Visa Capping - Senate Inquiry

[Guest luyaoqin]

I lodged my application (CSL Accountant) in March, 2010. Will this affect my application please? If it does, I will send my opinion straightaway.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

I lodged my application (CSL Accountant) in March, 2010. Will this affect my application please? If it does, I will send my opinion straightaway.

 

 

Hi there

 

Yes. I am not saying that it will affect you but it definitely might affect you, certainly.

 

Please make a submission to the Inquiry and tell them what you think. A simple letter addressed to the Inquiry Committee will do - being Aussies, they are not fussy about strict formality in the procedures with these Inquiries.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest pippa1]

Hi Gill

 

Have just sent my submission off, not that I think it will do any good!

Managed to vent my frustration through hammering the keyboard though....

 

Lets see what Monday brings eh? can it get any worse?

[Guest tenabndz]

An ex post facto law

 

An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from after the action") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions committed or relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law. In reference to criminal law, it may criminalize actions that were legal when committed; or it may aggravate a crime by bringing it into a more severe category than it was in at the time it was committed; or it may change or increase the punishment prescribed for a crime, such as by adding new penalties or extending terms; or it may alter the rules of evidence in order to make conviction for a crime more likely than it would have been at the time of the action for which a defendant is prosecuted. Conversely, a form of ex post facto law commonly known as an amnesty law may decriminalize certain acts or alleviate possible punishments (for example by replacing the death sentence with life-long imprisonment) retroactively.

 

A law may have an ex post facto effect without being technically ex post facto. For example, when a law repeals a previous law, the repealed legislation no longer applies to the situations it once did, even if such situations arose before the law was repealed. The principle of prohibiting the continued application of these kinds of laws is also known as Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali, particularly in European continental systems.

 

Generally speaking, ex post facto penal laws are seen as a violation of the rule of law as it applies in a free and democratic society. Most common law jurisdictions do not permit retroactive criminal legislation, though new precedent generally applies to events that occurred prior to the judicial decision. Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution. In some nations that follow the Westminster system of government, such as the United Kingdom, ex post facto laws are technically possible as the doctrine of parliamentary supremacy allows Parliament to pass any law it wishes. However, in a nation with an entrenched bill of rights or a written constitution, ex post facto legislation may be prohibited.

 

Ref: Ex post facto law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Guest brownfamily]

Gill

 

Please can you mention those of us on bridging visa's in oz ...we have invested time, money and effort into Australia (oh and paid tax for 3 years!). We have children in school who's lives are also going to be thrown into turmoil.

 

FWIW I did not study cookery or hairdressing and have a job in my nominated occupation..

 

Hi Gill,

 

Firstly, thank you for taking up the gauntlet and replying on behalf of us all, it is very much appreciated.

 

Secondly, I would agree with the above post and ask you to mention all of us PIO members that are on a bridging visa's, but maybe also the following please:

 

 

• We have been in Australia (initially in a student visa) for three years now. Paid International School fee's for 2 children. Children have integrated well into Oz life and culture and yet their future stay in Australia is as yet unknown (PR applied for in Dec 09).

• We have paid tax for three years (both parents and one teenager - part time and full time).

• We have supported the Oz economy (bought house etc etc).

• We get no benefits/allowances from either England or Oz due to temporary visa status and the fact that we really are in 'no mans land'.

• Had to go onto a Graduate Visa due to 1 year work experience (as rules changed whilst we were in Oz)., which was not accounted for or expected.

• Had to have 3 lots of medicals/police checks/x-rays/blood tests due to different visa's and will probably have to have another lot due to meds etc expiring before PR gets looked at by CO, but needed to frontload them due to being 'onshore'. Does the Immi Minister know what it's like to keep telling your 15 year old daughter 'another blood test again'....sorry but we don't have a choice.

• My OH is still working in his nominated occupation and yet we are still waiting for PR, even though we were briefly on CSL, are on new SOL, but still have been told not to expect PR until at least 2012.

• If either of my kids want to go to Uni, we will have to pay International Fees for them as we may still be on a temp visa.

