Life deciding doubt - Is Australia more than a beautiful face?

[Guest DMV]

First of all, I thank beforehand everyone that reads this topic with good intentions and even more those who help me in my decision!

 

Now to my issue...

 

For some time I've been flirting with the idea of moving to Australia - for about 1 year actually. I'm Italian-Brazilian, 23 and to this day I live in Brazil. I started to think about Australia because here there are lots of shows made there showing quite a promising country with nice weather, nice people, good organization and respect. And there is quite a bit of good sense and taste that they put in those shows, which got me even more interested.

 

So I started doing some research about it and fell in love with it. Through the internet there are lots of people and articles saying that it's indeed an amazing place with clean and beautiful cities, nice people, safe, full of opportunities and - most importantly - serious and sensible inspite the so called "laid back" style.

 

Some of the contact I had with the local people has been positive as well, in fact one of the Australians I got to observe in a forum that I take part in seemed very good in his character, respect and achievements. The pictures of Sidney and Melbourne and the intense European immigration got me thinking if this wasn't the best place on earth for what I look for. European-like food, people and manners (not saying no other culture is good or even better but it's my favourite so far) in somewhere with lots of space, less cold and a will to go ahead. Heck, I even started to cheer for Mark Webber in F1!

 

Now I have finished my graduation and I'm on a kind off trip-year and got the opportunity to visit Europe and Italy for the first time. I loved it! The food is amazing and cheaper than in Brazil for the quality it has, things are way more organized and serious, the overall quality of services and products is better for cheaper prices as well and actually I coped with the cold and the weather much better than I do here. The sun in Europe doesn't burn my skin and the cold, even in sub-zero forms, is for me much more pleasant than the Brazilian cold at 12 to 14 ºC.

 

I always wanted to move to Europe and got triggered after the trip. The thing is that I never liked Brazil since I was a kid. One can classify me as quite an "uptight" and that is not only given little value here as it is even undesirable. There are many good people here, but a huge chunk of the society like to do things the wrong way and think it is clever to fool people. They ruin it for everybody, specially since most of the other part doesn't do anything to change that because of fear or lack of will. Along with that, my preferences regarding food and lifestyle here are not attended as well.

 

When I started making the plans to move to Europe after this visit I remembered two things: Europe does seem to be a bit on a halt in therms of economy and people in some places and my crush on Australia. Then, finally, I decided to use the rest of this year to know it before deciding where to move. With that I began to make more serious researching about the Down Under and found this forum and many others about people that actually did what I'm thinking about doing and things are getting pretty disappointing.

 

Not only here but in other places I heard about migrants that are having loads of complaints regarding Australia. Many are having issues with overt and even violent racism, many say that only a part of the people is receptive and most is only about the laying back, the nice weather has been reported like a oven by some, the quality of the products and services is being put to question and so on. There are also those who say that the people are thick in general and the cleanness and safe is only hype.

 

I know that inside a country there are many countries and that you can never generalize, because it's wrong and a form of prejudice, but in the end of the day when you are in a society you have to deal and live with all aspects of it and important bad points about it will be very annoying and will create trouble if there is a considerable part of it behind this bad characteristics - let alone if that is the case with the majority.

 

So I'm really worried about going to the other side of the planet to find just the many of things I dislike about Brazil and others like thick people. I'm thinking how a country so beautiful and that is one of the few colonized ones that actually worked out can be so disappointing. I'm even reading about drug problems there, which I thought before that was a very controlled issue in Australia.

 

Now I got this huge doubt: Do I take the risk to know the place or I'm better off using the money to move to Europe straight away? I know that there is nothing like seeing for your self - I couldn't believe how wrong people where about French people being rude to tourists for instance - but the flight alone for my family and I to Australia costs 6k US dollars here. I don't want to convince my family to burn 10k or more in a trip only to find out - like many - that the dream was a nightmare and I could have used the money to live and start my career on the lovely Spain or Austria or even in some breathtaking parts of Italy.

 

So, fellow Europeans, can you help me with this choice? Any Australians contributing would be awesome - in fact, anyone with something concrete to say about Australia would. Thanks again for those with good will and sorry for the long text!

 

PS - In case I didn't leave it clear enough, here are things that I value in a country or society and/or in people: seriousness, respect, politeness, gentleness, cleanness, will to move forward, separation of religion and ideology from the practical issues, passion, quest/focus for quality and discreteness. A fine living - but not run down or arrogant - lifestyle is also valued by me.

[Guest siamsusie]

An amazing post DMV, congratulations! my advice would be to come over and back pack for a few months. I know you might find that expensive but it certainly would be cheaper than dragging the whole family over here to find you dont like it.

You havent mentioned what you graduated in.... this would presumably determine the state you would end up working and living within. Have you determined whether you will you be issued a visa? when you refer to family is this a wife and children or parents?

Its difficult to advise on the culture here because we are all different, mix with different people and all come from a varied background. For some I am sure they see Australians as uncultured, rough and certainly not gentle, for me being married to an Australian I see our family and friends as the "salt of the earth , who couldnt do enough for you type of people." I for one have not been disappointed but I have lived all over the world so I came with very little expectation.

