INDIAN students are shunning Australia

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Our governments policies must really be working then! Why don't you go back to India to study?

 

Hi Paul

 

I noticed that you have not asked Indaussie how much money he has spent in Australia whilst he has been studying there. Why have you not asked about this, please?

 

The foreign income from people like Indaussie has been worth $17 billion a year to Australia at the last count. The International Students pay enormous tuition fees - far higher than a domestic student has to pay for the same thing. It has been the second or third largest source of export income for Australia, apparently.

 

It is well known that encouraging International Students means that Governments are able to spend less money on educating their own students at home. Consequently, the UK (where I live) Canada and the USA are all licking their lips. Since Australia has kissed goodbye to the foreign income, the three other countries are perfectly willing to share it between us instead.

 

Similarly, when the Aussie Unis and colleges of further education either close down or decrease in size - which they will be forced to do - Aussie Citizens and Permanent Residents who work for these colleges/unis will be made redundant. The predictions are that several thousands of these workers will be made redundant in Melbourne alone.

 

These "reforms" by the Minister for Immi - who is not responsible for the economic effects that his "reforms" will undoubtedly cause elsewhere in 'Australia's balance sheet' - seems to be determined to put the Aussie economy at risk, especially in VIC, it seems to me.

 

If I were the average Aussie, I'd be looking at the balance sheet rather than at the International Students, since there won't be many (if any) International Students to look at in years to come, but the gaping hole in the balance sheet will be more than readily apparent.

 

Australia's economic loss is the UK's gain, frankly. We need the up-front, easy money that more or less earns itself for us, without the UK having to do anything much in return. We also need to create additional jobs. Attracting the prospective International Students whom the Aussie Minister has decided that Australia doesn't want is very good news for the UK and for our two competitors on the other side of the Atlantic.

 

I strongly suspect that John Howard and Co were never interested in whether or not Australia provided genuine value for money in return for grabbing the shekels of foreign income and creating jobs for Australians. I don't think Birrell understands the economic risks that the Labor Government is determined to take, period. Birrell is a demographer, not an economist, after all.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest true blue sue]

Hi Paul

 

I noticed that you have not asked Indaussie how much money he has spent in Australia whilst he has been studying there. Why have you not asked about this, please?

 

The foreign income from people like Indaussie has been worth $17 billion a year to Australia at the last count. The International Students pay enormous tuition fees - far higher than a domestic student has to pay for the same thing. It has been the second or third largest source of export income for Australia, apparently.

 

It is well known that encouraging International Students means that Governments are able to spend less money on educating their own students at home. Consequently, the UK (where I live) Canada and the USA are all licking their lips. Since Australia has kissed goodbye to the foreign income, the three other countries are perfectly willing to share it between us instead.

 

Similarly, when the Aussie Unis and colleges of further education either close down or decrease in size - which they will be forced to do - Aussie Citizens and Permanent Residents who work for these colleges/unis will be made redundant. The predictions are that several thousands of these workers will be made redundant in Melbourne alone.

 

These "reforms" by the Minister for Immi - who is not responsible for the economic effects that his "reforms" will undoubtedly cause elsewhere in 'Australia's balance sheet' - seems to be determined to put the Aussie economy at risk, especially in VIC, it seems to me.

 

If I were the average Aussie, I'd be looking at the balance sheet rather than at the International Students, since there won't be many (if any) International Students to look at in years to come, but the gaping hole in the balance sheet will be more than readily apparent.

 

Australia's economic loss is the UK's gain, frankly. We need the up-front, easy money that more or less earns itself for us, without the UK having to do anything much in return. We also need to create additional jobs. Attracting the prospective International Students whom the Aussie Minister has decided that Australia doesn't want is very good news for the UK and for our two competitors on the other side of the Atlantic.