Yes, when we left England we did expect to pay for fees etc for two years, but the rules keep changing all the time - not just to new applicants - but for existing applicants - which is what I find unfair.

 

Can I please just also say that I am getting really fed up with all of the 'negativity' surrounding the student visa route - not all of them attended dodgy colleges with dodgy paperwork - and I don't think that we should all be tarred with the same brush - and as for the poor hairdressers and cooks - I really feel for them.

 

I think thats it from us :err:

 

Thanks

 

Heather

[Guest theweirs]

Hi Gill,

 

Firstly, thank you for taking up the gauntlet and replying on behalf of us all, it is very much appreciated.

 

Secondly, I would agree with the above post and ask you to mention all of us PIO members that are on a bridging visa's, but maybe also the following please:

 

 

• We have been in Australia (initially in a student visa) for three years now. Paid International School fee's for 2 children. Children have integrated well into Oz life and culture and yet their future stay in Australia is as yet unknown (PR applied for in Dec 09).

• We have paid tax for three years (both parents and one teenager - part time and full time).

• We have supported the Oz economy (bought house etc etc).

• We get no benefits/allowances from either England or Oz due to temporary visa status and the fact that we really are in 'no mans land'.

• Had to go onto a Graduate Visa due to 1 year work experience (as rules changed whilst we were in Oz)., which was not accounted for or expected.

• Had to have 3 lots of medicals/police checks/x-rays/blood tests due to different visa's and will probably have to have another lot due to meds etc expiring before PR gets looked at by CO, but needed to frontload them due to being 'onshore'. Does the Immi Minister know what it's like to keep telling your 15 year old daughter 'another blood test again'....sorry but we don't have a choice.

• My OH is still working in his nominated occupation and yet we are still waiting for PR, even though we were briefly on CSL, are on new SOL, but still have been told not to expect PR until at least 2012.

• If either of my kids want to go to Uni, we will have to pay International Fees for them as we may still be on a temp visa.

Yes, when we left England we did expect to pay for fees etc for two years, but the rules keep changing all the time - not just to new applicants - but for existing applicants - which is what I find unfair.

 

Can I please just also say that I am getting really fed up with all of the 'negativity' surrounding the student visa route - not all of them attended dodgy colleges with dodgy paperwork - and I don't think that we should all be tarred with the same brush - and as for the poor hairdressers and cooks - I really feel for them.

 

I think thats it from us :err:

 

Thanks

 

Heather

 

 

Couldn't have put it any better myself Heather, we are in exactly the same position as you. We have been here three years, paid tax, bought a house, paid and are still paying school fees. My OH is still in his occupation and yes he studied as a cook.

 

Cooks and hairdressers are being made out to be the villains in all of this but not all of us rorted the system. They may make up 17,000 visa applications but surely the majority of these are genuine applications and even if they were capped and ceased what about the other 100,000+ applications that are in the system, so really is any occupation safe.

 

We know lots of people in trades that have never been employed in their occupation from the day they arrived in Oz. If this is what they are trying to stop then they should introduce a system where you have to prove you are working in your chosen occupation. This would make sure that the skills shortage would be addressed and people are just not using their occupation as a ticket into Oz with no intention of doing it when they arrive.

 

Thank you also to Gill who is dedicating more time to help all PIO members :notworthy:

 

Jo x

[ranjith47]

I lodged my application (CSL Accountant) in March, 2010. Will this affect my application please? If it does, I will send my opinion straightaway.

 

Hey.

Firstly, I have only been reading posts in Pomsinoz from the day I started searching for news about the new SOL List.

Now, the new SOL List has arrived and I am an accounting student finishing studies this year end. I thought I was now safe since Accountants are in the new SOL list.

But here we go, another problems pops up.!!

And I have been reading comments from many users and I can feel the stress and pain in them, but I really think things arent supposed to be complicated so much by the Governments. I dont know whether this is political tactics to influence election decisions or whatever,,, But they should really not spoil the happiness of people who might be affected currently in the migration system but welll for those who have been in the system for more than 2-3 years might be capped and ceased because, well, I am sure they would have lost hope for migrating to Australia after having waited so long, which cud be probbly true..

