, it was a passenger plane, but shortly after as they were filming live, the seconf plane came into view and i remember the commentators saying, something like - whats this plane doing, its flying close and OH my god its crashed into the other tower, in such a sureal way, that i was stunned and chilled to the bone. I thought it was a film, a stunt, not real life but it was real life and totally shocking.

 

I saw ALL the angles, i saw the poor people screaming and jumping from the burning buildings, i saw the towers collapsing and the people running for their lives and as i have said it is a moment in history that will live with me forever, BUT.

 

Has this changed the way i think about Asians or Muslims?

 

In general the answer is No, i say this because as with the Nazis in the war, it was a small minority who were evil, same as the terrorists. It is unquantifiable, the amount of Germans who held the Nazis beliefs of wanting to take over the world and eradicate the jewish people and it is also impossible to equate how many muslims hold the same, or similar views as the lunatic terrorists.

 

It always amazes me how normal people deal with personal death and disaster. Some who have lost their loved ones, wether it was in the 9/11 attack, or murdered by some evil monster, react in many differing ways. Some hold hate filled feelings in them forever, in some the feelings wane in the passing of time, BUT............. some forgive these evil monsters, very quickly and i find myself amazed that they can do this, but this is their choice and you have to respect the individual

 

I will say this about the 9/11 terrorist attack, it immediately changed Muslim peoples lives all over the world and not for the better, it has cost hundreds of thousands of them their lives, because of the aftermath of this attack and the terrorists have only really succeeded in turning millions and millions of people against them and their faith, which isn't fair to millions of innocent muslims who are peaceful and law abiding. Yes it bloodied Americas nose and susequently they have lost alot of soldiers in combat and the financial loss is staggering, BUT............. who are the greatest losers in this................. the muslim people.

 

War and terrorism will never work, only discussions leading to peace will resolve these matters in the end.

 

Hi Jim.

 

Well said, :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:.

 

The funny thing is this. That my dad who is one of the most sensible and logical people I know, HATES the Germans. Many reason really, but the main two are that his mum and younger sister were blown up by a V2 rocket at Woolworth's in New Cross in the second world war. All they found was his mums wedding finger, WITH ring still intact. And he was one of the first battalions to go into Belson and see the carnage that had been done to the jews.

 

So it is very difficult for me to argue the point that ALL germans are NOT bad. His experiences are so far removed from my own that we will never agree about the Geeerrrmmmaaannnnssssss.:biglaugh:

 

As you say. what happened on 9/11 has made many Muslim lives a nightmare, AND, the only way to go about changing this is communication and in no small measure give those WITHOUT an agenda, on both sides to have their say and hopefully a resolution will come to pass, (though I doubt this will ever happen).

 

Cheers Tony:wink:

[Guest smileykylie]

I was on theKings Cross train that got bombed in london and I certainly don't hate muslims - in fact I was married to one at the time ( who was having visa issues and I was so scared his visa would be turned down due to him being Muslim) who was horrified that anyone would do such a thing in the name of Islam.

 

BUT I do remember getting the bus some days later (too scared to use the tube) and found that i was sitting next to a woman wearing a hijab and I had to get off the bus as my anxiety was quite high, despite my own experience of Islam which, the bombing excluded, has been overwhelmingly positive. I feel embarassed and ashamed now, but I had just survived a terrorist attack and was clearly affected in a way I was not expecting.

 

But I do know some Jewish people (under 30) who find it difficult to befriend germans and look at them wondering if their granfathers or family was part of the atrocities there, even though they were not directly affected.

 

Finally I agree with Jim about Muslim's lives not being the same. My husband was singled out EVERY time we went to the airport (even in Sydney) despite having indefinite leave to remain in the UK and certainly felt that he was discriminated against by some, which was sad as he was lovely and accepting of all people and faiths as was his family. They certainly accpted little old atheist me!!

[Guest guest37336]

Someone will be able to tell me otherwise, but from education etc I think that only TWO Jewish families were NOT affected by what the Nazis did, i.e., direct family, distant family, taken, tortured etc during the second world war, if true that is a truly frightening number.

 

Like Kev says, its no wonder Israel don't give a damn about what the world thinks of them. WE ALL let them down and their mindset is VERY understandable in these modern times.

 

Cheers Tony.:chatterbox:

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Someone will be able to tell me otherwise, but from education etc I think that only TWO Jewish families were NOT affected by what the Nazis did, i.e., direct family, distant family, taken, tortured etc during the second world war, if true that is a truly frightening number.

 

Like Kev says, its no wonder Israel don't give a damn about what the world thinks of them. WE ALL let them down and their mindset is VERY understandable in these modern times.

 

Cheers Tony.:chatterbox:

 

Hi Tony

 

i don't think we - as in the uk and Europe let the jewish people down, if it hadn't been for the sacrifice of millions of our soldiers, the jews would have been eradicated from exhistance. Maybe we could have done more, but things were different in those days.

 

History tells us that world threats come and go, as does local threats. The Nazis in the two wars, the Russians with nuclear weapons, the IRA terrorist attacks, even such things has the fear that was perpetuated by the Yorkshire Ripper put the whole community in fear of their lives. I am not apportioning any severity of one against the other and todays fear and threat is from muslim terrorists. It is strange but i also think regular about this threat, especially when i am in a full restaurant, or at a concert, or football match and think - a bomb going off now would kill so many innocent people and cause absolute carnage, unfortunately its the sign of our times living in the United Kingdom and i stay away from city centres, because to me its only a matter of time before a terrorist attack happens again here in the uk.

