"Cap & Cease" Terminations Are To Start Soon

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Oh i'm sick of changes.

 

I think we can speculate all we want the fact is we know NOTHING until the DIAC decide at the last minute to implement the change and then tell everyone the round about version which is not the whole truth anyway!!!!

 

 

Hi Rach

 

I could not agree with you more.

 

I think it is totally deplorable that you are correct, but I do think that you are correct, nevertheless.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[dasalcedo]

Hi Daniel

 

Originally, DIAC said that your own application would be Capped & Ceased.

 

However later on DIAC back-tracked about you because you are in Australia. Because of your whereabouts, DIAC decided to leave your particular visa application up & running and to remove it from the ambit of Cap & Cease.

 

So I don't understand your post above. Are you saying that DIAC have now changed their minds yet again and that they do intend to try to Cap & Cease your application after all? If so, where have you gleaned this information from, please?

 

Many thanks:notworthy:

 

Gill

 

Hi Gill, here I paste the email I got from my agent:

 

Thank you for your email which has been referred to the Migration Agents

Mailbox for reply.

 

As Mr ******'s nominated occupation is not on the Critical Skills

List and he is not sponsored by a State or Territory of Australia, his

application has not yet able to be assigned to a case officer under the

current processing priorities.date.

 

Unfortunately while the cap has not yet been announced and reached, given

the above it is likely Mr *****'s application will be ceased and

the Visa Application Charge returned when the cap is reached.

 

Mr ******* is welcome to lodge a new application, paying a new

application fee or to explore the option of seeking an Australian employer

to formally sponsor him.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

*********

 

Department of Immigration and Citizenship

 

This is the email my agent got from DIAC after asking them about my case. My agent sent several emails to destinations in DIAC recommended by MIA.

[virtual_bajwa]

Hey all,

Yes, this is true that these are the standard replies from DIAC, as today I saw few of same replies on the other forums.So , please be careful about these replies before coming to conclusion. DIAC is doing everything in confusing people about CEASING AND CAPPING as their own staff do not know what to do?

[Guest rachbarlow]

Hi Rach

 

I could not agree with you more.

 

I think it is totally deplorable that you are correct, but I do think that you are correct, nevertheless.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

 

Thanks Gill!!

 

But heh there is nothing we can do appart from wait and grovel!!! :wacko: Is there???

 

Rach

[Guest geshdan]

Hi Gill, here I paste the email I got from my agent:

 

Thank you for your email which has been referred to the Migration Agents

Mailbox for reply.

 

As Mr ******'s nominated occupation is not on the Critical Skills

List and he is not sponsored by a State or Territory of Australia, his

application has not yet able to be assigned to a case officer under the

current processing priorities.date.

 

Unfortunately while the cap has not yet been announced and reached, given

the above it is likely Mr *****'s application will be ceased and

the Visa Application Charge returned when the cap is reached.

 

Mr ******* is welcome to lodge a new application, paying a new

application fee or to explore the option of seeking an Australian employer

to formally sponsor him.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

*********

 

Department of Immigration and Citizenship

 

This is the email my agent got from DIAC after asking them about my case. My agent sent several emails to destinations in DIAC recommended by MIA.

 

Hi Daniel,

 

Are you a Pre-Sept 2007 applicant? The e-mail above must have caused you so much emotional stressed.

[dasalcedo]

Hi Daniel,

 

Are you a Pre-Sept 2007 applicant? The e-mail above must have caused you so much emotional stressed.

 

Yes geshdan, I'm a pre-Sept 2007 applicant living in Australia for 3 years.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Yes geshdan, I'm a pre-Sept 2007 applicant living in Australia for 3 years.

 

Hi Daniel

 

I am 99% sure that the MIA are correct and that your visa application would not be Capped & Killed.

 

However, if DIAC are going to take forever about processing the application, avoiding using the Cap & Kill procedure really doesn't get you very far, it seems to me.