 

And as a normal being with typical human emotions and characteristics, I would say they should not affect the students already studying in Australia. This Cap and Cease May affect students applying in the year end or during the Financial year end as there must have already been a huge application already made (eg: the Accountants quota all filled up) and so those students again would feel cheated and well, all the money spent to get the advantage of good education and getting a Permanent Residence and improve living prospects would be shattered.

There could be many other ppl who are already in the process who have various other issues and aims.

But, All I am trying to convey is that Why not the Govt leave all the previous applications and possibly affecting clients (eg: Students (Since I am one)) and start capping and ceasing and affecting applicants applying after 2010 (2012 for students who have already started studying here) where it affects only the ppl Only in the planning stages of migrating to Australia. This would save all distress , confusion and negativities for all people related to this problem.

 

:cool:Finally I want all you readers to keep your cool and not worry too much abt anything which might happen bcuz we really dont achieve any good on worrying abt things we dont have control on.

Think abt the good times and Imagine and live in your mind, where you want to be and what you want to do , and you are sure to achieve them sooner than you think - a lil bit of subconscious wisdom i thought i'd put through.

Cheers ppl.

:policeman:

[Guest luyaoqin]

I sent my letter already with anger and frustration...

[Guest pippa1]

Hi all

 

I am in exactly the same sitiuation as the Browns and Weirs and agree with everything they say. I agree that there should be some mechanism in place to recognise those who are working in the nominated occupation.

I feel really sorry for the genuine cooks and hairdressers who are caught up in this mess . I am fed up of almost apologising for being an onshore graduate.

I have submitted my submission and strongly urge you all to (if you haven't already!), we must try to be heard.

 

Thanks Gill for everything x

[Guest proud2beaussie]

I live here in OZ and i see how the different sets of people are and if they want to have a laxed attitude towards the "boat people" then by all means go ahead...will see how far the country progresses by turning alot of us skilled immigrants 'to-be'. As they seem to give them priority over us.

Guys and Gals,

I understand everyones frustration at these changes but can I please implore everyone not to go down the track of turning this into a "boat people vs skilled migrants" thread.

I believe it is a seperate issue,there is plenty of room in Australia for both skilled migrants and refugees (who by the way should not be assumed to be unskilled-my dentist was a refugee from Vietnam who arrived in a boat).

There is plenty of room for everyone,the only way that people affected by the proposed cap and case policy will achieve any justice is by lobbying government so I suggest concentrating on that rather than letting yourself get side tracked with other matters.

[Guest Jane1991]

Does this country want an immigrant community that would be give back to society (taxes, expenditure, values, peace) or does it want another sort of community that lives off social benefits, poor employment/lanuage skills and the village mentality? sorry for being so blunt but thats how i see things.

 

I live here in OZ and i see how the different sets of people are and if they want to have a laxed attitude towards the "boat people" then by all means go ahead...

 

:swoon:

 

Can we please lay off the "boatpeople" They are a minuscule percentage of total migration

 

These asylum seekers come seeking refuge and apply under the international obligations of Australia. Its not the only country in the world that takes in refugees ... India US UK EU

 

Secondly, while we may have the luxury of sitting in our homes with family to whine about unfairness of having lost a few thousand dollars in fees and tax .... most of these asylum seekers have lost family and home ... and all they had ... lets not deprive them of humanity and dignity.

 

Yes they deserve to be resettled far ahead of skilled independent migrants because they do not have options. And I would rather live next to someone who doesn't speak English well or understand much of my culture than be neighbors to a person who can turn his or her back on desperate people.

 

Hope over constant fear of death ... thats what these people choose. And sail over oceans in rickety boats in hope of gaining what they have lost.

[virtual_bajwa]

Hey.

Firstly, I have only been reading posts in Pomsinoz from the day I started searching for news about the new SOL List.