Its a nation of people who ostensibly derive from europe (bar the indigenous people) bringing their own cultures, manners etc into the vast land).

Much research needs to be done on your part, you could be pleasantly surprised as many people are or extremely disappointed.... You certainly have come to the right forum because you will get honest opinions from those that love or hate it, and from there you can try and come to some conclusion yourself.

 

Very best wishes Susie

 

 

NB I would add that there are some well respected agents on this forum /lawyers etc . so it might be worthwhile heeding some of their advice x

[Guest Spindy]

What an insightful post....let me tell you our story

 

We live in UK and have a very lovely life and home. We decided 3 months ago to research moving to Australia because we want to live somewhere sunny and which speaks English. So off we embarked on our research for this 'magical mystical better quality of life" attending a Live Down under show, and hours each day of searching the internet for schools, house prices, car prices, cost of living etc etc. We decided we would sell our UK home to fund the move and also have equity in the house which we would take to Australia to buy a new house.

 

There is no doubt that the weather will be fantastic, and that there is open spaces and the sky is beautiful , I have never been to Australia but I feel I know it now because of this site and my own research.

 

My personal dream for over a decade was to own my own home in Spain having been there literally dozens of times. The weather is fantastic there too and groceries are very affordable. The Spanish people are very kind and help my Daughters and I with our stilted Spanish!! I realised that if we move to Australia we will never see Spain or Italy again : ( I also love very much UK history and culture, what I don,t like is the overcrowed Britain we have now.

 

Europe is more affordable at the moment to buy a home, and we could keep UK home and buy a little place in Spain.

 

So here we are in the process of detailing OH career for his RPL we have an agent, OH skills are on the new SOL list, but now we are not sure what to do as we have read and heard of some sad cases where families have moved to Australia and it has been an expensive mistake both emotionally and financially, I would be an idiot not to take this information on board together with all the wonderful and positive things I have learned about living down under. Now armed with this information we are TORN.

 

It,s a gamble, I never thought I would say that. It,s a gamble because OH will have to quit his job and when we arrive in OZ he will have to look for a new job and he is worried he won,t get one and if he doe,s will it afford us the comfortable life we have here in UK???? Wish I could see around corners what does the future have in store for my family and I, At the moment its worry and sleepless nights.

[Guest DMV]

Thank you Siamsusie and Spindy for sharing your thoughts and enjoying my post!

 

Siamsusie, I have graduated in International Relations. Frankly, I have no idea if it is a demanded or even a know career in Australia but in the quest for a better country to live I would not bother doing activities out of my graduation scope. I also have good abilities relating to cars, so I could work in something this way as well.

 

About the visa, that's another thing to stablish. I'm pretty sure I can get the visitation one but not so sure about the working or living one. I would much probably go there without sponsoring, but if needed I could bring enough money to buy a house and get me going for some time - even if it means to sell some of our stuff here. Is that all it takes or they demand you have a sponsor or any other guarantees? I read somewhere - maybe here in Poms In Oz - that if you don't sell your house in your country of origin they take that as an extra guarantee and it increases the chances of getting the visa. Is that right?

 

The English language certificate is not a problem for me as I've done it some time ago, but not for my parents - they are the family I would be bringing in. My father also speaks English but not well enough to get a certificate and my mom doesn't speak. But they are both retired and would probably not work. Maybe I should come first and then, after getting a job, try to bring them as family? Is there a visa specially for family that enables them to live with me?

 

And it's nice to hear that your husband and local friends are indeed what people say positively about Australia and what makes the a big part of the magic about it! You feel that this is uniform over all the country or just in the particular state that you are? And in comparison to to other countries that you have lived, how do you rate Australia - especially at the people and culture? Is the food, when European-like, as good as there in taste and quality?

 

At last, as you mentioned the aboriginal question, how is it being handled? That's one of the parts that I've been reading more sad histories.

 

I'll follow your advice to try to contact one of the agents here in the forum and if deciding to give Australia a try, going alone the first time to save money if possible.

 

Spindy, your doubt and situation is pretty much what I have been living. Only thing that makes it less hard for me is that I don't have to search for schools. And indeed Spain is a lovely place. I also got very well treated by them with a basic level Spanish and felt they care about you when you are in a difficult situation or in need of help. Prices are good as well and the weather is a nice balance.

 

About the prices in Australia, you are not the first one I read complaining about it. Even with the Australian Dollar valued less then the Pound or the Euro the prices are worse? When searching for hotels and some other stuff they gave me the impression that things would cost less then Europe. Maybe the houses are still cheaper in EU because of the crisis?

 

I hope you also find the answer to your question! By the way, does OH stands for husband? SOL for the Skilled Working List? And what's RPL? I didn't know about these acronyms.

[Guest chris955]

It's very hard to generalise about these things, I have found people here to be much like other places, you get good people and bad, rude people and polite. Like anywhere most people you meet are nice and will help you.