 

I strongly suspect that John Howard and Co were never interested in whether or not Australia provided genuine value for money in return for grabbing the shekels of foreign income and creating jobs for Australians. I don't think Birrell understands the economic risks that the Labor Government is determined to take, period. Birrell is a demographer, not an economist, after all.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

The $17m from international students is from all students coming to study in Australia, not just those studying at dodgy visa factories. Australia will always attract international students because our universities do have a good reputation overseas and it is an attractive, safe country to come to. In part the students of these colleges bear some responsibility for the mess that has resulted in PR driven education. They had no intention in working in their chosen field of study after graduating, and if initially Australia was looking for more cooks and hairdressers, then there was a degree of misrepresentation going on there, with students enrolling in great numbers simply to be eligible for PR at the end of the course.

 

Suspicion of those enrolled at the colleges had got to the point that the Oz government was forced to act. The fact that so many of the colleges have closed their doors suggests that education was not their primary aim. Unfortunately a lot of the colleges were run by Indians and Chinese migrants, taking advantage of their fellow countrymen. I for one am glad that the govt has cracked down and made it much harder for students to remain here with dodgy credentials and slim chances of getting worthwhile work.

[Guest Jane1991]

The $17m from international students is from all students coming to study in Australia, not just those studying at dodgy visa factories. Australia will always attract international students because our universities do have a good reputation overseas and it is an attractive, safe country to come to.

 

I think you underestimate the damage. Australian reputation has been decimated and OZ degrees are so yesterday.

No foreign employer will dare touch Australian educated graduates with a ten foot pole now.

And I say this despite being an honours student at a premier Aussie university.

 

While shelling out 50k per year for Georgetown ... or NYU and Columbia might not be as appealing ... shelling out the same 25k for U Toronto or UBC or even LSE seems like the way to go ...

 

Without PR ... students will go for quality education not OZ

[Purple Princess]

I think you underestimate the damage. Australian reputation has been decimated and OZ degrees are so yesterday.

No foreign employer will dare touch Australian educated graduates with a ten foot pole now.

And I say this despite being an honours student at a premier Aussie university.

 

 

I really do hope that my degree will not be worthless, after spending 3 years of my life and in excess of $300K......

 

Will Aussie employers feel the same about a degree from one of their own Uni's?

 

Steph

xxxx

[Guest true blue sue]

I think you underestimate the damage. Australian reputation has been decimated and OZ degrees are so yesterday.

No foreign employer will dare touch Australian educated graduates with a ten foot pole now.

And I say this despite being an honours student at a premier Aussie university.

My OH works in recruiting and the firms he recruits for won't touch Indian graduates with the proverbial 10ft pole because their degrees are degraded and their English skills are poor.

 

I've not heard of Australian graduates not being able to get good jobs in Australia or even OS. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on the part of some.

[Purple Princess]

My OH works in recruiting and the firms he recruits for won't touch Indian graduates with the proverbial 10ft pole because their degrees are degraded and their English skills are poor.

 

I've not heard of Australian graduates not being able to get good jobs in Australia or even OS. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on the part of some.

 

 

What about a Brit?? I'm a fully qualified Financial Investment Adviser with over 21 years experience, now doing a Bachelor of Commerce at an Australian Uni.

 

Do you think I will be employable??

 

Steph

xxxx

[Ozzieland]

My OH works in recruiting and the firms he recruits for won't touch Indian graduates with the proverbial 10ft pole because their degrees are degraded and their English skills are poor.

 

I've not heard of Australian graduates not being able to get good jobs in Australia or even OS. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on the part of some.

 

That is being unfair and judging everyone with the same yardstick. I am Indian and if, just because I am Indian, I am considered unemployable, I think that is being racial.

[Guest Jane1991]

My OH works in recruiting and the firms he recruits for won't touch Indian graduates with the proverbial 10ft pole because their degrees are degraded and their English skills are poor.

 

I've not heard of Australian graduates not being able to get good jobs in Australia or even OS. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on the part of some.

 

Well now you have heard all about it !

[Guest]

Believe me I know how hard the immigration process is having emigrated from the UK myself. The points system is daunting and it costs a fortune to apply. Paying out for the process guarantees nothing, you could fail at the last hurdle having already shelled out a lot of money. My Sister and family applied after they came out on Holiday. My Sisters husband is in the police, they spent a lot of money going for interviews, medicals and eventually got a letter to go to the London embassy for a presentation.