Now, the new SOL List has arrived and I am an accounting student finishing studies this year end. I thought I was now safe since Accountants are in the new SOL list.

But here we go, another problems pops up.!!

And I have been reading comments from many users and I can feel the stress and pain in them, but I really think things arent supposed to be complicated so much by the Governments. I dont know whether this is political tactics to influence election decisions or whatever,,, But they should really not spoil the happiness of people who might be affected currently in the migration system but welll for those who have been in the system for more than 2-3 years might be capped and ceased because, well, I am sure they would have lost hope for migrating to Australia after having waited so long, which cud be probbly true..

 

And as a normal being with typical human emotions and characteristics, I would say they should not affect the students already studying in Australia. This Cap and Cease May affect students applying in the year end or during the Financial year end as there must have already been a huge application already made (eg: the Accountants quota all filled up) and so those students again would feel cheated and well, all the money spent to get the advantage of good education and getting a Permanent Residence and improve living prospects would be shattered.

There could be many other ppl who are already in the process who have various other issues and aims.

But, All I am trying to convey is that Why not the Govt leave all the previous applications and possibly affecting clients (eg: Students (Since I am one)) and start capping and ceasing and affecting applicants applying after 2010 (2012 for students who have already started studying here) where it affects only the ppl Only in the planning stages of migrating to Australia. This would save all distress , confusion and negativities for all people related to this problem.

 

:cool:Finally I want all you readers to keep your cool and not worry too much abt anything which might happen bcuz we really dont achieve any good on worrying abt things we dont have control on.

Think abt the good times and Imagine and live in your mind, where you want to be and what you want to do , and you are sure to achieve them sooner than you think - a lil bit of subconscious wisdom i thought i'd put through.

Cheers ppl.

:policeman:

Welcome to the forum Ranjith,

Well I read your post here. We are effected by this Cap and Cease. But now it has been habit for us. DIAC is unpredictable right from the first day of my application. But dear I am happy with one thing that some news has been flashed on cap and Cease. And most probably we will come to know some thing on Cap and Cease by 15 June...And that could end the 3 years of painful journey.

[yc1ten]

Hi Gill,

 

Thanks for all the help that you do. I am new to the forum but I have been reading the posting before.

 

 

 

• Initially on student visa when we first arrived in January 2007
  
• To those who does not like cook.....well I am and have been working as a cook casually (20 hours a week) when I was on student visa. Now working full-time yet as a cook since I lodged my application.
  
• Lodged my application for 886 (Sponsored by my brother in law) back in may 11, 2009. He is working with one of the big banks in Melbourne.
  
• Now is our fourth year in Australia, on Bridging Visa, Also paid Int school fee for my 2 children (Grade 5 and Year 8)
  
• Paid tax since the first time I worked at the restaurant, bought ourselves PRIVATE MEDICAL COVER (we are eligible for Medicare) because we are trying to do a bit as a community, that is do not want to put pressure on the public hospital in case we have to go to the hospital
  
• Both children have integrated well into OZ life and culture (the youngest one can't even read and write in her native language)
  
• My husband has just sold his business back home recently...:mad:
  
• Anyway my husband was educated here, came here in 1987 and went back home in 1992 (High School and Univ) but the law at that time was he has to leave after he finished her degree.
  
• Granted Spore PR in 2005 and stayed there until end of 2006 and then we moved here in Jan 2007.
  
• Will loose our Spore PR by 14 July 2010 because one of the requirement is myself and my two children must have been in Spore for at least 3 yrs before re-entry permit can be renewed
  

 

I totally agree with Heather that I did also expect to pay fees for our children but the minister keep changing the rules as he changes his socks.......:arghh:

Heather....i also feel the same way with you (I am really feed up) for those people with the negativity surrounding the student visa route. I did not attend dodgy college (I believe many also did not)........for those people: THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK.......:huh:

 

Cheers,

[Guest linxinkai]

HI, Thx for what you doing

 

 

 

• we have been living in australia from 2006 till now (885GSM PR applied for in Dec 08).
• We have paid tax for four years (both of us have 20hours+/week jobs). Meanwhile We get no benefits from either China or Australia due to bridging visa.
  