Australia is a much more expensive place than it was even 5 years ago, we have the dubious honour of having the least affordable housing in the world. It is a beautiful country with many things to do and see and coming from Brazil the weather will probably suit you depending on where you go.

Again, like anywhere else in the world this country certainly isn't for everyone but many come and stay. Just remember that programmes on TV rarely show the bad side of anywhere.

[Guest DMV]

Thanks for answering, Chris955!

 

I know about every place having the good and the bad part, but if you could give a proportion of nice people versus rude people there in Australia, which would it be?

 

And the housing prices seem to be a common point that even those who enjoyed it complain. Quite a surprise for me really, as there are loads of space and the Australian Dollar is quite less valued than the Euro for instance.

 

Speaking of the weather, I would say I'm more inclined to the weather that you find in Spain or Italy than that of Brazil. The sun here is very harsh on my skin and the cold has a worse sensation. Is there any state in Australia that has weather like in the Mediterranean?

 

About the TV shows, you are absolutely right. That's why I'm trying to get insight from those who have actually been through the real deal.

 

And, overall, would you say in your specific case that you ended up liking Australia more than the UK/Europe?

[Guest siamsusie]

I have graduated in International Relations. It appears a wonderful subject albeit broad spectrum and I think you are going to have to look at the demand list and see what is required. This is where speaking to an agent would be vital for you to determine many factors.

Regarding your parents, maybe have a look at Contributory Parent (Migrant) Visa (from Subclass 173 to Subclass 143) but again I am definately no expert on this. so dont hold me to this please... and I know from reading many posts on this very subject it can be quite a lengthy process and certainly not easy. I am hoping either an agent or Gollywobbler (Moderator) will pick up your posts and give some guidance as to the best course to take.

 

I have lived over in WA for just over 4 years and now moved over to Tasmania. My husband is a Tasmanian so I personally have felt I have had an easy ride with introductions into the country.

I have always been treated well, all my friends are either Australians or asian with the same beliefs and values as myself... but as well you know there are arrogant, ignorant people everywhere but as a nation on the whole I have found them to be a great, calling a spade a spade.

We recently had a bush fire in my neighbourhood (January) and the amount of help we were offered and received was overwhelming, particularly when you meet the local car mechanic who is a volunteer fireman (amongst many) and saved our home:hug: slabs of beer all around, they sure deserve it:notworthy:!

From my perspective I probably found Melbourne to be similar to having the "european feel " about it.... some great restaurants, promenades , trams , cafes, theatre, etc Little Italy, Melbourne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Adelaide with its Brossa Valley is also a wonderful state, but like Tasmania quieter and probably not as much to do for younger people. Each state is so different each having its merits. So many beautiful states Queensland etc.....

Food wise, I find it excellent, some say expensive...I find it reasonable. I dont waste, I dont buy convenient foods.. most things can be found here, Australia caters for most tastes. Here in Tasmania I am spoilt for choice.......I do support my local shops even if its a few bucks more, for me it means quality and keeping the village alive. I do try and keep away from Woolworths & Coles (The Big 2) wherever possible unless goods are on offer. Alcohol is dearer without a doubt, and some lean to "make it yourself" but I still buy decent wines from local Tasmanian growers for $4-5 a bottle for decent stuff.

 

Regarding the Aboriginal question.... my husband adopted a great lad from the age of 2 who has turned into a fine young man qualifying as a Dr. who in turn has married ( a great wedding) an aboriginal Dr. so we have a very large aboriginal extended family who are talented artists, health professionals, historians, well respected tradesman etc. There remains much to be done in my opinion, and slowly they are helping themselves but it is a sensitive issue with many including the aboriginals themselves but for us as a family we have learnt much, amidst many tears and laughter.

 

I recently camped with a great guy from the bush (aboriginal) who taught me to circle my camp site with petrol to keep the nasties at bay... as long as you are not a smoker, great advice, it worked wonders:laugh:.

 

If I were to be leaving your land with your parents, I personally would be looking at :

1. How easy would integration be for them considering there is a language problem

with one of them.

2. Australia is a relatively new country and would they /you miss the old traditions and

european type cultures

 

Personally for me and this is the reason I chose Tasmania it is a smaller state, it is cooler, cosier and resembles the celtic lands. Mainland europe will always hold a special place in my heart but I am extremely happy here. I made the right choice!

 

I hope you carry on with your research, its important to get it right particularly where your parents are concerned , it can end up an expensive, emotional expense and do maybe enlist the advice of an agent even on a consultation basis to see what may be open to you.

 

best wishes Susie

[Guest]

Perth's weather is classed as mediterranean but I would say it's much hotter than the Spain I know. Melbourne is probably the closest and seems to be the preference for people who don't seek hot weather.

 

Australia is very different to Europe and the lifestyle is more akin to the US. You asked is Australia more than a pretty face and I'd say these European eyes don't think it's pretty (though I like it here!) It is a huge country, so huge it's difficult to comprehend that without flying you will get to see very little of it. I work with people who have never been to an Australian city other than Perth.