 

1. What does your agent say and think, please?

 

2. Did you contact David Wilden as I suggested? If so, did he get back to you? If he did, what did he say, please?

 

I think it is absolutely MONSTROUS that DIAC have not seen fit to appoint a very senior DIAC Officer for somebody in your shoes to contact. Really appalling and in your shoes, I would be thinking of grabbing DIAC's attention to this problem via some column inches in the Australian Press, frankly. They respond to bad press as if it were greased lightning in my observation.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[dasalcedo]

Hi Daniel

 

I am 99% sure that the MIA are correct and that your visa application would not be Capped & Killed.

 

However, if DIAC are going to take forever about processing the application, avoiding using the Cap & Kill procedure really doesn't get you very far, it seems to me.

 

1. What does your agent say and think, please?

 

2. Did you contact David Wilden as I suggested? If so, did he get back to you? If he did, what did he say, please?

 

I think it is absolutely MONSTROUS that DIAC have not seen fit to appoint a very senior DIAC Officer for somebody in your shoes to contact. Really appalling and in your shoes, I would be thinking of grabbing DIAC's attention to this problem via some column inches in the Australian Press, frankly. They respond to bad press as if it were greased lightning in my observation.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

Hi Gill,

 

 

1. My agent just told me to wait until things get more clear.... he just accept what DIAC says.

 

2. No, I haven't written to David Wilden as I was waiting for the action of my agent first. I'm going to write him by the end of this week.

 

Thank you Gill

[Guest apples]

Hi dasalcedo & gollywobbler

As far as my understanding was capping & ceasing would not be inforced on applicants who are currently in australia & since they have alreday setup there life there, though they were pre sept 2007 applicants,so I wonder how you have got this PLE reply from diac .And also can anyone clear me whether the capping & ceasing will be implemented only on those applicants with 100 points,from where can we find this information ,Iam more in dillemma as iam a pre sept 2007 applicant with 120 points ,my occupation is IT with 60 points,my agent tells me not to worry as iam a professional,

Can anybody here through some light.

[virtual_bajwa]

can somebody tell me when will diac start cap and cease ?for god say please tell me the source of information, when will they start processing category 6 applicants... I am pi****d now.........

[Guest Jane1991]

Nobody knows Mr.Bawja.Its pure speculation about date till DIAC announces it.

[Guest bilaln30]

Hi Gill & others,

I am new to this "Cap & Cease policy". I have a question related to my Sister in Law.

She is Relative sponsored (brother) & pre Sep 2007 applicant. Her Occupation Code is 50 points "GRAPHIC DESIGNER" (ASCO 2533-13). Probably she had more then 100 points when she applied back in 2007.

 

IS SHE GOING TO BE CAPPED & CEASED?

 

NSW is sponsoring Graphic Designers, Can she apply for State sponsorship now?

 

I would be very grateful for anybody's help.

 

Regards,

Bilal

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi dasalcedo & gollywobbler

As far as my understanding was capping & ceasing would not be inforced on applicants who are currently in australia & since they have alreday setup there life there, though they were pre sept 2007 applicants,so I wonder how you have got this PLE reply from diac .And also can anyone clear me whether the capping & ceasing will be implemented only on those applicants with 100 points,from where can we find this information ,Iam more in dillemma as iam a pre sept 2007 applicant with 120 points ,my occupation is IT with 60 points,my agent tells me not to worry as iam a professional,

Can anybody here through some light.

 

Hi apples

 

You are correct that according to the MIA, the Minister has climbed down and has decided not to use the Cap & Cease power were the visa applicant is living in Australia.

 

If your agent thinks that your application will not be Capped and Ceased because you are "a professional" then your agent either has access to better sources of information than I have or your agent is guessing, one of the two.

 

Have you asked your agent which of the possibilities above might apply in your own case?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[virtual_bajwa]

Hi apples

 

You are correct that according to the MIA, the Minister has climbed down and has decided not to use the Cap & Cease power were the visa applicant is living in Australia.

 

If your agent thinks that your application will not be Capped and Ceased because you are "a professional" then your agent either has access to better sources of information than I have or your agent is guessing, one of the two.