• We have been supporting the Oz economy (tax, tuition, we also transferred 200k+ Australian dollar to Australia Commonwealth Bank. We plan to buy a house and really want to have baby, but it is just a dream without PR, we will be forced to sell house and leave within28 days if our application ceased).
  
• We be told that our application will not be processed until the end of 2011 since changes in immigration policy during 09-10 after our lodgement (12/2008) but we still had hope that Australia will not abandon us. However we are shocked by migration amendment (visa capping) bill 2010 which released this week, that means we will be axed if vias capped, all money and time we spent will be meaningless, My wife can’t focus on work anymore and cry every night.
  
• We gave up our job in our country and spent best years of our lives (we were 23years-old at 2006) in Australia and separated from our family oversea for really long time.(we are the only kids for our parents, but we only went back and visited them once after we reached Australia since 2006, because as long as we are not onshore, our application will not move in waiting list.
  

 

Cheers

 

Kevin Lin

 

 

[Purple Princess]

Hi Gill,

 

Firstly, thank you for taking up the gauntlet and replying on behalf of us all, it is very much appreciated.

 

Secondly, I would agree with the above post and ask you to mention all of us PIO members that are on a bridging visa's, but maybe also the following please:

 

 

• We have been in Australia (initially in a student visa) for three years now. Paid International School fee's for 2 children. Children have integrated well into Oz life and culture and yet their future stay in Australia is as yet unknown (PR applied for in Dec 09).

• We have paid tax for three years (both parents and one teenager - part time and full time).

• We have supported the Oz economy (bought house etc etc).

• We get no benefits/allowances from either England or Oz due to temporary visa status and the fact that we really are in 'no mans land'.

• Had to go onto a Graduate Visa due to 1 year work experience (as rules changed whilst we were in Oz)., which was not accounted for or expected.

• Had to have 3 lots of medicals/police checks/x-rays/blood tests due to different visa's and will probably have to have another lot due to meds etc expiring before PR gets looked at by CO, but needed to frontload them due to being 'onshore'. Does the Immi Minister know what it's like to keep telling your 15 year old daughter 'another blood test again'....sorry but we don't have a choice.

• My OH is still working in his nominated occupation and yet we are still waiting for PR, even though we were briefly on CSL, are on new SOL, but still have been told not to expect PR until at least 2012.

• If either of my kids want to go to Uni, we will have to pay International Fees for them as we may still be on a temp visa.

 

Yes, when we left England we did expect to pay for fees etc for two years, but the rules keep changing all the time - not just to new applicants - but for existing applicants - which is what I find unfair.

 

Can I please just also say that I am getting really fed up with all of the 'negativity' surrounding the student visa route - not all of them attended dodgy colleges with dodgy paperwork - and I don't think that we should all be tarred with the same brush - and as for the poor hairdressers and cooks - I really feel for them.

 

I think thats it from us :err:

 

Thanks

 

Heather

 

Fantastic post, and one that I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

Gill,

 

The details don't affect me at the moment as I am only 1 semester into at least a 3 year degree, however, they will affect me in the future. Just to put basic figures to the list that Heather has done above, we will have paid:

$53,000 - 2 vehicles

$19,000 - rent (assuming no increase)

$95,000 - bills (elec,water,phones etc)

$50,000 - Degree fees

$25,000 - primary school fees

$242,000 Total over 3 years.

 

These figures do not include costs incurred when we first arrived, uni books (at least another $1000 per year) school uniform/trips/incidentals. OH's tax and GST input.

 

The fact is, at the end, I will be qualified to Australian standards and will not need any additional training etc. Surely the government want people 'job ready'.

 

I am so angry with the new changes, I think it will put people off applying for an Australian visa full stop. How can people with families afford to pay for all the additional items that would not be refunded by DIAC (medicals/police checks/job assessments/agents fees) if they couldn't process the visa in time when the cap applies?? The additional checks could go out of date and then they would have to pay them again, or not bother, I'm sure many would not bother......