 

The racism that has been in the media is isolated, I can't speak for Melbourne or Sydney where incidents have occured but one of the things I love about Perth is how multiculturalism is integrated and embraced. It is certainly a far more welcoming environment than the UK.

 

You're not going to know unless you come though as some people hate it, some people love it and others like me think on balance it is better than the UK but not all it's cracked up to be - my mam sends me newspaper articles about Australia from the Uk and I laugh now at the propaganda. Australia needs skilled people and tourists and markets itself very well!

[Guest Spindy]

By the way, does OH stands for husband? SOL for the Skilled Working List? And what's RPL? I didn't know about these acronyms.

 

Hi, Yes you are correct with OH & SOL.:biggrin:

 

RPL is (recognision of prior learning), which you need to prove to the relative body that assess your skills in order that you can apply for a visa. This is if you have not got a degree or other qualification that Australia requires you to have. So my OH did not finish his degree hence we have to do a RPL it takes along time but its another "way in" so to speak.

 

We have decided to finish doing the RPL apply for the visa, hopefully after receiving a positive from the ACS ( Australia computer society), then validate the visa or move out.

 

Considering it will be a year I think before we get a visa its lots of time to think about what we will do with the visa if we are lucky enough to get one.

 

The way we are thinking now is the visa is like a Golden Ticket, if we don,t have one then we have no choices.

 

We are off to Spain in 8 weeks and I may have to end my love affair with the country then :eek:

 

good luck with your research it will take many hours and many questions, but fate will show you the way.

[tracy123]

Hi DMV, and welcome to PIO.

 

1st off you can't take what people say to heart, there are some people that hop off that plane that love Australia and over x amount of time those things they loved don't seem so important, while for others it works in reverse. Some have loved their holiday so much all they have wanted to do is move down under, and once there for good, hate it. Others that dislike one state but since moving to another have found what they are looking for, we are all different and it's good reading about the positives and negatives about any place but they are all personal.

People come from all over the place and I guess it's down to what they miss. If you have lived in 1 place all of your life you should have a large group of life long friends, if you live in a small village you will know lots of people, move somewhere (anywhere) and that will change, but some will blame Australia for being un friendly and or not being able to make friends etc, well it's not really Australia is it? While others that have moved around a lot may find it easy to make friends. It's all personal

 

All that said, Australia has it's faults and is not perfect but it all comes down to you and your expectations and what you want. There are no guarantees in life so just get out there and live it

 

If you listen to anyone other than your heart and head you will be missing out and may end up with loads of regrets.

 

All the best

 

Geoffrey

[Guest chris955]

No problem. It's a very difficult question to answer, most people are friendly, some are rude.

Yes the house prices surprise quite a few believe me.

It sounds as though you will suit Melbourne more than up here in Brisbane, we get VERY harsh sun up here.

I was bought up here but have lived in the UK for about 15 years or so, maybe more. I love a lot of things about this country but overall for me personally I prefer the UK, I love the English sense of humour, the pubs, the green countryside, the history and architecture and the fact that they are on the doorstep of Europe. That is me and no doubt there are others that can't wait to see the back of the UK or Europe for whatever reason.

 

Thanks for answering, Chris955!

 

I know about every place having the good and the bad part, but if you could give a proportion of nice people versus rude people there in Australia, which would it be?

 

And the housing prices seem to be a common point that even those who enjoyed it complain. Quite a surprise for me really, as there are loads of space and the Australian Dollar is quite less valued than the Euro for instance.

 

Speaking of the weather, I would say I'm more inclined to the weather that you find in Spain or Italy than that of Brazil. The sun here is very harsh on my skin and the cold has a worse sensation. Is there any state in Australia that has weather like in the Mediterranean?

 

About the TV shows, you are absolutely right. That's why I'm trying to get insight from those who have actually been through the real deal.

 

And, overall, would you say in your specific case that you ended up liking Australia more than the UK/Europe?

[Guest DMV]

Siamsusie, thanks for the link you gave me! With it I also found the demanded carrers they have. Apparently it is a know career in Australia but unfortunately not among those they look for to give SOL based visas. So the parents thing may ended up being easier than me getting the visa. I'm yet to check this with an agent, but seems like in my situation the visa would have to be warranty based.

 

About the cities, Melbourne is starting to be the one I would be aiming to go if I go for this ride. I was aware of the Italian presence in it and with the weather and culture being more Euro-like it might suit me better. Would you say Adelaide and Tasmania could be also what I'm looking for except for the part of "not many things for young people"? I'm not really worried about this as I'm quite reserved and as long as there are people about my age to hang out and make friendship I don't care much about that...

 

About the aboriginals, seems like there is still a bit of extreme positions on that, right? The same time I read your nice history with them I read some very bad things as well coming from both sides of the issue. Sounds like new country problems, maybe will get solved with some time then. Here in Brazil we are still dealing with this issue for instance and albeit there is very little relates of violence and prejudice we don't have them as integrated in the society as they seem to be in Australia so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

And are Woolworths & Coles the most common supermarkets there?