 

Have you asked your agent which of the possibilities above might apply in your own case?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

Hey Gilly and all,

Today it has been two months since they put something about capping and Ceasing in front of public but no news after that . Ever since DIAC keeps on talking about implementing it but nothing till date.

 

Hey Gill, Even my agent is also talking to me on the fact that if you have good English and good scores then you will be spare from cap and cease.So wait and watch. Anything can come from DIAC.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi VB

 

The Minister announced the Cap & Cease on 8th February 2010 - two months ago now.

 

Ten days later, George Lombard told us this:

 

Latest news from the Migration Institute of Australia confirms several important issues for new General Skilled Migration applicants. The news has been issued with an injunction forbidding electronic copying without consent, but these are the headlines for offshore applicants:

 

........

 

2. DIAC and the Minister will most likely undertake the capping and ceasing of Pre 1 September 2007 Offshore Applications in March; DIAC is able to extend some clemency to people in this category who are actually in Australia, for example as holders of student visas or subclass 457 visas and have well established links in the Australia community. Anyone likely to be in this situation should be contacting DIAC immediately.

 

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/78424-thread-agents-only-re-new-gsm-changes-3.html

 

On 4th March, George went to the first MIA/DIAC Seminar about the GSM visa program, held in Sydney. George said:

 

1. There is no hope that the government will reconsider the cap and cease decision for the applications lodged prior to 1 September 2007. If there are still some such people in Australia or who have paid the second instalment of their Visa Application Charge in lieu of a secondary applicant meeting English requirements, then those people should contact the Department - either the ASPC or Canberra - immediately, since the mechanics of the cap and cease decision are about to be implemented. All affected applicants overseas ought to confirm their current address to the Department, since the fear is that a lot of offshore "agents" will be trying to intercept these fees. One of the Departmental staff made the following statement "the Minister and the Department recognise that there will be applicants who are not happy with the cap and cease provisions". For those of you who have never been to Canberra, this translates as "let them eat cake".

 

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/78424-thread-agents-only-re-new-gsm-changes-4.html

 

A month has elapsed since DIAC said they were about to start capping & ceasing imminently. I wonder what their definition of "imminent" is?

 

The day after the 4th March Seminar, George added:

 

One very interesting outcome is that the Department is now saying that there were fewer than 20,000 applicants affected, and suggested, or allowed the implication, that it might only be 6,000 applications. The explanation given was that the proposal to cap and kill was first raised in September last year and the numbers had been reduced by the date of decision. My guess is, if that is true, that there must have been an orgy of last minute refusals to minimise the problem. Sadly, the Department is now suggesting informally that the cap and kill caseload are all tradespeople with credibility problems. This is disingenuous. Yes there would be bad apples but there are a lot of people whose applications were perfectly valid. Integrity issues become a bit self-fulfilling after a while, it would be nice if the Auditor-General or Ombudsman were to work through the "6,000" and give an independent summary.

 

 

 

Alan Collett of Go Matilda then attended the Seminar that the MIA/DIAC held jointly in Melbourne on 10th March 2010. Alan Collett said:

 

- Cap and cease: applications were lodged under the less rigorous pre-01/09/2007 regime; DIAC endeavoring to finalise as many as possible at the moment/

 

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/78424-thread-agents-only-re-new-gsm-changes-5.html

 

Please read the whole of the thread above, VB, because there are some more comments about cap & cease that I have not included in this post to you.

 

VB - taking everything above, do you think that DIAC are stalling the Minister about implementing the Cap & Kill because it has occurred to DIAC that implementing such a crude, blunt, cosh of an idea would actually hurt a lot of people whom DIAC and the Minister have no wish to hurt but whose appllcations are simply being held up because of ASIO and the like?

 

I'd be interested to know what you think about this.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[virtual_bajwa]

Hi VB

 

The Minister announced the Cap & Cease on 8th February 2010 - two months ago now.