 

Sorry to have a rant....it's not only 'us students again' in the firing line this time...as I said in a previous post, all applications are now not going to be straight forward.

 

Also, daughter has told me that she is never leaving Oz, and if we do we will have to leave her here as she has made friends!!!! (Would she be the youngest illegal immigrant!).

 

:arghh::arghh:

 

I know that you can help us all Gill, :notworthy:

 

Steph

xxxx

[Guest Jane1991]

HI, Thx for what you doing

 

 

 

but we only went back and visited them once after we reached Australia since 2006, because as long as we are not onshore, our application will not move in waiting list.

 

 

 

You don't have to stay onshore for 886/885 !! I was advised by an RMA that an applicant just has to be there in Aus at the time of grant

[yc1ten]

Hi all,

 

Together we can make a different. As well as posting into senate inquiry, it is worth to try to write to your local MP.....:wink:

[Guest luyaoqin]

I sent it directly to the minister

[Guest linxinkai]

You don't have to stay onshore for 886/885 !! I was advised by an RMA that an applicant just has to be there in Aus at the time of grant

 

no, all 885 apps holding bvA which means u have to wait onshore and once u leave OZ with bva, u can not get back again.

if you want to go back ur country for some reason, u will get a bridging visa B which normally give you 1~3months, you have to go back OZ before deadline, and meanwhile your application may not move in pipeline or processed.

It happened on some of our friends

[Purple Princess]

Hi Steph,

 

So does my daughter....she has just written a letter to the PM. May be you should ask her as well......:cute:

 

Margaretta

 

Good idea, although her spelling is not so good......:wub:

 

Steph

xxxx

[virtual_bajwa]

Oh man after looking at these calculations, what blunder is Australian Govt. is going to do by capping onshore as well as offshore applicants. If u see this for on shore applicants...

$53,000 - 2 vehicles

$19,000 - rent (assuming no increase)

$95,000 - bills (elec,water,phones etc)

$50,000 - Degree fees

$25,000 - primary school fees

$242,000 Total over 3 years.

 

What about offshore applicants. Daily so many applicants from Indian subcontinent are contributing to IDP which is an Australia organization by paying thousands of dollars for IELTS fees. And so much other fees is involved which directly or indirectly contribute to Australian economy. Most of MARA agents who are from Australia are also getting money from offshore applicants who had applied. Who will pay these expenses if Minister capped these offshore and onshore applicants. The return of only one visa fees will not work for these effected applicants. They have spend lots of money in contributing to the growth of Australia.

Remember, TOGETER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE...

[Purple Princess]

The other frustrating part is all that are affected have no right to vote......(well, no rights for anything in Australia apart from taking our money)

 

Steph

xxxx:mad:

ps I think the smilies need to be updated with angry ones!!!!

[yc1ten]

The other frustrating part is all that are affected have no right to vote......(well, no rights for anything in Australia apart from taking our money)

 

Steph

xxxx:mad:

ps I think the smilies need to be updated with angry ones!!!!

 

 

Well if (BIG if) one day I could have a vote........

 

I think I have made my self clear where my vote should go to...:realmad:

[Guest proud2beaussie]

I think I have made my self clear where my vote should go to..

Don't kid yourself into thinking that a government of another persuasion would do things any differently.

The sad fact is that elections in Australia are not won or lost on immigration,they are basicaly decided on economic factors so I would not be placing too much reliance on the situation being any different

under a liberal government.

The Liberal opposition has not even made an announcement about how they will vote on the cap and

cease legislation so it's wait and see on that front I'm afraid.

Hopefully they will listen to peoples concerns before making a decision one way or the other but I would not be holding my breath frankly.

[Guest jigish]

I am an IT recent graduate, applied in nov 08 with 7 in each IELTS section, after finishing my bachelor and master degrees. Now, after this capping and ceasing phenomenon I am going to start looking for IT jobs back in my home country, India, where things are much better than when I left.

 

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

 

Eventually, I will end up stealing someone's job from West, probably from Australia.