 

Jules2409, you would say the style more inclined to the US one is the prominent one in Australia then? Nice for me to know it, as I'm not too keen on the US style.

 

In regard to cities, Perth is quite a common destination to the British, right?

 

About the propaganda, yes, after you research a bit more it does seem like it's a bit exaggerated and that they really need tourists and skilled workers.

 

And I've heard about the Sydney and Melbourne cases. They left me quite disappointed.

 

Spindy, thanks for telling me the meaning of RPL. I hope your trip to Spain and your way to the visa for Australia all help to clear things up for you as well!

 

Geoffrey , thanks for the welcome! I do indeed read about lots of cases where it seems to be more of a homesick issue than really something wrong about Australia. And yes, many of this problems are in the end personal points of view and not really problems. I'm trying to filter those personal aspects but issues like rudeness and violent or racist behaviour are wrong no matter the personal opinion. For instance I could pass as a typical European or even a Brit there but racism is always a downside in a society and even worse when it gets violent.

 

And as I have more of an European taste, the preferences that many Brits put in their vision of Australia might reflect mine as well. But as you said only I can answer this for good and so I'll try to do a reconnaissance trip if possible. But the costs of it are still a problem...

 

chris955, this some are rude that kills me in doubts heheh. About the cities, ironically Brisbane was one of those I enjoyed the most when I started my research. But since the sun is very harsh that's a no way for me unless it would make it up by being awesome.

 

And, in the hope of not being too personal, may I know what's keeping you in Australia if you prefer the UK?

[Guest JulieW]

Spindy, if you love Spain and Italy, are you sure Australia is the right place for you? One of the things I and many others most miss is the proximity to Europe. As far as weather is concerned, for me Spain and italy have better weather than Australia - more settled and less extreme.

 

DMV - Im not sure Australia has a pretty face, certainly not compared to Europe, either in the built environment or the countryside. Its the aesthetics of the place that get me down most. Also, if you love Europe, remember that Australia tends towards an American lifestyle.

[Guest chris955]

You make a very good point actually, this country is way more American than European in everything from the roads, big cars, houses, loads of flashing signs everywhere.

 

 

DMV - Im not sure Australia has a pretty face, certainly not compared to Europe, either in the built environment or the countryside. Its the aesthetics of the place that get me down most. Also, if you love Europe, remember that Australia tends towards an American lifestyle.

[Guest DMV]

JulieW, thank you for your opinion. So you didn't enjoy not even the big cities there? Pictures can indeed be deceiving then, as on photos Sydney or Melbourne look great...

 

And what do you mean by the Australian aesthetics getting you down? Is it badly kept or messy?

 

May I ask if the proximity with Europe and your dislike of the appearance are the only things that make you want to go back to the UK or there is more?

 

Chris955, from the cars at least I think indeed they are more to the American stile. Didn't know the cities were also.

[Guest Waylyn]

Aus is an amazing country but what you write about the reasons for going are very interesting.

When we first moved to Aus I was looking for Utopia, after several months I realised that this wasn't it. My OH was in work and I was alone all day by myself. I started to get almost agoraphobic, I couldn't venture to the city and had to stay within the confines of the town we lived in until I got myself over it. Fortunately I nipped it in the bud before it took over as I recognised the signs.

 

Moving to another country with no support structure is very, very hard. I missed my family. Once I started working things got better, for one thing I had money it order to go shopping (always a good thing). I kept a lot of this from my OH at the time. I felt it was my problem and I needed to get over it, especially as things we going well in his job.

 

After a while we settled in. We were really enjoying it. But there were always niggles at the back of our mind and we were very homesick. Various issues made us decide to go back to the UK.

 

Aus has different meanings to everyone. It is a fantastic country but it is bar far not Utopia. And, in case you didn't know (because I did search high and low for it) Utopia does not exist. If you accept that but want to try somewhere new, then give Aus a try. Nobody can tell you for sure that it is the right country for you, the only way you will ever find that out is by trying it. If you don't like it you can always go back. That's what we did.

Note, I did not say 'go back home'. When we came back from Aus we were still talking about Aus as 'home' and I think that should have told us something. I personally still think of Aus as home even though at the time I couldn't stay and I and the OH wanted to come back to the UK.

 

We both feel we didn't give Aus enough of a chance and now we both want to go back and become Citizens.

 

Ultimately, it is a tough decision that only you alone can make. If you have never been there before then I can recommend a visit. I spent time with friends in Melbourne first and I loved it. Then I met my OH and said I wanted to live in Aus, he then got us across without ever visiting before. I personally believe that Aus can get under your skin, and that it will keep calling you back. The OH also now understands this as he now feels the same way.

 

It's not for everybody and not everybody likes it. But would life be boring if we all liked the same things?

 

As someone who is interested in Brasil I would like to talk to you about your country. If you are a fan of motor racing then we will have heaps to talk about!

 

Whatever you decide, I wish you luck. It is hard but it is a fantastic journey!

[Guest DMV]

Lynne, thank you for your reply and your PM!