 

Thinking they had been accepted they were very excited only to be told that 50 applicants had been accepted and the other 50 that were there put into a "pool", They were one of the families in the pool and have never heard anything since. That was about 6 years ago. There were over 1000 applicants for the 50 or so jobs on offer so there would have been a lot of dissappointed people.

 

Unfortunately, that's life. Even when we emigrated 20 years ago there was a queue at the embassy for the forms to fill in for emigration. A good 70% of people knew there and then that they would be wasting their money even trying to apply as there was a little form to check out your points score first and they made it very clear that if you didn't make 90 points (or whatever the tally was) you would be wasting your money.

 

I sense an undertone of something racial suggested in this thread and would just like to point out that it's hard to get into Aus. from anywhere, just as it should be.

 

I understand there are hoops to jump through to get into Australia, just as there are for any country. I had to jump through hoops to move to the USA a couple of years ago to be with my husband. The big difference between the Australian process and the US process was the clarity and transparency of the information. Maybe it should be hard to get into Australia, as you say, although I don't know why it has to be "hard", there should be rules but it should also be fair. Information should be public and up front so that, even if it is hard, people know exactly what they are getting themselves into at the outset. Decisions should be transparent, not cloaked in secrecy and legal mumbo jumbo, and rules should not be changed halfway through the application process. Information should be absolutely clear - not confusing and all over the place.

 

I don't really sense a racial undertone at all in this thread - I can very easily see how anyone would become angry and resentful after having jumped through hoop after hoop and forked out your family's life savings, to then be told it was all for nothing. I think you would see things very differently if you'd been refused your visa - it's very easy to say "that's life" while sitting pretty.

 

I can understand people's anger - I myself am angry at Australia for the treatment both my husband and I have received. Why should I be forced to choose between my country of birth and my husband? The UK would not treat us like that, the US would not, nor Canada - why is it OK for Australia? All along we were led to believe there would be a waiver available to us but I had to do a lot of research to discover that the waiver is only exercised around 10% of the time. And that is the problem - the information provided by DIAC is very misleading and evasive. Needlessly so. We're in a much better position than a lot of people in other visa categories, too - at least we have a right of appeal. So I really think, at the very least, people have a right to be angry!

 

Honestly, I no longer see Australia the same way as I used to, as the country of a "fair go" - it seems like many other countries give people a much fairer go.

 

(Also I think the Australian media and government carry on a bit - having lived in the USA, with 11,000,000 illegal immigrants, it's laughable what Australia thinks of as an illegal immigration crisis.)

[Guest Jane1991]

I really do hope that my degree will not be worthless, after spending 3 years of my life and in excess of $300K......

 

Will Aussie employers feel the same about a degree from one of their own Uni's?

 

Steph

xxxx

 

You would qualify as a mature age graduate and I hope you don't face the issues that come with such a status.

 

As true blue sue has pointed out ... recruiters can be racist ... well why not ageist ?

[Guest true blue sue]

What about a Brit?? I'm a fully qualified Financial Investment Adviser with over 21 years experience, now doing a Bachelor of Commerce at an Australian Uni.

 

Do you think I will be employable??

 

Steph

xxxx

 

I don't see why you won't have the whole world at your feet once you graduate. No probs!

[Purple Princess]

You would qualify as a mature age graduate and I hope you don't face the issues that come with such a status.

 

As true blue sue has pointed out ... recruiters can be racist ... well why not ageist ?

 

 

I like the word 'mature', my daughter says I'm just old and an embarrassment to her going to 'school' at my age!!!!!:biglaugh:

 

I applied for a para planner job since we've been here, also 2 bank teller jobs only to be told that my CV is very impressive, however, I'm too over qualified!!! Perhaps it is an age issue :idea:

 

Steph

xxxx

[Guest Jane1991]

My OH works in recruiting and the firms he recruits for won't touch Indian graduates with the proverbial 10ft pole because their degrees are degraded and their English skills are poor.

 

I've not heard of Australian graduates not being able to get good jobs in Australia or even OS. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on the part of some.

 

You are right Sue.

If your OH being Australian thinks that Australian graduates (ethnic) are not good enough despite the fact that they have the same degree then why would a foreign bank even bother with looking at the CV of Australian educated grads.