 

Ten days later, George Lombard told us this:

 

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/78424-thread-agents-only-re-new-gsm-changes-3.html

 

On 4th March, George went to the first MIA/DIAC Seminar about the GSM visa program, held in Sydney. George said:

 

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/78424-thread-agents-only-re-new-gsm-changes-4.html

 

A month has elapsed since DIAC said they were about to start capping & ceasing imminently. I wonder what their definition of "imminent" is?

 

The day after the 4th March Seminar, George added:

 

 

 

Alan Collett of Go Matilda then attended the Seminar that the MIA/DIAC held jointly in Melbourne on 10th March 2010. Alan Collett said:

 

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/78424-thread-agents-only-re-new-gsm-changes-5.html

 

Please read the whole of the thread above, VB, because there are some more comments about cap & cease that I have not included in this post to you.

 

VB - taking everything above, do you think that DIAC are stalling the Minister about implementing the Cap & Kill because it has occurred to DIAC that implementing such a crude, blunt, cosh of an idea would actually hurt a lot of people whom DIAC and the Minister have no wish to hurt but whose appllcations are simply being held up because of ASIO and the like?

 

I'd be interested to know what you think about this.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

Hey Gilly,

I love this forum that is why I always stay in touch with you guys. And I read each and every thread..

 

VB - taking everything above, do you think that DIAC are stalling the Minister about implementing the Cap & Kill because it has occurred to DIAC that implementing such a crude, blunt, cosh of an idea would actually hurt a lot of people whom DIAC and the Minister have no wish to hurt but whose appllcations are simply being held up because of ASIO and the like?

 

Well Gilly ,

This is too early to say something on this. But one thing is very sure that If they are waiting for CAP and CEASE to implement for two months then there is something which is knocking Minister's head. But be aware on one thing Minister must be working hard with his team of lawyer who must be molding the law in favor of implementing CAP and CEASE. So that is why they held up all the Pre - September applications till date. Yes , one thing is sure that people with low English level ( like some of the trade people) . less qualification,less experience must face some hurting hammer from DIAC...

Hope for the best for everyone who invested their time as well as money........

God bless all.....

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi VB

 

Thanks very much indeed for your prompt replies today.

 

I wonder. On the "Agents Only" thread there is a debate between Jamie Smith & George Lombard. They were discussing how the 20,000 applications - which is what the Minister and DIAC between them said on 8th Feb 2010 - could have become 6,000 applications etc.

 

The two guys were talking in that context. However Peter Speldewinde of DIAC had obviously told the people who attended the seminar that there is quite a lot that DIAC cannot tell unless they physically pick up the file and go through it.

 

Mmmmm. I am not sure but I think - think only - that making applications for skilled visas on-line only became possible when the current crop of visas were introduced on 1st September 2007. I have a feeling that they all had to be paper applications before that.

 

If I am right then I suspect that if they don't even know how many people are included in one of those old, paper files unless somebody picks up the file and goes through it then the chances are that they know next to nothing else about the application either. The ASPC don't even know whether the applicant is in Australia or not. The people such as Dasalcedo above have been told that they must contact either DIAC in Canberra or the ASPC.

 

If I am right then I would expect that the Minister is furious that the Department does not have the information that he needs. In fairness to the ASPC, not bothering to make an electronic record of the information in the paper files would not have mattered if the Minister had not decided to make several different changes of direction with the processing arrangements & priorities for GSM applications.

 

I wonder whether the DIAC officials are doing their best to talk the Minister out of the whole cap & cease idea now that he and they are both beginning to realise that the whole idea is much more complicated to do than they thought.....

 

Apart from anything else, they are expecting litigation over the use of Cap & Cease whatever happens. They have blocked the possibility - that some of the applicants would have had - of going to the Migration Review Tribunal. However they cannot stop people with a genuine grievance from going to the Court and complaining about the whole thing in Court instead.

 

If I were DIAC's Chief Solicitor - who is a lady called Robyn Bicket - I'd be asking the Minister to tell me how much money he thinks I should earmark for the Litigation budget. If they can't tell which applications can safely be trashed unless they pick up the file and read it, one or more of the solicitors in DIAC's legal team will have to pick up 6,000 files one by one, I suspect. (In practice the solicitors don't do it. It would be like a portfolio sale in England - you just hire a team of newly qualified barristers and make them do 98% of the work.)