 

I must say that Utopia is quite the right word me and many people use to have in mind when thinking about Australia. I thought everything was organized, beautiful, clean and that the relatively large amount of regulamentation was for the good and a sign of perfectionism - that was one of the things attracting me the most. After digging a fair more and reading peoples experiences in this and others sites I started to realize that Australia is indeed nice but very little of it is actually utopic. The weather that seems lovely on photos and shows is in reality too hot for european standards, the organization and regulamentations seem to be more of an attempt and the nice people and places all round get real mostly on the TV shows.

 

As someone said in this topic earlier, Australia needs people there visiting and working and it does quite some effort to sell itself - even if that means conveniently leaving behind the bad points sometimes. Before I was willing to say goodbye to Europe and living the risk of the move, the uncertainty about the visa and the job and also spending money on it. I thought the effort was worth it because it was such an amazing country and I had the idea that Australia was like a place that united the best of the earth on it self and the best people on earth would go the long miles - in every sense - to get there and do their best as well. I thought that was the reason even after being a colony and with so much immigration from all over the world it would still be great and seemingly the best in many things.

 

Now that I've seen beyond what they sell and what many people who haven't been there sell, things have changed enormously. I still have appreciation for it and think it has a huge potential if the truly utopic and amazing side of it - that is small, but powerful - comes up for the whole country. But I'm not on that crazy "sell everything and risk everything for this paradise" mood anymore. I'm very found of visiting it sometime and might find out that in the end Europe and Australia have more or less the same gremlins, but the trill of it for me was pursuing that semi-perfect place it seemed to be. With things much more guaranteed and safe at Europe, and with the family wanting to go there, I guess I'll have to leave Australia for later and as my secret and doubtful affair. Not perfect for not perfect, I guess it's better to choose the more certain option as the clock ticks and money is limited...

 

By the way, today I searched for houses there and the prices are incredible. You can buy a nice and spacious apartment in Barcelona with the same price you can buy a 1 room small apartment in the suburbs of Perth. That really got me disappointed as it is such a large country with so little density. Something must be wrong in how the cities are being planned or the taxes are charged. I'll also take what UN says with a large grain of salt from now on. The say Norway has the best quality of life of the world and when I went there it was certainly not the best standard in Europe - leave alone the world. They also say Australia is the safest country there is, but for the safest one I'm reading quite average to low histories.

 

Having said all that, I still want to know about Australia and I'm open to anyone changing my mind. And I'll keep the idea of making the country a visit as soon as possible.

 

Lynne, feel free to ask me about Brasil here or through PM. If you could elaborate more on your decision to go back to Australia even after deciding to go back to the UK I would also like to know - especially about what makes it get under your skin.

[Guest chris955]

You would be surprised just how many people think this country is Utopia and mostly from people who have never been here and seem to base the opinion largely on what the weather is like. I'm amazed when I read on here how people want to escape the crime and unemployment and high house prices in the UK and seem oblivious to all the same stuff here.

Australia is a beautiful county with much to offer but to believe it is without all the issues the rest of the world has is naive at best. Todays news, just locally, a girl was dragged off a footpath and raped and a school was burned down. These things happen everywhere, this country isn't any different and isn't special. I grew up here and I'm under no illusions about how good or bad it is.

Australia does a brilliant job at selling itself but it does tend to be a little shy when it comes to revealing the facts sometimes.

Despite everything I have said I love this country, I don't think I want to live here anymore though. It is paradise for some, average for others and hell for the rest.

[Guest JulieW]

Hi DMV. Sorry for not replying earlier to your questions.

 

You ask whether I have found the cities here attractive. In a word, no. Sydney harbour is stunning but beyond that, it's pretty much the same as other Australian cities, ie miles and miles of suburbia with no real landmarks and, my personal bugbear, overhead wires and endless signs cluttering up the sky. The city centres are really just a lot of high rise buildings gathered together. If you compare Melbourne, where I live, to Rome, London, Madrid, Paris, etc, there really is no contest aesthetically. And beyond the capital cities, there are no real smaller cities with all the infrastructure you expect - I mean places like Bath, Bristol, Oxford in the UK. The countryside is also not a patch on the UK, France, Italy.

 

You also ask whether there are reasons beyond aesthetics for my wanting to go back to the UK. Plenty! Let's see - education, the BBC, British humour, long summer evenings, birdsong, my family, being able to live in a village within reach of a city, deciduous trees, Christmas in Winter, Easter in Spring. I could go on.

 

I do think Australia sells itself as a place where life is properly organised but it really does have all the problems of the UK together with others of its own.

[Paul1Perth]

From a personal point of view Perth IS Utopia. We hadn't been here before we emigrated but had done some research. This was back in 92 so before the internet.

 

It depends what you want out of life but for me everything I was looking for is here my wife feels much the same, my eldest (20) has had a great time growing up here but wants to travel a bit now. Good time to do it he is at the end of his electrical apprenticeship and has a bit saved up. My youngest (15) is still at school and doing fine.