[Guest Anya]

My OH works in recruiting and the firms he recruits for won't touch Indian graduates with the proverbial 10ft pole because their degrees are degraded and their English skills are poor.

 

I've not heard of Australian graduates not being able to get good jobs in Australia or even OS. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on the part of some.

 

There are bad apples in every country, but to write off all Indian graduates is sheer stupidity, combined with ignorance and arrogance. Their loss.

 

Too bad Australia, the brightest and the best will never come here in large numbers as long as firms practise such discrimination. The US, UK, Europe will continue to be their first choice destination to study and work.

 

Thank God that I worked for multinational banks that valued/rated my Indian degrees very highly.

 

A bigger thank you God because now that I am in Australia, I don't need to work and put up with such backward firms that write off all Indian graduates as having 'degraded degrees'.

[Guest true blue sue]

There are bad apples in every country, but to write off all Indian graduates is sheer stupidity, combined with ignorance and arrogance. Their loss.

 

Too bad Australia, the brightest and the best will never come here in large numbers as long as firms practise such discrimination. The US, UK, Europe will continue to be their first choice destination to study and work.

 

Thank God that I worked for multinational banks that valued/rated my Indian degrees very highly.

 

A bigger thank you God because now that I am in Australia, I don't need to work and put up with such backward firms that write off all Indian graduates as having 'degraded degrees'.

 

All applicants to the positions are assessed on the same basis. Unfortunately for the most part Indian graduates lose out because of poor language skills and degrees that are not from recognised tertiary educational institutions.

 

You can't really blame employers for wanting to employ the best that they can. I am speaking generally, I am sure that there are superb Indian graduates that will bring skill and knowledge to any job they pursue, but not in a lot of cases because of the numbers of Indian graduates from dodgy visa colleges whose degrees are not really worth a whole lot. Those with IT degrees are in high demand, those who did a cooking or hairdressing course and are hoping to translate that degree into a job in another I suspect are finding it hard to get a foot in the door.

[Guest Anya]

All applicants to the positions are assessed on the same basis. Unfortunately for the most part Indian graduates lose out because of poor language skills and degrees that are not from recognised tertiary educational institutions.

 

You can't really blame employers for wanting to employ the best that they can. I am speaking generally, I am sure that there are superb Indian graduates that will bring skill and knowledge to any job they pursue, but not in a lot of cases because of the numbers of Indian graduates from dodgy visa colleges whose degrees are not really worth a whole lot. Those with IT degrees are in high demand, those who did a cooking or hairdressing course and are hoping to translate that degree into a job in another I suspect are finding it hard to get a foot in the door.

 

What you're saying now is quite different from your earlier post. I'd understand firms not wanting to hire individuals with degrees from 'dodgy' colleges.

 

But what about non-Aussie graduates from, say, Melbourne Uni or Monash? If students with poor English skills have indeed graduated from Melbourne Uni/Monash (which I strongly suspect has been the case) and are still unemployable then there really is very little difference between these institutions and the dodgy one shutter visa colleges (?)

 

The University simply enrolled these students with poor academic skill sets as they paid the much needed and much higher international fees.

 

Reputation tarnished? Most definitely.

 

PS: I don't see any Indian firms lining up to hire Aussie Uni graduates either...lol

[User Name]

Latest news from Herald Sun .. here is the link

 

 

Indian students shun Australia | The Daily Telegraph

 

 

thats good guys Australia doesnt deserve hard working resident like you. austrlia need only lazzy resident who are burden on austrlian people like Assyllum seekers, and highly qualified people who dont want to work.

 

So your point is Indian migrants are much better than the supposedly *lazy* non-Indian migrants and asylum seekers?

 

Good thinking, keep it up.

[Guest true blue sue]

What you're saying now is quite different from your earlier post. I'd understand firms not wanting to hire individuals with degrees from 'dodgy' colleges.

 

But what about non-Aussie graduates from, say, Melbourne Uni or Monash? If students with poor English skills have indeed graduated from Melbourne Uni/Monash (which I strongly suspect has been the case) and are still unemployable then there really is very little difference between these institutions and the dodgy one shutter visa colleges (?)