 

I have a feeling that DIAC may be warning the Minister that they want to backtrack from the entire Cap & Cease idea because it is too expensive to do it properly and its is even more expensive - potentially - to risk not doing it properly.

 

As you say, it is too early to be sure but this on-going dalay looks suspicious to me and I am wondering where the hold-ups are with the whole idea.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[virtual_bajwa]

Hi VB

 

Thanks very much indeed for your prompt replies today.

 

I wonder. On the "Agents Only" thread there is some a debate between Jamie Smith & George Lombard. They were discussing how the 20,000 applications - which is what the Minister and DIAC between them said on 8th Feb 2010 - could have become 6,000 applications etc.

 

The two guys were talking in that context. However Peter Speldewinde of DIAC had obviously told the people who attended the seminar that there is quite a lot that DIAC cannot tell unless they physically pick up the file and go through it.

 

Mmmmm. I am not sure but I think - think only - that making applications for skilled visas on-line only became possible when the current crop of visas were introduced on 1st September 2007. I have a feeling that they all had to be paper applications before that.

 

If I am right then I suspect that if they don't even know how many people are included in one of those old, paper files unless somebody picks up the file and goes through it then the chances are that they know next to nothing else about the application either. The ASPC don't even know whether the applicant is in Australia or not. The people such as Dasalcedo above have been told that they must contact either DIAC in Canberra or the ASPC.

 

If I am right then I would expect that the Minister is furious that the Department does not have the information that he needs. In fairness to the ASPC, not bothering to make an electronic record of the information in the paper files would not have mattered if the Minister had not decided to make several different changes of direction with the processing arrangements & priorities for GSM applications.

 

I wonder whether the DIAC officials are doing their best to talk the Minister out of the whole cap & cease idea now that he and they are both beginning to realise that the whole idea is much more complicated to do than they thought.....

 

Apart from anything else, they are expecting litigation over the use of Cap & Cease whatever happens. They have blocked the possibility - that some of the applicants would have had - of going to the Migration Review Tribunal. However they cannot stop people with a genuine grievance from going to the Court and complaining about the whole thing in Court instead.

 

If I were DIAC's Chief Solicitor - who is a lady called Robyn Bicket - I'd be asking the Minister to tell me how much money he thinks I should earmark for the Litigation budget. If they can't tell which applications can safely be trashed unless they pick up the file and read it, one or more of the solicitors in DIAC's legal team will have to pick up 6,000 files one by one, I suspect. (In practice the solicitors don't do it. It would be like a portfolio sale in England - you just hire a team of newly qualified barristers and make them do 98% of the work.)

 

I have a feeling that DIAC may be warning the Minister that they want to backtrack from the entire Cap & Cease idea because it is too expensive to do it properly and its is even more expensive - potentially - to risk not doing it properly.

 

As you say, it is too early to be sure but this on-going dalay looks suspicious to me and I am wondering where the hold-ups are with the whole idea.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

Thanks Gilly,

If they are talking about the paper files..Let me tell you that paper files are treated as one of most authentic way one can choose and apply.

 

Yes, I fully agree with you that they have to put in lots and lots of man power to pick and read 6000( if the number is correct). Oh it's a very cumbersome job. And on the other hand they have to return billion of dollars money to Pre - September applicants. Adding this to the cost of manpower to do this work , it will cost whole lot of money to DIAC to clear the backlog of Pre September applicants.YEs some of the Pre - September applicants are very professional with good experience , Qualification and good English level. So DIAC would never want to loose those applicants.

So I would simply want that DIAC would start processing these applicants as soon as possible as these would create more and more problems in coming time....Do it in right way...GOOD LUCK TO DIAC.......