 

When we emigrated we had a timeshare in Portugal on the South Coast and loved it there. If we had been fluent in Portugese we may have moved there. When we went to the Australian Embassy we saw several references comparing Perth to the Algarve in Portugal so we thought that would be great. The comparisons were justified as the climate is very similar as are the great beaches and even scenery is similar.

 

My wife and I both love Sunny weather and the beach lifestyle and are both pretty "sporty" people who enjoy keeping fit. We are both in our 50's now so as fit as we can be that is.

 

We are members of a Surf Club which is only 5 mins from our house, I have a surf ski which I keep down there and use a lot. We spend most of our spare time at the beach, even after being here 20 years we still love it. We have a lot of friends we have mostly met through the surf club and (obviously) have similar interests to us so always have plenty to talk about. We don't miss going away on holiday any more as we would just be doing the same thing as we do here every weekend.

 

It's not for everyone but for us it's worked out to be perfect. If we were to emigrate now it would be much harder as house prices, in particular, have gone crazy and the exchange rate has got worse. We were just lucky but we knew what we wanted out of life and it's worked for us.

[Guest Waylyn]

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/brits-oz/18253-why-i-moved-back-oz-9.html

 

DMV, you ask about Aus getting under my skin and that is something that is very hard to put into words. I had said this to the OH when he first went there and he couldn't understand what I meant until we came back to the UK. It's like Aus is a little devil sitting on my shoulder saying "come back to me, come back!".

 

OH and I both realize that we miss Aus as a country more than we missed the UK. However, I’m not into Britain Bashing, I’m not going to say the country is awful etc, etc. There are many reasons why we prefer Aus and none are to do with less/more crime, or TV. We prefer Aus because we felt we had more of a life there, perhaps it was because it was just us on our own or that we did more in 3 years together in Aus then the previous 5 years we were together in the UK. OK, so we had to rent in Aus after selling our house in the UK but the rental market in Sydney offers a good choice. We had a few ups and downs with rentals but for the most part the places were very good as were the companies we were renting from.

 

We did heaps of traveling in Aus. Aus is so vast that you think nothing of driving 4 hours or more to get somewhere. I used to regularly drive 4 hours or more to get to racetracks in the UK for weekend fun so driving distance for me wasn’t a problem. We would have loved to have seen more of Europe, my dream was always to see Europe and then emigrate to Aus but often things don’t work out as we would like them to!

And if I had to pick one thing that I miss greatly when in Aus it would be just how far away Europe is. However, being in the UK and having Europe on our doorstep would be fab if we had the money and time to do all the trips we would like to.

 

You mention Barcelona in your post – we love Barca! One of our favourite cities in the world. It actually doesn’t surprise me about the prices in Perth, the city went and is probably still going through a boom. We have friends there and they were fortunate enough to go to Perth many, many years ago. Back then they could only afford the outskirts but now they are classed as being inner city as it has grown so much. As far as I am aware, Perth is one of the dearer places to buy in. I must admit that while I like Perth and it is a lovely place, it isn’t top on my list for places to live in Aus. But that is just my personal feeling, many people wouldn’t dream of living anywhere else but Perth.

 

For more understanding about my feelings and what I miss about Aus/UK, read my post here: http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/brits-oz/18253-why-i-moved-back-oz-9.html

No. 86

 

You mention your family would prefer Europe? Or have I mis-read your post? Where family is involved it is far more difficult to make a life changing decision, you need to make sure that everyone is happy. We only have ourselves to consider as we have no children, so our happiness is the only thing that matters.

 

What ever you decided, I hope it all works out for you!

[Guest DMV]

Chris955, I've read similar stories to those you wrote, with some involving immigrants being the victims or the authors. At first I thought it was just stories people told after being bitter about the country or that were exaggerated, but with so many of them I guess they are true. That's not the kind of thing that should happen with frequency on the place that was classified the most safe on earth, so the exaggeration does indeed happens - but on the other side. No Utopia really, unfortunatelly.

 

May I ask where are you thinking to move?

 

JulieW, no problem!

 

About the cities, quite fun that even on internet it's hard to find a picture of Sydney or Melbourne that isn't on this good looking spots, right? Either they do know how to keep showing only the good points or people get mesmerised with those points of the cities and only photograph/show that as well. From them I never imagined the cities were not tidy and were just accumulations of suburbs! Nice to know that, even if it means disappointment. Lacking small cities with infrastructure reminds me of where I live more than a high quality living country as well...

 

By the way, do you feel the UK is better at life quality and society in your opinion after your experience in Melbourne? And the dealing with immigration is good at Melbourne or is it another selling thing?

 

Paul1Perth, thanks for your opinion. And indeed Australia in general seems to be really good for those seeking a life style that is oriented toward sports and the beach. With the way it is geographically, it would be hard to be different. Maybe one of the good points os Australia that actually live it up for the expectations?

 

But besides the sport and beach oriented life, what else you would classify as positive about Perth/Australia? And there aren't any negatives in your view?