 

The University simply enrolled these students with poor academic skill sets as they paid the much needed and much higher international fees.

 

Reputation tarnished? Most definitely.

 

PS: I don't see any Indian firms lining up to hire Aussie Uni graduates either...lol

 

The difference I guess is that if they go back to India they have a degree which will hopefully carry them forward into a good job. That should be the aim of international students studying in Australia, not just to gain PR.

 

But OMG I think we might even agree on some things. How did that happen? Just kidding. All the best

 

Sue

[Guest jigish]

PS: I don't see any Indian firms lining up to hire Aussie Uni graduates either...lol

What are you saying? I am planning to leave this hellhole ASAP, once I get my application fees from capping. And you are saying I can't get job back home with Australian degree?!? I was dreaming about, applying in infosys, BTW. LOL. Are you saying this from your personal experience or this is just an assumption?

[Si T]

That is being unfair and judging everyone with the same yardstick. I am Indian and if, just because I am Indian, I am considered unemployable, I think that is being racial.

 

Its too easy for the race card to become the dominant factor in discussions such as these. The problem lies with the general representation that students from a number of Asian countries have attended back street colleges to study degrees they have no intention of using in their careers just so they can get PR.

 

Personally if I had to grow up in a country where poverty was rife and the difference between the rich and poor was massive and it was the only way to make a better life for me and my family I am damned sure i would have done exactly the same thing. Driving a taxi in Melbourne has got to be better than the ship breaking yards of Bangladesh.

 

The problem which has arisen is that all students from these parts have now been unfairly tarred with the same brush. The problem isn't that the change in policy has arisen its that there have been no transitional plans of any substance put in place.

 

Take accountants for example. How difficult would it be that instead of completely removing the path to PR to change it so that to be granted they would have to go further and qualify with one of the professional institutes and also develop their language skills to a point where they can achieve the four 7's required for IELTS.

 

If PR is granted at the end of the course but with the above provision to be met within 5 (for example with checkpoints such as exam sittings etc) years or it is revoked then the current students have a path to take to achieve their aims. The students who have no intention of following their careers in line with their qualification will fall by the wayside.

 

While I fully understand the frustration of those students currently onshore there has to be a stop to the "visa factories". The major mistake they have made is cutting the rug from under the CURRENT students.

 

Good luck and I hope they start to see sense soon.

 

Si

[Guest indaussie]

So your point is Indian migrants are much better than the supposedly *lazy* non-Indian migrants and asylum seekers?

I am not comparing migrants from Different countries . My point is that indian migrating are hard working and they are needed in australia as they are ready to do any job that australians are not ready to do like taxi driving

[Ozzieland]

The difference I guess is that if they go back to India they have a degree which will hopefully carry them forward into a good job. That should be the aim of international students studying in Australia, not just to gain PR.

 

But OMG I think we might even agree on some things. How did that happen? Just kidding. All the best

 

Sue

 

I agree with you that the aim of studying in Australia should not be to get PR. However, if that is what the Aussie Government propagated in the first place, I don't see it wrong. Many Indians go all over the world to study and then return home. They do not expect PR from these countries because it was never promised. This case however differs with Australia simply because it was the Australian Government who lured students to coming to Australia by offering them PR. Having done this, if the Australian Government was strict enough to have curbed the so called 'dodgy colleges', I don't think there would have been such a big issue today. Unfortunately, many of those dodgy colleges still exist and although complaints have been filed against them, no action has been taken.

[Guest jigish]

I am not comparing migrants from Different countries . My point is that indian migrating are hard working and they are needed in australia as they are ready to do any job that australians are not ready to do like taxi driving

Please remove your comment, that is too much generalization. There are bad apples in every group. I am Indian and not all Indians are hard working.

[Ozzieland]

Please remove your comment, that is too much generalization. There are bad apples in every group. I am Indian and not all Indians are hard working.

 

I second that Jiggish, We should never generalize on any topic.

[Guest Anya]

There are bad apples in every group. I am Indian and not all Indians are hard working.

 

True, look at me...lol