[Guest apples]

Hi Gill

Thank you for taking time to reply my post,My agent thinks that i wont be included in the cut & chop purely because he beleives that capping & ceasing might be imposed on Trade people whereas iam a Computer professional with a engineering degree (total120 points) ,but he is not 100% sure & dont want to give me any hopes ,But said that iam worried since i know that most of the tradepeoples are in MODL which is under another priority group 6 whereas i come under priority group 7.Also in my point of view i think they cant cease the sponsored applicants also priority group 6(ii) ,since they have someone to support them financially even if those applicants could not find a job .So the affected people is going to be applicants like me who are in the last queue.However i think they cant practically implement cap& cease now, as they me be short of visa's for the huge pre september 2007 backlog,they may implement only after the new finacial year.These are only my views.I appreciate if u could give me your valuable suggestions on regard of my views.

 

Thanks

apples

[rahulpatel1969]

Guys (Gilly and VB)

 

I do not agree with your post. I do not think DIAC will back track because the minister is to stuborn and obstinate to allow them to do so. I just think they are putting in some planning on how to pull the flush on all these applications. Filing cases in court is going to be the only option left. They know it and are preparing for it.

 

Rahul

[Welshtone]

The only way an applicant can be spared the cap and cease for a visa class that is going to be capped and cveased, is if the visa is gramted before the cap and cease is effected. So unless DIAC have contacted you to update or to go for health and character checks recently, there is not much hope. If you have already done health and character within the last 18 months, there is some hope. The 496 class/subclass also have some hope as they cannot be capped and ceased without a change in the 496 regulations - if DIAC decide to change the regulations for such a small number of applicants, it may only be a stay in execution for the 496 applicants. I don't expect the cap and cease to be efected too soon as it will take time for DIAC to grant those cases that they think are sensitive enough to warrant grant before the cap and cease. Those that qualify for any of the current visas, should consider applying ahead of any cap and cease decision as they may not have eligibility when the new SOL comes in.

 

Regards

 

 

Tony

[rahulpatel1969]

Tony

 

My question is that since all of these appications were legally valid at the time of application according to rules present at that time dont u think there is an option to file for relief from Australian courts. Whatever DIAC legislation there are certain principles of justice that apply?

 

I think these applications would have a very strong case in any cour of law.

 

What do u think.

 

Rahul

[Welshtone]

Hi Rahul

 

I am not a lawyer - the power to cap and cease is currently there except for 496 subclass - any court action may be in terms of out of pocket expenses. Relief in resurrecting the visa is unlikely, despite it being Easter, unless they cap the 496 without first changing the regulations.

 

Regards

 

 

Tony

[Guest apples]

I agree with rahul,we all applied with faith that our visa will be granted , as we had met our visa requirement at the time of lodgement .also we had been asked to do medical/police clearance ,so its not easy for diac to refuse the applications just like that,may be they are now preparing themselves for how they can respond to those legal issues that may arise from applicants who had been affected after cap & cease implementation.Surely the minister will not change his mind in implementing cap & cease.But do anyone know or have any idea of how many such pre september applicants are currently pending.we can categorize those applicants who already have a CO & not having a Case officer.I think its not very difficult thing to upload the data of all those paper based applications to the DIAC system,it can be easily done by a data entry operator.Then they can easily segregate each applicants status.However this waiting is still killing me ,Comeon why cant they say yes u will be granted or not granted without wasting any of our patience & time.Iam really frustrated.

[virtual_bajwa]

Hi Rahul

 

I am not a lawyer - the power to cap and cease is currently there except for 496 subclass - any court action may be in terms of out of pocket expenses. Relief in resurrecting the visa is unlikely, despite it being Easter, unless they cap the 496 without first changing the regulations.

 

Regards

Tony

 

Hey guys,

Nobody knows what is going on in Minister's mind.Yes, taking such a big decision is not one man's cup of tea. There is a team behind such a big decision. So there must be team of people(like some Sr. MARA agents, Some senior DIAC employees). And most importantly the council of Minister and Opposition. So we can not give this credit to only to Minister.So man people are involved in this.

 

So, please guys I am waiting for something to happen ,does not matter whosoever do this.