 

About Portugal, I didn't have the opportunity to visit it in my trip to Europe. It's one of my to-do things though. And maybe speaking Portuguese wouldn't be much of a problem, as I've found many Portuguese people at EU that could speak English and other languages as well.

 

Finally, congratulations on making the move work out and making it on a moment that was much more favourable financially. The prices now are really crazy!

 

Lynne, I can understand the little devil saying come back because for me - after all the disappointment - it still exists. But to me it keeps saying "come know me" and not come back hehehehe. Maybe even with all it's problems there is indeed magic in this place. And I see what you mean after reading your other post. You are being able to have a better experience and accomplishing your goals more easily in Australia than in EU. Would you say that any characteristic of the country is what is being able to do that?

 

About the driving distances, I kinda get the picture as Australia is one country that itself is more or less the size of the whole Europe, right? In this aspect it is much more similar to Brasil, but there are many main cities within the reach of a one our drive. By the way, if you also like to drive you you should try to make your desired tour through EU by car. In a 4 hour driving session, for instance, you can reach many cities and even cross countries.

 

And what racetracks have you been in UK? Ever been to a track day? Those race events trips are one of the things I'm most exited to do if I move to Europe!

 

About Barcelona, yes, it is lovely. And came as a surprise to me as I only expected it to be a main city, but never to be a great city and certainly one of the best in EU.

 

Finally, about my family, you read right. My parents fancy Europe much more than anywhere else in the world to move in or even visit. They don't share the same attraction about Australia that I have and that's why I'm being cautious about the possibility of Australia because it would suck if I convinced them to go there instead of to the EU only to look like a huge mistake that took time and money. My father started to get exited about the idea, but after knowing about the heat, the more american life style and the euro-like food not being as good as in Europe he got way less happy about it.

 

By the way, thanks for the vowels!

[Guest tonysharpe]

what a really good post we are moving out to sydney soon OH in June daughter and me to follow in August looking forward to it.But moving out there with our eyes open wide not expecting it all to be a bed of roses but thinking life is for living and you have to give it go and not live with regrets ,a really well balanced view of how a huge move like is !!!!

thankyou Tracy

[Guest Waylyn]

DMV,

I don't know how old your parents are (or as a friend in Aus put in his mail a little while ago 'the rents' LOL) but you should be doing what is best for you.

I beat myself up for ages with feelings of guilt in going back to Aus as I will be leaving my mum again, she's in her 70's and we're very close but I know that she wants what is best for me, and what is best for me is Aus and she knows that. Bless, she was trying her best to convince OH and I to stay out in Aus. But I'm glad we came back. This time round it feels different, probably because it is! This time we will (hopefully) be going back as Permanent Residents, we know this is the beginning of the rest of our life. Last time we were too busy comparing countries instead of accepting Aus as it is. Yes, the TV isn't very good and grocery prices are high and customer service very often stinks (7 day return on faulty items? WTF!) but now we know all these things we can integrate easier. What's the point in getting stressed over things just because they are done differently? It would be the same in any country, they all have their different ways of doing things.

 

As for racetracks - let's see, in the UK I have been to:

Pembrey

Castle Coombe

Snetterton

Thruxton

Brands Hatch

Silverstone

Croft

I used to follow British F3 many, many years ago. We had quite a few Brasilians racing hence my interest in your country. Drivers such as Enrique Bernoldi, Ricardo Mauricio, Wagner Ebrahim, Mario Haberfeld and my all time fave, Luciano Burti.

 

With my love of F1 I have been to:

Catalunya

Nurburgring

Hockenheim

Melbourne (my first ever trip to Aus)

 

And MotoGP took me to Phillip Island (my second trip to Aus)

Plus OH and I went to watch the MotoGP there many years later as well as to Perth in 2006 for the WRC.

 

I guess you could call me a petrol head LOL

 

I've never done a track day but have always wanted to. I have been taken around Silverstone in a Lotus by a pro - that was amazing!

And I've done a couple of Rally laps at Silvertone and lets just say that I will never make a Rally Driver LOL

Think I'll stick to watching the pro's do it properly.

[Guest DMV]

Tonysharpe, thank you and I hope the topic and all the posts it had help you in your move!

 

Lynne, they are about 50. And yes, I know I should pursue what's best for me, but the extra complicating factor is that they want to move too. So, as it is a group initiative, things must be the best for everyone involved and not just me.

 

And, by the way, what's the normal return policy for defective items in the UK?

 

About the racetracks, wow, impressive! I've been only to two of them in my life, and I like racing as well! While in Europe I did go to Fiorano, Imola and Monza - but I couldn't enter on them. The ones that I know are here in Brasil (Interlagos and the one in Rio de Janeiro). Seeing the WRC must be also amazing!

 

And after Senna we had a lot of drivers trying to follow his lead into F1. Most have reached only F3, unfortunately. Luciano Burti, that you have mentioned, got to F1 but it didn't work and now he is one of the commentators in the F1 broadcasts here. Bernoldi got a shot as well but now I don't know where he is. And can you believe that even with all those nationals on F3 it wasn't televised here?