[Guest Toorak Trev]

Tony

 

My list was to indicate that sooner or later every culture or ethnic grouping has some form of extremist group.

 

Sadly we could end up with a world full of hatred based on membership to a larger group of which a sub group spoils it for all.

 

I pity the small minded people like the guy trying to organise the burning of the Koran. Much more important things going on to be focusing ones effort.

 

More tolerence and understanding i needed.

[Mongrel]

They lived and saw Tony. It was no secret, (not even to the Allies) no matter what they say. Tom paxton sums it up:

 

We didn't know said the Burgomeister,

About the camps on the edge of town.

It was Hitler and his crew,

That tore the German nation down.

We saw the cattle cars it's true,

And maybe they carried a Jew or two.

They woke us up as they rattled through,

But what did you expect me to do?

 

[Cho:]

We didn't know at all,

We didn't see a thing.

You can't hold us to blame,

What could we do?

It was a terrible shame,

But we can't bear the blame.

Oh no, not us, we didn't know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No wonder Israel doesn't care what the world thinks. The world never cared for them.

 

 

 

kev

 

 

 

Its a good job the israeli plot to blow up parts of London in 48 was foiled would have been messy

[Mongrel]

Religion is a tool for anyone who wants to hide behind decency , the catholic church in wa wants to ban funeral songs pop songs footy songs ,saying they are secular ,but shield paedophile perverts who use their religious allegiance to fulfill their paedophile needs WRONG

[BritChickx]

I was on holiday at the time, remember seeing it on the news and in the foreign newspapers. Security going back through Gatwick was higher than normal as we flew back a few days after.

 

I think everyone will always remember 9/11 and the effects it has had and is still having today. I don't put all Muslims in the same box, I have some very good Muslim friends and none of these events cross my mind when with them!

[moirclan]

we did let the jews down , the govt at the time knew what was happening enough eveidence was through to the govt of the day and they wouldnt allow jews in the country for emigration [ not many any way , ] while they could still get visas to leave ,

they were begged to blow up the ovens in auschvitz on their bombing raids to slow the germans down and they didnt ,

and after the war, uk tried to stop them getting to isreal to join their people by putting them in holding camps for years , it must have felt like out of one concentration camp into another for them

[Guest guest30038]

Its a good job the israeli plot to blow up parts of London in 48 was foiled would have been messy

 

Yes, and let's not forget what the Stern gang did to the Palestinian (Brit) police.

 

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

kev

[Que Sera Sera]

Yes, and let's not forget what the Stern gang did to the Palestinian (Brit) police.

 

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

kev

 

 

That avatar is brilliant it made me chuckle!:biglaugh::biglaugh:

[Que Sera Sera]

Religion is a tool for anyone who wants to hide behind decency , the catholic church in wa wants to ban funeral songs pop songs footy songs ,saying they are secular ,but shield paedophile perverts who use their religious allegiance to fulfill their paedophile needs WRONG

 

 

 

You are so right, doesnt the Catholic church have some concern about Opus or something. I dont know I am not religious and have no feelings on any religion, but to hide behind that religion to kill, abuse, mame and terrorise people can never be right!

[Guest sh7t man no way]

9-11 just reminds me of what a fragile world we live in-where the few can change it for the many with acts of mindless carnage--will we ever learn that the only way is to build,and not destroy--why do these people kill the innocent while the unjust walk free-- my sympathy goes out to all of those affected by 9-11:wubclub:is the world a better place for 9-11--sadly not--when will we ever learn--what a waste:wubclub:

[The Yuills]

I can remember being at work that day and having to show a patient to their room and was in the process of showing them how to use the TV and as I turned the telly on and flicked through the channel..we saw the Sky News commentary and we were all left speechless..I walked back to my office to tell the rest of the girls and they did not believe me..only when they started going to see for themselves could they believe it.

 

Last night I also had the knowledge channel on here and there was a doco on about the last phone calls to loved ones...they actually played those last calls. i actually found it very distressing to listen too and not too sure they should have been played, but that was the relatives decision to let the messages be heard. Other parts yes yousaw people jumping and the thudding..which we all knew happened at the time but through the years have been spared the sounds and sights.

 

I suppose over the few years it has been..people tolerate a more and that is also is true about the tolerance of muslims. They are not all bad and do not all think the same way about the phrases used in the Koran.

 

I would hope I wouldn;t judge someone just because of their colour or religion, but until you stare something like that in the face I am just not sure.

 

RIP all victims from 9/11 and since

[TheOptimist]

I was in New Zealand and was staying at a campsite in the Marlborough Sounds. I walked into the kitchen block where a TV was on, and thought it was a trailor for a new action film. Only after standing there a few minutes or more did I realise that it was real.

 

Seeing those pictures of people choosing to jump out of those windows is still haunting.

 

I think that the Muslim population have suffered a great deal as a result of Al Quaida's actions that day and on 7/7. I am quite an open minded person, however I am ashamed to say that in the weeks and months after the attacks, I was scared of muslims and couldn't help but wonder whether all muslims hated us. Thankfully these thoughts were fleeting.

 

I will never forget that day.

[olly]

Recently my nephew married a Japanese girl. As some of you know there are some sensitivities amongst the older generation of Australians who lived through WW2 regarding the Japanese. One elderly family member refused to attend the wedding, and it was about WW2 memories where the family member had friends in the Pow camps. We said to him that you cannot hold the people of today responsible for the actions of their forefathers, but he would not go to that wedding. Old memories die hard.